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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (5 Viewers)

I'll echo what others have said.  I have voted for Republicans at the local and state level a number of times.  Never. Again.

What we are seeing from them is a total disgrace, and what disgusts me the most is that most of these congressmen are very smart people  They know better.  They know exactly what they are doing.  They know their arguments are irrelevant and in bad faith.  They know this behavior by Trump is completely unacceptable.  They know they are covering for a criminal.

I'm glad this is all going on the public record so that history can judge these spineless cowards for who they really are.  I'm hopeful some of the people in here will also reflect on their positions as the country heals from the memory of this.

 
 
Dickies said:
I'll echo what others have said.  I have voted for Republicans at the local and state level a number of times.  Never. Again.

What we are seeing from them is a total disgrace, and what disgusts me the most is that most of these congressmen are very smart people  They know better.  They know exactly what they are doing.  They know their arguments are irrelevant and in bad faith.  They know this behavior by Trump is completely unacceptable.  They know they are covering for a criminal.

I'm glad this is all going on the public record so that history can judge these spineless cowards for who they really are.  I'm hopeful some of the people in here will also reflect on their positions as the country heals from the memory of this.
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I'm struggling with this a little bit.

I sometimes vote R at the state level, and almost always vote R at the local level (the Ds here have done some infuriating things recently that I won't get into). I'm in the suburbs of Philadelphia. 

Our current commissioner is an R and we know him personally a little bit. He was sending out emails before the election a few weeks ago with who he was supporting and whatnot (all Rs). I got an email the day after the election and the vast majority of the people he was endorsing lost. I almost replied to him "maybe they should have run as independents" but decided against it. 

Here is what I struggle with - it is really unfair to lump in local politicians with Nunes or McConnell. But at the same time, the fact that they are running with that R next to their name gives me a little bit of a pause about their judgment. I can firmly say that I will NOT vote R at the federal (and probably state) level in any foreseeable future. But I do have some thinking to do about sweeping with such a broad brush before the next election. 

 
TheMagus said:
I'm struggling with this a little bit.

I sometimes vote R at the state level, and almost always vote R at the local level (the Ds here have done some infuriating things recently that I won't get into). I'm in the suburbs of Philadelphia. 

Our current commissioner is an R and we know him personally a little bit. He was sending out emails before the election a few weeks ago with who he was supporting and whatnot (all Rs). I got an email the day after the election and the vast majority of the people he was endorsing lost. I almost replied to him "maybe they should have run as independents" but decided against it. 

Here is what I struggle with - it is really unfair to lump in local politicians with Nunes or McConnell. But at the same time, the fact that they are running with that R next to their name gives me a little bit of a pause about their judgment. I can firmly say that I will NOT vote R at the federal (and probably state) level in any foreseeable future. But I do have some thinking to do about sweeping with such a broad brush before the next election. 
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I agree with much of this. 

This impeachment process will have short term implications to how I choose to vote. But, I'm young enough, I will continue to vote for the person that I think best represents me and our country.

I would caution those that say they will never vote R. If one party can swing so far right. The other can swing just as far left. If you find yourself in the same position in 20 years will you then vote only for Independents or not at all?

 
TheMagus said:
I'm struggling with this a little bit.

I sometimes vote R at the state level, and almost always vote R at the local level (the Ds here have done some infuriating things recently that I won't get into). I'm in the suburbs of Philadelphia. 

Our current commissioner is an R and we know him personally a little bit. He was sending out emails before the election a few weeks ago with who he was supporting and whatnot (all Rs). I got an email the day after the election and the vast majority of the people he was endorsing lost. I almost replied to him "maybe they should have run as independents" but decided against it. 

Here is what I struggle with - it is really unfair to lump in local politicians with Nunes or McConnell. But at the same time, the fact that they are running with that R next to their name gives me a little bit of a pause about their judgment. I can firmly say that I will NOT vote R at the federal (and probably state) level in any foreseeable future. But I do have some thinking to do about sweeping with such a broad brush before the next election. 
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I'm in that same boat. I tend to favor the R at the local and state level, but I have voted for D before and will continue to do so in the future. That said, it's going to be very hard to convince myself to vote R at the state level, and almost impossible at the federal level, unless/until they get rid of the portion of the party that advocates racism and hatred.

 
Koya said:
I don't know of many instances where Schiff has flat out lied.  Certainly not on par with Trump who literally does it many times a day. And as much as you may want to deny that, again, it's an incontrovertible truth.  As you say, own it.

To the Schiff issue, kindly show your receipts or don't utilize this misinformation piece any longer as we are trying to promote constructive and fact based conversation here.
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Buddy, while you were gone this has been done ad nauseam, each time with the same result, as per tim's post above

 
cobalt_27 said:
I've read your opinion links.  Those opinion pieces reinforce my original statement.  To say Schiff lied is simply--factually--just plainly incorrect.

Also, I had no idea the right-wing media sites are cluttered with so many ads and pop-ups.  So annoying.
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Yea...documenting facts and lies don't come out in opinion pieces.  

 
Who cares if Schiff is a liar or not.  If his closing speech was disingenuous, if he had crocodile tears, does that really matter?  It appears today was an awful day for the right, (though I didn’t get to watch and am only going off of news articles).

Even if Schiff is a lying clown, that doesn’t  change the damning testimony, does it?

 
TheMagus said:
I'm struggling with this a little bit.

I sometimes vote R at the state level, and almost always vote R at the local level (the Ds here have done some infuriating things recently that I won't get into). I'm in the suburbs of Philadelphia. 

Our current commissioner is an R and we know him personally a little bit. He was sending out emails before the election a few weeks ago with who he was supporting and whatnot (all Rs). I got an email the day after the election and the vast majority of the people he was endorsing lost. I almost replied to him "maybe they should have run as independents" but decided against it. 

Here is what I struggle with - it is really unfair to lump in local politicians with Nunes or McConnell. But at the same time, the fact that they are running with that R next to their name gives me a little bit of a pause about their judgment. I can firmly say that I will NOT vote R at the federal (and probably state) level in any foreseeable future. But I do have some thinking to do about sweeping with such a broad brush before the next election. 
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I've never been like this, hence why I have voted for multiple political parties in my life.  The Republican brand is stained as I see it, and any state or local people willing to put the R next to their name, in my opinion, are implicit in their support for what Republicans in Congress is doing right now.

 
The General said:
All this that Sondland laid out today, ITS ALL THERE and we talk about this canard that Schiff knows the WB.
 

SMH
 
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It's sad and sort of disheartening that nothing that happens will change the impeachment outcome, or convince the base. Note that I'm not saying "the Republicans" because my sense talking with my own conservative friends is many non-politician republicans are tired of all of this, and not in a kool-aid drinking way. The one benefit of days like today is it sort of simplifies the situation for most. As plausible defenses fall by the wayside and are replaced by the outlandish, all that is left is an excessively transparent bias of the base.

 
KCitons said:
I agree with much of this. 

This impeachment process will have short term implications to how I choose to vote. But, I'm young enough, I will continue to vote for the person that I think best represents me and our country.

I would caution those that say they will never vote R. If one party can swing so far right. The other can swing just as far left. If you find yourself in the same position in 20 years will you then vote only for Independents or not at all?
Click to expand...
Withholding my vote from Republicans at the state and federal level has nothing to do with right vs. left. What we're seeing from the Republican party is not merely a swing to the far right. It's a swing away from integrity. The excuses they make, the blind eyes they turn... these are not acceptable from a moral standpoint and that's step 1. When vetting a candidate, step 1 isn't about right or left... if you can't be trusted, you can't be voted for. Think of it as the first part of a flow chart.

I don't really like how far left some of the Democratic candidates are, but at least they're trying to do the right thing. Misguided or not, that's a lot better than having anyone from an obviously corrupt party lie to me, telling me what I want to hear, then voting against my interests once they're in office. 

 
Koya said:
I don't know of many instances where Schiff has flat out lied.  Certainly not on par with Trump who literally does it many times a day. And as much as you may want to deny that, again, it's an incontrovertible truth.  As you say, own it.

To the Schiff issue, kindly show your receipts or don't utilize this misinformation piece any longer as we are trying to promote constructive and fact based conversation here.
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Here is one example where he lied denying his staff met with the whistleblower.

Schiff Lying again

Note, this is not Schiff lying that he doesn't know who the whistleblower is, it is him lying that his staff met with him.  I am confident Schiff is lying that he doesn't know who the whistleblower is too.

 
KCitons said:
I agree with much of this. 

This impeachment process will have short term implications to how I choose to vote. But, I'm young enough, I will continue to vote for the person that I think best represents me and our country.

I would caution those that say they will never vote R. If one party can swing so far right. The other can swing just as far left. If you find yourself in the same position in 20 years will you then vote only for Independents or not at all?
Click to expand...
I will always vote, but if the Democrats abandon truth I'll have no problem dropping them too.  Disinformation is way scarier to me than the policy ideas of the mainstream politicians I disagree with most.

 
krista4 said:
Yes, but we don’t deserve The Mooch.
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A group I work with was looking to put together a major developers conference next fall (now moved to 2021)... Mooch was at one point going to be one of our keynotes.  Say what you want, but the guy brings the interesting.

 
Dickies said:
I will always vote, but if the Democrats abandon truth I'll have no problem dropping them too.  Disinformation is way scarier to me than the policy ideas of the mainstream politicians I disagree with most.
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You'll soon find there is no one left on the ballot to vote for.

 
Koya said:
A group I work with was looking to put together a major developers conference next fall (now moved to 2021)... Mooch was at one point going to be one of our keynotes.  Say what you want, but the guy brings the interesting.
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@krista4 - If we get going on the 2021, and Mooch is part of the festivities, I'll be sure to get you VIP access. 😉

 
cobalt_27 said:
I've read your opinion links.  Those opinion pieces reinforce my original statement.  To say Schiff lied is simply--factually--just plainly incorrect.

Also, I had no idea the right-wing media sites are cluttered with so many ads and pop-ups.  So annoying.
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To say Schiff hasn’t lied is simply-factually-just plainly incorrect.

 
TheMagus said:
I have a thought about Elise Stefanik. I wonder if she knows she is likely to lose her seat in 2020 and instead is angling for some kind of power position in the RNC or as a talking head on conservative media. 
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NY21?  That is a pretty safe seat.  She is holding that seat.  

 
Don't Noonan said:
Schiff has a D next to his name so he does nothing wrong
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Schiff and Pelosi are corrupt as hell.  McConnell is corrupt as hell.  Trump and the Clintons should probably be in jail.

It's not hard to see both.

Plus in my eyes we are talking about terrible human beings.

 
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Koya said:
She knows she is likely to lose her seat. And she can get a sense of the shame that has enveloped her for turning her back on her constituents and everyday Americans by putting Party of Trump above all else.  I'd say yeah, she's angling for a soft landing where such views are never challenged and she can be idolized as a parrot of the talking points of the week.
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That seat isn't even listed as a competitive seat in Cook.  She will hold it.   That is way northern NY state and very rural.  Just because it says NY next to it doesn't mean it is competitive.  She won it by 12 points in 2018 so it wasn't even close in a wave election year.  

 
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Koya said:
We used to live in a nation that respected the views of others, and respected others from the "other" side of the aisle.  Yes, we've had animosity, but nothing like today.

Trump is, flat out, a bad person. He has decades of lying, cheating, philandering, xenophobia, racism (in word and deed), doesn't pay small business owners who work for him, and is a general all around narcissist who cares solely about himself.  This is not someone worth of respect, regardless if you agree with him on certain issues.

Sadly, so many Republicans that had a chance to lead and show some moral turpitude have shrunk to being acolytes of Trump. They have earned a lack of respect for those actions ... but we are a nation that is willing to forgive if people redeem. 

Perhaps we will once again look for quality of character as something on par with ideology or how it benefits "our party" - it's a shame that has been so lost... something that imo began with the utterly inflexible demands of the Contract with America and Newt in the 1990's (that's not to say it's all republican, this has had influence from both sides... but the GOP's lack of character has been on wide display during the Trump years).

Now, if only the DNC werent such a self serving machine that HAD to force Hillary upon us... but that ship has sailed as well. 

Lets go Pete?
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He's not a DNC puppet?

 
Don't Noonan said:
Nunes is so good playing out the bogus accusations and illustrating the sham hearings that Dems control all witnesses.  
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To be clear, is it your position that all of these Trump appointees and career non-partisans are conspiring and created this whole quid-pro-quo out of whole cloth?  

 
Apple Jack said:
He's also suing a fictional cow.
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The problem with your statement...is you said also...and considering what the claim was that Nunes was good at...that seems pretty strange.  As all Nunes does is claim things are a circus and a charade and use a lot of childish buzzwords without ever even addressing the inquiry and testimony at all.  He was awful today.

 
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