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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (3 Viewers)

mcintyre1 said:
Unless I'm reading it wrong, doesn't the call open with Trump congratulating Zelensky for the wrong thing and Zelensky politely correcting him in his response? Trump clearly seems to think he's calling to congratulate Zelensky on winning the Presidency, but Zelensky then politely reminds him that he'd already done that before and he was now calling about Zelensky's party gaining control of their parliament.

I know we just take it for granted at this point, but how sad is it that Trump a) can't even remember why exactly he's talking to this person or b) seemingly that he already talked to him about the thing he thought he was going to talk to him about?
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He remembered why he was talking to this person.  To have him open an investigation into Joe Biden.

 
https://nypost.com/2019/09/24/goodwin-pelosis-impeachment-flip-flop-changes-everything/
 

Pelosi caved in because of the mounting pressure within her party and because the New York Times, the Washington Post and a handful of television gasbags demanded that she act over what the president reportedly said in the July conversation with Ukraine’s new president, Volodymyr Zelensky. Trump admits he asked Zelensky to investigate Joe Biden and his son, Hunter, over whether the then-vice president took any action to protect his son from a corruption probe.

Hunter Biden was being paid $50,000 a month by an energy company that was at one time the focus of a corruption inquiry. Reports have said Biden used his VP position to demand that the inquiry be dropped and the prosecutor involved fired, or America would withhold aid.

Ironically, a full examination of the facts could make Biden the first casualty of the impeachment jihad. He is already a weak front-runner and even if he did nothing legally wrong in dealing with Ukraine, the fact that his son was enriching himself by free-riding on the coattails of his father’s job won’t sit well with progressive voters, many of whom already dislike and distrust Biden.

Put it this way: Would Hunter Biden have gotten that job if his father were not vice president? Ditto for a sweetheart investment deal Hunter Biden got from the Chinese government. On at least one occasion, he reportedly flew with his father on Air Force Two to China to seal a lucrative agreement there.

That doesn’t pass the smell test and Biden could get knocked down and even out as events unfold.
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badmojo1006 said:
I am talking about other nations intelligence. They have audio . Since the edited "transcript" most likely is altered or parts missing. 
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I see.  Like the English or the Russians?  Maybe the Pakistani recording?  

You’re beginning to sound like Tim.

 
So because Biden is running for President he's off limits for being investigated for something he openly admits and brags about doing? Say that to yourself out loud. That's the argument you people are giving for Trump asking a foreign nation to cause harm on a political opponent. I can just as easily say he's acting in his role as President seeking assistance in the investigation of an admitted crime. Running for President doesn't shield Biden from being investigated and Trump being his potential opponent doesn't preclude him in his role as President from looking into it. If Biden did something illegal why can't it be investigated. Same goes for Trump. Difference between the two is one very clearly threatened to withhold funds, the other didn't.

 
timschochet said:
We need to talk some more about Bob Barr. If I’m understanding this correctly: 

1. Barr reviewed the IG report, which included this transcript. In the transcript, the President mentions Barr and asks the Ukrainian President to contact Barr. 

2. Barr decides not to send the IG report to Congress. 

This seems like its corrupt. Shouldn’t Barr have recused himself the moment his name was mentioned? If this is true Barr should be removed, possibly charged with obstruction of justice. 
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Should Barr recuse himself - absolutely.

Will Barr recuse himself - absolutely not.

 
Captain Cranks said:
Can you explain your feeling on this?  
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The difficult part, in my estimation, was going to be showing that Trump specifically asked for Joe Biden to be re-investigated, rather than for the situation to be investigated or for "Biden" to be investigated where he could say he meant Hunter.  And of course I never anticipated he'd bring Mueller and the Russia investigation into it.

 
Henry Ford said:
This is significantly worse than I'd anticipated, or it had been hyped as, yesterday in my opinion.
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Prediction: Once the whistleblower adds more detail in and around this document, only the most sycophantic Trump supporters will still be on board for this guy.

 
shader said:
It's the "between the lines" stuff that democrats and Republicans differ on.  

The democrats believe the man is a liar and has bad intentions, and so they connect the dots in a nefarious way.  The Republicans think he's an honorable person and they believe that he has honorable intentions.
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It doesn’t really matter what his intentions are because there is no quid pro quo, he only asks Zelensky to find the truth, he invokes the proper channels of working through the DOJ, and the case involves the public admission of Joe Biden about extorting Ukraine - which is also a legitimate foreign relationship issue.

Honorable intentions or not, the ask is very reasonable, appropriate and ethical.

 
Mr Anonymous said:
So because Biden is running for President he's off limits for being investigated for something he openly admits and brags about doing? Say that to yourself out loud. That's the argument you people are giving for Trump asking a foreign nation to cause harm on a political opponent. I can just as easily say he's acting in his role as President seeking assistance in the investigation of an admitted crime. Running for President doesn't shield Biden from being investigated and Trump being his potential opponent doesn't preclude him in his role as President from looking into it. If Biden did something illegal why can't it be investigated. Same goes for Trump. Difference between the two is one very clearly threatened to withhold funds, the other didn't.
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"He was only doing his job. It's just a coincidence that he asked for investigation help against his most popular political rival."

C'mon, man. We're not a bunch of attendees at MAGA rallies here.

 
Rove! said:
It doesn’t really matter what his intentions are because there is no quid pro quo, he only asks Zelensky to find the truth, he invokes the proper channels of working through the DOJ, and the case involves the public admission of Joe Biden about extorting Ukraine - which is also a legitimate foreign relationship issue.

Honorable intentions or not, the ask is very reasonable, appropriate and ethical.
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Zelensky: "We would like to buy [more military equipment]..."

Trump: "I would like you to do us a favor though...."

Not sure how this ISN'T a quid pro quo.

 
Rove! said:
It doesn’t really matter what his intentions are because there is no quid pro quo, he only asks Zelensky to find the truth, he invokes the proper channels of working through the DOJ, and the case involves the public admission of Joe Biden about extorting Ukraine - which is also a legitimate foreign relationship issue.

Honorable intentions or not, the ask is very reasonable, appropriate and ethical.
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Quid pro quo is unnecessary in this case, but yes there is.

 
cosjobs said:
NY Post questions journalistic integrity of  WaPo and NYT . :lmao:   :lmao:   :lmao:  " 

" Reports have said Biden used his VP position to demand that the inquiry be dropped and the prosecutor involved fired, or America would withhold aid." nice journalism here. Reports from whom? 
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Biden

 
Mr Anonymous said:
So because Biden is running for President he's off limits for being investigated for something he openly admits and brags about doing? Say that to yourself out loud. That's the argument you people are giving for Trump asking a foreign nation to cause harm on a political opponent. I can just as easily say he's acting in his role as President seeking assistance in the investigation of an admitted crime. Running for President doesn't shield Biden from being investigated and Trump being his potential opponent doesn't preclude him in his role as President from looking into it. If Biden did something illegal why can't it be investigated. Same goes for Trump. Difference between the two is one very clearly threatened to withhold funds, the other didn't.
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...investigated by the Ukrainians???  Say that to yourself out loud. 

 
Rove! said:
It doesn’t really matter what his intentions are because there is no quid pro quo, he only asks Zelensky to find the truth, he invokes the proper channels of working through the DOJ, and the case involves the public admission of Joe Biden about extorting Ukraine - which is also a legitimate foreign relationship issue.

Honorable intentions or not, the ask is very reasonable, appropriate and ethical.
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Where does he mention "truth" to Zelensky? I don't see that word used by Trump. Or are you suggesting he doesn't have to say that because it's implied?

 
So I just saw a Dem representative paraphrasing the conversation between Trump and Zelensky. NO, NO, NO. That's not how this should work. If you have something so damning, read it direct from the transcript. Bias spin should not and CANNOT be the standard to impeach with. That's what all the Dems here, (this forum included) are doing. Interpreting, spinning, paraphrasing, implying. That's just not good enough. Find a damn smoking gun or drop this nonsense.

 
Mr Anonymous said:
So because Biden is running for President he's off limits for being investigated for something he openly admits and brags about doing? Say that to yourself out loud. That's the argument you people are giving for Trump asking a foreign nation to cause harm on a political opponent. I can just as easily say he's acting in his role as President seeking assistance in the investigation of an admitted crime. Running for President doesn't shield Biden from being investigated and Trump being his potential opponent doesn't preclude him in his role as President from looking into it. If Biden did something illegal why can't it be investigated. Same goes for Trump. Difference between the two is one very clearly threatened to withhold funds, the other didn't.
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If Joe Biden violated conflicts of interest laws, then the FBI should investigate. What possible Ukrainian law did he violate?  

What national security interest of the United States did Donald Trump seek Ukraine’s help in securing?  He didn’t even talk about corruption generally. He mentioned two specific issues of unique interest to Donald Trump. Not US foreign policy. 

 
[scooter] said:
The President should not use his powers to ask foreign governments to investigate his political rivals.

If Joe Biden committed a crime, then our own DOJ should be the one to handle that investigation.
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While I don’t think Trump should be asking for the investigation we can’t exactly ban other countries from their own investigations.

 
And that's not because I'm a fan of Trump. I just realize what this sets up for the future. It's a horrible can of worms being opened here.

 
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Mr Anonymous said:
So I just saw a Dem representative paraphrasing the conversation between Trump and Zelensky. NO, NO, NO. That's not how this should work. If you have something so damning, read it direct from the transcript. Bias spin should not and CANNOT be the standard to impeach with. That's what all the Dems here, (this forum included) are doing. Interpreting, spinning, paraphrasing, implying. That's just not good enough. Find a damn smoking gun or drop this nonsense.
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Sinn Finn just quoted the quid pro quo from the call, care to respond?

 
Workhorse said:
Zelensky: "We would like to buy [more military equipment]..."

Trump: "I would like you to do us a favor though...."

Not sure how this ISN'T a quid pro quo.
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We spend a lot of effort and a lot of time. … The United States has been very very good to Ukraine. I wouldn’t say that it’s reciprocal necessarily because things are happening that are not good but the United States has been very very good to Ukraine.

...

I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you're  surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it. As you saw yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance - but they. say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, ·it's very important that· you. do it if that's possible.

...

Good because I· heard you had a prosecutor who· was very·good and he was shut down and that's really unfair. _·A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the_ mayor bf New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could _speak to him that would be great. The former ambassador from the United States,· the woman., was bad news and the people she was dealing with in .the Ukraine .were bad news so I just want to let you know that. The other thing, There’s a lot of talk about Biden’s son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you ·can look into it... It sounds horrible to me.
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These are consecutive sentences by the President of the United States.

 
Mr Anonymous said:
So I just saw a Dem representative paraphrasing the conversation between Trump and Zelensky. NO, NO, NO. That's not how this should work. If you have something so damning, read it direct from the transcript. Bias spin should not and CANNOT be the standard to impeach with. That's what all the Dems here, (this forum included) are doing. Interpreting, spinning, paraphrasing, implying. That's just not good enough. Find a damn smoking gun or drop this nonsense.
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Zelensky: "We would like to buy [more military equipment]..."

Trump: (VERY NEXT SENTENCE): "I would like you to do us a favor though...."

 
Mr Anonymous said:
So because Biden is running for President he's off limits for being investigated for something he openly admits and brags about doing? Say that to yourself out loud. That's the argument you people are giving for Trump asking a foreign nation to cause harm on a political opponent. I can just as easily say he's acting in his role as President seeking assistance in the investigation of an admitted crime. Running for President doesn't shield Biden from being investigated and Trump being his potential opponent doesn't preclude him in his role as President from looking into it. If Biden did something illegal why can't it be investigated. Same goes for Trump. Difference between the two is one very clearly threatened to withhold funds, the other didn't.
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Biden is not off-limits from investigation, but I would note that Barr and Trump seem to be of the opinion that the President is. 

What is troubling is that investigations don't start with the President, especially when they involve political rivals, and certainly not when tied as a pre-condition for aid.  This is fundamentally corrupt on several different levels. 

If Biden committed a crime, it should be investigated by the appropriate investigative agency (FBI) - Not Ukraine. 

If it's a dirt-digging exercise, it can be sought out by an outside PAC (Steele dossier) or private donor - Not the Office of the President and/or Justice Department. 

Delaying aid that has been already appropriated as a condition for this "investigation" makes it absolutely insane, and considering the timing of the ask (height of Mueller Report), it's absolutely battty.    

 
jonessed said:
[scooter] said:
The President should not use his powers to ask foreign governments to investigate his political rivals.

If Joe Biden committed a crime, then our own DOJ should be the one to handle that investigation.
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While I don’t think Trump should be asking for the investigation we can’t exactly ban other countries from their own investigations.
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Of course not. I never said anything about banning countries from doing something, so I'm not sure why you would even bring it up.

 
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