Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
He just played the card he always does when in trouble. "Expect a China deal sooner than later". 
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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter snitwitch
- Start date
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Your personal standard of a smoking gun has no relationship to any standard of proof found in law. Even under the no reasonable doubt standard, the trier of fact is entitled to make any reasonable inference from the evidence presented.
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shader
Footballguy
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Workhorse
Footballguy
And the elipsis between the last two sentences indicates that something was omitted there. I'd bet money that the whistleblower will fill in that gap and it won't be pretty for the POTUS.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Well, that reporter you just were discussing for one. And... uh... the President. Probably Rudy. That's three sources right there. Run the story!NY Post questions journalistic integrity of WaPo and NYT .
" Reports have said Biden used his VP position to demand that the inquiry be dropped and the prosecutor involved fired, or America would withhold aid." nice journalism here. Reports from whom?
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Nobody is asking for Ukraine to be banned from investigating things happening in their country.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Yeah, I don't know if that's just "President trailed off and started a new sentence" or a missing statement. It really doesn't matter. There's no telling what will actually happen, but this is spectacular corruption.
shader
Footballguy
This is odd to me. He directly asked a foreign govt to investigate Biden. I too was shocked when I read that and that it was released directly from the WH. I mean, at this point the only thing their base believes is directly what he says "Here's the transcript, no quid pro quo" and people believe it, despite what's in it.
I'm actually surprised he released it, after reading it.
Weebs210
Footballguy
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
I am getting tired of eating these nothing burgers, maybe we can move on to nothing tacos?
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
Think about this time yesterday. People were remarking how fast this was developing. The assumption was that with all these Congressional men and women jumping in so rapidly to support the impeachment inquiry that the evidence must be crystal clear. Turns out it was just exuberance. They jumped without even seeing evidence. That's so indescribably dangerous. This country has to start operating with it's head and not it's wants and wishes.
shader
Footballguy
The more I read it, yes perhaps you are right. My point was that the two sides read things totally differently. One with an "honorable voice" and one with a "nefarious voice". But in this case, it seems that he's clearly asking Ukraine to investigate Biden. Not much ambiguity there.
Punxsutawney Phil
Footballguy
Or he could still be obsessed with the Russian collusion issue & wants Bidens son to be put under as much scrutiny as his family was. I remember hearing the scrutiny about that deal years ago when it happened, and thought it looked bad then. I'm actually kind of hoping that Biden has to drop out because of this so Warren can get the spotlight.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
jonessed
Footballguy
If Joe Biden committed a crime, then our own DOJ should be the one to handle that investigation.
OK, so Ukraine could investigate and/or our own DOJ could investigate. That makes sense.
Rove!
Footballguy
“I would like to get to the bottom of it” “if you can look into it” is generally synonymous
adding “I would like to find out what happened”
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Henry Ford
Footballguy
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Being condescended to is a natural consequence of saying stupid #### about subjects you don’t understand. There’s a pretty simple remedy for that.
China is getting rich(er) at our expense.He just played the card he always does when in trouble. "Expect a China deal sooner than later".
Thanks Trump!
Henry Ford
Footballguy
No it isn't, and it doesn't matter. The President asked a foreign leader to meet with his personal lawyer to discuss trying to investigate a political opponent.
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
This will ultimately help Trump because it will sink Biden. Trump will get to face off agaisnt the socialist Warren and likely steamroll her.
jonessed
Footballguy
They were only a handful of votes holding it up prior. All it took was a nudge.
Under the current circumstances an impeachment proceeding seems fairly meh. I think it was largely inevitable.
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
Many democratic congressman were quetioned why they supported impeaching Trump yesterday and they said they didn't like his policies. That is not what impeachment was for and a dangerous precedent to set.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
I've asked Trump followers this same question a few times, @Mr Anonymous most recently. Crickets. I'd like to hear a benign reason for involving his personal attorney in a foreign policy matter if it has nothing to do with Trump's campaign.
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
Weebs210
Footballguy
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I don’t know how to make this any clearer. The memorandum of conversation has far more explicit evidence of impeachable conduct than even the most enthusiastic Democrats anticipated yesterday. Not one Democrat on the Hill is disappointed or underwhelmed. Ok, let’s exclude Tulsi Gabbard.
joffer
Footballguy
come onMeanwhile, the 4D Chess playing White House mistakenly sent out their party talking points to Democratic House members via email.
timschochet
Footballguy
When the public learns that Trump mentioned Biden, they’re going to realize that this is a bad thing, an impeachable thing, right? They’re not going to act like Mr. Anonymous in this thread right? Because it seems to me that the whole reason this is different is because most people don’t need an explanation as to why this is wrong. And if that’s not the case we’re really ####ed as a nation, IMO.
Rove!
Footballguy
Lets not forget that said personal lawyer has said he was meeting with Ukrainians to "help his client":
May 2019
Mr. Giuliani said he plans to travel to Kiev, the Ukrainian capital, in the coming days and wants to meet with the nation’s president-elect to urge him to pursue inquiries that allies of the White House contend could yield new information about two matters of intense interest to Mr. Trump.
One is the origin of the special counsel’s investigation into Russia’s interference in the 2016 election. The other is the involvement of former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s son in a gas company owned by a Ukrainian oligarch.
Mr. Giuliani’s plans create the remarkable scene of a lawyer for the president of the United States pressing a foreign government to pursue investigations that Mr. Trump’s allies hope could help him in his re-election campaign. And it comes after Mr. Trump spent more than half of his term facing questions about whether his 2016 campaign conspired with a foreign power.
“We’re not meddling in an election, we’re meddling in an investigation, which we have a right to do,” Mr. Giuliani said in an interview on Thursday when asked about the parallel to the special counsel’s inquiry.
“There’s nothing illegal about it,” he said. “Somebody could say it’s improper. And this isn’t foreign policy — I’m asking them to do an investigation that they’re doing already and that other people are telling them to stop. And I’m going to give them reasons why they shouldn’t stop it because that information will be very, very helpful to my client, and may turn out to be helpful to my government.”
Side note - I don't know how this will square with Rudy's recent proclamation that he only got involved at the behest of the State Department - but that is an issue for another day.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
There is enough evidence in that transcript alone for Democrats to impeach. So any danger that it would be a nothing burger is already alleviated.
Another point is part of the reason the Democrats did this was because the Administration wasn’t providing requested documents timely or at all. This transcript wouldn’t have come out today without yesterday’s action.
timschochet
Footballguy
Schiff: this was a Mafia like shakedown of a foreign leader.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
[scooter]
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Sorry, your actual response is that a section of the government that works under the President called and asked the President's lawyer to take a call from a foreign leader (as Giuliani and Giuliani alone claims) and you think that's evidence that this isn't corruption?
Workhorse
Footballguy
Jake Sherman
@JakeSherman
The White House has sent some House Democrats their talking points on the Zelensky transcript.
Jake Sherman
@JakeSherman
8m
The White House is trying to “recall” the talking points they sent to democrats.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Narrator: I wish people would stop asking these kinds of questions. I have other work to do.
timschochet
Footballguy
Yeah I read that one this morning. I actually agreed with Goodwin on one point: we both made the assumption that Trump would never release that transcript if it was damning.
We were both wrong.
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
Sammy3469
Footballguy
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
lakerstan
Footballguy
Looks like Rudy thinks the State Department asked him to step in, but they seem to have claimed otherwise.
Rudy Giuliani told Sean Hannity on Fox News Monday night that his recent dealings with Ukraine were initiated by the State Department.
"The State Department called me and said would I take a call from Mr. [Andriy] Yermak, who's No. 2 or three to the president-elect who is now the president," said Giuliani, one of President Trump's personal attorneys.
Giuliani said he then spoke with Yermak and that he then passed along the "enormously important facts" to the State Department.
When reached for comment, a State Department spokesperson said, "Mr. Giuliani is a private citizen and acts in a personal capacity as a lawyer for President Trump. He does not speak on behalf of the U.S. Government."
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/462761-giuliani-says-state-department-asked-him-to-take-call-from-ukrainian-official
Rudy Giuliani told Sean Hannity on Fox News Monday night that his recent dealings with Ukraine were initiated by the State Department.
"The State Department called me and said would I take a call from Mr. [Andriy] Yermak, who's No. 2 or three to the president-elect who is now the president," said Giuliani, one of President Trump's personal attorneys.
Giuliani said he then spoke with Yermak and that he then passed along the "enormously important facts" to the State Department.
When reached for comment, a State Department spokesperson said, "Mr. Giuliani is a private citizen and acts in a personal capacity as a lawyer for President Trump. He does not speak on behalf of the U.S. Government."
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/462761-giuliani-says-state-department-asked-him-to-take-call-from-ukrainian-official
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I still wonder about that. I’m concerned that swing voters might still think a quid pro quo is needed. Hopefully we’ll start seeing polls on this stuff. What happens with Trump’s approval rating will also be interesting.
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