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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread***

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I must say this selective ethics faux-outrage about the Democrats not doing enough is pretty good spin. It will certainly be the angle Republicans use for the 2020 election season.

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Purposely misrepresenting the democrats as the liberals they are today instead of the conservatives they were at the time trying to impeach Lincoln is disgraceful, McClintock. 

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48 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

It really isn't about Ukraine getting $400 million.  It boils down to whether or not your okay with the President withholding the money for his own political gain.  

Perhaps if I didn’t think it was already runofthemill stuff for the US to extort foreign govts to get what it wants- whether it’s to serve the defense or oil industries- I would find it to be a bigger deal.  That kind of extortion, theft, and violence is ok of course.  This is the sort of shake-down international crime syndicate stuff the US does all the time.  

I question how ethical Trump’s motives were to raise the idea of investigating the Bidens, but the truth is I really just don’t care that much.  The Bidens ARE corrupt- Joe backed an illegal overthrow in Ukraine and then his son got a cush job 2 months later after daddy became the new boss in town.  That’s corruption.  There’s no victims here.  Trump shouldn’t have been so hamfisted but the Bidens aren’t above scrutiny either.

I wouldn’t say I’m okay with what he did, but I think it’s absurd to suggest it warrants impeachment and removal from office.  

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2 hours ago, adonis said:

The USA is not Trumps personal piggy bank whose money is his to do with as he wishes, and benefit him in whatever way he sees fit.

Funding to key allies should not be used as leverage by him to achieve personal political goals for the 2020 election.  Here he is again attempting to get help from a foreign government to influence a domestic US election.  How many times do we need to see him do this kind of thing before we say enough?  This isn't how a president should behave.  This isn't what a president should do with the power we gave him.  This isn't how a president should approach free and fair elections at home.

There's still Saudi Arabia to come, then Turkey, the Phillipines, Poland...

The Don's been busy. 

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1 hour ago, ren hoek said:

 

I wouldn’t say I’m okay with what he did, but I think it’s absurd to suggest it warrants impeachment and removal from office.  

Fair enough.  I don't agree with you though. 

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1 hour ago, ren hoek said:

Perhaps if I didn’t think it was already runofthemill stuff for the US to extort foreign govts to get what it wants- whether it’s to serve the defense or oil industries- I would find it to be a bigger deal.  That kind of extortion, theft, and violence is ok of course.  This is the sort of shake-down international crime syndicate stuff the US does all the time.  

I question how ethical Trump’s motives were to raise the idea of investigating the Bidens, but the truth is I really just don’t care that much.  The Bidens ARE corrupt- Joe backed an illegal overthrow in Ukraine and then his son got a cush job 2 months later after daddy became the new boss in town.  That’s corruption.  There’s no victims here.  Trump shouldn’t have been so hamfisted but the Bidens aren’t above scrutiny either.

I wouldn’t say I’m okay with what he did, but I think it’s absurd to suggest it warrants impeachment and removal from office.  

1. It isn’t out of the ordinary for the US to strong arm a country for what it wants.  It’s out of the ordinary for the US to strong arm a country for something specifically for the president personally, rather than what “the US” wants. 
 

2. Hunter’s probably corrupt. He’s also the source of great shame to his family, which doesn’t really like him. That doesn’t make Joe corrupt.  I’ve got a drug addict brother.  If he asked me to help him do something illegal I would probably call the police.  Same kind of idea. 

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6 hours ago, Bucky86 said:

"BADGERING THE WITNESS!!!"

Does that happen often in regular court cases?

Yes, but there is a surcharge

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23 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

2. Hunter’s probably corrupt. He’s also the source of great shame to his family, which doesn’t really like him. That doesn’t make Joe corrupt.  I’ve got a drug addict brother.  If he asked me to help him do something illegal I would probably call the police.  Same kind of idea. 

I agree that it's likely HBiden is corrupt.  What I find impossible to reconcile is the idea that Republicans are able to conclude that HBiden is corrupt despite very little actual evidence, yet somehow they become obtuse despite the mountain of evidence implicating Trump's corruption. 

It's enough to make one wonder if they are acting in good faith.

Edited by tommyGunZ
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On 12/6/2019 at 5:51 PM, Dickies said:

Mark Levin on the radio saying whoever the next Dem president is, the Republicans should file articles of impeachment the day they are sworn in.  Every caller so far thinks it’s a great idea. 

You mean like 2016????

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/11/republicans-are-already-talking-about-impeaching-clinton

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***BREAKING***

Democrats to introduce two articles of impeachment, abuse of office, obstruction, tomorrow morning. 

Link

 

Edited by Sheriff Bart
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14 minutes ago, Sheriff Bart said:

***BREAKING***

Democrats to introduce two articles of impeachment, abuse of office, obstruction, tomorrow morning. 

Link

 

Buckle up.

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23 minutes ago, Sheriff Bart said:

***BREAKING***

Democrats to introduce two articles of impeachment, abuse of office, obstruction, tomorrow morning. 

Link

 

Git er done 

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12 minutes ago, Mister CIA said:

Buckle up.

Nunes cow probably producing sour milk tonight. 

Edited by Sheriff Bart
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29 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

Who had money on Trump being impeached by 12/31?

Gonna make some scratch.

I did, so did Cos. :coffee:

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5 hours ago, adonis said:

How about having a president use his time and power to help the working class, rather than using his power to advance his own personal political interests, while adversely affecting the interests of an ally.

He is!  Greatest president of my lifetime is looking very strongly into me having to flush my toilet 10-15 times.  These are the kind of issues that Real America* cares about!

* Certainly, people in the golf resort industry don't really care about water regulations.

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It's going to be funny when the House finishes voting and the media puts' "Trump Impeached" on it's banner headlines and most of America asks the question: "I thought they impeached him already?"

Combination of the inevitability of this whole thing and Americans not understanding the process. Either way, what a mess. A mess that won't amount to anything. If Trump loses next November, it will be due to an economic downturn or a new revelation. It certainly won't be because of this.

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2 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

It's going to be funny when the House finishes voting and the media puts' "Trump Impeached" on it's banner headlines and most of America asks the question: "I thought they impeached him already?"

Combination of the inevitability of this whole thing and Americans not understanding the process. Either way, what a mess. A mess that won't amount to anything. If Trump loses next November, it will be due to an economic downturn or a new revelation. It certainly won't be because of this.

This won’t help him at all. 

Edited by timschochet

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

This won’t help him at all. 

I'm not sure. 

I don't know how many potential Trump voters there are to be swayed. 

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2 minutes ago, timschochet said:

This won’t help him at all. 

Time will tell. It doesn't look like it will hurt him either.

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11 minutes ago, moleculo said:

He is!  Greatest president of my lifetime is looking very strongly into me having to flush my toilet 10-15 times.  These are the kind of issues that Real America* cares about!

* Certainly, people in the golf resort industry don't really care about water regulations.

Hmmm, good point.

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8 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

Time will tell. It doesn't look like it will hurt him either.

With the republican base? Of course not. 

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2 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

With the republican base? Of course not. 

That wasn't changing. He could admit everything on live TV and he wouldn't lose a republican vote.

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5 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

With the republican base? Of course not. 

That hasn't been in question. Not everyone in this country is political. So with those people who aren't, it likely comes down to the mood they're in come 11/3/20. If the economy is still booming and more people feel better off than they were 4 years prior, this impeachment won't make a dent. If it's the opposite, he's likely a goner. The impeachment won't be to blame for either result.

Edited by Mr Anonymous
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Just now, Kal El said:

That wasn't changing. He could admit everything on live TV and he wouldn't lose a republican vote.

Correct, which is why he won't be removed by the Senate. I have no faith in democrats playing this right, but this picture can be painted quite clearly with actual independents in swing states. Then they can campaign on policy, which will move the needle with a not insignificant amount of those voters. Will they do that? I don't know. But it's all there for the taking. If they campaign on Trump sucks then barring something like what @Mr Anonymous just said they will probably lose though. 

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8 minutes ago, Kal El said:

That wasn't changing. He could admit everything on live TV and he wouldn't lose a republican vote.

His chief of staff already did. 

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Just now, MAC_32 said:

Correct, which is why he won't be removed by the Senate. I have no faith in democrats playing this right, but this picture can be painted quite clearly with actual independents in swing states. Then they can campaign on policy, which will move the needle with a not insignificant amount of those voters. Will they do that? I don't know. But it's all there for the taking. If they campaign on Trump sucks then barring something like what @Mr Anonymous just said they will probably lose though. 

The early returns in swing states showed the impeachment attempt has been a loser for Dems. The numbers could just as easily flip by next week. Either way, what this impeachment lacks is the big whopping moment to have a lasting effect. By February I think we're right back to where we were before this all started. The people for and against Trump will be unchanged and the people in the middle who will decide things in November will decide based on their own situation, good or bad.

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4 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

Correct, which is why he won't be removed by the Senate. I have no faith in democrats playing this right, but this picture can be painted quite clearly with actual independents in swing states. Then they can campaign on policy, which will move the needle with a not insignificant amount of those voters. Will they do that? I don't know. But it's all there for the taking. If they campaign on Trump sucks then barring something like what @Mr Anonymous just said they will probably lose though. 

I'm personally not sure about any of the Democratic candidates, but I do know that I won't be voting for Trump. I guess I might have to hold my nose and vote this year.

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Just now, Mr Anonymous said:

The early returns in swing states showed the impeachment attempt has been a loser for Dems. The numbers could just as easily flip by next week. Either way, what this impeachment lacks is the big whopping moment to have a lasting effect. By February I think we're right back to where we were before this all started. The people for and against Trump will be unchanged and the people in the middle who will decide things in November will decide based on their own situation, good or bad.

I think Kentucky was our litmus test. Actual independents are tired of Trump. They need convinced democrats will provide benefit though...however that's quantified. If that's accomplished then they will vote accordingly. 

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5 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

The early returns in swing states showed the impeachment attempt has been a loser for Dems. The numbers could just as easily flip by next week. Either way, what this impeachment lacks is the big whopping moment to have a lasting effect. By February I think we're right back to where we were before this all started. The people for and against Trump will be unchanged and the people in the middle who will decide things in November will decide based on their own situation, good or bad.

I agree with most of this but not the end.  Who the Democratic nominee is can matter.  Elections can be a popularity contest and swing voters can gravitate toward who they personally like more (or, perhaps, dislike least).

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1 minute ago, MAC_32 said:

I think Kentucky was our litmus test. Actual independents are tired of Trump. They need convinced democrats will provide benefit though...however that's quantified. If that's accomplished then they will vote accordingly. 

Could be. I was shocked to see my birth state of Wisconsin go for Trump in 2016 and just as surprised to see it flip his way in recent polls. I really does seem like no one has changed their minds.

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Just now, Juxtatarot said:

I agree with most of this but not the end.  Who the Democratic nominee is can matter.  Elections can be a popularity contest and swing voters can gravitate toward who they personally like more (or, perhaps, dislike least).

Yeah that's a good point and it shouldn't be downplayed. A good Dem candidate could be the difference. The way things look now, it would have to be someone really likable if the economy is in good shape.

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5 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

Could be. I was shocked to see my birth state of Wisconsin go for Trump in 2016 and just as surprised to see it flip his way in recent polls. I really does seem like no one has changed their minds.

What I’m wondering is if voter turnout will be higher overall (maybe even record levels).  Apathy has been rampant in recent years and the awful choices in 2016 left lots of people on the sidelines.   I feel like the last three years has broken that apathy, likely both ways. I have no data to back this up, simply a gut feeling, but I think voter turn out is going to be massive in 2020. 

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2 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

What I’m wondering is if voter turnout will be higher overall (maybe even record levels).  Apathy has been rampant in recent years and the awful choices in 2016 left lots of people on the sidelines.   I feel like the last three years has broken that apathy, likely both ways. I have no data to back this up, simply a gut feeling, but I think voter turn out is going to be massive in 2020. 

High turnout hurts Trump. Bigly.

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I hold out hope that there are Republicans with actual integrity who will put country over party.  If the case can be made that Trump is as corrupt as Hillary...well, they won't vote D but maybe they aren't all that enthused to re-elect a crook.

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Just now, Bucky86 said:

High turnout hurts Trump. Bigly.

That’s certainly possible and I generally feel the same way. But things are particularly polarized so I would not discount votes being driven his way either.  

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2 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

Could be. I was shocked to see my birth state of Wisconsin go for Trump in 2016 and just as surprised to see it flip his way in recent polls. I really does seem like no one has changed their minds.

Independents that pay any attention were well aware he was a lying, cheating scumbag well before any of this. Initially I was a little surprised the needle hadn't moved more. But once that thought entered my orbit it all made sense. 

I think they'd like to make another selection next year, but I come back to what swung Kentucky. The unpopular incumbent continued attacking voters and latched onto Trump while his competition didn't bring up impeachment and stuck to policy issues that actually effected them. Then the very red state flipped blue. 

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3 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

Independents that pay any attention were well aware he was a lying, cheating scumbag well before any of this. Initially I was a little surprised the needle hadn't moved more. But once that thought entered my orbit it all made sense. 

I think they'd like to make another selection next year, but I come back to what swung Kentucky. The unpopular incumbent continued attacking voters and latched onto Trump while his competition didn't bring up impeachment and stuck to policy issues that actually effected them. Then the very red state flipped blue. 

Bolded for importance and likely the answer to why you saw the result you did in Kentucky. Joe Biden is failing miserably in this regard.

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57 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

I'm not sure. 

I don't know how many potential Trump voters there are to be swayed. 

Part of that will depend on how he and the GOP behave during an impeachment trial.  And how Roberts responds. 

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9 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

Bolded for importance and likely the answer to why you saw the result you did in Kentucky. Joe Biden is failing miserably in this regard.

He is. Pete, however, appears to be dealing with it quite well. 

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56 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

Time will tell. It doesn't look like it will hurt him either.

You not only are hitching your wagon to Trump but also Republican Trump Congressional defenders like Gaetz, Jordan, Nunes, Gohmert,  and a bunch other obnoxious GOP jerks. Thanks but no thanks. For the first time in my life despite leaning conservative I will be voting 100% blue just to distance myself from all that garbage

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22 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

What I’m wondering is if voter turnout will be higher overall (maybe even record levels).  Apathy has been rampant in recent years and the awful choices in 2016 left lots of people on the sidelines.   I feel like the last three years has broken that apathy, likely both ways. I have no data to back this up, simply a gut feeling, but I think voter turn out is going to be massive in 2020. 

New voter registration is way up across the country.  Way too early to tell if that will translate to increased turnout almost a year away.  The bulk of new registrations are people under 40, which broke hard for Clinton in 2016 nationally.

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34 minutes ago, Bruce Dickinson said:

New voter registration is way up across the country.  Way too early to tell if that will translate to increased turnout almost a year away.  The bulk of new registrations are people under 40, which broke hard for Clinton in 2016 nationally.

Which should translate to people 44 and under now. But we shall see. 

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1 hour ago, Mr Anonymous said:

The early returns in swing states showed the impeachment attempt has been a loser for Dems.

Where are you getting this info? This site has been tracking Trump's popularity in every state, and it's not really showing much to support your claims.

For example, here is a summary of Trump's recent popularity in various swing states:

Michigan: 41%-55% (down 2% since September)
Wisconsin: 41%-55% (down 2% since September, but up 1% in the past month)
Pennsylvania: 45%-52% (same as September)
Florida: 49%-48% (up 1% since September)
Arizona: 47%-50% (down .5% since September)
North Carolina: 47%-49% (up .5% since September)

Most of these polls do not incorporate the latest impeachment news, but FiveThirtyEight has been tracking multiple impeachment polls, and they're showing that a plurality of respondents support impeachment.

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2 hours ago, Mr Anonymous said:

Could be. I was shocked to see my birth state of Wisconsin go for Trump in 2016 and just as surprised to see it flip his way in recent polls. I really does seem like no one has changed their minds.

I don't post here and now I hate myself. But I do follow along as best I can. As a Wisconsin citizen that voted for Johnson (cue the jokes), I just want to remind everyone that the DNC will be in Milwaukee next summer. There certainly could be some momentum built by the Dems in that time to move the needle, at least on a local level in a key swing state.

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4 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

With the republican base? Of course not. 

I don’t think it will impact the 2020 election at all. Trump has normalized corruption to the point that it is just accepted as real politik in America now.   

i wouldn’t have believed it was possible 5 years ago.  

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2 hours ago, zoonation said:

I don’t think it will impact the 2020 election at all. Trump has normalized corruption to the point that it is just accepted as real politik in America now.   

i wouldn’t have believed it was possible 5 years ago.  

The groundwork has been laid for many years, with the attacks on the Clintons (who for all I know may be corrupt as well), but I agree that Trump's style is bringing this very much to the forefront of things. And at least 40% don't care as long as it is their tribe "winning" (that number may be 80+% as we've not really seen whether this type of overt corruption will/would continue under a D president and likewise be dismissed by D tribesmen)  

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