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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (11 Viewers)

How about "no", you crazy, Dutch *******

Dutch Trump superfan who claimed he surveilled Ambassador Yovanovitch told people he was DEA.

WASHINGTON — The Dutch man who claimed to have Marie Yovanovitch under surveillance when she was the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine has been masquerading as a U.S. federal law enforcement officer and told people he was starting a tech company that could track movements electronically, according to interviews and documents obtained by NBC News.

And despite saying he had "no connection" to Ukraine, the man, Anthony de Caluwe, was romantically involved with a Ukrainian woman, who returns regularly to her home country, at the same time in early 2019 that he sent text messages about Yovanovitch's purported whereabouts in Kyiv, according to two people who know de Caluwe and photographs obtained by NBC News...
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Dickies said:
CNN reporting that the WH has issued a “formal threat” to Bolton to keep him from publishing his book. 
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I heard yesterday that Bolton submitted the information that was going to be in the book a year(?) ago requesting permission and to flag anything he couldn't publish and nothing was redacted. 

 
Dickies said:
CNN reporting that the WH has issued a “formal threat” to Bolton to keep him from publishing his book. 
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Bucky86 said:
Lev seems to be hinting that Graham was in the loop. :popcorn:
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You know what would clear this all up? Letting people speak. Let's hear from Rudy, Barr, Pompeo, Parnas, Bolton. Instead we have the WH doing everything in its power (and some beyond) trying to keep these people with first hand knowledge from testifying under oath.

And to @stlrams concerns about not seeing the actual manuscript - you know who has seen it? The White House. And they are doing everything they can to keep us from seeing it. I may be wrong, but I don't think the reason is because the book/Bolton totally exonerate Trump.

If Trump was really interested in fighting corruption, he'd resign himself.

 
Amused to Death said:
You know what would clear this all up? Letting people speak. Let's hear from Rudy, Barr, Pompeo, Parnas, Bolton. Instead we have the WH doing everything in its power (and some beyond) trying to keep these people with first hand knowledge from testifying under oath.

And to @stlrams concerns about not seeing the actual manuscript - you know who has seen it? The White House. And they are doing everything they can to keep us from seeing it. I may be wrong, but I don't think the reason is because the book/Bolton totally exonerate Trump.

If Trump was really interested in fighting corruption, he'd resign himself.
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Don’t forget Trump himself. 

 
Joe Summer said:
I don't see how it matters if Lindsey Graham knew about anything. His Senate seat is safe.
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It matters in the long run as the country separates into those who excuse his kind of behavior and those who don't. For the latter to ultimately prevail, misdeeds must be brought to light, even if it appears that the immediate effect is negligible.

 
zoonation said:
Mitch will get this done.  Amazing.
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Trump owns the GOP and they all know it.  They're forced to defend him to the very end.  If he goes, it burns down everything they've spent their careers doing.  The rest of the GOP is basically a rudderless ship, but it's still seaworthy, at least for now.  

 
urbanhack said:
Good thing Trump supporters wanted to bring an outsider to DC and change the political landscape that so many people despised over the last few decades.  It's only gotten worse...but they will never see it.
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*an outsider with a history of shady business dealings and mob ties. What could possibly go wrong?

 
Following the voting down of witnesses, there will be a debate prior to the acquittal. But this debate will be done in private; the public doesn’t get to hear it. 

 
This whole thing is so bizarre and seemingly everyone is corrupt that all the major actors should be forced to testify under oath:  Trump, Biden, Biden's son, Pence, Rudy, Mulvaney, Bolton, Pompeo, Parnas, Graham, Nunes and a few others that I am sure I left out.

Let's get to the bottom of this and let the chips fall where they may.

 
timschochet said:
Following the voting down of witnesses, there will be a debate prior to the acquittal. But this debate will be done in private; the public doesn’t get to hear it. 
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Probably for our own good.  I mean what good could come out of us hearing such a debate, other than being informed, and who wants that, government conducted in the light of day?

I am certain they will say court deliberations are conducted in private, but this matter, an Impeachment matter, well it is not wholly analogous to court proceedings as it is so inherently a matter of public concern.  

 
JuniorNB said:
In the long run, that will help the Democrats more than having them.

Even with witnesses, no matter how damaging Bolton's testimony is, there's still a 0% chance that enough GOP Senators vote to remove him from office.  So the ones who are in swing states and in jeopardy of losing their seats in November will be 'allowed' to vote for removal, because McConnell knows he easily has the numbers. 

But if those same swing state senators vote for no witnesses, their opponents will have a field day with ads calling them out on their cover-up cooperation.  

Losing Senate seats would be brutal for the GOP. 
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Maybe that happens with some Senate seats. But we'd still be left with the problem, if Trump is not removed from office, of no punishment for Trump for illegally manipulating the Presidential election, and no mitigation of the improprieties he engaged in. He collaborated with the Russians to corrupt the electoral process in 2016 and went unpunished for that and other illegal doings during that campaign. He's illegally influencing the election again now for 2020. If he goes unpunished again, if the integrity of our elections is not protected, he'll cheat his way into another illegitimate term. Possibly swapping some Senate seats isn't enough of a silver lining in that scenario.

 
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Godsbrother said:
This whole thing is so bizarre and seemingly everyone is corrupt that all the major actors should be forced to testify under oath:  Trump, Biden, Biden's son, Pence, Rudy, Mulvaney, Bolton, Pompeo, Parnas, Graham, Nunes and a few others that I am sure I left out.

Let's get to the bottom of this and let the chips fall where they may.
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Works for me.  And as long as we are interviewing the Bidens, let's be sure to investigate EVERY senator's children, spouse, and siblings who has ANY income from ANY source that SEEMS suspicious.  

 
timschochet said:
Not impressed. It’s like Trump getting Juanita Broaderick a ticket to his debate with Hillary. Grandstanding. 
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Agreed. It might be effective but don’t play their game. Schiff did it with the ‘Trump as a mob boss’ transcript read and they still haven’t stopped talking about it. Don’t give them more ammo.

 
Henry Ford said:
801(d) Statements That Are Not Hearsay. A statement that meets the following conditions is not hearsay:

(2) An Opposing Party’s Statement. The statement is offered against an opposing party and:

(A) was made by the party in an individual or representative capacity;

(B) is one the party manifested that it adopted or believed to be true;

(C) was made by a person whom the party authorized to make a statement on the subject;

(D) was made by the party’s agent or employee on a matter within the scope of that relationship and while it existed; or

(E) was made by the party’s coconspirator during and in furtherance of the conspiracy.

803 The following are not excluded by the rule against hearsay, regardless of whether the declarant is available as a witness:

(3) Then-Existing Mental, Emotional, or Physical Condition.A statement of the declarant’s then-existing state of mind (such as motive, intent, or plan) or emotional, sensory, or physical condition (such as mental feeling, pain, or bodily health), but not including a statement of memory or belief to prove the fact remembered or believed unless it relates to the validity or terms of the declarant’s will.
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Right. There may be exceptions are, arguably, Bolton's manuscript isn't hearsay. 

My point though is that, generally speaking, the manuscript is likely an out of court statement being offered for the truth of the matter asserted. And this sort of evidence is used in administrative-type hearings like this one all the time, would likely be admissible, and it is disingenuous to just outright dismiss the content as "hearsay." I wouldn't have a problem with somebody saying it should be given less weight, but the claim that the Bolton stuff shouldn't be considered because it's hearsay until the manuscript is produced is silly. 

 
Morton Muffley said:
Works for me.  And as long as we are interviewing the Bidens, let's be sure to investigate EVERY senator's children, spouse, and siblings who has ANY income from ANY source that SEEMS suspicious.  
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I hope our national security agencies are doing just that.  Congress does not need to get involved until and unless the suspicion rises to at least probable cause if not something greater, and only in those instances where there are not adequate remedies elsewhere at law, but yes, lets do this.

 
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Joe Summer said:
I don't see how it matters if Lindsey Graham knew about anything. His Senate seat is safe.
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He’s currently only a couple points ahead in the polls. If there’s a bloodbath in November, he could be part of it. Not likely to happen but I’m sure there will be a ton of money thrown behind his opponent.

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
I hope our national security agencies are doing just that.  Congress does not need to get involved until and unless the suspicion rises to at least probable cause if not something greater, and only in those instances where there are not adequate remedies elsewhere at law, but yes, lets do this.
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agree with the bold.  we have a process for this already.  those asking for the inclusion of the bidens in this clownshow are (whether intentional or not) doing the president's bidding

 
Sweet J said:
Sometimes I picture you and @Ditkaless Wonders as Brad Pitt and Ed Norton in fight club, asking questions and answering them.  Interactions like this make it even better. 
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Aaron

I presume I am Ed Norton and HF is Brad Pitt.  What I want to know is who is Helena Bonham Carter.  I find her very attractive, so attractive, in fact, that I got a bit excited by her in Planet of the Apes.

 
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So if the POTUS ordered investigations into, say, Oprah, it would be totally legit because there would be public interest?  Because as far as I know there isn't anything Hunter has been accused of other than being the benefit of nepotism. Like Trump’s kids and SIL. 

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
Aaron

I presume I am Ed Norton and HF is Brad Pitt.  what I want to know is who is Helena Bonham Carter.  I find he very attractive, so attractive, in fact, that I got a bit excited by her in Planet of the Apes.
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Well, that's the conundrum, isn't it.  If I knew that, I figure I'd know enough other stuff to make me a millionaire. 

 
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