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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (4 Viewers)

John Blutarsky said:
He may not be telling the truth. He wasn't honest about contact with the WBer before the complaint was filed.
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Consider the opposite - what if Schiff would have leaked the information through the press? Or if WBer had leaked documentation such as Snowden & Manning? Would these paths have been preferable to you?

 
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if i receive an anonymous tip that Jimmy Hoffa is buried in Trump's back yard, and i find his body in Trump's back yard, the really important thing is who gave me the tip, right?

 
timschochet said:
Sondland must have done it on his own? 
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No. Zekensky’s aide pinged Sondland in order to contact Rudy after Parnas & Fruman approached Zelensky’s office and told them go through Rudy - their lawyer and the President’s- if they wanted their aid. Sondland also testified that Trump personally directed him to go through Giuliani.

 
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joffer said:
if i receive an anonymous tip that Jimmy Hoffa is buried in Trump's back yard, and i find his body in Trump's back yard, the really important thing is who gave me the tip, right?
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I think tip giver would be relevant if some question as to how the body got there, etc.  But I'd be less interested in the tip giver if next to Jimmy Hoffa's body, there was a videotape of Trump bragging to Billy Bush about how he killed Jimmy Hoffa and buried his body in back yard.

 
joffer said:
if i receive an anonymous tip that Jimmy Hoffa is buried in Trump's back yard, and i find his body in Trump's back yard, the really important thing is who gave me the tip, right?
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Seems to be the GOP argument I keep hearing.   

 
Sinn Fein said:
uh, oh . :oldunsure:

Sondland Updates Impeachment Testimony, Describing Ukraine Quid Pro Quo

In a substantial update to his initial account, Gordon D. Sondland recounted how he told Ukrainian officials military aid was tied to their commitment to investigations President Trump wanted.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/05/us/politics/impeachment-trump.html
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Which is why McConnell and gang are switching from there isn't a quid to of course there was but nothing wrong with that. 

 
Sinn Fein said:
In his updated testimony, Mr. Sondland recounted how he had discussed the linkage with Andriy Yermak, a top adviser to President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine, on the sidelines of a Sept. 1 meeting between Vice President Mike Pence and Mr. Zelensky in Warsaw. Mr. Zelensky had discussed the suspension of aid with Mr. Pence, Mr. Sondland said.

“I said that resumption of the U.S. aid would likely not occur until Ukraine provided the public anticorruption statement that we had been discussing for many weeks,” Mr. Sondland said in the document, which was released by the House committees leading the inquiry, along with the transcript of his original testimony from last month.

Mr. Pence to the white courtesy phone, Mr. Pence, to the white courtesy phone please.
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READ THE TRAAAAAANSCRIPT!!!!!!!!!

 
Jackstraw said:
President Pelosi has a nice ring to it. 
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Won’t happen. I’m actually hoping that Pence isn’t tied too much into it. If it Pence goes down with Trump, Trump isn’t going down. There’s a slim (but increasing) chance that they could remove Trump. There’s no chance that GOP members will hand the presidency to Nancy.

 
JuniorNB said:
Today's Republicans would have taken the security guard who discovered the Watergate burglary and ruined his life.

-Jeff Tiedrich
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"I heard he voted for McCarthy in 1968 so clearly the burglary at the Watergate didn't happen"

I still love the "well it failed so no harm no foul" excuse.  Really that is the standard for illegal acts now.  

 
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hammerva said:
"I heard he voted for McCarthy in 1968 so clearly the burglary at the Watergate didn't happen"

I still love the "well it failed so no harm no foul" excuse.  Really that is the standard for illegal acts now.  
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I bet all those guys Chris Hansen busted when they were trying to get with little kids will be relieved to find out they're in the clear too. 

 
Jackstraw said:
President Pelosi has a nice ring to it. 
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If both Trump and Pence go down and are removed, does that happen?

:shudders:

Still, even at that high price, removal still needs to happen. At least she'll put the country before her personal agendas, or at least try to do it that way.

 
Although, I also think Pence would put country first too. I strongly dislike him as well. Unsure if I dislike him or Pelosi more, and I dislike them both for completely different reasons.

 
Biff84 said:
Won’t happen. I’m actually hoping that Pence isn’t tied too much into it. If it Pence goes down with Trump, Trump isn’t going down. There’s a slim (but increasing) chance that they could remove Trump. There’s no chance that GOP members will hand the presidency to Nancy.
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If the GOP was suddenly filled with a patriotic zeal to actually put country over party and it looked like Trump and Pence would both have to go, I'm sure they'd learn from Watergate. Pence would step down and be replaced by McConnell before Trump goes down. 

 
apalmer said:
And if he met with him, told him he needed to file a WB complaint, and told him how to do it, so what? What does that have to do with the facts corroborated by numerous witnesses?

Try this: The police dept. gets a phone call: "Hello, police, i was just told be a friend who works at a bank that his boss is stealing money from customers' accounts. What should I do?"*

Police: "What's your name, sir?"*

Caller: "I don't want to tell you that. Can't I tell you what I heard without that?"*

Police: "Ok, tell us the name of your friend, what bank is involved, who the boss is, and anything else you know."*

Caller: "OK, here goes.....(detailed summary given)"* 

The police investigate, talk to the friend who confirms the facts, subpoena bank records, match up missing money with deposits into bank manager's personal account. When they show up to arrest the bank manager, he demands "Tell me who the anonymous caller was. I think he's someone who doesn't like me." *

Do you really believe the charges can't proceed if the police don't identify the caller?

*Disclaimer: All quotes are fictitious.
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And, at trial, somebody like me may very well be precluded from talking about the original informant...

 
This is a weird thing to say if Trump is innocent:

Jordan Fabian@Jordanfabian · 14m.

@PressSec says Sondland and Volker transcripts "show there is even less evidence for this illegitimate impeachment sham than previously thought. "

How much evidence did they think was out there?  :oldunsure:

 
Not a day goes by when Trump isn't on our national consciousness, and almost never in a good way.

Man, we need to clean house starting at the top.  Get some good people in office and put folks around them who will stand up for their values, but will be willing to compromise and move things forward.

We've fallen a long way as a nation to where any of this could be normal.

 
Biff84 said:
Won’t happen. I’m actually hoping that Pence isn’t tied too much into it. If it Pence goes down with Trump, Trump isn’t going down. There’s a slim (but increasing) chance that they could remove Trump. There’s no chance that GOP members will hand the presidency to Nancy.
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I agree with you that in their mind corruption and all that is better. But the electoral cost will be......staggering.  

 
adonis said:
Not a day goes by when Trump isn't on our national consciousness, and almost never in a good way.

Man, we need to clean house starting at the top.  Get some good people in office and put folks around them who will stand up for their values, but will be willing to compromise and move things forward.

We've fallen a long way as a nation to where any of this could be normal.
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I hope the next Democratic President includes some of the more upstanding Republicans in his/her administration.  That could go a long way.  Probably the most important thing our next President can do.  

 
toshiba said:

To be fair the order of the removals matter as well as how long between them.
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If necessary, Pence will resign so that the Senate can confirm a new VP before the impeachment trial. But I doubt that things will get that far because both Pence and Trump know that the Senate will protect them both.
 
squistion said:
Leader Schumer:

"There should be bipartisan outrage at the public attempts by the president and a member of this body to expose the identity of a federal whistleblower."

CSPAN (video clip at link)

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1191821269961969670

Yeah, I don't get the GOP silence on this either. :shrug:
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So far Mitt Romney is the only one to speak out. He said that if the whistleblower's name is released it would be "unfortunate."

 
timschochet said:
Sondland must have done it on his own? 
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Umm when I wrote this a couple of hours ago, it was supposed to be a joke. But sure enough, the White House is using this argument. They just issued a statement that Sondland must have presumed it was a quid pro quo without being told, and that he presumed wrong.

 
Koya said:
Simple question:

Why are you (and others who share your sentiments are encouraged to answer as well) so focused on the whistleblower, who merely alerted authorities that something might be amiss, rather than being concerned whether or not there was actually something amiss?

If the whistleblower is biased and set a false alarm, then an investigation should demonstrate that and then go after the whistleblower, Schiff, whomever was involved. But for now, someone pulled the fire alarm - shouldn't we be focused on whether or not there is a fire. If there is, let's put it out, if not, let's look to who pulled the false alarm.
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@John Blutarsky - perhaps you missed this as I saw a few folks had engaged with you in the thread, but would truly like to hear your response.

thanks.

 
timschochet said:
So far Mitt Romney is the only one to speak out. He said that if the whistleblower's name is released it would be "unfortunate."
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Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) said Monday that it is up to the whistleblower at the center of the impeachment inquiry to decide whether or not to come forward after President Trump urged the media to reveal the individual's identity.

"That's strictly up to the whistleblower," Grassley told reporters.

When asked if Trump's remarks on Sunday were appropriate, the Iowa Republican demurred.

"All I want to do is make sure the law is followed," he said. "A person like me that has advocated for whistleblowers for a long period of time, including this whistleblower, I want maximum protection for whistleblowers."

 
Kathryn Watson
@kathrynw5
Lindsey Graham, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, says he won't read any of the transcripts, and dismissed Sondland's reversal. 

"I've written the whole process off ... I think this is a bunch of B.S." 

Per @alanhe

ETA: Graham on 9/25.

 
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Jackstraw said:
I agree with you that in their mind corruption and all that is better. But the electoral cost will be......staggering.  
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The way things stand with the likely outcome being impeachment without removal, the campaign commercials will write themselves. Imagine if after the OJ Simpson verdict there was a way for the American public to express their outrage. Less than a year after a Senate trial there will be an election for Trump and many of jurors including McConnell. It won’t take much to motivate Democrats and Independents to voice their displeasure at the voters box. 

 
beef said:
Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) said Monday that it is up to the whistleblower at the center of the impeachment inquiry to decide whether or not to come forward after President Trump urged the media to reveal the individual's identity.

"That's strictly up to the whistleblower," Grassley told reporters.

When asked if Trump's remarks on Sunday were appropriate, the Iowa Republican demurred.

"All I want to do is make sure the law is followed," he said. "A person like me that has advocated for whistleblowers for a long period of time, including this whistleblower, I want maximum protection for whistleblowers."
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Finally SOME one with gumption. It’s worse than cowardice for those who remain silent, it’s worse than an abdication of responsibility. It’s straight forward wrong and dangerous. To the whistleblower, those close to him, and to the very concepts of protecting those who take a stand against corruption, malfeasance and wrongdoing in government and outside of it.

 
Don Quixote said:
Kathryn Watson
@kathrynw5
Lindsey Graham, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, says he won't read any of the transcripts, and dismissed Sondland's reversal. 

"I've written the whole process off ... I think this is a bunch of B.S." 

Per @alanhe

ETA: Graham on 9/25.
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Ah, the old "the Democrats need to release all the testimony publicly so we can all see it--I'm not reading it"* approach.

*Disclaimer: Not an actual quote.

ETA: Above I speculated that Pence could resign and be replaced with McConnell before Trump is booted to avoid a Pelosi presidency. Looks like Graham is making his run for the appointment instead.

 
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Don Quixote said:
Kathryn Watson
@kathrynw5
Lindsey Graham, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, says he won't read any of the transcripts, and dismissed Sondland's reversal. 

"I've written the whole process off ... I think this is a bunch of B.S." 

Per @alanhe

ETA: Graham on 9/25.
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So nice to see that Lindsey is continuing to keep an open mind...

 
timschochet said:
Umm when I wrote this a couple of hours ago, it was supposed to be a joke. But sure enough, the White House is using this argument. They just issued a statement that Sondland must have presumed it was a quid pro quo without being told, and that he presumed wrong.
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Maybe because Sondland himself said he presumed it.

Sondland said that in “the beginning of September 2019, and in the absence of any credible explanation for the suspension of [hundreds of millions of dollars of military] aid, I presumed that the aid suspension had become linked to the proposed anti-corruption statement” that the Trump team asked Ukraine to make about the investigations. He added that “it would have been natural for me to have voiced what I had presumed to Ambassador Taylor, Senator Johnson, the Ukrainians and Mr. Morrison.”

Sondland also says, as Taylor and Morrison testified, that he told a top Ukrainian official that the “resumption of U.S. aid would likely not occur until Ukraine provided the public anti-corruption statement that we had been discussing for many weeks.”

Importantly, though — and this is key — Sondland doesn’t say this directive came from Trump. He instead says he was acting on his presumption. That could provide Trump a layer of insulation.
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Biff84 said:
The way things stand with the likely outcome being impeachment without removal, the campaign commercials will write themselves. Imagine if after the OJ Simpson verdict there was a way for the American public to express their outrage. Less than a year after a Senate trial there will be an election for Trump and many of jurors including McConnell. It won’t take much to motivate Democrats and Independents to voice their displeasure at the voters box. 
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Lindsey Graham, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, says he won't read any of the transcripts, and dismissed Sondland's reversal. "I've written the whole process off ... I think this is a bunch of B.S."

First commercial. By the way this is CRAY CRAY. 

What in the world do they have on Lindsey? 

 
Jackstraw said:
Lindsey Graham, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, says he won't read any of the transcripts, and dismissed Sondland's reversal. "I've written the whole process off ... I think this is a bunch of B.S."

First commercial. By the way this is CRAY CRAY. 

What in the world do they have on Lindsey? 
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And here I thought the new trump rally cry was "Read the Transcript".  

 
Jackstraw said:
Lindsey Graham, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, says he won't read any of the transcripts, and dismissed Sondland's reversal. "I've written the whole process off ... I think this is a bunch of B.S."

First commercial. By the way this is CRAY CRAY. 

What in the world do they have on Lindsey? 
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Just in case Pence gets thrown under the bus, Lindsey wants it known that he's entirely loyal to the President and willing to accept an appointment as VP before any impeachment and removal.

 
Jackstraw said:
Lindsey Graham, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, says he won't read any of the transcripts, and dismissed Sondland's reversal. "I've written the whole process off ... I think this is a bunch of B.S."

First commercial. By the way this is CRAY CRAY. 

What in the world do they have on Lindsey? 
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Perhaps his words can be taken at face value?

 
jamny said:
Maybe because Sondland himself said he presumed it.
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Oh come on, you can’t actually believe that! He’s playing both sides, trying to not be convicted for lying and also not directly implicating Trump until he has to. He talked directly to Trump when the QPQ was called out in the texts and you think he didn’t talk to Trump about this?

 
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