You can bet that Trump/Barr and the gang will do anything they can to squash his first amendment rights. Don't be surprised if they put a gag order on him also.
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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter snitwitch
- Start date
Jackstraw
Footballguy
I think you also have to acknowledge that a decent portion of the 75% wanting witnesses were republicans wanting Hunter and Joe as witnesses.
Even better point than the one I made! I don't think there's any real reason to hope that the lack of witnesses is going to impact elections in a positive way. What I DO think could have a small (but potentially critical) impact will be the steady drip of additional information coming out.
TheMagus
Footballguy
I think it's time for the Democrats to start calling in favors since the US government has now said there is nothing wrong with doing so. I'm sure Obama knows some folks. I mean let's be real here. If there are international criminal acts to be uncovered by foreign governments, they aren't going to be about the candidates running on the Democratic side.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Recordings from other countries' intelligence agencies would be a good place to start.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
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Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
I frankly am starting to feel bad or embarrassed for democrats...I'ts like watching the Tampa Bay Buccaneers 0-26 losing streak of the mid 70's
Mile High
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Is 2019 = 1977? Eh the Bucs made the playoffs just 2 years after. So... entering the White House in 2021 looks good. I'll take it.
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
the moops
Footballguy
Jackstraw
Footballguy
Mile High
Footballguy
Jackstraw
Footballguy
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
I wish I could share your and @timschochet optism but I think you are both giving the public way too much credit.
The good news is I no longer fear cancer.
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moleculo
Footballguy
party over country, right? It's all a game - morals, ethics, laws don't really count as long as democrats can take the "L". Yay GOP!
whoknew
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
This is the nation's 16th impeachment trial and it is the first one without witnesses.
ren hoek
Footballguy
https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1223025756764299264
Asked whether, under the Dems' impeachment standard, the Clinton campaign's solicitation of the Steele dossier would be considered foreign interference, illegal, or impeachable, @RepJeffries says no -- because the Steele dossier "was purchased."
This captures just one aspect of why this impeachment is so hypocritical/dumb. The same camp hyperventilating about "foreign interference in our democracy" paid for a fictional foreign dossier that fueled surveillance of a campaign & 3 years of all-consuming conspiracy theories.
Had Clinton won, would that have undermined the legitimacy of her victory, and, additionally, been impeachable? Under the Dems' (moronic) standard, you would think so. But nope, they argue: it wouldn't... because Clinton paid for it.
Asked whether, under the Dems' impeachment standard, the Clinton campaign's solicitation of the Steele dossier would be considered foreign interference, illegal, or impeachable, @RepJeffries says no -- because the Steele dossier "was purchased."
This captures just one aspect of why this impeachment is so hypocritical/dumb. The same camp hyperventilating about "foreign interference in our democracy" paid for a fictional foreign dossier that fueled surveillance of a campaign & 3 years of all-consuming conspiracy theories.
Had Clinton won, would that have undermined the legitimacy of her victory, and, additionally, been impeachable? Under the Dems' (moronic) standard, you would think so. But nope, they argue: it wouldn't... because Clinton paid for it.
So pretty much the same assumptions this forum makes about Republicans. The more I see the way arguements are framed with the attempts to shame Repubicans, the more I want to support Trump. This forum is convinced the arguments to impeach and remove Trump are so overwhelming that only liars or brainwashed fools can not support it. But yet only half the people in this country support the impeachment. Maybe the framing is not so good. It certainly is not effective in convincing people to flip.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Let's see how Trump is doing compared to his campaign promises
Mexico paying for wall= FAIL
Destroy ISIS= FAIL
Halt funding sanctuary cities= FAIL
Too hard working to golf= FAIL
$4000 pay raise for average families= FAIL
End North Korea nuke program= FAIL
Protect American steel jobs= FAIL
Bring back 50,000 coal jobs= FAIL
Eliminate Federal deficit= FAIL
Bring down the debt= FAIL
Repeal Obamacare= FAIL
Visions of Dewey Selmon and John McKay
Current state of the country:
Local Fox affiliate posts a story about Alexander’s statement on Facebook. Their headline focuses on the part of the statement where he said the impeachment was rushed and partisan.
One person in the comment posts a partial screenshot of his 3rd tweet in the statement where he states that there’s no need for more evidence because House managers proved the quid-pro-quo (paraphrasing). He first gets called out because the initial tweet was only a partial retweet, so he posts the complete tweet from Alexander’s statement. They then call it out as fake and some going as far as saying they looked and couldn’t find it. He then states that he’s a Republican and believed in country over party. That results in him being called out as a fake profile and no Republican would say that.
There’s no need for Russia to have a troll farm for this election, there’s plenty of US citizens doing their work for them.
Local Fox affiliate posts a story about Alexander’s statement on Facebook. Their headline focuses on the part of the statement where he said the impeachment was rushed and partisan.
One person in the comment posts a partial screenshot of his 3rd tweet in the statement where he states that there’s no need for more evidence because House managers proved the quid-pro-quo (paraphrasing). He first gets called out because the initial tweet was only a partial retweet, so he posts the complete tweet from Alexander’s statement. They then call it out as fake and some going as far as saying they looked and couldn’t find it. He then states that he’s a Republican and believed in country over party. That results in him being called out as a fake profile and no Republican would say that.
There’s no need for Russia to have a troll farm for this election, there’s plenty of US citizens doing their work for them.
The Commish
Footballguy
I guess Trump's on the fail-boat, huh?
This joke has been brought to you by Dads everywhere.
But there is no correct answer. That is why framing it as if there was and insulting everyone who disagrees is a terrible way to try to win the debate. It is an opinion.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Lol someone figured this out.
Pompeo's own staff (or Trump's, whoever wrote that crap) confused Belarus for Bangladesh.
At the Department of State.
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Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I wish I shared his optimism, but I can't help but think you're right.
Trump will win going away this fall. GOP will hold the Senate easily. Trump may lose popular vote even more than 2016, but he'll be re-elected.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Subtext here is Alexander is claiming the House was both rushed, because they weren't patient enough to gather all the evidence, annnddd they also have proved with enough evidence that Trump did everything he's accused of, so no witnesses are needed.
And the ridiculous thing is he does not understand the world he is living in. Trumpers will assail him and his family anyway. Trump doesn't give two flips about his statement of guilt. And Dems and Indies will forever view him as a disgrace, his name forever linked to a footnote of shame in history.
The Commish
Footballguy
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Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I'm confused. If you believe it is all opinion and there is no correct answer, why did you originally infer that Democratic Senators voting for impeachment were doing so dishonestly?
moleculo
Footballguy
weird. It's almost as if quid pro quo is ok if the quid is private but not ok if public.
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Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I'm a pretty independent voter, and I'm not entirely enamored with the Democratic Party, but thank goodness my two senators and my house rep are all Democrats who are on the right side of this debacle. I feel bad for those of you in states/districts if your elected officials are going against the majority of their constituents in not calling for witnesses.
moleculo
Footballguy
please tell me - what argument should have been made? After seeing blatant corruption and seeing republicans called out for it, you want to support them more. I don't get it. What should the democrats have done to convince you that wrong, unethical behavior should not be supported?
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Fwiw this is how corrupt people justify corruption, private and public is comingled like they're the same. I heard an Edwin Edwards sycophant once explain that there's nothing wrong with having cash and there's nothing wrong with influencing with cash because it's just free speech.
parrot
Footballguy
You could say that only fools and liars wouldn't want to hear from an ex-cabinet member who claims to have knowledge on the subject. And yes, this is your cue to bring up that the house didn't take the time to run it through the courts. Doesn't change the fact that the GOP Senators have no interest in finding the truth of the matter. Maintaining some level of plausible deniability for the President is their only goal in this thing. This despite taking a vow to be impartial. So yeah, they're liars for sure. I hope election results show them to be fools as well, but I don't have a lot of faith in that.
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Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
If my favorite sports team won the championship and I find out later that they cheated to get there it would depress me, not bring me joy. So I just can't relate to the people high-fiving each other in the Trump HQ thread.
Patriots fans fall into this category.
Also Astros and Red Sox fans.
Patriots fans fall into this category.
Also Astros and Red Sox fans.
timschochet
Footballguy
Could happen. And if it does I’ll be tremendously disappointed, and then move on.
But there’s no reason I can see to be pessimistic beforehand. Trump barely won in 2016 and his support has not increased. Democrats are energized and highly motivated. Independents are going to be very angered by this coverup and other events. All the numbers, all the facts are on our side. That doesn’t guarantee a thing of course, but why not be positive?
You don't want to hear this, but what they should have done is removed Bill Clinton from office. Now the GOP is just recycling many of the same positions the Democrats took two decades ago and the downward spiral continues. Stop trying to blame and shame the other side. Take some shared responsibility for where we are today, but make the case that we must draw the line in the sand or this state of corruption will only get worse.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Well, that’s not going to happen. But maybe enough of them to make a difference.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Because the Democrats have to nominate an actual candidate to run against Trump, and the people most likely be nominated are terrible. It's like our political parties completely lost the ability to select reasonable candidates.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Maybe. Maybe Bolton would have taken the stand and said nothing and plugged his book. We’ll never know.
Zow
Footballguy
The term "terrible" is an objective one. Compared to Obama or even Bush, the Democratic candidates may seem terrible. But they won't be running against that type of person. They will be running against Donald Trump. Not only the worst president in US history, but a truly horrible person. So these terrible candidates would all be 100x better than than what we have.
The Commish
Footballguy
Well, we finally agree on something. Our politicians have established that it's ok to lie under oath and it's ok to use the office of President for personal gain. I've been pretty consistent and think both are a failure of our democracy. What I haven't done, in either instance, is play the "what about" game. I don't see the point and I don't understand why you guys do it.
The only thing left to do, once again, is make sure our feelings are made known this election cycle. Not because this is the way it should be, but because this is the way it has to be since our politicians won't do their jobs.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
The argument that Trump did what he’s accused of is so overwhelming that only those categories can deny it. He violated the law and used the office of the Presidency for his own political gain in the process. And he obstructed Congress in its investigation.
Whether that’s removal level conduct is up for a sliver of debate (I don’t agree on any level with the “no” side, but that’s what should be discussed.)
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Zow
Footballguy
I've been thinking about this. Mayor Pete seems like the obvious choice to me if the goal is to beat Trump. He's pretty clean-cut, male, white, speaks more articulately than Trump with comparable confidence to Trump, and is much better looking (see e.g. Kennedy v. Nixon debates). But, of course, he's nowehere near the top.
And I recognize that I say this as the guy who thought that Kasich was the clear choice for Republicans in 2016.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
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