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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (7 Viewers)

I am quite familiar with the story. It's just another in a long line of fake news/conspiracy theory/Trump-supporter-wishcasting stories, not unlike Pizzagate or all of the breathless claims about various Democrats (Hillary) or public servants (Comey) who are on the verge of being locked up, just as soon as Sessions/Barr/Durham/whoever finish their next investigation.

And every single one of these predictions have failed spectacularly.

Haven't you guys ever stopped to ask yourself why every single one of these conspiracy theories have failed to materialize? Doesn't it bother you that Trump kept promising to "lock up" Hillary, but he hasn't even launched a serious investigation into her, let alone locked her up? Doesn't it bother you that promise after promise after promise goes unfilled? Or do you only care about the validation of your feelings, not results?
Wait, what? This isn’t a conspiracy and it’s hilarious you would characterize it as one. Hunter Biden rode on Air Force 2 to China with his dad and his firm comes away with a $1.5 billion deal over established brands like Morgan Stanley and Golden Sachs. Are you saying this didn’t happen?

 
Fwiw I think Widbill has insights because I take it he is on right wing blogs and listens to conservative tv/radio, and he is a supporter of the movement. I think if you look the first mention of Ukraine (in this context) here by a Trump supporter was in May 2019 (not by Widbill, someone else, 5/5/19) but as it turns out that was right around when Trump, Mulvaney, Giuliani & Cipolline were ginning up the Ukraine issue. I do remember Widbill saying this would be a thing, to which my thought was yeah Trump will try to create it into a campaign issue - which he is - but the unforeseen consequence (for both of us, everyone really) was that it would embroil Trump in impeachment. I do think this White House is very driven by underlying movement social media and vice versa, so when Trump people say this stuff it's worth noting.

 
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Curious if all the impeachers in this fourm are happy with these expected results?

Time and energy well invested?

Have the proceedings moved the country forward?
No, not happy. As was expected due to the senate cover up.

No, time and energy could have been used in many things for our country, but our President withheld aid for personal gain so we had no choice.

Voting Trump and his enablers into oblivion is about the only way to move this country forward and make it great again.

 
Wait, what? This isn’t a conspiracy and it’s hilarious you would characterize it as one. Hunter Biden rode on Air Force 2 to China with his dad and his firm comes away with a $1.5 billion deal over established brands like Morgan Stanley and Golden Sachs. Are you saying this didn’t happen?
I am unfamiliar with them but it sounds sexy, like Elle McPherson as a young woman, sunning herself in the nude.

 
Wait, what? This isn’t a conspiracy and it’s hilarious you would characterize it as one. Hunter Biden rode on Air Force 2 to China with his dad and his firm comes away with a $1.5 billion deal over established brands like Morgan Stanley and Golden Sachs. Are you saying this didn’t happen?
Let’s stipulate it did and all of it is as bad as you think.  Where then have you been with Trump, Don Jr., Ivanka, et al.?  This isn’t to be argumentative.  I’m genuinely curious.  

 
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I am quite familiar with the story. It's just another in a long line of fake news/conspiracy theory/Trump-supporter-wishcasting stories, not unlike Pizzagate or all of the breathless claims about various Democrats (Hillary) or public servants (Comey) who are on the verge of being locked up, just as soon as Sessions/Barr/Durham/whoever finish their next investigation.

And every single one of these predictions have failed spectacularly.

Haven't you guys ever stopped to ask yourself why every single one of these conspiracy theories have failed to materialize? Doesn't it bother you that Trump kept promising to "lock up" Hillary, but he hasn't even launched a serious investigation into her, let alone locked her up? Doesn't it bother you that promise after promise after promise goes unfilled? Or do you only care about the validation of your feelings, not results?
Wait, what? This isn’t a conspiracy and it’s hilarious you would characterize it as one. Hunter Biden rode on Air Force 2 to China with his dad and his firm comes away with a $1.5 billion deal over established brands like Morgan Stanley and Golden Sachs. Are you saying this didn’t happen?
Your method of jumping to conclusions here is similar to the methods used with Seth Rich, Hillary Clinton ("Emails!", "Goldman Sachs!"), James Comey, and dozens of other conspiracies which have failed to materialize into tangible results.

The predictions have failed every. Single. Time.

The shoe isn't going to drop, GB. But that doesn't really matter, because it's all about the Next Conspiracy. That's the fuel.

 
So the argument has finally landed on he did leverage congressionally authorized tax-payer aid to an ally in hopes of personal ammo in upcoming election and that’s wrong/inappropriate, but we’re not gonna vote to remove because of that upcoming election?

 
Curious if all the impeachers in this fourm are happy with these expected results?

Time and energy well invested?

Have the proceedings moved the country forward?
I’ve been opposed to the impeachment all along.   Preferred that the Dems just vote the corrupt, ignorant, racist, petty, entitled, criminal buffoon out of office.  

 
Let’s stipulate it did and all of it is as bad as you think.  Where then have you been with Trump, Don Jr., Ivanka, et al.?  This isn’t to be argumentative.  I’m genuinely curious.  
Good question, and thanks for asking. First off you have to look at each individual here. Don JR and Ivanka have never been to rehab as far as I know, Hunter has been a dozen times. Don JR and Ivanka have never been arrested for cocaine and crack, Hunter Biden has at least 3 times that I know of. He has also had several other arrests in his like that were expunged. I can’t find a single arrest of Don JR or Ivanka.

I don’t think anybody would care much about this if Hunter was a decent person, but he’s not. There is no way in hell a guy like Hunter Biden should be sitting on the board of Burisma in Ukraine making $88,000 a month. Or flying over to China on Air Force 2 with very little private equity experience and scoring a $1.5 billion deal over brands like Golden Sachs and Morgan Stanley. That is the problem here. 

 
Wait, what? This isn’t a conspiracy and it’s hilarious you would characterize it as one. Hunter Biden rode on Air Force 2 to China with his dad and his firm comes away with a $1.5 billion deal over established brands like Morgan Stanley and Golden Sachs. Are you saying this didn’t happen?
Do a bit more research.

 
Good question, and thanks for asking. First off you have to look at each individual here. Don JR and Ivanka have never been to rehab as far as I know, Hunter has been a dozen times. Don JR and Ivanka have never been arrested for cocaine and crack, Hunter Biden has at least 3 times that I know of. He has also had several other arrests in his like that were expunged. I can’t find a single arrest of Don JR or Ivanka.

I don’t think anybody would care much about this if Hunter was a decent person, but he’s not. There is no way in hell a guy like Hunter Biden should be sitting on the board of Burisma in Ukraine making $88,000 a month. Or flying over to China on Air Force 2 with very little private equity experience and scoring a $1.5 billion deal over brands like Golden Sachs and Morgan Stanley. That is the problem here. 
You didn't answer his question.

And it's interesting that you include the caveats about being a decent person, given those you choose to support. 

 
If someone is shooting at you, do you shoot back?
I consider it, and I am a fine shot.  Alternatively and most immediately I take cover and then assess my tactical options.  Two things.  First, you did not ask me.  Second, maybe shooting at is a bad analogy.  Maybe the question is, if a vile person is preparing to hang themselves do you demonstrate to them the folly of doing so by hanging yourself, or do you give them a nice, stout, rope, pretied into a proper noose?  Or maybe there are other analogies and other options.

 
Or one could determine to set a good example. Yes in the immediacy of the moment that seems less effective, but I need to believe that in the long run it will more than win out, it will overwhelm.  Then again I can be naïve. 
When was the last time you rewarded with your vote the side that plays by the rules?  When was the last time you wrote eloquently about how no matter how flawed one side is that you must vote for them when they are night and day better than the other side?  When was the last time you didn't find an excuse to cast your vote to those that have the luxury of setting no example at all?

 
When was the last time you rewarded with your vote the side that plays by the rules?  Those for whom I have voted have never had the opportunity to demonstrate how they would govern so it is an open question whether they would play by the rules once in power. When was the last time you wrote eloquently about how no matter how flawed one side is that you must vote for them when they are night and day better than the other side?  I do not believe I have ever eloquently defended choosing the lesser of two evils though in my personal conduct I am often a moral coward so I suspect I have made such a choice, personally, within the last 24 hours. When was the last time you didn't find an excuse to cast your vote to those that have the luxury of setting no example at all?  November of 2019.  Local elections. National races, well, I would not use the word "excuse", but rather "rationale", but essentially never, as a practical matter, much as you have ascertained or projected.

 
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I assume that the next articles of impeachment against President Trump will have something to do with war crimes/Turkey/Syria, but who knows. He is so corrupt and incompetent that it could be anything really.

 
Thanks.

Does it seem odd to make it a thing where the other side is doing something bad, but we're going to do it too? 
If someone is shooting at you, do you shoot back?
The unfortunate reality of modern day American politics is that Democrats are expected to live up to a higher standard, and are therefore punished by the electorate when they fail to do so.

We've seen this recently with the #metoo era (where Democrats are expected to resign for pinching butts, while [accused] child predator Republicans are promoted by the President and his supporters), and we saw it in 2009 (with the formation of the Tea Party).

There are many reasons for this, but it basically boils down to the fact that Democrats are a loose-knit group of many diverse factions, while Republicans are more tightly aligned over a few core issues (abortion, guns, taxes). This makes it easier for Republicans to organize and vote as a bloc.

To put it another way: if Trump were a Democrat, and a Democrat-led Senate had provided cover for him -- against the wishes of the public -- then the Outrage Machine would have gone into overdrive and the Democrats would have been swept out of office in 2020. Instead, Trump will remain a favorite to be re-elected for the next several months, and the Democrats are looking at an uphill battle just to get the slightest of majorities in Congress.

 
joffer said:
What’s the argument against obstruction again?
Probably already answered, but they didn't spend months and months in frivolous court hearings to prove the Constitution says what it says.

 
Curious if all the impeachers in this fourm are happy with these expected results?

Time and energy well invested?

Have the proceedings moved the country forward?
I am.  The House did their job.  Is it "well invested"?  You'd have to define what you mean when you say those words.  I can't say they have moved us forward, but they did stop the free fall if even for a split second.  The first thing you do when you are trying to get out of a hole is to stop digging.

 
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Good question, and thanks for asking. First off you have to look at each individual here. Don JR and Ivanka have never been to rehab as far as I know, Hunter has been a dozen times. Don JR and Ivanka have never been arrested for cocaine and crack, Hunter Biden has at least 3 times that I know of. He has also had several other arrests in his like that were expunged. I can’t find a single arrest of Don JR or Ivanka.

I don’t think anybody would care much about this if Hunter was a decent person, but he’s not. There is no way in hell a guy like Hunter Biden should be sitting on the board of Burisma in Ukraine making $88,000 a month. Or flying over to China on Air Force 2 with very little private equity experience and scoring a $1.5 billion deal over brands like Golden Sachs and Morgan Stanley. That is the problem here. 
I’d like to know more about how you navigate the nepotism angle.

 
Curious if all the impeachers in this fourm are happy with these expected results?

Time and energy well invested?

Have the proceedings moved the country forward?
No. Donald Trump should have been removed.

The GOP running a con job to cover up his corruption doesn't make me happy at all. Our country is in a bad spot. And the GOP made it worse.

 
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What do you call setting a precedent where the President can use his office/power for his personal advances?
Corruption. Looking the other way while someone commits an impeachable offense.

i wouldn’t call it totalitarianism though. You know what that word means; would you call it that? 

 
I am not happy to learn the extent to which our president manipulated the interests of the country and our national security to his sole benefit and further abused his power by engaging in a cover up.  Further, I am not happy that even his supporters acknowledge all the wrong-doing and lack the moral integrity and courage to do anything about it. 
 

But, to the extent this impeachment—obstructed as it was—exposed even this much Is a service to the voters.  And for that, I am grateful.  
Your answer is way better than mine. So forget what I wrote. I just endorse this.

 
Curious if all the impeachers in this fourm are happy with these expected results?

Time and energy well invested?

Have the proceedings moved the country forward?
Yep I just agree with @cobalt_27 and it’s good to see that the whistleblower statute worked as intended and even better than. Worth noting that Sen. Rand Paul himself was one of the original champions of that law.

 
Yep I just agree with @cobalt_27 and it’s good to see that the whistleblower statute worked as intended and even better than. Worth noting that Sen. Rand Paul himself was one of the original champions of that law.
Man, Rand may be the biggest loser in this entire thing. 

Getting your question shot down twice, storming out.  As a Kentuckian--it's just a bad look.

 
No. Donald Trump should have been removed.

The GOP running a con job to cover up his corruption doesn't make me happy at all. Our country is in a bad spot. And the GOP made it worse.
what exactly is worse?  Our relationship with Ukraine?  

 
I think both sides live in their own bubble.  Just look at this forum for proof.  It was a victory for Trump.  No other way to spin it.
So he was impeached in the House and we now see Republicans Senators (Sasse, Rubio, Murkowski and other will follow) agreeing with Sen Alexander that what Trump did was wrong but that misconduct doesn’t rise to the level of removal. The President will spin it as a victory but historians and his legacy will be forever stained. That’s not to say he won’t be re-elected in 2020 as there will be many like you who will also spin it differently.

 
Jackstraw said:
As aggressively as McConnell does. He wields power like he’s not so much in a democracy as a back alley knife fight. Admittedly it’s effective but corrosive for democracy. He completely stopped any progress while team D was in power and used any means necessary when he was in power. Obama wasted years trying to work with these guys when they said day one their only agenda was to ruin him. Never mind what’s good for the country. So the needle had been moved steadily right for 40 year’s and in my opinion the citizens have suffered for it. 
 

Dems need to understand what kind of people they are operating against and act accordingly. I haven’t seen an ounce of good faith in Republicans in a generation. So be it. Off with the gloves and let’s mix it up for once. 
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness.”  -Oscar Wilde

Sounds to me like you admire Trump and the GOP a lot more than you admit...

 
You didn't answer his question.

And it's interesting that you include the caveats about being a decent person, given those you choose to support. 
I did, but you Bidenguys don’t want to hear it. And it’s not my fault that Hunter is a drug addict with a long criminal history and Don JR and Ivanka aren’t. If he used Chelsea Clinton as an example instead I would have said the same thing since she’s an upstanding citizen. Hunter Biden couldn’t even get a security clearance to work in the Capital snack bar, yet he’s running around the world with his dad on Air Force 2 doing billion dollar deals in China. See the problem here?

 
I did, but you Bidenguys don’t want to hear it. And it’s not my fault that Hunter is a drug addict with a long criminal history and Don JR and Ivanka aren’t. If he used Chelsea Clinton as an example instead I would have said the same thing since she’s an upstanding citizen. Hunter Biden couldn’t even get a security clearance to work in the Capital snack bar, yet he’s running around the world with his dad on Air Force 2 doing billion dollar deals in China. See the problem here?
Hmmm, pretty sure there were some other "kids" that were initially denied security clearance for things much more important than the snack bar, but then rules were bent to give them it...

 
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Hunter Biden couldn’t even get a security clearance to work in the Capital snack bar, yet he’s running around the world with his dad on Air Force 2 doing billion dollar deals in China. See the problem here?
How are you saying things like this and ignoring Trump personally overriding denials of security clearances for Kushner? Hunter Biden will be nowhere near the WH unless it's social. Kushner is a white house executive senior counsel.

 
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