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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (3 Viewers)

TheMagus said:
Here is the witness list that the House republicans asked for:

1. Devon Archer - Former Burisma board member

2. Hunter Biden - we know who that is

3. Alexandra Chalupa! - former DNC staffer they keep talking about

4. David Hale - State Dept

5. Tim Morrison - State Dept (I believe he will be testifying publicly and already gave a deposition)

6. Alexander Vindman - State Dept (will be testifying)

7. Nellie Ohr - former contractor for Fusion GPS  :wall:

8. Kurt Volker - State Dept (I believe he is also testifying and gave a deposition)

9. The Whistleblower

10. The Whistleblower's Sources
Click to expand...
Fwiw the bolded are the known persons from within the administration that the GOP has asked for and all four are testifying.

 
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jon_mx said:
I am not exactly sure what event you are talking about when you say 'we knowingly bombed our own citizens', but I am sure there was something.  Diplomacy and war are complex matters.  Trying to bring Democracy to Iraq instead of the brutal dictator was a noble cause but failed miserably.  The good which came out is that we clearly discovered most of the Middle East is not ready for Democracy and they seem quite content to keep their theocracies.  The US has had its failures and hindsight is always easy to point fingers.  Our intentions are usually good.  The US has made the world a better place and I am not ashamed of what we have tried.  
Click to expand...
Pretty sure we went into Iraq because we were told Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and helped plan 9/11.

That "trying to bring Democracy" was just a line to use after it was obvious neither of those things were true.

 
timschochet said:
So far as I am aware, there are only 4 nations on Earth that are willing to self examine their history of bad behavior without it being forced on them: the USA, Great Britain, Israel, and with certain limitations, post Apartheid South Africa. 
Click to expand...
Australia, the Soviet Union, and (unsurprisingly) Canada off the top of my head. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrump

Our Crazy, Do Nothing (where’s USMCA, infrastructure, lower drug pricing & much more?) Speaker of the House, Nervous Nancy Pelosi, who is petrified by her Radical Left knowing she will soon be gone (they & Fake News Media are her BOSS), suggested on Sunday’s DEFACE THE NATION....

....that I testify about the phony Impeachment Witch Hunt. She also said I could do it in writing. Even though I did nothing wrong, and don’t like giving credibility to this No Due Process Hoax, I like the idea & will, in order to get Congress focused again, strongly consider it!

:popcorn:

 
Sinn Fein said:
Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrump

Our Crazy, Do Nothing (where’s USMCA, infrastructure, lower drug pricing & much more?) Speaker of the House, Nervous Nancy Pelosi, who is petrified by her Radical Left knowing she will soon be gone (they & Fake News Media are her BOSS), suggested on Sunday’s DEFACE THE NATION....

....that I testify about the phony Impeachment Witch Hunt. She also said I could do it in writing. Even though I did nothing wrong, and don’t like giving credibility to this No Due Process Hoax, I like the idea & will, in order to get Congress focused again, strongly consider it!

:popcorn:
Click to expand...
No due process...here, you can give your side to it...nope, no thanks.

:lmao:

Also...seriously, we can't elect someone who can write better than that?  I mean...even with all my typos, I write better than this.  Its the ranting of a child.

 
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Sinn Fein said:
Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrump

Our Crazy, Do Nothing (where’s USMCA, infrastructure, lower drug pricing & much more?) Speaker of the House, Nervous Nancy Pelosi, who is petrified by her Radical Left knowing she will soon be gone (they & Fake News Media are her BOSS), suggested on Sunday’s DEFACE THE NATION.....that I testify about the phony Impeachment Witch Hunt. She also said I could do it in writing. Even though I did nothing wrong, and don’t like giving credibility to this No Due Process Hoax, I like the idea & will, in order to get Congress focused again, strongly consider it!

:popcorn:
Click to expand...
Just converting this into a normal, legible statement. Seems epically dumb if he does it.

 
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timschochet said:
No. All three of these nations strongly resisted having to do this. It was forced on them. 
Click to expand...
Germany recently apologized to Poland for WW2. Japan has issues literally dozens of apologies over the years, most recently for their use of "comfort women" during the war. None of these were forced in any way.

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
jon_mx said:
Despite Trump being a jerk, the US does not owe apologizes to everyone.  This need to bow down to the rest of the world and be ashamed of what America is, is a chronic weakness of the Democrats.
Click to expand...
If America acts shamefully, then it makes sense to be ashamed. I believe that the ability to admit your mistakes is a sign of strength not weakness
Click to expand...
The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is an attribute of the strong. M. Ghandi

 
Sinn Fein said:
Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrump

Our Crazy, Do Nothing (where’s USMCA, infrastructure, lower drug pricing & much more?) Speaker of the House, Nervous Nancy Pelosi, who is petrified by her Radical Left knowing she will soon be gone (they & Fake News Media are her BOSS), suggested on Sunday’s DEFACE THE NATION....

....that I testify about the phony Impeachment Witch Hunt. She also said I could do it in writing. Even though I did nothing wrong, and don’t like giving credibility to this No Due Process Hoax, I like the idea & will, in order to get Congress focused again, strongly consider it!

:popcorn:
Click to expand...
Totally going to happen in 2 weeks.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Sinn Fein said:
Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrump

Our Crazy, Do Nothing (where’s USMCA, infrastructure, lower drug pricing & much more?) Speaker of the House, Nervous Nancy Pelosi, who is petrified by her Radical Left knowing she will soon be gone (they & Fake News Media are her BOSS), suggested on Sunday’s DEFACE THE NATION.....that I testify about the phony Impeachment Witch Hunt. She also said I could do it in writing. Even though I did nothing wrong, and don’t like giving credibility to this No Due Process Hoax, I like the idea & will, in order to get Congress focused again, strongly consider it!

:popcorn:
Click to expand...
Just converting this into a normal, legible statement. Seems epically dumb if he does it.
Click to expand...
And conversely, one could argue most of the stuff you crossed out is Trump doing his usual projection.

 
Interesting piece

Schiff’s lead witnesses have no real evidence — and neither does he

https://nypost.com/2019/11/12/schiffs-lead-witnesses-have-no-real-evidence-and-neither-does-he/

“Don’t believe it. Kent and Taylor have no evidence against Trump — only a false rumor spread during a farcical game of telephone on Sept. 7. Taylor heard the claim third-hand, and then called Kent, who got it fourth-hand.

Making these diplomats lead witnesses in the impeachment show is a ruse. They never spoke with Trump about the aid and admit they had no direct knowledge of why it was delayed. They weren’t even on the controversial July 25 phone call that has become the pretext for impeachment.”

 
Sinn Fein said:
Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrump

Our Crazy, Do Nothing (where’s USMCA, infrastructure, lower drug pricing & much more?) Speaker of the House, Nervous Nancy Pelosi, who is petrified by her Radical Left knowing she will soon be gone (they & Fake News Media are her BOSS), suggested on Sunday’s DEFACE THE NATION....

....that I testify about the phony Impeachment Witch Hunt. She also said I could do it in writing. Even though I did nothing wrong, and don’t like giving credibility to this No Due Process Hoax, I like the idea & will, in order to get Congress focused again, strongly consider it!

:popcorn:
Click to expand...
There is literally a bill waiting in the senate to lower drug prices right now.   

 
John Blutarsky said:
Interesting piece

Schiff’s lead witnesses have no real evidence — and neither does he

https://nypost.com/2019/11/12/schiffs-lead-witnesses-have-no-real-evidence-and-neither-does-he/

“Don’t believe it. Kent and Taylor have no evidence against Trump — only a false rumor spread during a farcical game of telephone on Sept. 7. Taylor heard the claim third-hand, and then called Kent, who got it fourth-hand.

Making these diplomats lead witnesses in the impeachment show is a ruse. They never spoke with Trump about the aid and admit they had no direct knowledge of why it was delayed. They weren’t even on the controversial July 25 phone call that has become the pretext for impeachment.”
Click to expand...
Who said they were the lead witnesses? Because they went first? How often is the leadoff hitter the best player on the team? They have firsthand witnesses coming up this week, and would have more if Trump didn't treat congressional subpoenas like party invites. At some point, they'll likely issue court orders to appear, which carry jail time if ignored, and that'll loosen a few tongues.

 
jon_mx said:
I am not exactly sure what event you are talking about when you say 'we knowingly bombed our own citizens', but I am sure there was something.  Diplomacy and war are complex matters.  Trying to bring Democracy to Iraq instead of the brutal dictator was a noble cause but failed miserably.  The good which came out is that we clearly discovered most of the Middle East is not ready for Democracy and they seem quite content to keep their theocracies.  The US has had its failures and hindsight is always easy to point fingers.  Our intentions are usually good.  The US has made the world a better place and I am not ashamed of what we have tried.  
Click to expand...
Sorry....this was plain to see prior to us going into Iraq...it's been crystal clear since the 70s  :shrug:

And I am referring to ordered drone strikes where we knew it would certainly mean the death of US citizens.  And I categorically reject the notion that apologizing for missteps is analogous with "pointing fingers".  It's the opposite....it's accepting that actions have consequences and apologizing when we screw it up.  There has been very little I've seen in our foreign policy that has caught me be surprise.  The future results were pretty clear and I reject the notion that our government couldn't have possibly seen these things coming.  They knew what they were doing and knew what the results were going to be and did it anyway.  We can banter back and forth about what is "good" or "bad" in our intentions as that's a moving target cloaked in subjectivity.  Hopefully we can all agree that the actions are indeed, virtually every single time, self serving.

 
John Blutarsky said:
Don’t believe it. Kent and Taylor have no evidence against Trump — only a false rumor spread during a farcical game of telephone on Sept. 7. Taylor heard the claim third-hand, and then called Kent, who got it fourth-hand.
Click to expand...
- Just to understand this, you think that the Assistant Deputy Secretary of State over Ukraine and the acting Ambassador of Ukraine appointed by Trump have no knowledge of events and are making up a phone call?

 
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Kal El said:
Who said they were the lead witnesses? Because they went first? How often is the leadoff hitter the best player on the team? They have firsthand witnesses coming up this week, and would have more if Trump didn't treat congressional subpoenas like party invites. At some point, they'll likely issue court orders to appear, which carry jail time if ignored, and that'll loosen a few tongues.
Click to expand...
You're gonna get sucked into another "republicans vs 'republicans' " semantics game if you keep going down this path GB.

 
John Blutarsky said:
Interesting piece

Schiff’s lead witnesses have no real evidence — and neither does he

https://nypost.com/2019/11/12/schiffs-lead-witnesses-have-no-real-evidence-and-neither-does-he/

“Don’t believe it. Kent and Taylor have no evidence against Trump — only a false rumor spread during a farcical game of telephone on Sept. 7. Taylor heard the claim third-hand, and then called Kent, who got it fourth-hand.

Making these diplomats lead witnesses in the impeachment show is a ruse. They never spoke with Trump about the aid and admit they had no direct knowledge of why it was delayed. They weren’t even on the controversial July 25 phone call that has become the pretext for impeachment.”
Click to expand...
I think they were effective witnesses - who have put pressure on Trump and the Republicans to come up with a plausible explanation for how the White House has conducted diplomacy with Ukraine.

Those two, and Yovanovitch, have shown the importance of the relationship between the US and Ukraine.  They have spoken about the long-standing official policies toward Ukraine.  They have pointed out that there were back-channel communications going on that created conflicts with official US policy.  They have painted Trump into a corner, where he has to say Rudy was carrying out Trump's own foreign policy - but Rudy has already stated that he was working on behalf of his client - Donald Trump - defending him. (i.e. he was not working on behalf of the country).

What the Dems are attempting to do is create a very strong circumstantial case against Trump - and at the same time point out that the key witnesses like Mulvaney, Pompeo, Bolton, Trump have all refused to testify under oath to any exculpatory explanation to the Dem version of events - making the logical conclusion - there is no exculpatory explanation.

Don't lose sight of the forest here, while you examine the trees.

 
Skoo said:
Pretty sure we went into Iraq because we were told Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and helped plan 9/11.

That "trying to bring Democracy" was just a line to use after it was obvious neither of those things were true.
Click to expand...
Yep, more revisionist nonsense.

 
John Blutarsky said:
Interesting piece

Schiff’s lead witnesses have no real evidence — and neither does he

https://nypost.com/2019/11/12/schiffs-lead-witnesses-have-no-real-evidence-and-neither-does-he/

“Don’t believe it. Kent and Taylor have no evidence against Trump — only a false rumor spread during a farcical game of telephone on Sept. 7. Taylor heard the claim third-hand, and then called Kent, who got it fourth-hand.

Making these diplomats lead witnesses in the impeachment show is a ruse. They never spoke with Trump about the aid and admit they had no direct knowledge of why it was delayed. They weren’t even on the controversial July 25 phone call that has become the pretext for impeachment.”
Click to expand...
:goodposting:   This will go on dead ears in here but it is spot on.  None of the witnesses the Dems have brought up have helped their cause one bit.  

 
John Blutarsky said:
Interesting piece

Schiff’s lead witnesses have no real evidence — and neither does he

https://nypost.com/2019/11/12/schiffs-lead-witnesses-have-no-real-evidence-and-neither-does-he/

“Don’t believe it. Kent and Taylor have no evidence against Trump — only a false rumor spread during a farcical game of telephone on Sept. 7. Taylor heard the claim third-hand, and then called Kent, who got it fourth-hand.

Making these diplomats lead witnesses in the impeachment show is a ruse. They never spoke with Trump about the aid and admit they had no direct knowledge of why it was delayed. They weren’t even on the controversial July 25 phone call that has become the pretext for impeachment.”
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting this. I think it’s a good piece. This definitely  goes against the accepted narrative here in this forum so I wouldn’t expect this to be met cordially 

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
McCaughey's basis for this is that the Assistant Deputy Secretary of State over Ukraine and the acting Ambassador of Ukraine appointed by Trump made up facts from a phone call. 

Do you agree with that?
Click to expand...
That isn't his basis at all.  The fact is none of these folks have first hand knowledge and bring nothing to help Schiff's case.

 
Don't Noonan said:
That isn't his basis at all.  The fact is none of these folks have first hand knowledge and bring nothing to help Schiff's case.
Click to expand...
Well maybe you did not read the article then. McCaughey claims the phone call was a farce and that even though the President was on the call it involved a false rumor. That's the sole factual claim she makes to buttress her point and it's senseless.

Btw even Bluto doesn't stand by the piece.

 
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Kal El said:
Who said they were the lead witnesses? Because they went first? How often is the leadoff hitter the best player on the team? They have firsthand witnesses coming up this week, and would have more if Trump didn't treat congressional subpoenas like party invites. At some point, they'll likely issue court orders to appear, which carry jail time if ignored, and that'll loosen a few tongues.
Click to expand...
Its the NY Post...almost no meed to comment in a source like that giving an opinion.  Thats the GOP again trying to spin away from the substance of what is being said about Trump in their friendly media outlets...most of which are more biased than the media Trump complains about so often.

 
Don't Noonan said:
That isn't his basis at all.  The fact is none of these folks have first hand knowledge and bring nothing to help Schiff's case.
Click to expand...
Part of the challenge here is defining the scope.

Republicans want to define a narrow scope around the phone call.

But, I think the Dems are taking a much larger view at Trump's conduct - and these witnesses were able to help define that, identify the people with more direct knowledge, and to identify the impact of the shadow policy on Ukraine and also on the US's national security.

And, as I said above - witnesses like these allow you to see the forest from the trees.  Big picture type witnesses.  They also put pressure on the White House to produce witnesses that can refute their testimony.  Right now, the dems are taking the witnesses they can get because the White House is prohibiting witnesses from testifying.  If you really want first-hand knowledge, you should be clamoring for Bolton, and Mulvaney, and Pompeo, and for Trump to take the witness stand and tell Congress what they know - under oath.

 
sho nuff said:
Hell just convince him that Obama would testify better than him and he will push people out of the way to do it.
Click to expand...
Yup.

Hillary sat up there and took 8 hours of Benghazi questions. 

I will donate a hundred to Trump’s failing Doral resort to make this happen. Someone start up a gofundme.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Part of the challenge here is defining the scope.

Republicans want to define a narrow scope around the phone call.

But, I think the Dems are taking a much larger view at Trump's conduct - and these witnesses were able to help define that, identify the people with more direct knowledge, and to identify the impact of the shadow policy on Ukraine and also on the US's national security.

And, as I said above - witnesses like these allow you to see the forest from the trees.  Big picture type witnesses.  They also put pressure on the White House to produce witnesses that can refute their testimony.  Right now, the dems are taking the witnesses they can get because the White House is prohibiting witnesses from testifying.  If you really want first-hand knowledge, you should be clamoring for Bolton, and Mulvaney, and Pompeo, and for Trump to take the witness stand and tell Congress what they know - under oath.
Click to expand...
"All the pieces matter."

 
Why would anyone under investigation agree to be questioned for hours?  No matter what you say, something could be used against you, and in a lot of cases what you say ends up being what gets you in trouble, not the actual conduct (see.. Clinton, Mr. Clinton not Mrs.)

 
KPD said:
Why would anyone under investigation agree to be questioned for hours?  No matter what you say, something could be used against you, and in a lot of cases what you say ends up being what gets you in trouble, not the actual conduct (see.. Clinton, Mr. Clinton not Mrs.)
Click to expand...
It's kinda unavoidable if you follow the law. The president not allowing so many in his inner circle to testify before Congress makes him look very bad in the court of public opinion. Like he's got something to hide, perhaps. If he felt good about his case, he'd face the music and shoot his accusers down (figuratively).

 
KPD said:
Why would anyone under investigation agree to be questioned for hours?  No matter what you say, something could be used against you, and in a lot of cases what you say ends up being what gets you in trouble, not the actual conduct (see.. Clinton, Mr. Clinton not Mrs.)
Click to expand...
Because you're innocent?

Hillary sat there for 8 hours and I don't believe they've locked her up just yet.

 
KPD said:
Why would anyone under investigation agree to be questioned for hours?  No matter what you say, something could be used against you, and in a lot of cases what you say ends up being what gets you in trouble, not the actual conduct (see.. Clinton, Mr. Clinton not Mrs.)
Click to expand...
Especially when you did it.

 
Skoo said:
Pretty sure we went into Iraq because we were told Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and helped plan 9/11.

That "trying to bring Democracy" was just a line to use after it was obvious neither of those things were true.
Click to expand...
The part about removing Saddam was not added after the fact. It was an argument people like me made from the beginning. Seeing how things turned out, that doesn't look like a good reason in hindsight, but it's not like it was an excuse which was added later.

 
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