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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread***

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8 minutes ago, jm192 said:

Henry

I'm not Asking for the name.  I'm explaining WHY the GOP keeps going after it.  That's the only point. 

 

The GOP is desperate.All facts are against them and they're all involved in a huge cover-up now that they know what Bolton has to say.  They are trying to out the whistleblower so that they can make it be all about him. If they can show he voted for Hillary in 2016 or didn't watch season 4 of the Apprentice, they think that the mountain of evidence showing Trump's greasy mob shakedown attempt of Ukraine will disappear.  You are witnessing absolute desperation. They have no defense at this point.

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42 minutes ago, jm192 said:

I guess so were the Dems.  They could have had them in the courts, but they wouldn’t wait because the American people might elect Trump again.

What courts?

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20 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

This. I bet Trump supporters completely understand what's going on. They're not stupid; they have a specific agenda. They approve because it will help prevent the socialist hordes from beating them in November and shoving health care and universal voting rights down the country's throat.

This2.  No one is fooled.  It's all about rationalizing.  Yes, Trump did this thing. And yes, normally it would be bad, BUT it's Biden and clearly something hinky was going on there so it's okay.  And yes, normally you would prefer that the President utilize the channels and agencies already in place for this sort of thing but he's so under attack he HAS to use his personal lawyer and a couple of shadowy characters to carry out his orders. And yes, normally we wouldn't approve of attacking decorated vets and long-time civil servants without a hint of controversy in their history, but it's possible they might be lying for some unknown reason, so we have to give them a pass here. And yes, normally we would want to protect whistle-blowers, but in this case we need to know who it is and rake them over the coals in case they have contrary allegiances that need to be exposed. And yes, normally it would be expected that we would want to hear from the ex-cabinet-member who claims to be in possession of relevant facts on the case but since the House didn't already take him to court to try and compel him blah, blah, blah...

It must be exhausting to try and keep up with whatever strain of BS they're spewing on any given day.  

Edited by parrot

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7 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Side note: please tell me if I got any abbreviations wrong, I'm currently quite pleased with myself for remembering how to abbreviate states.

Relevant

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We all get the political calculus. Trump will be acquitted. Why not use the time to dirty up Joe Biden (and Democrats generally). It’s distasteful, but certainly not unexpected. And as someone who will be tempted to walk into the sea like Kate Chopin heroine if the Democrats run Uncle Joe against Trump, I’m not terribly offended. 

Just don’t start citing a bunch of legal non sequiturs like due process. 

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6 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

The GOP is desperate.All facts are against them and they're all involved in a huge cover-up now that they know what Bolton has to say.  They are trying to out the whistleblower so that they can make it be all about him. If they can show he voted for Hillary in 2016 or didn't watch season 4 of the Apprentice, they think that the mountain of evidence showing Trump's greasy mob shakedown attempt of Ukraine will disappear.  You are witnessing absolute desperation. They have no defense at this point.

While Joe Biden will appear on the Grassy Knoll right behind Ted Cruz's father in future GOP narratives, especially if he continues to poll well against Donald, he's kinda fair game for Trump nefariousness. Endangering the whistleblower, however, for the sake of an irrelevant smear job should raise the hackles of all of us. 

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20 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Side note: please tell me if I got any abbreviations wrong, I'm currently quite pleased with myself for remembering how to abbreviate states.

I miss the 4 letter abbreviations

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15 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Love that bit.

I also find unusual pride in remembering the state abbreviations. I don't know why I do, but I do. 

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What’s particularly galling about the attack on the WB is that he didn’t do what a partisan would do, which is just leak to the press. 
 

Joe Biden is a big boy. He knows this game. And he knows that extends to his family, for better or worse. But I think it’s really gross how career civil servants have been demonized in all this. They didn’t sign up for this. 

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This has been a partisan political cage match from the start. Barring some miracle the Democrats are going to lose. Take the pain and move on.

The pain would have been less had you not chosen not to take it to the GOP-controlled Senate. But you did. And now you're even more emotionally invested...giving a standing ovation to Schiff every step of the way. So now the inevitable defeat hurts now more than ever.

Take a break. Get your focus back. And then nominate the right candidate to beat Trump in November (hint: not Sanders/Warren).

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1 minute ago, PhantomJB said:

This has been a partisan political cage match from the start. Barring some miracle the Democrats are going to lose. Take the pain and move on.

The pain would have been less had you not chosen not to take it to the GOP-controlled Senate. But you did. And now you're even more emotionally invested...giving a standing ovation to Schiff every step of the way. So now the inevitable defeat hurts now more than ever.

Take a break. Get your focus back. And then nominate the right candidate to beat Trump in November (hint: not Sanders/Warren).

It achieved the desired goal.  Showed the GOP to be morally bankrupt, corrupt, and in the pocket of a sociopath.  Now they have to run on it.  I’m satisfied.

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1 hour ago, Jackstraw said:

I don't think he fools them. They're willing accomplices in my mind. They enable him. They encourage him.  They love him for it. 

They think that they are "made" and will share in the spoils but in reality are being used.  In gangster movies we all know what happens to these characters. 

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4 minutes ago, joffer said:

It achieved the desired goal.  Showed the GOP to be morally bankrupt, corrupt, and in the pocket of a sociopath.  Now they have to run on it.  I’m satisfied.

I didn't like the comment because I'm happy with the result, more that I agree with you that it achieved its desired goal tactically. I know a lot of people disgusted with the Republicans right now.

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3 minutes ago, joffer said:

It achieved the desired goal.  Showed the GOP to be morally bankrupt, corrupt, and in the pocket of a sociopath.  Now they have to run on it.  I’m satisfied.

I would agree that even though the ball wasn't put in the end zone some amount of political yardage was gained by the Democrats. But November is still a long way away. Not sure how much staying power it has.

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38 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Side note: please tell me if I got any abbreviations wrong, I'm currently quite pleased with myself for remembering how to abbreviate states.

Meh, only two of the M states, and easy ones at that. 

Edited by Snorkelson
I take it back, none of the M states are easy

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7 minutes ago, PhantomJB said:

I would agree that even though the ball wasn't put in the end zone some amount of political yardage was gained by the Democrats. But November is still a long way away. Not sure how much staying power it has.

The videos and the quotes last forever. Let's see how many of them pop around August/September/October.

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1 hour ago, jm192 said:

It’s illogical if you’re telling me you think the President will be removed.

It’s completely logical to paint this as a biased sham in preparation for November. 

Sure there are times when lying is the only logical option.   

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25 minutes ago, PhantomJB said:

This has been a partisan political cage match from the start. Barring some miracle the Democrats are going to lose. Take the pain and move on.

The pain would have been less had you not chosen not to take it to the GOP-controlled Senate. But you did. And now you're even more emotionally invested...giving a standing ovation to Schiff every step of the way. So now the inevitable defeat hurts now more than ever.

Take a break. Get your focus back. And then nominate the right candidate to beat Trump in November (hint: not Sanders/Warren).

Umm...I think the GOP is the one who will feel the longer term pain from this.

Democrats and posters here went in knowing the GOP would not remove him...but we still should hear more of what he did.

The focus is fine...whoever wins the Dem nomination will be running against and impeached man...and those running against GOP senators will be running against people that voted against hearing witnesses in a trial.

Also...not sure why the DNC or democrat voters should take advice of who to nominate from those who support Trump.  its a very odd thing.

I think Sanders or Warren can beat him just as several others can.  

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15 minutes ago, PhantomJB said:

I would agree that even though the ball wasn't put in the end zone some amount of political yardage was gained by the Democrats. But November is still a long way away. Not sure how much staying power it has.

I'm curious to see what the House will do if the McGahn court case resolves favorably for forcing testimony.

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5 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Umm...I think the GOP is the one who will feel the longer term pain from this.

Democrats and posters here went in knowing the GOP would not remove him...but we still should hear more of what he did.

GOP and Trump will be able to claim victory in terms of outcome. To be weighed against the "we did the right thing" process arguments.

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7 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Also...not sure why the DNC or democrat voters should take advice of who to nominate from those who support Trump.  its a very odd thing.

??

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Yeah, Dems are a mess at getting organized and solidified around a single candidate not named Barack Obama, but this "impeachment hurts the Democrats most" meme is like Karl Rove's assertions during the 2012 election on Fox (as adroitly stated by Megyn Kelly): numbers that Republicans use to make themselves feel better.

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There seems to be some debate this morning about whether or not Roberts can decide a tie vote. Most people think no; he would have to be asked first by the Majority Leader- and that’s never going to happen. So if Collins, Romney and Murkowski were to vote for witnesses and no other Republicans, that would make it 50-50 and a fail. 

However I have heard at least two different attorneys say that if this happens Roberts can decide to cast a vote; he doesn’t need permission to do so. But this is the minority view and even if it was correct, Roberts would have to make this decision of his own initiative- and given his demeanor there’s no reason to believe he would- but who knows? 

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Just now, PhantomJB said:

GOP and Trump will be able to claim victory in terms of outcome. To be weighed against the "we did the right thing" process arguments.

Donald claims victory whenever he gets away with another misdeed. The tactic mostly only works on those people who are likely to attend one of his rallies.

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1 hour ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

I remember when this Board had conservatives, not simply republicans.  I myself am quite conservative, so conservative that on many issues I am aligned with liberals, though potentially for other reasoning than they use.  I am so conservative that I do not place party over principle and I do not confuse any one office holder with party.

So you admit you're a lib, huh?

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With regard to my last post a Democratic senator (not sure who) was asked if the Democrats would publicly urge Roberts to cast a vote in the event of a tie vote. He replied “That’s not our role.” 

This made me wonder, why not? But then it occurred to me that Democrats are not that displeased by a vote against witnesses? 

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9 minutes ago, PhantomJB said:

GOP and Trump will be able to claim victory in terms of outcome. To be weighed against the "we did the right thing" process arguments.

Wow. You might want to take a look at polling. 

This result will be an outrage and a terrible defeat for the rule of law. It’s a shameful moment in our nation. But politically speaking, this is NOT a defeat for Democrats. Quite the opposite: it’s a huge win. This stain is going to be with the GOP for a long time, perhaps forever. Certainly Trump will never escape it; by the time this weekend is over he becomes OJ Simpson. 

Edited by timschochet

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13 minutes ago, PhantomJB said:

GOP and Trump will be able to claim victory in terms of outcome. To be weighed against the "we did the right thing" process arguments.

The GOP is about to vote to silence first hand witnesses. Despite 75% of Americans wanting to hear from witnesses. There's not a fancy mathematician on the planet who can make that be a positive for Republicans. 

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I am hoping the Senate is orchestrating a Survivor style blindside to remove Trump. It would be a fitting end to our reality TV game show host President. 

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2 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Wow. You might want to take a look at polling. 

This result will be an outrage and a terrible defeat for the rule of law. It’s a shameful moment in our nation. But politically speaking, this is NOT a defeat for Democrats. Quite the opposite: it’s a huge win. This stain is going to be with the GOP for a long time, perhaps forever. Certainly Trump will never escape it; by the time this weekend is over he becomes OJ Simpson. 

Geez. Follow the thread, please. I said the Democrats will lose in terms of getting Trump removed but gained political yardage overall. How much staying power those gains might have is open to question.

What I said about the GOP is my view on what they will claim after this is over. Whether people see through the transparency of that is also an open question.

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9 minutes ago, PhantomJB said:

GOP and Trump will be able to claim victory in terms of outcome. To be weighed against the "we did the right thing" process arguments.

Do you think between now and November that this will be the last we hear of this?   I believe that there is book being released in March which per rumors discusses quite a bit of this.   Probably going to be everywhere for a day or two - assuming the president doesn't start a war or something to bump it off the front page.   I'm guessing others are in discussions to cash in right now.   Maybe the GOP can hold off the avalanche until after November, but I think in the short term they will be buried by this.   Long term  - lets just say "we" stuck a fork in democrats forever in 2004 and then 2005 happened followed by the financial meltdown.  So "we" stuck a fork in republicans forever in 2008 and then the ACA happened.  And on and on...

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6 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Wow. You might want to take a look at polling. 

This result will be an outrage and a terrible defeat for the rule of law. It’s a shameful moment in our nation. But politically speaking, this is NOT a defeat for Democrats. Quite the opposite: it’s a huge win. This stain is going to be with the GOP for a long time, perhaps forever. Certainly Trump will never escape it; by the time this weekend is over he becomes OJ Simpson. 

Better warn Melania or whoever you think Trump is gonna kill.

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IF the Republicans had allowed witnesses and then argued “we don’t think this rises to the level of impeachment” or “it’s only a few months until the election, let the voters decide”, I think the public would have put up with an acquittal. A large percentage might have disagreed but at least they would have regarded these as legitimate arguments. 

But to allow no witnesses and then to acquit because you’ve heard enough and don’t want to hear anymore- the public will know what this is. And I don’t believe they’re going to accept it. 

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Just now, kodycutter said:

Better warn Melania or whoever you think Trump is gonna kill.

He'd have to get her to come somewhat close to him for that to happen.

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Just now, JuniorNB said:

He'd have to get her to come somewhat close to him for that to happen.

Fair point.

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Just now, timschochet said:

IF the Republicans had allowed witnesses and then argued “we don’t think this rises to the level of impeachment” or “it’s only a few months until the election, let the voters decide”, I think the public would have put up with an acquittal. A large percentage might have disagreed but at least they would have regarded these as legitimate arguments. 

But to allow no witnesses and then to acquit because you’ve heard enough and don’t want to hear anymore- the public will know what this is. And I don’t believe they’re going to accept it. 

Yup.  This.   Politically, staging an obvious cover-up like this is suicide for the GOP. Specifically, any swing state Senators who voted to silence witnesses. But Mitch had to obey Trump's demands. And Trump cares more about Trump than he does the Republican party. He was a Democrat 4 years ago. 

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1 minute ago, kodycutter said:

Better warn Melania or whoever you think Trump is gonna kill.

I trust that most people, including you, are sophisticated enough to understand what I meant by that remark: that Donald Trump will become a man who got away with a crime because his jury didn’t do their job, they decided, for political reasons, to let him off the hook. For the rest of his life Trump will not be able to prove his innocence because everyone will know what a sham his trial was. That’s why I compared him to OJ. 

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3 minutes ago, Bottomfeeder Sports said:

Do you think between now and November that this will be the last we hear of this?   I believe that there is book being released in March which per rumors discusses quite a bit of this.   Probably going to be everywhere for a day or two - assuming the president doesn't start a war or something to bump it off the front page.   I'm guessing others are in discussions to cash in right now.   Maybe the GOP can hold off the avalanche until after November, but I think in the short term they will be buried by this.   Long term  - lets just say "we" stuck a fork in democrats forever in 2004 and then 2005 happened followed by the financial meltdown.  So "we" stuck a fork in republicans forever in 2008 and then the ACA happened.  And on and on...

No. I don't think it's the last we hear of this. But I do think the voting public has become numb to the topic. Additional impeachment info will not move the needle vs. new information such as the state of the economy, Suleimani events, trade wars, etc that will surely occur between now and November.

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1 minute ago, The Tahitian Facemask said:

Doesn’t really matter who it benefits in November when the GOP rigs the living hell out of these elections. 

What are these November elections that keep getting mentioned?   I mean if holding an election is bad for Trump's re-election then holding the election must be bad for the nation's interests and must be stopped! 

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1 minute ago, The Tahitian Facemask said:

Doesn’t really matter who it benefits in November when the GOP rigs the living hell out of these elections. 

Actually that’s a good point. I assume a victory in November but Trump will cheat, so who knows? There’s no punishment for cheating; in fact, Alan Dershowitz suggested last night it should be regarded as patriotic. 

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1 hour ago, PhantomJB said:

This has been a partisan political cage match from the start. Barring some miracle the Democrats are going to lose. Take the pain and move on.

The pain would have been less had you not chosen not to take it to the GOP-controlled Senate. But you did. And now you're even more emotionally invested...giving a standing ovation to Schiff every step of the way. So now the inevitable defeat hurts now more than ever.

Take a break. Get your focus back. And then nominate the right candidate to beat Trump in November (hint: not Sanders/Warren).

There isn't a person on earth who thought the Republicans were going to vote to remove Trump. And certainly not on this board.

Sometimes you have to do something because it's the right thing to do, regardless of how it effects your party politically.

Crazy I know.

 

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19 minutes ago, PhantomJB said:

I would agree that even though the ball wasn't put in the end zone some amount of political yardage was gained by the Democrats. But November is still a long way away. Not sure how much staying power it has.

The question is what happens next. If Trump behaves, it might be forgotten, but we know that’s not going to happen. He just got the ok to ignore all oversight attempts and that the GOP has his back with little resistance. What’s next is anyone’s guess but I bet he starts taking the crazy ramblings of Dershowitz to heart and believe that he’s above the law. The resulting behavior is what will keep this fresh in voters minds in November. ‘When Senator ______ had a chance to prevent this, not only they not vote to remove, they voted to not even hear new witnesses. What will they ignore if you send them back to Washington for another term?’

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7 minutes ago, timschochet said:

IF the Republicans had allowed witnesses and then argued “we don’t think this rises to the level of impeachment” or “it’s only a few months until the election, let the voters decide”, I think the public would have put up with an acquittal. A large percentage might have disagreed but at least they would have regarded these as legitimate arguments. 

But to allow no witnesses and then to acquit because you’ve heard enough and don’t want to hear anymore- the public will know what this is. And I don’t believe they’re going to accept it. 

They should have allowed witnesses, if for nothing else, than to get everything out there in a controlled environment where they could make arguments vs. the testimony - as opposed to a drip, drip, drip that will likely come over time and playing defense. The public already knows that he'll be acquitted. By next week, assuming the trial ends, we'll be moving onto Iowa and the Democratic voting.

 

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Just now, Biff84 said:

The question is what happens next. If Trump behaves, it might be forgotten, but we know that’s not going to happen. He just got the ok to ignore all oversight attempts and that the GOP has his back with little resistance. What’s next is anyone’s guess but I bet he starts taking the crazy ramblings of Dershowitz to heart and believe that he’s above the law. The resulting behavior is what will keep this fresh in voters minds in November. ‘When Senator ______ had a chance to prevent this, not only they not vote to remove, they voted to not even hear new witnesses. What will they ignore if you send them back to Washington for another term?’

It's almost the opposite. We know we'll move onto the next outrage within days of this trial being over. By next fall, there will be 15-20 controversies or statements made that capture all of the media, not to mention the voting.

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7 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I trust that most people, including you, are sophisticated enough to understand what I meant by that remark: that Donald Trump will become a man who got away with a crime because his jury didn’t do their job, they decided, for political reasons, to let him off the hook. For the rest of his life Trump will not be able to prove his innocence because everyone will know what a sham his trial was. That’s why I compared him to OJ. 

The only sham was the one cooked up by schiff and he's gonna fail miserably. The fact that there will be democrats voting in Trumps favor tells everyone that. The guy should spend more time fixing problems than going on a 3 year witch hunt. He's absolutely no different than Peter Strzok. He's just more sinister and capable of disguising his hate.

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55 minutes ago, Snorkelson said:

Meh, only two of the M states, and easy ones at that. 

MI - Michigan

MS - Mississippi

ME - Maine

MO = Missouri

MN - Minnesota

Thar. 

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2 minutes ago, Skoo said:

There isn't a person on earth who thought the Republicans were going to vote to remove Trump. And certainly not on this board.

Sometimes you have to do something because it's the right thing to do, regardless of how it effects your party politically.

Crazy I know.

When have these times been when the Republicans have done the right thing regardless of how it effects their party politically?   I mean they have done plenty of wrong things that one would have suspected to harm the party (somehow never does) but when were the "right things" involved?

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