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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread***

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Wait a minute.  You mean to tell me Trump will still be our President?  :hophead:

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7 minutes ago, Captain Cranks said:

Schiff is an incredible speaker.  

He will be portrayed very favorably in the next 50 years of movie/tv.

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Between the Russian investigation and now the impeachment debacle, Its like watching the nerdy kid (democrats) tryout for the baseball team, where he continually swings and misses. You are sitting in the bleachers praying to God to let him just get a piece of it, a foul ball...anything, but nope swing and a miss over and over again. Agonizing for everyone involved.

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4 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Because the Democrats have to nominate an actual candidate to run against Trump, and the people most likely be nominated are terrible.  It's like our political parties completely lost the ability to select reasonable candidates.

I agreed in 2016 but there’s still several that don’t fall in to the terrible camp, IMO.  You can disagree with their policies but this is more business as usual POTUS candidates (at least the more central ones).

I should note that I find all of them to be non-horrible but I get the concerns of someone like you about Bernie and Warren.

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9 minutes ago, Ditka Butkus said:

Between the Russian investigation and now the impeachment debacle, Its like watching the nerdy kid (democrats) tryout for the baseball team, where he continually swings and misses. You are sitting in the bleachers praying to God to let him just get a piece of it, a foul ball...anything, but nope swing and a miss over and over again. Agonizing for everyone involved.

It's more like they are crushing it 400 feet so the fences get moved back to 800 feet. 

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11 minutes ago, Ditka Butkus said:

Its like watching the nerdy kid (democrats)

Sorry, is the attack here that Democrats are nerds who read and learn?

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32 minutes ago, Sheriff Bart said:

Equivalent of going on a bender celebrating the victory of your favorite WWE wrestler. 

Oh like John du Pont celebrating "winning" a wrestling match.

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1 minute ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Sorry, is the attack here that Democrats are nerds who read and learn?

Not an attack an analogy

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5 minutes ago, JB Breakfast Club said:

It's more like they are crushing it 400 feet so the fences get moved back to 800 feet. 

Or they're trying to strike Trump out but he won't swing and his dad is the umpire.  

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1 minute ago, Ditka Butkus said:

Not an attack an analogy

But the analogy is they're smart kids who can't play baseball and they keep swinging and missing. I agree, the Trump ideology is about sheer power. It was about a republic and a Constitution, where learning and principle matter - but as you put it the proper analogy is that the Dems have just been overpowered, is that right?

 

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2 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

But the analogy is they're smart kids who can't play baseball and they keep swinging and missing. I agree, the Trump ideology is about sheer power. It was about a republic and a Constitution, where learning and principle matter - but as you put it the proper analogy is that the Dems have just been overpowered, is that right?

 

I would say socially inept. But yes the expression Might Makes Right was coined for a reason

Edited by Ditka Butkus
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11 minutes ago, JB Breakfast Club said:

It's more like they are crushing it 400 feet so the fences get moved back to 800 feet. 

If the fence being moved back is of similar strength to say a border fence, it will all blow over soon enough and the truth ball will have nothing to stop it.

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Some Republicans, even while acknowledging that Trump did what he was being accused of, says he should not be removed from office. 

Is it possible to be found guilty of the accusations, but disagree on the penalty? Granted, a censure or some other argument is essentially a punish-less penalty, but is it fair to think the punishment is also excessive?

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27 minutes ago, Ditka Butkus said:

Between the Russian investigation and now the impeachment debacle, Its like watching the nerdy kid (democrats) tryout for the baseball team, where he continually swings and misses. You are sitting in the bleachers praying to God to let him just get a piece of it, a foul ball...anything, but nope swing and a miss over and over again. Agonizing for everyone involved.

You want so hard to be liked by some and disliked by others.  Seems to me like you have not moved the needle with either group, almost like you are not being heard at all.

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So amusing that people here are blaming the Democrats as if they made any real mistakes in this process. They haven’t. 

Donald Trump is being charged with a high crime. There is a witness with direct knowledge of Trump’s guilt or innocence and the Republicans will not allow him to testify, and they’re going to acquit the President. 

Thats what the public is going to remember. This will not be a “victory” for the Republicans. It’s a debacle. 

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11 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Murkowski's statement for any who did not see it.

- Yep, there is something really weird going on here.

The continued claims of partisanship at the hands of the House Dems specifically implies that the articles themselves are false, correct?  Why then, as the most deliberative body of government and a member of the opposing party, not want prove these charges false?  This response seems just partisan in nature as that which she’s calling out

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And now a letter from Lev Parnas offering to testify, naming names and says he has proof of a criminal conspiracy. 

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Just now, timschochet said:

So amusing that people here are blaming the Democrats as if they made any real mistakes in this process. They haven’t. 

Donald Trump is being charged with a high crime. There is a witness with direct knowledge of Trump’s guilt or innocence and the Republicans will not allow him to testify, and they’re going to acquit the President. 

Thats what the public is going to remember. This will not be a “victory” for the Republicans. It’s a debacle. 

Their mistake was bringing a weak case to the Senate. They should have subpoenaed Bolton at the House level. Oh it's a victory now and probably in November

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8 minutes ago, timschochet said:

So amusing that people here are blaming the Democrats as if they made any real mistakes in this process. They haven’t. 

Donald Trump is being charged with a high crime. There is a witness with direct knowledge of Trump’s guilt or innocence and the Republicans will not allow him to testify, and they’re going to acquit the President. 

Thats what the public is going to remember. This will not be a “victory” for the Republicans. It’s a debacle. 

I think most people, including Republicans, realize what he did, but it's all baked into him being a questionable (being nice) character. I don't think this impacts his election changes one way or the other.

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1 minute ago, Ditka Butkus said:

Their mistake was bringing a weak case to the Senate. They should have subpoenaed Bolton at the House level. Oh it's a victory now and probably in November

If we're being honest, their mistake was not believing what the GOP senators were saying.  I guess they thought the GOP was bluffing.  Not sure how many times they need to be shown that what you see is exactly what you get with the GOP these days.  Hopefully, one day they learn this and adjust accordingly.

This will be the first impeachment trial ever in our US history that doesn't have any witnesses and/or additional testimony as part of the "trial".  We need to pause and think about that.  Then we can pause and think about the precedent that's been set.

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2 minutes ago, cubd8 said:

I think most people, including Republicans, realize what he did, but it's all baked into him being a questionable (being nice) character. I don't think this impacts his election changes one way or the other.

I don't.  I am absolutely confident Trump himself still doesn't get it.  We've gone from "perfect" to "he did it but it's no big deal" with everyone being dragged kicking and screaming through the goalpost shifts.

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The Republicans have set several precedents in this impeachment trial that I'm sure they're going to regret and whine about later, when being used by the Democrats.

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14 minutes ago, Ditka Butkus said:

Their mistake was bringing a weak case to the Senate. They should have subpoenaed Bolton at the House level. Oh it's a victory now and probably in November

Even if true, the Senate is to uphold justice and do the necessary thing - not condemn the House for their efforts.

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17 minutes ago, timschochet said:

And now a letter from Lev Parnas offering to testify, naming names and says he has proof of a criminal conspiracy. 

this is why no witnesses is good

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18 minutes ago, Ditka Butkus said:

Their mistake was bringing a weak case to the Senate. They should have subpoenaed Bolton at the House level. Oh it's a victory now and probably in November

So weak that even Lamar admitted it happened?  And the more details that come out...show it may even be worse than what the House charged him with?

Bolton refused...and we are still waiting in testimony to make it through the courts from before all of this

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I guess Sekulow isn't happy with the cross-examination of witnesses done by Nunes, Jordan, Collins, etc.  

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So if I'm crunching the numbers correctly, 53 people are refusing to do what approximately 245.4 million people want them to do. That seems like a gross imbalance of power and refusal to do what their bosses want them to do.

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5 minutes ago, beef said:

I guess Sekulow isn't happy with the cross-examination of witnesses done by Nunes, Jordan, Collins, etc.  

He should file some lawyer lawsuits.  

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23 minutes ago, Guinis72 said:

The Republicans have set several precedents in this impeachment trial that I'm sure they're going to regret and whine about later, when being used by the Democrats.

Imagine how absolutely bonkers certain people will be if somebody like Bernie Sanders gets to be POTUS with the free rein Trump was given.  

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It seems to me that the Republicans are winning this battle ..but losing the war.  I expect history to judge them very harshly.  I hope that backlash begins with the 2020 elections.

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Just now, OrtonToOlsen said:

Murkowski is the worst thing to come out of Alaska since Jewel. 

Well...the Palin family might object. 

 

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27 minutes ago, Guinis72 said:

The Republicans have set several precedents in this impeachment trial that I'm sure they're going to regret and whine about later, when being used by the Democrats.

This is guaranteed.  

Outside of this particular precedent, think about the reaction to a President with a (D) by their name declaring national emergency and initiating severe climate change penalties for offenders or declaring national emergency at the border and dumping resources into helping people get processed.  The options are endless.

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16 minutes ago, Kal El said:

So if I'm crunching the numbers correctly, 53 people are refusing to do what approximately 245.4 million people want them to do. That seems like a gross imbalance of power and refusal to do what their bosses want them to do.

Not really much of a Democracy when the power comes not from voters but on how much land you control. 

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I stated months ago the only possible way the Dems lose in November is if they blow it themselves.  It is getting blown.  Now we know why Pelosi was against this.  It has turned into another debacle.

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5 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Well...the Palin family might object. 

 

Curt Shilling too (his post-baseball lunacy)

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6 minutes ago, tri-man 47 said:

It seems to me that the Republicans are winning this battle ..but losing the war.  I expect history to judge them very harshly.  I hope that backlash begins with the 2020 elections.

It seems like it.  They might fool around and end up like the Federalists.

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12 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Well...the Palin family might object. 

 

Sarah would like to take time to object but she's too busy reading all the newspapers.  

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32 minutes ago, Guinis72 said:

The Republicans have set several precedents in this impeachment trial that I'm sure they're going to regret and whine about later, when being used by the Democrats.

Maybe. But I honestly wonder how many more impeachments we're going to see. I also wonder (and this first occurred to me 20 years ago during the Clinton impeachment) if Nixon didn't make a mistake by listening to Barry Goldwater.

Consider: 67 votes to remove a President. What is the largest majority any single party has had: 59? 60? And that's really rare. Almost impossible. Usually the max is about what we have now: 53-55. Which means, assuming one party is 100% behind you, you need a dozen members of the President's own party to agree to a removal. The odds against this, even for an obvious crime (and it's hard to find a more obvious crime than this one) seem pretty high. Because what this impeachment has shown us is that when the crime is obvious, the President can obstruct justice, refuse witnesses and evidence to the House, and then the Senate can blame the House for insufficient evidence.

.

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43 minutes ago, cubd8 said:

Some Republicans, even while acknowledging that Trump did what he was being accused of, says he should not be removed from office. 

Is it possible to be found guilty of the accusations, but disagree on the penalty? Granted, a censure or some other argument is essentially a punish-less penalty, but is it fair to think the punishment is also excessive?

It's not a punishment.  It's preventing the continued abuse of power. If you believe he's guilty, how can you possibly let him remain in office? 

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59 minutes ago, cubd8 said:

Some Republicans, even while acknowledging that Trump did what he was being accused of, says he should not be removed from office. 

Is it possible to be found guilty of the accusations, but disagree on the penalty? Granted, a censure or some other argument is essentially a punish-less penalty, but is it fair to think the punishment is also excessive?

I certainly can imagine this being a reasonable position in other contexts, but in this case the goalposts that we started with are nowhere near the goalposts we ended with.

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