apalmer
Footballguy
Any response to any of his questions about the impropriety of any of Trump's actions should begin, "Well, it's not as bad as turning a blind eye to the actions of a pervert in a shower room, but...."
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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter snitwitch
- Start date
ATLANTA — John R. Bolton, President Trump’s former national security adviser, has knowledge of “many relevant meetings and conversations” connected to the Ukraine pressure campaign that House impeachment investigators do not yet know about, his lawyer told lawmakers on Friday.
The lawyer, Charles J. Cooper, made that tantalizing point in a letter to the chief House lawyer in response to House committee chairmen who have sought Mr. Bolton’s testimony in their impeachment proceedings but expressed unwillingness to go to court to get an order compelling it.
Mr. Cooper did not elaborate on what meetings and conversations he was referring to, leaving it to House Democrats to guess at what he might know.
Mr. Bolton did not show up for a deposition scheduled on Thursday because, his lawyer said, he wants a judge to determine whether he or his former deputy, Charles M. Kupperman, should testify in defiance of the White House. In effect, Mr. Bolton and Mr. Kupperman are asking for a court ruling on competing demands by the executive branch, which does not want them to testify, and the legislative branch, which does.
The House chairmen have withdrawn a subpoena for Mr. Kupperman and indicated they would not seek one for Mr. Bolton because they said they did not want to get dragged into lengthy court proceedings. Instead, Democrats have suggested that they may cite the refusal to testify by Mr. Bolton and Mr. Kupperman as evidence of obstruction of Congress by the president, which could form its own article of impeachment.
In representing Mr. Bolton and Mr. Kupperman, Mr. Cooper denied that they were trying to delay proceedings and insisted that their legal position was not coordinated with the White House. Mr. Cooper argued that if the House was serious about an inquiry, then Mr. Bolton would be a logical person to question.
Mr. Bolton “was personally involved in many of the events, meetings, and conversations about which you have already received testimony, as well as many relevant meetings and conversations that have not yet been discussed in the testimonies thus far,” Mr. Cooper wrote in the letter.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/08/us/politics/john-bolton-ukraine.html
The lawyer, Charles J. Cooper, made that tantalizing point in a letter to the chief House lawyer in response to House committee chairmen who have sought Mr. Bolton’s testimony in their impeachment proceedings but expressed unwillingness to go to court to get an order compelling it.
Mr. Cooper did not elaborate on what meetings and conversations he was referring to, leaving it to House Democrats to guess at what he might know.
Mr. Bolton did not show up for a deposition scheduled on Thursday because, his lawyer said, he wants a judge to determine whether he or his former deputy, Charles M. Kupperman, should testify in defiance of the White House. In effect, Mr. Bolton and Mr. Kupperman are asking for a court ruling on competing demands by the executive branch, which does not want them to testify, and the legislative branch, which does.
The House chairmen have withdrawn a subpoena for Mr. Kupperman and indicated they would not seek one for Mr. Bolton because they said they did not want to get dragged into lengthy court proceedings. Instead, Democrats have suggested that they may cite the refusal to testify by Mr. Bolton and Mr. Kupperman as evidence of obstruction of Congress by the president, which could form its own article of impeachment.
In representing Mr. Bolton and Mr. Kupperman, Mr. Cooper denied that they were trying to delay proceedings and insisted that their legal position was not coordinated with the White House. Mr. Cooper argued that if the House was serious about an inquiry, then Mr. Bolton would be a logical person to question.
Mr. Bolton “was personally involved in many of the events, meetings, and conversations about which you have already received testimony, as well as many relevant meetings and conversations that have not yet been discussed in the testimonies thus far,” Mr. Cooper wrote in the letter.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/08/us/politics/john-bolton-ukraine.html
TheMagus
Footballguy
Don Quixote
Footballguy
Reminds me of when my sister found out that one of her friends had a crush on me, but could not tell me who because it was a secret.*
*No basis in reality. No one ever had a crush on me.
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Henry Ford
Footballguy
parrot
Footballguy
How about since Russia actively interfered in our elections on Trump's behalf and the whole world became aware of it? Not a great look, even for Donny.
Honestly hearing this I can only think that either Trump is somehow even dumber than I thought he was, or the pee tape is real. Probably both.
timschochet
Footballguy
They can’t wait. Judge to hear testimony December 6, then make ruling what, weeks later? Even December 6 is too long.
If Bolton wants to be the big star of this show he needs to agree to testify NOW. Otherwise nobody is going to care about what he has to say.
timschochet
Footballguy
No it’s about persuading the masses.
The GOP needs to persuade the general public that the question of wrongdoing here is at the very least open ended, that its possible Trump did nothing wrong. If they can’t do that they’re in serious trouble in 2020 IMHO. An aggressive Jordan yelling about process and asking silly conspiracy questions about Biden will only make things worse for Trump.
timschochet
Footballguy
For example Jordan has already been attacking Vindman, an decorated army guy. One of the things that brought down Joseph McCarthy was the fact that he went after the US Army. It was one thing for Joe to go after the Hollywood left and the State Department and imply they were all communists; a lot of America can accept that argument and even want to believe it. But when you attack our military, heaven help you.
adonis
Footballguy
Don Quixote
Footballguy
There was an article yesterday that he was concerned about whether people will keep contributing to his Super PAC if he testified. So, if he has a court order, he can hide behind the court order and say he was just following the court instead of ignoring the WH.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Does it? I've learned that the only safe assumption on my part is that I might be missing something. I have countless encounters where people say one thing only to turn around and say that's not what they meant. So I figure it's always best to ask. Though I will say, most of the time I don't get a response to my question, so at that point I just assume its
and move on anyway.
The Commish
Footballguy
It's strange to me only in the sense that the GOP needs the most reputable on this particular inquiry and they seem to be going the opposite direction. Wait until people who have never heard of him start googling him and see the mess he is wrapped up in at OSU.
It's painfully obvious WHY they moved him....they need/want an attack dog...it's purely for the base which is baffling. The base is there....they don't need to worry about the base....they aren't going anywhere.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Bolton seems like the type of guy would love to testify to the whole world in dramatic fashion that he was right and the guy who fired him was wrong.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
That’s why he needs the court order. If he was going to hem and haw and assert privilege he wouldn’t.
munga30
Checkin' my email
My guess is that Bolton's stance is largely principled. The Courts should get involved in exactly this type of dispute. The House Dems may not like their odds in a Supreme Court decision drawing lines between the branches, but it's the right thing to do. This is why the Garland gambit exists and that the Admin was willing to go to the mat for Kavvy (the Kav-ster, Kavarino).
One strategic aspect could be Bolton's attorney overstating the relevance of what he'll testify to for enticing the House Dems into Court. But that seems so very very unlikely to be the case given even a conservative estimate of what he's witnessed. More a question of how far he'll go.
One strategic aspect could be Bolton's attorney overstating the relevance of what he'll testify to for enticing the House Dems into Court. But that seems so very very unlikely to be the case given even a conservative estimate of what he's witnessed. More a question of how far he'll go.
squistion
Footballguy
Adam Schiff @RepAdamSchiff 1h1 hour ago
First, Republicans objected to private depositions, even though almost fifty of their members could attend.
Now, they don’t want public hearings.
The only consistency—
They don’t want the American people to learn the truth about the President’s serious misconduct.
First, Republicans objected to private depositions, even though almost fifty of their members could attend.
Now, they don’t want public hearings.
The only consistency—
They don’t want the American people to learn the truth about the President’s serious misconduct.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
I keep saying, if there's nothing to hide, put everything on the table. I know Trump and the democrats hate each other, but if they hated him that badly, they wouldn't have waited almost 3 years into his term to try and do something about it. Literally all the Republicans have to do is present evidence that exonerates Trump. Surely they could have found something to do just that by now, couldn't they? Unless that evidence doesn't exist, of course.
Also, pro tip: character assassination isn't helping you.
John Blutarsky
Footballguy
Republicans talked about it with Obama, Dems did it with W too, big deal. Where's the evidence that Trump is innocent? The man puts practically everything on social media, surely it must be somewhere.
John Blutarsky
Footballguy
They didn't talk about it like what took place with Trump and it's not even close. I don't remember people talking about impeaching Obama and W the night they were elected.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Push back on the evidence and not the process. Let everyone testify who wants to. Release the original call transcript (the version currently hidden in a top secret server). He should defend himself against credible allegations.
Unless he can't.
Still happened, and I'm also waiting on that evidence. All of this could go away if the Republicans had any. Are they waiting until the actual trial, so they can pull a Matlock, and thereby save the day? Because that only happens in movies.
John Blutarsky
Footballguy
Could Trump be impeached shortly after he takes office?
It’s highly improbable, but everyone from law scholars to political junkies are speculating about it.
https://www.politico.eu/article/could-donald-trump-be-impeached-shortly-after-he-takes-office-us-presidential-election-2016-american-president-impeachment/
It’s highly improbable, but everyone from law scholars to political junkies are speculating about it.
https://www.politico.eu/article/could-donald-trump-be-impeached-shortly-after-he-takes-office-us-presidential-election-2016-american-president-impeachment/
timschochet
Footballguy
I’m not sure how this is relevant to the current situation. You don’t trust the motives of the Democrats; OK I get that. But in the end either there is evidence that Trump committed a high crime, in which case he should be impeached, or there isn’t.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
"Some people wanted to impeach Trump in 2017, therefore he must be innocent in 2019" is a really weird talking point, bordering on nonsensical.
John Blutarsky
Footballguy
The whistleblowers attorney did say that the coup has started in 2017.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/coup-has-started-whistleblowers-attorney-said-in-2017-posts-calling-for-impeachment
The General
Footballguy
Trump was convinced Obama was a Kenyan spy and spent 6 years "investigating" so he probably wanted him impeached.
John Blutarsky
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
Trump birther + google.Really, I'd love to see a link about this so I can learn more.
ericttspikes
Footballguy
Speculating that when a crook runs for president that he might be impeached if elected. Weird.
And if there isn't, the Republicans should be creating literal mountains of evidence to support Trump and clear his name. The fact they have yet to do so is very telling.
That was in reference to Trump firing everyone that week. Anything relevant to the conversation is not found in the article.
dozer
Footballguy
Fiona Hill
Fiona Hill: "It is a fiction that the Ukrainian Government was launching an effort to upend our election, upend our election to mess with our Democratic systems."
Hill again: "If you're also trying to peddle an alternative variation of whether the Ukrainians subverted our election, I don't want to be part of that."
Edit: She is responding to Jim Jordan
Fiona Hill: "It is a fiction that the Ukrainian Government was launching an effort to upend our election, upend our election to mess with our Democratic systems."
Hill again: "If you're also trying to peddle an alternative variation of whether the Ukrainians subverted our election, I don't want to be part of that."
Edit: She is responding to Jim Jordan
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The General
Footballguy
Trump saying he hardly knows who Sondland is and that even if he did Sondland said the that the President didn't ask for a QPQ. So many lies 
Sondland gave Trump 1 million for his election. Trump selected Sondland to be the Ambassador the EU. Sondland said there was a QPQ after he "remembered" it after his initial testimony.
Sondland gave Trump 1 million for his election. Trump selected Sondland to be the Ambassador the EU. Sondland said there was a QPQ after he "remembered" it after his initial testimony.
apalmer
Footballguy
More Fake News from Fox News twisting a comment on Trump starting a coup of existing government employees. Like their President, all Fox News can rely on is lies and gullibility of the base.
timschochet
Footballguy
A bio of Lt. Colonel Vindman, decorated soldier whose patriotism has been questioned by Laura Ingraham and other right wing personalities, and whom the President has sneeringly dismisses, without any evidence, as a “Never Trumper”:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/4095387002
if there is one man who might destroy Donald Trump next week, this could be the guy.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/4095387002
if there is one man who might destroy Donald Trump next week, this could be the guy.
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There were reports that Bolton wouldn’t go quietly but he is also trying to run a GOP Super PAC. One theory might be he wants to testify and help bring Trump down but he wants to make it look like he only did it because he was forced. Enter his lawyers saying that he has a lot of new information to offer to try and compel the Democrats to fight harder in the courts or at least wait until December when the court rules.
joffer
Footballguy
beef
Footballguy
Crazy how he sells the ambassadorship to someone and doesn't know him. As soon as I hit the lotto, you're looking at the next Agriculture Undersecretary for Food or the new Ambassador to the Caribbean island of Alabama!Trump saying he hardly knows who Sondland is and that even if he did Sondland said the that the President didn't ask for a QPQ. So many lies
Sondland gave Trump 1 million for his election. Trump selected Sondland to be the Ambassador the EU. Sondland said there was a QPQ after he "remembered" it after his initial testimony.
Koya
Footballguy
To be fair, the man has made a lifetime perpetuating fraudulent business dealings (from Trump U to various real estate dealings), skirting if not breaking the law (multiple infractions RE: discriminatory business practices especially as a landlord) and peddling lies (well, it’s literally an everyday thing with him that hardly started when he became President) .
It wasn’t much of a jump to assume he’d continue that pattern in the whitehouse.
(Sadly, this is not snark. It’s the truth. Many of us wondered before day one how long it might be before he would overstep his legal bounds and whether he’d walk into being impeached).
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