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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (8 Viewers)

"I take Congresses constitutional responsibilities for oversight very seriously and will comply with the investigations.  I will instruct the entire executive branch to participate fully, answer truthfully all questions, and provide all requested documents.  I look forward to clearing my name so we, as a country, can heal and move forward on issues that affect all Americans."*

*Hypothetical statement put forth by a hypothetical ethical president who has nothing to hide.

 
"I take Congresses constitutional responsibilities for oversight very seriously and will comply with the investigations.  I will instruct the entire executive branch to participate fully, answer truthfully all questions, and provide all requested documents.  I look forward to clearing my name so we, as a country, can heal and move forward on issues that affect all Americans."*

*Hypothetical statement put forth by a hypothetical ethical president who has nothing to hide.
Now, if that happened and it turned out there were decent explanations for everything, yes.  That would severely damage the Democrats in the upcoming election in my opinion.  
 

If instead he does that series of things he’s definitely going to do, these proceedings will harm the Republicans in my opinion.  No matter which way they vote on removal. 

 
But spying! Seriously, do the people claiming that know how spying even works, or is it just their latest attempt at deflection and misinformation? Fairly sure I already know the answer.
Their game plan is to come to the argument with 10 inane points.  They are often very obscure so it is hard to prepare for them.  When you hesitate to try to comprehend the inane argument they claim victory and just keep on talking.  Basically every episode of Meet the Press lately.  Just trying to run out the clock whether an interview or an administration.

 
Their game plan is to come to the argument with 10 inane points.  They are often very obscure so it is hard to prepare for them.  When you hesitate to try to comprehend the inane argument they claim victory and just keep on talking.  Basically every episode of Meet the Press lately.  Just trying to run out the clock whether an interview or an administration.
That's a complete waste of time and effort to try and figure out. If they want to pretend everything's fine and dandy, they can, but reality will have other ideas.

 
Their game plan is to come to the argument with 10 inane points.  They are often very obscure so it is hard to prepare for them.  When you hesitate to try to comprehend the inane argument they claim victory and just keep on talking.  Basically every episode of Meet the Press lately.  Just trying to run out the clock whether an interview or an administration.
Not so fast. President greatest at everything and anything has a better idea:

In conversations with the White House, the Kentucky Republican has made clear he hopes to end the trial as soon as he can, an effort to both get impeachment off his lap and protect his conference from potentially damaging votes should the process break out into partisan warfare. That will include a continuous whip count until McConnell feels he has the votes to acquit the President and end the show. He has even floated a 10-day minimum during these talks, one person said.

But the show is exactly what Trump wants. He's made clear to advisers privately that rather than end the trial as quickly as possible, he is hoping for a dramatic event, according to two people familiar with his thinking. He wants Hunter Biden, Rep. Adam Schiff and the whistleblower to testify. He wants the witnesses to be live, not clips of taped depositions. And he's hoping to turn it into a spectacle, which he thinks is his best chance to hurt Democrats in the election.


Growing divide between Trump and McConnell over impeachment trial

 
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Precedent set by what Trump did has the power to forever change the Republic. If it isn’t punished, our chances of survival diminish greatly. 
That's what I'm saying. The punishment should fit the crime. Abuse of power and Obstruction of Congress? I think the Republic will survive if Trump gets impeached. Punishment enough. I don't think it deserves removal from office, imo.
I might agree with you but how do we stop Trump from doing it again and again and again? We got lucky this time because we happened to catch him in the act. But what if next time we're not as lucky and innocent people die as a result of his actions?

 
I might agree with you but how do we stop Trump from doing it again and again and again? We got lucky this time because we happened to catch him in the act. But what if next time we're not as lucky and innocent people die as a result of his actions?
We caught him once but was it the biggest he’s pulled off? A criminal doesn’t do the crime just once. He’s done this before and will do it again regardless of whatever action is taken soon... unless he would be removed. 

 
I might agree with you but how do we stop Trump from doing it again and again and again? We got lucky this time because we happened to catch him in the act. But what if next time we're not as lucky and innocent people die as a result of his actions?
Lucky is right. Even after somebody blew the whistle, the report was almost successfully buried. The Trump team came very close to pulling this off. The President of Ukraine would have announced an investigation into Biden and the American press would have taken it seriously. It would have worked again.

(“Again” because it appears to have already worked once with the previous Ukrainian administration. Funny how Ukraine’s cooperation with the Mueller investigation vis-a-vis Manafort suddenly came to a halt.)

 
Not sure the exact % is but Congress has a very low approval rating, many even in the single digits. That is not going to appeal to many  voters to  charge the President with obstructing them as an article of impeachment. Pelosi tried to water this down as much as possible to get as many Democrat Representatives in Trump districts cover to make sure she had most on board to go along with this process and vote to impeach.

 
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No Trump supporter has ever been able to explain to me exactly why the FBI spied on the Trump campaign.  And if they had plans to prevent him from being president what did they do?  Why spy or have plans if the ONLY action the FBI took was to torpedo Hillary's campaign with an unheard of announcement 2 weeks before the election?

Or do Trump supporters believe the plan was to spy on Trump, and when he won THEN they would bring him down?  How has the FBI done anything since Trump's been elected to undermine Trump?  The Mueller investigation was started because of Trump's own actions after he was elected and by republicans.

I really don't understand the whole spying narrative.  It's kind of like common sense doesn't matter to Trump supporters at times.  Like common sense would tell you that the only American Trump has asked a foreign leader to investigate is his primary political opponent because he wanted to politically damage that opponent.  That makes perfect sense.  Suggesting Trump was investigating corruption when he'd never done it before makes ZERO sense. 

 
No Trump supporter has ever been able to explain to me exactly why the FBI spied on the Trump campaign.  And if they had plans to prevent him from being president what did they do?  Why spy or have plans if the ONLY action the FBI took was to torpedo Hillary's campaign with an unheard of announcement 2 weeks before the election?

Or do Trump supporters believe the plan was to spy on Trump, and when he won THEN they would bring him down?  How has the FBI done anything since Trump's been elected to undermine Trump?  The Mueller investigation was started because of Trump's own actions after he was elected and by republicans.

I really don't understand the whole spying narrative.  It's kind of like common sense doesn't matter to Trump supporters at times.  Like common sense would tell you that the only American Trump has asked a foreign leader to investigate is his primary political opponent because he wanted to politically damage that opponent.  That makes perfect sense.  Suggesting Trump was investigating corruption when he'd never done it before makes ZERO sense. 
It's because the counter story isn't meant to make sense from 10,000 feet.  It's just a patchwork of obfuscations to use one at a time to protect the President.

 
Oh my, the Democrat friendly polling outfit Quinnipiac has impeachment back under water. 

A majority of voters now oppose impeaching and ousting President Trump from office, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released Tuesday — the same day Democrats unveiled articles of impeachment against the commander in chief.

The poll found that 51% of registered voters surveyed said they don’t want to see Trump impeached and removed from office — compared to 45% who do.

Answers were split along party lines, with 83% of those who said they want the president impeached identifying as Democrats, and 95% who said they don’t identifying as Republicans.

The last time more than 50% opposed impeachment was when House Speaker Nancy Pelosi launched the inquiry in late September.

The poll released Tuesday was conducted between Dec. 4 and 9, during the series of House Judiciary Committee public hearing and after the House Intelligence Committee hearings.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2019/12/10/majority-of-voters-dont-want-trump-impeached-removed-from-office-poll/amp/

 
That poll doesn’t oppose impeachment. It’s impeachment and removal.  That’s been hovering around 50-52% for most of this process. 
Edit: the Morning Consult poll last/this week, for instance, had 41% against impeachment, but 50% against impeachment and removal. 

 
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It seems pretty clear that public opinions on impeachment and removal will remain roughly 50/50 for the time being.  It seems like conjecture to predict what will happen at the Senate trial.  We could remain deeply decided or we could see a break in either direction.  

 
The problem is that it isn't plausible. The Ukraine had no rhyme or reason to interfere in the 2016 election, whereas Russia did, and they did so several times. The Ukraine is currently at war with Russia(I think), and Trump is choosing the wrong side.
The war is what might hint at a motive. If Russia is behind Trump, Ukraine could be behind his opponent. NOT saying it is credible

 
The war is what might hint at a motive. If Russia is behind Trump, Ukraine could be behind his opponent. NOT saying it is credible
I was young when the Cold War ended, but this is playing out like it's still going on, and it's not going well for us.

 
No Trump supporter has ever been able to explain to me exactly why the FBI spied on the Trump campaign.  And if they had plans to prevent him from being president what did they do?  Why spy or have plans if the ONLY action the FBI took was to torpedo Hillary's campaign with an unheard of announcement 2 weeks before the election?

Or do Trump supporters believe the plan was to spy on Trump, and when he won THEN they would bring him down?  How has the FBI done anything since Trump's been elected to undermine Trump?  The Mueller investigation was started because of Trump's own actions after he was elected and by republicans.

I really don't understand the whole spying narrative.  It's kind of like common sense doesn't matter to Trump supporters at times.  Like common sense would tell you that the only American Trump has asked a foreign leader to investigate is his primary political opponent because he wanted to politically damage that opponent.  That makes perfect sense.  Suggesting Trump was investigating corruption when he'd never done it before makes ZERO sense. 
Answer is obvious.  Obama administration spied on Trump campaign in hopes of finding something to bring him down.  They found nothing and he got elected.  Since then they have tried to cover their tracks and now they are getting exposed.  Durham report will be enlightening.

 
I think there is another element to the poll as well. Years ago I had a statistics class and my professor had an interesting theory about polling: people don’t like to be wrong. So if you ask them what should happen, a lot of the time they will answer what is likely to happen, and the more likely any given outcome, the more people will tell you it’s the outcome they desire. 

In this case most people know that the Senate will not remove President Trump. That being the case it causes many to say that they prefer that outcome. 

It’s just a theory but I find it compelling. 

 
No Trump supporter has ever been able to explain to me exactly why the FBI spied on the Trump campaign.  And if they had plans to prevent him from being president what did they do?  Why spy or have plans if the ONLY action the FBI took was to torpedo Hillary's campaign with an unheard of announcement 2 weeks before the election?

Or do Trump supporters believe the plan was to spy on Trump, and when he won THEN they would bring him down?  How has the FBI done anything since Trump's been elected to undermine Trump?  The Mueller investigation was started because of Trump's own actions after he was elected and by republicans.

I really don't understand the whole spying narrative.  It's kind of like common sense doesn't matter to Trump supporters at times.  Like common sense would tell you that the only American Trump has asked a foreign leader to investigate is his primary political opponent because he wanted to politically damage that opponent.  That makes perfect sense.  Suggesting Trump was investigating corruption when he'd never done it before makes ZERO sense. 
You won't get a coherent explanation either.  It's tough to sew together a major conspiracy that allegedly started before Trump was even the nominee in an effort to bring him down during the general that few thought he would end up being part of in the first place.  It's a pretty tight corner they've backed themselves into and now that the report is out saying the FBI screwed up on process points but there was no evidence of nefarious actions it's going to get even more interesting to watch.  Specifically the reasoning behind the FBI being motivated to forge documents to begin the investigation, but not being complete and forging more documents to nail him.  That will always go unexplained.  Logic says if you're going to start something on a false premise, you'd want to follow it all the way through, but that didn't happen.  Just weird all around.  

Usually, I have to wait for the WH to switch political hands to see the roles reversed as far as political :hophead:    Not this time.  I believe the Trump supporters have already taken over the role of "just wait for the next investigation" ala the Dems just a few months ago.  Difference here being there was more "there" in the Mueller investigation than the most recent IG report so I can sort of understand the desperation to move onto the next "investigation".  Remember Benghazi?  I suspect it will go like that until Trump's out of office.

 
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They leaked a made up dossier so.......
After the election...

You’re story also doesn’t work with the fact that they knew Russia was responsible for the interference but didn’t announce it. If they were trying to damage the Trump campaign, why would they even ask McConnell to do a bipartisan announcement? Wouldn’t they just announce it to try and hurt Trump?

 
Another thing is I think we read into independent voters’ thoughts too much.  Just because they may not favor impeachment doesn’t necessarily tell us how they’ll vote.  I mean there is a big difference between “Although what Trump did was wrong, I’d rather have him stay for now and let the voters decide at the election” and “This is a total bull#### witch hunt.  No way am I ever voting for a Democrat again!”

 
Only a couple of weeks ago Horowitz was the Man. Now he’s just another Deep Stater and Durham is the Man. How long before Durham turns out to be just another Deep Stater? 

When I was a kid there was this psychic named Jeanne Dixon, and every few months she would make some wild public prediction: Gerald Ford would resign from office! Khomeini would be killed and the Shah would return to Iran, and it would happen on November 1, 1980 at 3pm EST! When the predictions didn’t come true, she would simply move on to the next one. And it didn’t matter to her fans; she made tons of money. 

 
After the election...

You’re story also doesn’t work with the fact that they knew Russia was responsible for the interference but didn’t announce it. If they were trying to damage the Trump campaign, why would they even ask McConnell to do a bipartisan announcement? Wouldn’t they just announce it to try and hurt Trump?
Because the story doesn't make sense as all.  To even start to buy in, you have to accept that the DOJ hated Trump and worked against getting him elected, breaking the law in the case of the FISA warrents (according to Trump supporters).  You then have to buy the fact that the DOJ was willing to break the law and they then did NOTHING to prevent him from getting elected.  A few simple leaks would have torpedoed his campaign.  Instead they release a story to the NYT saying they found no collusion with Russian oh and btw they crushed Hillary's campaign with an actual 11th, unheard of announcement.

It defies logic,  just like the Ukraine bribery does.  But Trump supporters just plow forward with narratives that have little bearing to logic and common sense in these cases.

 
Because the story doesn't make sense as all.  To even start to buy in, you have to accept that the DOJ hated Trump and worked against getting him elected, breaking the law in the case of the FISA warrents (according to Trump supporters).  You then have to buy the fact that the DOJ was willing to break the law and they then did NOTHING to prevent him from getting elected.  A few simple leaks would have torpedoed his campaign.  Instead they release a story to the NYT saying they found no collusion with Russian oh and btw they crushed Hillary's campaign with an actual 11th, unheard of announcement.

It defies logic,  just like the Ukraine bribery does.  But Trump supporters just plow forward with narratives that have little bearing to logic and common sense in these cases.
Well we have access to top ranking FBI agents texts saying they will do whatever it takes to stop Trump from being elected.  I am sure it is nothing.   :lol:

 
Only a couple of weeks ago Horowitz was the Man. Now he’s just another Deep Stater and Durham is the Man. How long before Durham turns out to be just another Deep Stater? 

When I was a kid there was this psychic named Jeanne Dixon, and every few months she would make some wild public prediction: Gerald Ford would resign from office! Khomeini would be killed and the Shah would return to Iran, and it would happen on November 1, 1980 at 3pm EST! When the predictions didn’t come true, she would simply move on to the next one. And it didn’t matter to her fans; she made tons of money. 
reminds me of Harold Camping

 
He didn’t? Wait so the FBI wanted to bring Trump down but the head of the FBI didn’t? 

Are you sure about this? Have you discussed these talking points with your fellow Trump supporters? 
Sounds like you are trying to be funny.  We have proof folks in the FBI wanted to take down Trump.  We have Comey who is a proven liar and was obviously conflicted.

 
Well we have access to top ranking FBI agents texts saying they will do whatever it takes to stop Trump from being elected.  I am sure it is nothing.   :lol:
What did they do?

If it was SOMETHING surely you can point to more than just mean texts.  I mean we're almost 3 years in with plenty of investigations already.  What did the FBI do to prevent him from getting elected?

 
Sounds like you are trying to be funny.  We have proof folks in the FBI wanted to take down Trump.  We have Comey who is a proven liar and was obviously conflicted.
Texts are proof?  Then we have "proof" that Trump tried to collude with Russia by virtue of him asking them for help.

You sure we have proof?

 
What did they do?

If it was SOMETHING surely you can point to more than just mean texts.  I mean we're almost 3 years in with plenty of investigations already.  What did the FBI do to prevent him from getting elected?
We will know more when Durham report comes out.  Patience grasshopper.

 
I'll just stop here, but I'll just point out that this is the phenomenon. And I'm guessing it's roughly 20% of the electorate. Trump could push absolutely any damned thing and it will work.
Trump can say and do whatever he wants without repercussions from his base.   

People that oppose him are "human scum", the press is an "enemy of the state" and the intelligence community can't be trusted and the military is part of the "deep state".    Trump is telling the truth and everyone else is lying.   

I've been alive since Eisenhower was in office and never thought I would hear the things that Trump says coming out of the mouth of an American president and 40% of the country is perfectly fine with it.     Scary times indeed.

 

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