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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread***

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3 hours ago, tonydead said:

If they try impeachment the entire election will rest on how well that turns out.  

Well we know the Senate will refuse to remove him from office.  If the House does its duty and formally impeaches him it will boil down to how much criminal activity the electorate can ignore.

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10 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:
16 minutes ago, snitwitch said:

hitler also hated the free press. just sayin'

Yup.  He also knew that the first step in fooling his followers was to have them think all negative news was fake and to discredit the country's establishments like intelligence and investigative agencies. The parallels are amazing. Like they're using the same textbook

Guys, you can't make this comparison until there is actual genocide.  We've been over this. 

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WSJ says Trump pressed Zelensky 8 times to work with Guiliani on a probe of Biden's son.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-defends-conversation-with-ukraine-leader-11568993176?mod=hp_lead_pos1

 

Quote

Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine President to Investigate Biden’s Son
President didn’t mention U.S. aid on July call with Volodymyr Zelensky

By Alan Cullison, Rebecca Ballhaus and Dustin Volz
Updated Sept. 20, 2019 3:32 pm ET

President Trump in a July phone call repeatedly pressured the president of Ukraine to investigate Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden ’s son, urging Volodymyr Zelensky about eight times to work with Rudy Giuliani, his personal lawyer, on a probe, according to people familiar with the matter.

“He told him that he should work with [Mr. Giuliani] on Biden, and that people in Washington wanted to know” whether allegations were true or not, one of the people said. Mr. Trump didn’t mention a provision of foreign aid to Ukraine on the call, said this person, who didn’t believe Mr. Trump offered the Ukrainian president any quid-pro-quo for his cooperation on an investigation.

Mr. Giuliani in June and August met with top Ukrainian officials about the prospect of an investigation, he said in an interview. The Trump lawyer has suggested Mr. Biden as vice president worked to shield from investigation a Ukrainian gas company with ties to his son, Hunter Biden. A Ukrainian official earlier this year said he had no evidence of wrongdoing by Mr. Biden or his son.

After the July call between the two presidents, the Ukrainian government said Mr. Trump had congratulated the new president on his election and expressed hope that his government would push ahead with investigations and corruption probes that had stymied relations between the two countries.

The White House declined to comment. The Biden campaign didn’t respond to a request for comment. Last week, a Biden campaign spokesman said of Mr. Giuliani’s efforts to pressure Ukraine: “This is beneath us as Americans.”

Mr. Trump on Friday defended his July call with Mr. Zelensky as “totally appropriate” but declined to say whether he had asked the Ukrainian leader to investigate Mr. Biden, a former U.S. vice president. “It doesn’t matter what I discussed,” he said.

At the same time, he reiterated his call for an investigation into Mr. Biden’s effort as vice president to oust Ukraine’s prosecutor general. “Somebody ought to look into that," he told reporters.

In recent months, Mr. Giuliani has mounted an extensive effort to pressure Ukraine to do so. He told The Wall Street Journal he met with an official from the Ukrainian prosecutor general’s office in June in Paris, and met with Andriy Yermak, a top aide to Mr. Zelensky in Madrid in August. Mr. Giuliani told the Journal earlier this month that Mr. Yermak assured him the Ukrainian government would “get to the bottom” of the Biden matter.

The August meeting came weeks before the Trump administration began reviewing the status of $250 million in foreign aid to Ukraine, which the administration released earlier this month. Mr. Giuliani said he wasn’t aware of the issue with the funds to Ukraine at the time of the meeting.

He said his meeting with Mr. Yermak was set up by the State Department, and said he briefed the department on their conversation later. The State Department had no immediate comment.

The interactions between the president, Mr. Giuliani and Ukraine have come under scrutiny in recent days in the wake of a whistleblower complaint that a person familiar with the matter said involves the president’s communications with a foreign leader. The complaint, which the Washington Post reported centers on Ukraine, has prompted a new standoff between Congress and the executive branch.

Separately, lawmakers have been investigating whether the president or his lawyer sought to pressure the Ukrainian government to pursue probes in an effort to benefit Mr. Trump’s re-election bid.

 

Edited by Don Quixote
ETA Article
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4 minutes ago, zoonation said:

It occurs to me that the Trump machine has exponentially more resources to #### with the election now than it did in 2016.  

Trump leaning on the Ukraine to sink Joe’s ship is only the beginning.  We are 58 weeks out still.  

Oh.  And what has been done to safeguard American democracy from foreign interference in elections?  Nothing.  

Trump Has neutered  Washington and is just getting started.   

In the Lewandowski hearing the other day a republican, forget which one for certain, declared that Trump cares more about protecting our elections than anyone. :mellow:

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19 hours ago, Sinn Fein said:

It sounds, to me, that Schiff knows exactly what is in the allegations - but is going through the motions to get the report through official channels.

 

 

But - if there is a tape of Trump offering financial aid in exchange for an investigation into Biden - I think that is well beyond what DC politicians would tolerate. 

 

But, if there is no tape, or if its kind of wishy-washy read-between-the-lines kind of stuff, then this goes nowhere.

:lmao: How could you possibly have any confidence in Schiff?  His history of being correct is abismal.  He is a lying partisan hack.

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4 minutes ago, Don Quixote said:

WSJ says Trump pressed Zelensky 8 times to work with Guiliani on a probe of Biden's son.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-defends-conversation-with-ukraine-leader-11568993176?mod=hp_lead_pos1

 

 

The Wall Street Journal?? You're going to believe that liberal rag? :hophead:

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10 minutes ago, zoonation said:

It occurs to me that the Trump machine has exponentially more resources to #### with the election now than it did in 2016.  

Trump leaning on the Ukraine to sink Joe’s ship is only the beginning.  We are 58 weeks out still.  

Oh.  And what has been done to safeguard American democracy from foreign interference in elections?  Nothing.  

Trump Has neutered  Washington and is just getting started.   

I think he's got a lot bigger pile of cash this time than he did in '16. He'll have no trouble getting the message out while saving plenty for his own enrichment (come on, we know that's gonna happen). A candidate of competency and integrity would not be able to blow Donald's apparent advantage.

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5 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

I think he's got a lot bigger pile of cash this time than he did in '16. He'll have no trouble getting the message out while saving plenty for his own enrichment (come on, we know that's gonna happen). A candidate of competency and integrity would not be able to blow Donald's apparent advantage.

Yeah.  He has raked in hundreds of millions so far.  No way he doesn’t siphon off some of that.  It is in his DNA.   His supporters won’t care though.  

I remember in 2016 when his campaign was broke and he had to personally lend it a million dollars.  Conditions were that it had to be repaid immediately.  Forget the details of the piece I read on it but it made me think then that there is no way this guy is a billionaire.  The million was SO significant to him.  

Edited by zoonation

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12 minutes ago, Don Quixote said:

WSJ says Trump pressed Zelensky 8 times to work with Guiliani on a probe of Biden's son.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-defends-conversation-with-ukraine-leader-11568993176?mod=hp_lead_pos1

 

 

I dunno...it really seems unlikely Trump would ask a foreign country to interfere in our elections.

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8 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

:lmao: How could you possibly have any confidence in Schiff?  His history of being correct is abismal.  He is a lying partisan hack.

Not saying you are wrong here - but this seems like the worst kept secret in DC, given how much reporting on this has seemingly gushed out since the story broke.  Hell, the AP reporter asked Pence point-blank if he discussed Biden when he talked to Ukraine last week.

 

 

As someone posted above - it becomes a question of who do you believe: The fake Media who claim Trump is asking Ukraine to investigate Biden; or, Rudy Giuliani who admits that Trump is asking Ukraine to investigate Biden.

Its a tough choice....

 

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4 minutes ago, JbizzleMan said:

I dunno...it really seems unlikely Trump would ask a foreign country to interfere in our elections.

Its more like a 400-lb guy in the basement of some golf club in New Jersey.

amirite?  :hifive:

 

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13 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

:lmao: How could you possibly have any confidence in Schiff?  His history of being correct is abismal.  He is a lying partisan hack.

He's still infinitely more credible than Donald Trump.

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Seems that the Trump machine isn’t showing much concern about this all but seems to me if the tape ( if there is one) reveals withholding the 250 million was part of this conversation this could be just a bit too much for some Republicans but I have been wrong about this before. 

 

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Just now, lazyike said:

Seems that the Trump machine isn’t showing much concern about this all but seems to me if the tape ( if there is one) reveals withholding the 250 million was part of this conversation this could be just a bit too much for some Republicans but I have been wrong about this before. 

 

awww, how cute...

;)

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1 minute ago, lazyike said:

Seems that the Trump machine isn’t showing much concern about this all but seems to me if the tape ( if there is one) reveals withholding the 250 million was part of this conversation this could be just a bit too much for some Republicans but I have been wrong about this before. 

 

Aid being part of the conversation on the tape isn't necessary for me.  The White House placed a hold on the aid.  It's not hard to put two and two together. If your boss told you to do something 8 times, he probably would not have to add "or you're fired" after it.

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11 minutes ago, lazyike said:

Seems that the Trump machine isn’t showing much concern about this all but seems to me if the tape ( if there is one) reveals withholding the 250 million was part of this conversation this could be just a bit too much for some Republicans but I have been wrong about this before. 

 

The Senate of 2019 would not have convicted Nixon.

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17 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

The Senate of 2019 would not have convicted Nixon.

And the chances are the House wouldn't have impeached either...it's quite remarkable how far we've fallen.

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1 hour ago, Sheriff Bart said:

Guys, you can't make this comparison until there is actual genocide.  We've been over this. 

Do brown babies dying in cages count?

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Just now, JuniorNB said:

Do brown babies dying in cages count?

only in the millions. 

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1 hour ago, Don't Noonan said:

:lmao: How could you possibly have any confidence in Schiff?  His history of being correct is abismal.  He is a lying partisan hack.

Proof?

Trump’s the one that’s stopping the whistleblower, not Schiff :shrug: 

Don’t you want the truth to come out?

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8 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Do brown babies dying in cages count?

Probably not.  

But maybe when they are 3-4 they start to count.

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54 minutes ago, apalmer said:

He's still infinitely more credible than Donald Trump.

There is no one less credible than Trump perhaps in the past 2000 years

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1 hour ago, zoonation said:

Yeah.  He has raked in hundreds of millions so far.  No way he doesn’t siphon off some of that.  It is in his DNA.   His supporters won’t care though.  

I remember in 2016 when his campaign was broke and he had to personally lend it a million dollars.  Conditions were that it had to be repaid immediately.  Forget the details of the piece I read on it but it made me think then that there is no way this guy is a billionaire.  The million was SO significant to him.  

When Bart & Lisa were sucked into the vacuum that were the Movementarians, Marge and Neddy came up  with a clever solution to break the spell.  Hover bikes.  Now, were the Simpsons children disappointed when they learned they were duped by their mother?  Sure.  They also realized it was for their own good.  We need a democrat with hover bikes and then once in office pass some strict laws to stop this from ever happening again.

Edited by Sheriff Bart
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7 minutes ago, Sammy3469 said:

Proof?

Trump’s the one that’s stopping the whistleblower, not Schiff :shrug: 

Don’t you want the truth to come out?

He can't handle the truth.

 

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12 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

He can't handle the truth.

 

I can’t wait for the parsing of what 8 times really means and how it’s really 6, no 4, no 1, no 0, no Biden is really the bad guy and Trump has the duty, no obligation to investigate.  

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I'd like to go on record saying it's possible, likely even, that Hunter Biden was improperly using his father's connections and influence to enrich himself.

That pales in comparison to Trump using the weight of the US Government to manipulate a foreign government into tarnishing his political opponent.

Not to mention: there is nothing Hunter Biden could have possibly done that is less shady than the #### pulled by either DJTJr, Kushner, or Ivanka.

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Also, LOL at Trump rooting out corruption.

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34 minutes ago, moleculo said:

I'd like to go on record saying it's possible, likely even, that Hunter Biden was improperly using his father's connections and influence to enrich himself.

That pales in comparison to Trump using the weight of the US Government to manipulate a foreign government into tarnishing his political opponent.

Not to mention: there is nothing Hunter Biden could have possibly done that is less shady than the #### pulled by either DJTJr, Kushner, or Ivanka.

We've seen a rich history of foreign governments influencing US politics through "business dealings" with their children.  Nice, easy way to keep a political distance and at the same time peddle influence.  Hunter Biden got the deal of a lifetime in China - something that should have been looked into years ago.  No surprise that we see the same influence peddling in Ukraine.  

I fully support the whistleblower here - let him testify.  Let's see Joe and Hunter in front of Congress to explain this, as well.  There is a deep, deep well here to explore.

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7 minutes ago, Sand said:

I fully support the whistleblower here - let him testify.  Let's see Joe and Hunter in front of Congress to explain this, as well.  There is a deep, deep well here to explore

I think most people agree with this, except those that are doing everything in their power to keep it out of the hands of Congress.

Why would they do that?

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2 hours ago, Sammy3469 said:

Proof?

Trump’s the one that’s stopping the whistleblower, not Schiff :shrug: 

Don’t you want the truth to come out?

The tape will come out

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If I am reading this article correctly: 

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/09/20/politics/wsj-trump-ukraine-calls-biden-investigation-giuliani/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F

then Trump was careful not to mention any specific quid pro quo in the phone call. 

If that is the case, then in my judgment, he will get away with this. 

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2 hours ago, lazyike said:

Seems that the Trump machine isn’t showing much concern about this all but seems to me if the tape ( if there is one) reveals withholding the 250 million was part of this conversation this could be just a bit too much for some Republicans but I have been wrong about this before. 

 

Need to apologize for my lack in common sense here, broke my arm yesterday and am waiting for surgery on Monday and on pain medication (hydro condone)which has me thinking irrational. Upon further review I remember that GOP Senators and Representatives only want to get re-elected and seeing how 90% GOP voters don’t give a rat’s a$& or even know what Trump say or does I renege the previous post completely 

Edited by lazyike
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11 minutes ago, timschochet said:

If I am reading this article correctly: 

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/09/20/politics/wsj-trump-ukraine-calls-biden-investigation-giuliani/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F

then Trump was careful not to mention any specific quid pro quo in the phone call. 

If that is the case, then in my judgment, he will get away with this. 

Because congressional Democrats are spineless. This is absolutely ridiculous.  Pelosi et.al. are setting a precedent whereby literally nothing is impeachable.

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1 hour ago, moleculo said:

I'd like to go on record saying it's possible, likely even, that Hunter Biden was improperly using his father's connections and influence to enrich himself.

He seems to have violated traditional norms rather than laws.

I really want to urge respect for traditional norms until we can codify them into law, so this is a knock against the Biden family. But nothing that should change anybody's mind in a Biden-vs-Trump matchup.

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Just now, IvanKaramazov said:

Because congressional Democrats are spineless. This is absolutely ridiculous.  Pelosi et.al. are setting a precedent whereby literally nothing is impeachable.

This is true but it’s not only that. 

Suppose in the Watergate  tapes, Nixon had never directly said anything about paying people off? Suppose he carefully had listened, neither approved nor disapproved, and made general comments only? IMO, he never would have resigned and never would have been impeached. He would have argued that he didn’t understand, or that he himself was misunderstood, etc. 

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On an optimistic note, maybe this will bring down Trump and Biden both and leave us with a decent choice of 2020 Dem presidential candidates.  Enough with the racist, rich, clueless old white man as president motif. 

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17 minutes ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

He seems to have violated traditional norms rather than laws.

I really want to urge respect for traditional norms until we can codify them into law, so this is a knock against the Biden family. But nothing that should change anybody's mind in a Biden-vs-Trump matchup.

The New Yorker had a very unflattering article about Hunter. He has a long history of really bad life decisions. 

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8 minutes ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

Biden hasn't won the nomination yet.  In fact you can get him at ~3/1 as the Dem nominee.

Warren's at ~3/2.

I’ve probably been the biggest Biden booster in this forum ( that despite the fact I’ve never loved the guy and he isn’t my first or second choice.) But this story could change my mind completely. Last thing we need is another Hillary email mess hanging over our heads all through election year. 

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11 minutes ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

Biden hasn't won the nomination yet.  In fact you can get him at ~3/1 as the Dem nominee.

Warren's at ~3/2.

I am guessing part of the deal was to launch the investigation after Biden got the nomination...

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2 hours ago, lazyike said:

There is no one less credible than Trump perhaps in the past 2000 years

Is this a Jesus joke? This feels like an attack on Jesus. 

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37 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Is this a Jesus joke? This feels like an attack on Jesus. 

I thought Judas.

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

I’ve probably been the biggest Biden booster in this forum ( that despite the fact I’ve never loved the guy and he isn’t my first or second choice.) But this story could change my mind completely. Last thing we need is another Hillary email mess hanging over our heads all through election year. 

Let me say first of all that reporters, pundits and candidates - even Biden and his team - who get into the weeds of this are doing Trump's work. I say that because from what I can tell there is absolutely no event to debate here. I don't mean 'IMO', I mean there is no event at all underlying this claim specifically about Hunter Biden. Lutsenko, who was in charge when Biden came, Kasko, who was in charge when it was happening, and the current prosecutor, all say there is no actual case. Kasko says the case was closed since 2014. Hunter Biden did not even join the board until months after the UK first initiated the claim that led to the investigation.

Quote

 

...at the time Biden made his ultimatum, the probe into the company -- Burisma Holdings, owned by Mykola Zlochevsky -- had been long dormant, according to the former official, Vitaliy Kasko.

“There was no pressure from anyone from the U.S. to close cases against Zlochevsky,” Kasko said in an interview last week. “It was shelved by Ukrainian prosecutors in 2014 and through 2015.”

Bloomberg.

The case had been dormant two years by the time Biden showed to talk about the very genuine issue of Ukrainian corruption.

Some more detail.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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