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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter snitwitch
- Start date
The Commish
Footballguy
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Rush was downplaying it today. Must be legit.
Maybe Ukraine asked for Manafort and a coffee boy to be named later?mods, merge this with the russia thread please
snitwitch
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Keep in mind that the Trump administration has probably had a month's head-start on preparing for the story, so I expect the talking points to be out quickly - if not already.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Rudy on Cuomo blaming Hillary, Biden and Soros...
I think the cat is out of the bag right now - I would guess that the "sequence of events" all revolve around US aid to Ukraine in exchange for increased investigation into Biden's son. One of the aspects was the phone call by Trump, other aspects probably involve other members of the Trump Administration and their conversations.
Team Trump will (already are) claim that Trump wanted Ukraine to clean up it corruption problem - and if that happened to include Biden's son, well, thats just dumb luck - he should not have been involved, and if he is part of the fall-out, it can't be helped.
The whistleblower - and the Trump-=appointed Inspector General - saw it differently.
Going back and looking at reporting from the past week around the US aid release - this theory of Trump holding the aid as inducement for a political favor seems to have been an open secret - which suggests this report from the whistle-blower has been "known" by key people for at least a few weeks.
randall146
Footballguy
JbizzleMan
Footballguy
This seems really out of character for Trump. I'm not sure if I believe it.
Gopher State
Footballguy
Dems and Nancy want nothing to do with this.
All they have to do is concentrate on the election, then they took a look at the candidates. Maybe they are backed into a corner here.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Politifact article from May about the Bidens and Ukraine. Apparently this is what this all stems from.
Vice President Mike Pence was about to finish a routine joint press conference with Polish President Andrzej Duda in Warsaw last week, when he got two astutely specific questions about his meeting the previous day with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy:
“Number one, did you discuss Joe Biden at all during that meeting yesterday with the Ukrainian President? And number two, can you assure Ukraine that the hold-up of [U.S. security assistance] has absolutely nothing to do with efforts, including by Rudy Giuliani, to try to dig up dirt on the Biden family?” Associated Press reporter Jill Colvin asked.
Pence answered the first question directly: “Well, on the first question, the answer is no.” His response to the second question was more interesting. He essentially demurred.
***
With the drama over assistance to Ukraine unfolding alongside Trump and Giuliani’s months-long drumbeat for an investigation into Biden’s role there, the clear impression is that the United States is extorting a partner country for political gain.
Asked directly about such a scenario in Warsaw, Pence didn’t deny it. In fact, his wording could be seen as an implied confirmation.
After answering a simple “no” to the question of whether he and Zelenskyy discussed Biden, Pence continued, almost as a caveat to the denial and with repeated references back to Trump: “But we … discussed America’s support for Ukraine and the upcoming decision the president will make on the latest tranche of financial support in great detail. The president asked me to meet with President Zelenskyy and to talk about the progress that he’s making on a broad range of areas. And we did that.”
“The United States has stood strong with Ukraine and we will continue to stand strong with Ukraine for its sovereignty and territorial integrity,” Pence said. “But as President Trump had me make clear, we have great concerns about issues of corruption.”
https://www.justsecurity.org/66101/trump-and-giulianis-quest-for-fake-ukraine-dirt-on-biden-an-explainer/
“Number one, did you discuss Joe Biden at all during that meeting yesterday with the Ukrainian President? And number two, can you assure Ukraine that the hold-up of [U.S. security assistance] has absolutely nothing to do with efforts, including by Rudy Giuliani, to try to dig up dirt on the Biden family?” Associated Press reporter Jill Colvin asked.
Pence answered the first question directly: “Well, on the first question, the answer is no.” His response to the second question was more interesting. He essentially demurred.
***
With the drama over assistance to Ukraine unfolding alongside Trump and Giuliani’s months-long drumbeat for an investigation into Biden’s role there, the clear impression is that the United States is extorting a partner country for political gain.
Asked directly about such a scenario in Warsaw, Pence didn’t deny it. In fact, his wording could be seen as an implied confirmation.
After answering a simple “no” to the question of whether he and Zelenskyy discussed Biden, Pence continued, almost as a caveat to the denial and with repeated references back to Trump: “But we … discussed America’s support for Ukraine and the upcoming decision the president will make on the latest tranche of financial support in great detail. The president asked me to meet with President Zelenskyy and to talk about the progress that he’s making on a broad range of areas. And we did that.”
“The United States has stood strong with Ukraine and we will continue to stand strong with Ukraine for its sovereignty and territorial integrity,” Pence said. “But as President Trump had me make clear, we have great concerns about issues of corruption.”
https://www.justsecurity.org/66101/trump-and-giulianis-quest-for-fake-ukraine-dirt-on-biden-an-explainer/
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Fox was working hard this evening.Thunderlips said:
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I don't think I have the words.
The OLC memo preventing indictment of the president has hardly been discussed here or nationally.
Watergate has been reversed and in fact as a practical matter the DOJ has been converted into a blocking mechanism for effective investigation for the President.
And what happens is that people and institutions who play by the rules are stiffarmed. So here we go with the IG. It's the Kobiashi Maru. If the rules are crooked what do you do? The President was seeking to suppress the investigation(s) into him and Comey could go quietly and watch his memos go into the memory hole or he could recognize that the rules were created for normal presidents and ethical and empowered parties in Congress. Here the IC IG decided to stay within the rules - even as the new Dir DNI was breaking them.
The kicker? The DNI Coats was essentially an institutionalist - and so he was fired. So was his Dep DNI, Gordon, so she was fired.
The result? Trump tried to install Ratcliffe, an absolute blank slate of morality and knowledge. He was turned out so in came Maguire.
This discussion over Ukraine apparently happened right around Coats' firing and right after Mueller's testimony. Trump believes his own bs. He thought and thinks he is totally free to act, unencumbered by the law or history or tradition. He believes he is above the law - and as a practical matter - between the DOJ memo and the complete unwillingness of many House Democrats to accept their constitutional duties - he may very well be. Trump is embracing it and so are his followers. This is a constitutional crisis.
The OLC memo preventing indictment of the president has hardly been discussed here or nationally.
Watergate has been reversed and in fact as a practical matter the DOJ has been converted into a blocking mechanism for effective investigation for the President.
And what happens is that people and institutions who play by the rules are stiffarmed. So here we go with the IG. It's the Kobiashi Maru. If the rules are crooked what do you do? The President was seeking to suppress the investigation(s) into him and Comey could go quietly and watch his memos go into the memory hole or he could recognize that the rules were created for normal presidents and ethical and empowered parties in Congress. Here the IC IG decided to stay within the rules - even as the new Dir DNI was breaking them.
The kicker? The DNI Coats was essentially an institutionalist - and so he was fired. So was his Dep DNI, Gordon, so she was fired.
The result? Trump tried to install Ratcliffe, an absolute blank slate of morality and knowledge. He was turned out so in came Maguire.
This discussion over Ukraine apparently happened right around Coats' firing and right after Mueller's testimony. Trump believes his own bs. He thought and thinks he is totally free to act, unencumbered by the law or history or tradition. He believes he is above the law - and as a practical matter - between the DOJ memo and the complete unwillingness of many House Democrats to accept their constitutional duties - he may very well be. Trump is embracing it and so are his followers. This is a constitutional crisis.
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timschochet
Footballguy
Can’t be George. I’ve received no check and no instructions.Juxtatarot said:
badmojo1006
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I like how Rudy went on tv to deny and also to confirm the rumors. Shows a lot of moxie.
Best crisis manager in the business! He takes a crisis and manages to make it worse.
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snitwitch
Footballguy
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I was thinking the same thing!“So you did ask Ukraine to look into Joe Biden?” CNN’s Chris Cuomo asked Giuliani in an interview on Thursday evening.
“Of course I did,” Giuliani shot back.
Jack Nicholson could play Giuliani in the movie...
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
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Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I've been thinking about this. If Trump actually believed Biden was involved in a corruption scandal and it couldn't be shown Trump was withholding funds to Ukraine for political reelection reasons, doesn't he have an out? Doesn't intent matter?
The Commish
Footballguy
Probably my favorite two tweets from this dope...it's the perfect encapsulation of his knowledge and complete lack in self awareness. On top of all that, he spelled all the words correctly!
timschochet
Footballguy
As @Sinn Fein pointed out, everything depends on the phone call- IF there is a tape of the phone call, and IF Congress and the public get ahold of it. If there is no tape or if we never hear it, Trump will get away with this.
If they go to court to get the tape, it could take a year or longer. The White House will no doubt fight it all the way to the Supreme Court. Based on the unanimous decision against Nixon, Trump should lose this but you never know. In the meantime none of this is likely to be resolved prior to the election.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
No it isn't. The constitution has a well-defined procedure for dealing with a president who is guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors. Congress just refuses to do its job.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Constitutional crises arise from national constitution in any country being effectively neutralized. It’s a constitutional crisis for just that reason and really it’s been going on since Comey’s firing. The ineffectuality of the highest law is the point. You could rend it in two right now and it wouldn’t look any different.
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Insomniac
Footballguy
Even if there are tapes to prove this, the GOP base, donors, and elected leaders will accept any explanation used by his pathetic lackeys on TV. That's what happens in every case with Trumpists. I hope all the details come out and the info can be used to help defeat him in the 2020 election. Maybe the scandal and the blind GOP defense of Trump results in a resounding defeat for the GOP . Its more likely the right will tale up the Ni shagu nazad! tactic and use it to fire up their base.
Talking points have been distributed:
Jack Kingston
@JackKingston
”Whistleblower” a likely disgruntled #obama deep stater on his way out the door. #PresidentTrump like all Presidents can declassify anything he was to. https://foxnews.com/politics/whistleblower-complaint-reportedly-on-trump-contact-with-foreign-leader-touches-off-dc-firestorm…
Jack Kingston
@JackKingston
”Whistleblower” a likely disgruntled #obama deep stater on his way out the door. #PresidentTrump like all Presidents can declassify anything he was to. https://foxnews.com/politics/whistleblower-complaint-reportedly-on-trump-contact-with-foreign-leader-touches-off-dc-firestorm…
ClownCausedChaos2
Footballguy
The Auto Parts King?Sinn Fein said:
Sammy3469
Footballguy
He can do both if it’s for the benefit of the US, just not for his own personal benefit.
This x 1000
250 years since our forefathers founded this great country, with multiple amendments made along the way, and this lifelong criminal discovered that you could take over (while earning a minority of the votes) and then getting everyone in your party to be scared of your cult members, and hiring a co-conspirator and equally corrupt attorney general and make yourself beyond any rules or laws of the land. We all know that he's going to get away with this too. And not a single Trump supporter will have a problem with any of it.
He has made it painfully obvious that our system is terrible, but because one party is benefiting from all the corruption, there can never be a way to fix it. It is truly a frightening time to be an American.
timschochet
Footballguy
“Did he actually do it? He just threatened to do it as a way to improve deal terms. That’s perfectly justifiable, perfectly legal!”
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