beef
Footballguy
Pretty sure he could claim insanity and skip the concrete and bars for a padded room.
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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter snitwitch
- Start date
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
I don't know anyone could hear these hours and hours worth of very specific evidence, video testimony, video of the POTUS and copies of texts, the missing and redacted documents thanks to the POTUS obstructing, and can only think "NUH UH!!!!".
Seriously. How is that possible.
Seriously. How is that possible.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Seriously.
I accept that “disappointing but not disqualifying” is subjective. But to argue that Trump did nothing wrong and there’s no need to see evidence or hear from witnesses? I don’t get it.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
I really liked the part when he asked when do Senators want to learn about everything that has happened. It will all come out eventually, and there’s an option to see it all now.
joffer
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
It’s not.
Their justification for acquittal will be the Dershowitz argument: that impeachment was designed for breaking the law, and these actions don’t rise to that level.
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
All I know is that I won’t sleep at night until Hunter Biden is behind bars.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
>>Scene from a Senate hallway just now
Lindsey Graham to Adam Schiff: “Good job”
Handshake.<<
Bloomberg.
Lindsey Graham to Adam Schiff: “Good job”
Handshake.<<
Bloomberg.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
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snitwitch
Footballguy
Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
Sammy3469
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Graham's a former prosecutor as well IIRC? Probably hard not to appreciate the lawyering if you're a half-decent one yourself.
It’s almost a certainty at this point. Every once in awhile he says something in opposition to Trump. The next day he’s golfing with him and back in line for a few weeks.
Same goes with Dershowitz. A few days ago they were talking about him on CNN and they were saying that he was very hesitant to join Trumps legal team and it took a call to his wife by Trump himself to get him to change his mind.
dkp993
Footballguy
Please, I won’t rest until we get to the bottom of real problem here. The Whistleblower!
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Probably, but the Senate doesn’t really want that to happen. Republicans would look like complete idiots if Hunter Biden actually testifies.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
It’s what lawyers do when they leave court. Even with lawyers we hate.We need thisas a clickable option
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Then there's the unstated dialog:
"But it's irrelevant to the outcome of this trial."
And the word trial would be accompanied by air quotes.
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I suspect that is where many Republicans and Trump supporters are. They probably have always felt what he did was wrong just not impeachable. I think while we all know the outcome and obvious acquittal it is going to worth it for some of these Republicans to carry that ball and chain of giving Trump as pass as more is revealed, written and released in time. History is not going to be kind to them and the Republican Party. A friend of mine who does not like the President but voted for him and will likely in 2020 said Trump is the worst thing that ever happened to the Republican Party. I couldn’t agree more.
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msommer
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
This hasn’t happened yet. I really don’t think it will. Despite what you may read, the middle of the road Democrats are still in control.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Then I wish more would say this instead of pretending the president's phone call was fine, that he did not withhold aid for political gain and that the white house is not obstructing
MAC_32
Footballguy
Can't. Their primary goal is re-election. Playing parrot to the president maximizes the probability of that happening.
timschochet
Footballguy
If the purpose of the House Managers is to win over public opinion...it’s working.
https://www.people-press.org/2020/01/22/by-a-narrow-margin-americans-say-senate-trial-should-result-in-trumps-removal/
Virtually every number here is bad for Trump. The majority of Americans want Trump removed. Over 60% is convinced he did something very wrong. Nearly 70% want a fair trial with relevant witnesses. Trump’s approval rating has gone down and he’s starting to get crushed in head to head matchups in battleground states against most of the leading candidates.
The Democrats are winning.
https://www.people-press.org/2020/01/22/by-a-narrow-margin-americans-say-senate-trial-should-result-in-trumps-removal/
Virtually every number here is bad for Trump. The majority of Americans want Trump removed. Over 60% is convinced he did something very wrong. Nearly 70% want a fair trial with relevant witnesses. Trump’s approval rating has gone down and he’s starting to get crushed in head to head matchups in battleground states against most of the leading candidates.
The Democrats are winning.
timschochet
Footballguy
Meanwhile Rand Paul called John Bolton “a disgruntled fired employee with an axe to grind” and said there is no point to having him as a witness and no point to continuing the trial. He said there are currently 45 votes to dismiss and that number is growing. He went on: the only important witness to hear from is Hunter Biden but he just as soon would be done with this “nonsense”.
Several other Republican senators agreed and said that Adam Schiff is convincing nobody and only unifying the disgust about this “total waste of time.”
Several other Republican senators agreed and said that Adam Schiff is convincing nobody and only unifying the disgust about this “total waste of time.”
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
apalmer
Footballguy
As far as Trump and Trump's base are concerned, things like precedent and citations aren't important. "Sounding legal" is something lying liberals worry about. What's important is making it clear that the lawyers agree 100% with everything Trump has said, and saying it in legalese doesn't do that. Face it, you'd be hesitant to take a position 180 degrees different from what you said in a television interview a few years ago, too, but it doesn't seem to phase Dershowitz.
timschochet
Footballguy
It dropped significantly in Rasmussen. The overall numbers don’t show it yet but I suspect they will.
Remember when we were assured that this whole affair would cause Trump’s ratings to soar?
apalmer
Footballguy
Weebs210
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
Rand used to have some principal...sad to see the whole Hunter Biden narrative is still so pervasive even in the Senate and not just with the few like McConnell and Graham. Its a complete nonsense argument to claim we need to hear from Hunter Biden but not a fact witness who was there.
sho nuff
Footballguy
How so? This has yet to be actually answered...in what way is Hunter Biden's testimony relevant to Donald Trump's actions?
moleculo
Footballguy
I think this is a good point and should be reinforced. At some point, all of the documents will be out there. Trumps inner circle will speak publicly - especially once Boltons book comes out. State Department docs will be released, probably by the next administration.
When all of this is public knowledge, Republican senators will be the ones who deliberately looked the other way. Trump will go down as the most corrupt president in US history, the Senate had a chance to do something about it and balked. History will not be kind to Mitch McConnell.
apalmer
Footballguy
Paul didn't say it was. He only said that it would be important to hear from Biden. Again, the purpose is not to pursue the truth, the purpose is to feed the base what they want to believe. Feeding them Biden does that.
Percentage of voters aged 18-29 who want Trump removed from office is at 63%. That is an amazingly high number. Many of those people weren't old enough to vote in 2016. The Republicans have a HUGE demographics problem that they are making worse by blindly supporting Trump and covering up his crimes.
Let's say that Hunter was corrupt and getting loads of free cash because of his last name and his access to the VP. Of course Trump isn't interested in other corruption, but corruption involving a rival motivates him to do the "right" thing and get to the bottom of it. If R's can prove Hunter did something wrong, it at least gives a hint of a legitimate motive. Sure Hunter isn't a witness to the president's behavior, but if they can show he's a criminal and Trump was on the trail to uncover that, it definitely will sell well to lots of the public. Motive shifts from simply digging up dirt, to pursuing an investigation of illegal activity. All of us here (mostly) know this is a crock, but for people looking for a plausible answer to why Trump did all of this, this would help provide it.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
It’s not going to move them. What they’ll tell you is that young people are always liberal and they become conservative later on. In the meantime, while they’re young, they don’t vote.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Hunter could be the dirtiest person out there...and it would not make Trump's withholding of aid for that to be any more proper than it is now.
They want Hunter to testify...so the can smear him and his dad. Period. They want it...to get the same result they were getting from the Ukraine trying to investigate him.
The Commish
Footballguy
While torturing myself on the treadmill this AM at the gym, I doubled down and browsed the various news outlets this country has to offer. I haven't done this in literally years and have no idea who the people were I was watching, but the messages seem very muddled. ALL of them seem to be searching for a narrative. The closest I got to a coherent thought was Santorum on CNN who was basically saying "This doesn't rise to the level of impeachment." and "People have already decided, so no need for more witnesses". Of course they brought up 1999 Santorum saying the complete opposite. His reply? "This is different". Even Fox can't seem to figure out that their best argument is "this doesn't rise to the level of impeachment" (at least not the people who were on the screen while I was there).
IF they ever get to actually discussing witnesses and validity of them, the Dems should simply put a video on the screen of all the current GOP Senators arguing for them during Clinton after saying "This is our best argument for why we believe the witnesses are necessary".
IF they ever get to actually discussing witnesses and validity of them, the Dems should simply put a video on the screen of all the current GOP Senators arguing for them during Clinton after saying "This is our best argument for why we believe the witnesses are necessary".
TheMagus
Footballguy
I just don't understand. I keep thinking there has to be something else going on here beyond politics as usual. It doesn't make any sense. What are they so afraid of? The GOP base gets mad and primaries Rand Paul because he took this seriously? Then he gets to go to the private sector and earn millions of dollars a year. I just don't understand why they seem so desperate to defend one man who is arguably destroying the future of their party. Makes no sense.
That has shifted tremendously since Trump took office. Youngsters recognize evil and realize they can stop it. In the 2014 primaries, only 20% of eligible voters (aged 18-29) voted. In 2018, that number nearly doubled (36%). This a humongous problem for the Republican party. Especially when it seems every action they take is for the good of the 38% percent of Trump's base who were voting Republican any way.
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