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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (7 Viewers)

parrot said:
FOR USING HIS THE POWERS OF HIS OFFICE TO INFLUENCE THE NEXT ELECTION. 

Not correcting you, just feels like that's a salient point to add.  They're going to pull out all the stops now.  
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Seems like we had differing ideas about the predicate, but yours wasn't off. They can both be true! 

 
Henry Ford said:
The argument that Trump did what he’s accused of is so overwhelming that only those categories can deny it. He violated the law and used the office of the Presidency for his own political gain in the process. And he obstructed Congress in its investigation.

Whether that’s removal level conduct is up for a sliver of debate (I don’t agree on any level with the “no” side, but that’s what should be discussed.)
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You know what else should be discussed, if what Trump did was an impeachable offense, should Biden be impeached for the same reason.  Biden, just like Trump, abused his authority by threatened to withhold government funding.  Both acts represent a threat to misappropriate funds.  Both acts had a conflict of interest involved.  Now if you are a mind reader, you could declare Biden's acts were for what he believed was in the best interests of the country and what Trump did was for personal gain.  Both guys acted in an illegal and unethical way and the evidence is overwhelming.   But the distinction, which is not proven, is the true motivation.  The real difference is Biden has much better plausible deniability than Trump.  But is that enough to remove one from office and not the other?  Not in my book. 

 
moleculo said:
of course I agree with removing Clinton.  Please don't confuse me for a traditional democrat or liberal. I remember voting for GWB over Gore in 2000 (in Palm Beach County on a butterfly ballot, BTW) because I felt Bush would restore honor and dignity to the White House and a Gore presidency would validate presidents lying under oath.

Perhaps you were speaking to the democrat party, in which case I would agree. 

But, here we are in 2020.  We can't go back and re-do 1999.  Admitting that Clinton should have been impeached isn't really going to do anything today.  The House did draw a line in the sand - the Senate is in the process of burying it and I fear there is no going back.
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Removal was/is justified in both.  The bar continues to sink lower and lower.  I found it remarkable that the defense was talking about "setting precedent" with respect to calling witnesses.  THAT has been the ultimate irony of this entire fiasco.  Precedent moving forward is simply a :bs:   "but what about...." wrapped in a fancy word.  A couple new precedents have been set while blowing others away.

 
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Henry Ford said:
Why do you believe Democrats are doing it?
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The questions from both sides have more or less been “Please repeat this point you’ve made 3 times.”  Very few original points/discussion has come from this.  

I dont doubt for a second both sides are asking the legal teams “What would you like us to ask.”  Whether it be pre-trial or whenever.

 
jon_mx said:
You know what else should be discussed, if what Trump did was an impeachable offense, should Biden be impeached for the same reason.  Biden, just like Trump, abused his authority by threatened to withhold government funding.  Both acts represent a threat to misappropriate funds.  Both acts had a conflict of interest involved.  Now if you are a mind reader, you could declare Biden's acts were for what he believed was in the best interests of the country and what Trump did was for personal gain.  Both guys acted in an illegal and unethical way and the evidence is overwhelming.   But the distinction, which is not proven, is the true motivation.  The real difference is Biden has much better plausible deniability than Trump.  But is that enough to remove one from office and not the other?  Not in my book. 
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Biden did not abuse his authority in threatening to withhold government funding and the fact that you think he did suggests you don’t understand what happened in that entire series of events. 

 
jm192 said:
The questions from both sides have more or less been “Please repeat this point you’ve made 3 times.”  Very few original points/discussion has come from this.  

I dont doubt for a second both sides are asking the legal teams “What would you like us to ask.”  Whether it be pre-trial or whenever.
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So we have video of the Republicans taking question cards from the defense team and your gut tells you the Democrats must be doing it, too?

 
jon_mx said:
You know what else should be discussed, if what Trump did was an impeachable offense, should Biden be impeached for the same reason.  Biden, just like Trump, abused his authority by threatened to withhold government funding.  Both acts represent a threat to misappropriate funds.  Both acts had a conflict of interest involved.  Now if you are a mind reader, you could declare Biden's acts were for what he believed was in the best interests of the country and what Trump did was for personal gain.  Both guys acted in an illegal and unethical way and the evidence is overwhelming.   But the distinction, which is not proven, is the true motivation.  The real difference is Biden has much better plausible deniability than Trump.  But is that enough to remove one from office and not the other?  Not in my book. 
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Does Biden hold an office from which he can be impeached?

 
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jon_mx said:
You know what else should be discussed, if what Trump did was an impeachable offense, should Biden be impeached for the same reason.  Biden, just like Trump, abused his authority by threatened to withhold government funding.  Both acts represent a threat to misappropriate funds.  Both acts had a conflict of interest involved.  Now if you are a mind reader, you could declare Biden's acts were for what he believed was in the best interests of the country and what Trump did was for personal gain.  Both guys acted in an illegal and unethical way and the evidence is overwhelming.   But the distinction, which is not proven, is the true motivation.  The real difference is Biden has much better plausible deniability than Trump.  But is that enough to remove one from office and not the other?  Not in my book. 
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Are you serious?

Just to be clear, are you arguing Biden should have been impeached at the time, or are you actually arguing that we can impeach someone who is not in office?

 
Sheriff Bart said:
Dershowitz just said if democrats would have impeached Trump for bribery the results of this would have been very, very, different. 

Neat country. 
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Ok let’s have the House vote on an impeachment article on bribery and see what he has to say. After what he did the last two days I bet he suddenly changes his defense. I hope those ‘massages’ were worth destroying your entire legacy.

 
Henry Ford said:
So we have video of the Republicans taking question cards from the defense team and your gut tells you the Democrats must be doing it, too?
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My gut said it about both sides long before this based on the questions.

I forgot this is all Republicans clearly bad, Dems not capable.  I’ll excuse myself.  Carry on.

 
Henry Ford said:
So we have video of the Republicans taking question cards from the defense team and your gut tells you the Democrats must be doing it, too?
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I saw an interview with Jeffries where he said the managers weren’t doing it, but I think a lot of media opined that the respective trial teams would probably be ghostwriting questions. 

 
Henry Ford said:
Those are the note cards passed to Roberts with questions on them. 
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I'm still confused.  When I was watching, the camera never panned to the Senators stating they have a question.  I presumed they would hand a runner a card that would eventually make it's way up to Roberts.

Is the allegation that the President's Counsel would sneak the cards to the Senators?  We don't see that part in the video.

 
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unckeyherb said:
No.  Do you think he cares about being impeached?  
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Oh, it kills him. He's lived his entire life needing acceptance. He was never accepted by the New York City elite. And it ate at him his entire life. He is an impeached President. That is an ugly, ugly stain on his legacy. He's also the only President in US history to never had had a day of 50% approval. He is hated by more Americans than liked. And foreign leaders laugh at him. I'd be willing to guess he is one of the most widely hated people on the planet. This is why he needs to have so many rallies. He can escape the real world and only surround himself with people who like him. He would do one every day if he could. (except for golf days)  

 
jon_mx said:
You know what else should be discussed, if what Trump did was an impeachable offense, should Biden be impeached for the same reason.  Biden, just like Trump, abused his authority by threatened to withhold government funding.  Both acts represent a threat to misappropriate funds.  Both acts had a conflict of interest involved.  Now if you are a mind reader, you could declare Biden's acts were for what he believed was in the best interests of the country and what Trump did was for personal gain.  Both guys acted in an illegal and unethical way and the evidence is overwhelming.   But the distinction, which is not proven, is the true motivation.  The real difference is Biden has much better plausible deniability than Trump.  But is that enough to remove one from office and not the other?  Not in my book. 
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you know Bidens actions were not corrupt.  We have been over this dozens of times.  This meme is, at best, right wing propaganda.

I know you don't like how you perceive to be treated.  How do you expect to be treated when you repeat easily debunked propaganda?

 
rockaction said:
Technically. Imagine a world of Roosevelts.   
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In a world of Roosevelts, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Teddy would have stood up in the Senate, stripped his shirt off so he was in trousers and braces, and offered to dismiss impeachment in exchange for punching Trump in the face once for every battle Teddy won during the Spanish-American War. When Trump refused Teddy would have spat on the ground, called him a boy in short pants pretending to be a man, and told the whole Senate if they wanted to follow that dandy around they should start wearing lace knickers and makeup and charging by the hour.  And he would have been removed that day. 

 
Henry Ford said:
Nobody remembers what Presidents were censured. 
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Okay, so in your opinion censure would not have been enough.  Time will very soon tell if the memory of this impeachment is enough to convince voters to go a different direction in November.  I seriously doubt it.  So the end result may well be the same as censuring, with the added benefit of making some* people think it was all a political hatchet job.  Hopefully that doesn't motivate people to vote for him again.

*I am referring to people that don't follow this stuff nearly as much as this board.  Which is most of the country.

 
Juxtatarot said:
I'm still confused.  When I was watching, the camera never panned to the Senators stating they have a question.  I presumed they would hand a runner a card that would eventually make it's way up to Roberts.

Is the allegation that the President's Counsel would sneak the cards to the Senators?  We don't see that part in the video.
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Pam Bondi handed him the question cards. 

 
moleculo said:
you know Bidens actions were not corrupt.  We have been over this dozens of times.  This meme is, at best, right wing propaganda.

I know you don't like how you perceive to be treated.  How do you expect to be treated when you repeat easily debunked propaganda?
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Seriously. This is the most blatant lie out there. One that has been pointed out as being a lie over and over, yet it persists. So ####### frustrating. 

 
Henry Ford said:
It’s about “here’s video evidence.”
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Sure.  And I was of the belief both sides were calling the lawyers the nights before and coordinating. 

But you're not capable of believing the Democrats can do anything other than perfection.  Really no point in my further discussioin.

 
roadkill1292 said:
To paraphrase the bleeding Megyn Kelly, "both sides" is just something conservatives say to make themselves feel better.
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Yeah.  You're right dude.

Republicans are all evil and Democrats are all good.  And anyone who has any other view point is evil and has sold their soul to the devil.

Really just no point in attempting discussion anymore guys. 

 
jm192 said:
Sure.  And I was of the belief both sides were calling the lawyers the nights before and coordinating. 

But you're not capable of believing the Democrats can do anything other than perfection.  Really no point in my further discussioin.
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I don’t think you know me very well. 

 
Henry Ford said:
In a world of Roosevelts, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Teddy would have stood up in the Senate, stripped his shirt off so he was in trousers and braces, and offered to dismiss impeachment in exchange for punching Trump in the face once for every battle Teddy won during the Spanish-American War. When Trump refused Teddy would have spat on the ground, called him a boy in short pants pretending to be a man, and told the whole Senate if they wanted to follow that dandy around they should start wearing lace knickers and makeup and charging by the hour.  And he would have been removed that day. 
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:lmao:   :lmao:   :lmao:

 
jm192 said:
Yeah.  You're right dude.

Republicans are all evil and Democrats are all good.  And anyone who has any other view point is evil and has sold their soul to the devil.

Really just no point in attempting discussion anymore guys. 
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No one has said this, and it isn’t necessary to believe this to believe what he (or I) wrote.

 
jm192 said:
Yeah.  You're right dude.

Republicans are all evil and Democrats are all good.  And anyone who has any other view point is evil and has sold their soul to the devil.

Really just no point in attempting discussion anymore guys. 
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I wouldn't say democrats are ALL good. 

 
Henry Ford said:
In a world of Roosevelts, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Teddy would have stood up in the Senate, stripped his shirt off so he was in trousers and braces, and offered to dismiss impeachment in exchange for punching Trump in the face once for every battle Teddy won during the Spanish-American War. When Trump refused Teddy would have spat on the ground, called him a boy in short pants pretending to be a man, and told the whole Senate if they wanted to follow that dandy around they should start wearing lace knickers and makeup and charging by the hour.  And he would have been removed that day. 
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Right about then he would have shown Trump that appendage which allowed him to talk softly.

 
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Henry Ford said:
I don’t think you know me very well. 
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Maybe not.

But when the Dem questions are Schiff quotes rephrased as questions and the Republican quotes are Sekulow quotes phrased as questions--I think it's pretty obvious both sides are coordinating with their respective legal teams. 

But a picture of a card proves the Republicans did it--and well, there is no picture of a card on a Democrat desk--so it's absurd to consider the idea. 

Sorry.  Can't believe either side wasn't working with the lawyers behind closed doors. 

 
jm192 said:
Yeah.  You're right dude.

Republicans are all evil and Democrats are all good.  And anyone who has any other view point is evil and has sold their soul to the devil.

Really just no point in attempting discussion anymore guys. 
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you know it doesn't have to be "red team" vs "blue team".  We should all be on the same team - America.  We should all want what is best for us as a country.  Do you think that the trajectory we are currently on is good for sustainability of the Country?

 
parrot said:
"Blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her whatever".  I think it's track 7 on Trump's Greatest Hits.  
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And that's an automatic disqualification for a Democratic candidate so I think we can safely can the "both sides" debate for this and a thousand other examples.

 
the moops said:
Seriously. This is the most blatant lie out there. One that has been pointed out as being a lie over and over, yet it persists. So ####### frustrating. 
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This is all the 2020 election is going to be - a constant battle over misinformation and purposeful propaganda. I don't think my sensibilities can take another round of this. This is why I hope that Joe doesn't get the nomination, but on the flip side if it is Warren or Sanders, I'm pretty certain Trump will win again. Hoping for a miracle candidate emerging from the rubble to save us (Pete or Amy).

 
jm192 said:
Maybe not.

But when the Dem questions are Schiff quotes rephrased as questions and the Republican quotes are Sekulow quotes phrased as questions--I think it's pretty obvious both sides are coordinating with their respective legal teams. 

But a picture of a card proves the Republicans did it--and well, there is no picture of a card on a Democrat desk--so it's absurd to consider the idea. 

Sorry.  Can't believe either side wasn't working with the lawyers behind closed doors. 
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There are many lawyers in the Senate on both sides. Taking a quote from your side and turning it into a question is pretty fundamental lawyering.  It doesn’t tell me anything about coordination whatsoever. Because the quote was stated publicly.  

 
Biff84 said:
Ok let’s have the House vote on an impeachment article on bribery and see what he has to say. After what he did the last two days I bet he suddenly changes his defense. I hope those ‘massages’ were worth destroying your entire legacy.
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To the extent that it applies to impeachments, that would implicate the Fifth Amendment’s Double Jeopardy clause. 

 
moleculo said:
you know it doesn't have to be "red team" vs "blue team".  We should all be on the same team - America.  We should all want what is best for us as a country.  Do you think that the trajectory we are currently on is good for sustainability of the Country?
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No.  But pretty common theme in this thread that everything one side does is bad.  And the Dems are just out for justice.  Feel free to continue lecturing me when the Dems in this thread want to take off their blue tinted glasses

 
jm192 said:
No.  But pretty common theme in this thread that everything one side does is bad.  And the Dems are just out for justice.  Feel free to continue lecturing me when the Dems in this thread want to take off their blue tinted glasses
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the theme that everything one side does is bad is really no different than your theme of if one side is bad, the other side must be equally bad.

 
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