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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread***

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6 hours ago, Slapdash said:

Susan Collins is very disappointed 

I think she’s still concerned.  Disappointed comes later.

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37 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Unbright corrupt types typically forget their lies.

Old:

>>Trump had previously denied that he sent Giuliani to Ukraine. Asked in November if he directed Giuliani to "do anything" in Ukraine, Trump said, "No, I didn't direct him,"<<

New:

>>The reversal came Thursday in a podcast interview Trump did with journalist Geraldo Rivera, who asked, "Was it strange to send Rudy Giuliani to Ukraine, your personal lawyer? Are you sorry you did that?" Trump responded, "No, not at all," and praised Giuliani's role as a "crime fighter."<<

 

It just doesn't matter. However many times he lies or obstructs justice or grifts or whatever - his supporters never lose the belief in him. Very strange.

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42 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Unbright corrupt types typically forget their lies.

Old:

>>Trump had previously denied that he sent Giuliani to Ukraine. Asked in November if he directed Giuliani to "do anything" in Ukraine, Trump said, "No, I didn't direct him,"<<

New:

>>The reversal came Thursday in a podcast interview Trump did with journalist Geraldo Rivera, who asked, "Was it strange to send Rudy Giuliani to Ukraine, your personal lawyer? Are you sorry you did that?" Trump responded, "No, not at all," and praised Giuliani's role as a "crime fighter."<<

An example of why they will never testify.

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Are we to the point where they could outright cheat in the election (change votes, etc) with no consequences?

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4 hours ago, Biff84 said:

Are we to the point where they could outright cheat in the election (change votes, etc) with no consequences?

Yes

The people involved obstruct the investigation and cover up for Trump.  They go to jail and/or get pardons.  Congress does nothing.  The playbook is proven at this point.

Edited by Dinsy Ejotuz
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3 hours ago, Biff84 said:

Are we to the point where they could outright cheat in the election (change votes, etc) with no consequences?

Really? I think the judiciary and state and local legislatures would have something to say about that.

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9 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Unbright corrupt types typically forget their lies.

Old:

>>Trump had previously denied that he sent Giuliani to Ukraine. Asked in November if he directed Giuliani to "do anything" in Ukraine, Trump said, "No, I didn't direct him,"<<

New:

>>The reversal came Thursday in a podcast interview Trump did with journalist Geraldo Rivera, who asked, "Was it strange to send Rudy Giuliani to Ukraine, your personal lawyer? Are you sorry you did that?" Trump responded, "No, not at all," and praised Giuliani's role as a "crime fighter."<<

Imagine being outsmarted by Geraldo Rivera and falling into his trap, a trap with a neon sign above it and an arrow pointing to it, because lets face it, Geraldo is no rocket surgeon.

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5 hours ago, Biff84 said:

Are we to the point where they could outright cheat in the election (change votes, etc) with no consequences?

I don't think so but the classic 2020 GOP move would be to cause voting difficulties in key states and then contest the results, citing "voting irregularities."

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2 hours ago, rockaction said:

Really? I think the judiciary and state and local legislatures would have something to say about that.

Would it be a surprise for Trump to simply pardon any of those who got in trouble?  Wouldn't surprise me at all :shrug: 

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1 minute ago, The Commish said:

Would it be a surprise for Trump to simply pardon any of those who got in trouble?  Wouldn't surprise me at all :shrug: 

His pardons were indeed not in keeping with prudential precedent, so who knows, really? I don't think so. I have more faith in the system than that sort of circular chicanery. 

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Trump says he might keep others from listening in on calls

Quote

President Donald Trump said Thursday that he might end the long-running practice of letting other administration officials listen in on presidential calls with foreign leaders. That’s after Trump’s impeachment was triggered by his July phone call with the president of Ukraine.

“I may end the practice entirely,” Trump told Geraldo Rivera in a radio interview that aired Thursday. Records experts said that was a bad idea, for multiple reasons.

The president’s impeachment stemmed from his July 25 call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and White House staffers listened in the call.

As is standard practice in any administration, the staffers, working in the secure, soundproof Situation Room in the West Wing basement, chronicled the conversation. National Security Council personnel then prepared a memorandum about the call, which serves as an official record.

Robert O’Brien, Trump’s national security adviser, said the president can conduct whatever phone calls he wants without other people being on the line.

“We can certainly comply with the Presidential Records Act and serve the president in however he’d like to have his conversations with foreign leaders,” O’Brien told reporters Thursday evening outside the White House. But he said he thinks Trump likes having Vice President Mike Pence, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo or O’Brien listening to the conversations.

“I think generally the president is happy if he’s got some of his aides with him when he’s making those calls. ... So, we’ll see how that plays out,” O’Brien said.

The White House clamped down on the distribution of those memos earlier in the Trump administration after information about the president’s calls with other heads of state, including Mexico’s, were leaked to the media, according to two people familiar with how the distribution became more limited.

Larry Pfeiffer, a 30-year U.S. intelligence veteran who managed the Situation Room during the Obama years, said his predecessor told him that the White House had stopped taping presidential calls in the 1970s after Nixon recorded 3,700 hours of conversations. Transcripts of those conversations were used by Watergate investigators and during the impeachment hearings that followed.

“The long-standing practice is something meant to help and protect the president. It allows the president and the national security adviser to track any agreements made on the call and to refute quickly and accurately any incorrect claims about the call made by the foreign side,” Pfeiffer said, adding that it allows White House staff members to follow up and implement the president’s policy.

Pfeiffer, who now directs the Michael V. Hayden Center for Intelligence, Policy, and International Security at George Mason University, said the memoranda of foreign leader calls also fulfill important historical record-keeping requirements.

“By stopping the practice, the president only shoots himself in the foot,” he said. “And one can only surmise that the president therefore has something to hide from his own staff and bureaucracy.”

Steven Aftergood, who directs the Federation of American Scientists’ Project on Government Secrecy, also said that the president has the power to limit access to his conversations. But Aftergood said it’s a “bad idea.”

“The president requires the expertise and advice of his senior officials, and they require access to these calls in order to do their job,” Aftergood said. “Secrecy here becomes self-defeating.”

- Corruption aside, basically as the government purges out experts and knowledgeable people and walls off information from actual policy makers and implementers we get worse and worse and more ineffectual as a nation.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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2 hours ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

Imagine being outsmarted by Geraldo Rivera and falling into his trap, a trap with a neon sign above it and an arrow pointing to it, because lets face it, Geraldo is no rocket surgeon.

Mind is a Al Capone's steel trap. 

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14 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Trump says he might keep others from listening in on calls

- Corruption aside, basically as the government purges out experts and knowledgeable people and walls of information from actual policy makers and implementers we get worse and worse and more ineffectual as a nation.

Nothing suspicious about this. :mellow:

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2 hours ago, rockaction said:

Really? I think the judiciary and state and local legislatures would have something to say about that.

Which states? Red states would probably just go along with it.

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The NSA to the President actually says, golly there's no need for his own NSC to know #### about the President's actual conduct of foreign policy.

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1 minute ago, Mile High said:

Which states? Red states would probably just go along with it.

I think in order for an election to even be contested, you'd have to win states heretofore known as light blue. MI, PA, sometimes WI, and VA come immediately to mind. The structure in place in those states is derived from thirty or forty years of contested party victories. I'm sure they can handle something like this. 

You're not going to be able to win only the deep blue or red states and win the election. 

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1 minute ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

The NSA to the President actually says, golly there's no need for his own NSC to know #### about the President's actual conduct of foreign policy.

SID, maybe clean up the syntax. Who says what to whom? 

eta* Got it from the article. When I see NSA capitalized, I immediately think of the agency. 

Edited by rockaction
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2 hours ago, rockaction said:

Really? I think the judiciary and state and local legislatures would have something to say about that.

I’d like to believe you’re correct but how do you explain Mitch’s refusals to bring forward the bills to protect the election? Or not using the money allotted to fight Russian interference? The NYT just put out an article about the Barr-Durham investigation and how it’s focusing on undermining the intelligence conclusion that Russia was responsible for the 2016 interference.

If in 2016 someone claimed any of these things would happen, you’d be written off fear-mongering liberal. I sure hope that it won’t happen but if you were making a plan to rig an election (or allow someone else to) how many steps of that plan are already happening?

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36 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Trump says he might keep others from listening in on calls

- Corruption aside, basically as the government purges out experts and knowledgeable people and walls off information from actual policy makers and implementers we get worse and worse and more ineffectual as a nation.

This is the Trump model. Always has been (from what I have read). He is the sole decision maker and the only one who matters. 

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1 minute ago, Biff84 said:

I’d like to believe you’re correct but how do you explain Mitch’s refusals to bring forward the bills to protect the election? Or not using the money allotted to fight Russian interference? The NYT just put out an article about the Barr-Durham investigation and how it’s focusing on undermining the intelligence conclusion that Russia was responsible for the 2016 interference.

If in 2016 someone claimed any of these things would happen, you’d be written off fear-mongering liberal. I sure hope that it won’t happen but if you were making a plan to rig an election (or allow someone else to) how many steps of that plan are already happening?

I actually think I'm thoroughly disgusted with how we're handling the election compared to last time given what we know we know. I don't have any explanation for Mitch's refusals to bring the bills to a vote. I think it's extremely short-sighted and deleterious to our democracy, but I don't think they can outright steal votes as easily as was posited. 

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40 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Trump says he might keep others from listening in on calls

- Corruption aside, basically as the government purges out experts and knowledgeable people and walls off information from actual policy makers and implementers we get worse and worse and more ineffectual as a nation.

I thought they were already doing this and White House staffers jokingly referred to it as the "Vindman Rule."

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 :(

 When Trump demanded that Gov. Cuomo drop lawsuits against him—even as the admin banned NYers from the trusted traveler program—"it was an almost uncanny parallel to one of the post-acquittal scenarios that the House impeachment managers had warned about."

https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-trumps-washington/donald-trump-a-president-so-unhinged-that-even-bill-barr-says-hes-out-of-control?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=onsite-share&utm_brand=the-new-yorker&utm_social-type=earned

 

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Apropos of nothing. I have lived at the same address for 21 years now.  I registered to vote from that address within a week of moving in.  I have voted every election since then.  I get mail ballots sent there and I pay property taxes to the same Clerk and Recorder who is responsible for voter registration and for conducting the elections.  I am known to live at my address and to vote therefrom.

 

today I opened a piece of mail from the Clerk and Recorder.  She states that I need to update my voter registration me having just moved.  What?  Some honest glitch in the system?

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2 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

Apropos of nothing. I have lived at the same address for 21 years now.  I registered to vote from that address within a week of moving in.  I have voted every election since then.  I get mail ballots sent there and I pay property taxes to the same Clerk and Recorder who is responsible for voter registration and for conducting the elections.  I am known to live at my address and to vote therefrom.

 

today I opened a piece of mail from the Clerk and Recorder.  She states that I need to update my voter registration me having just moved.  What?  Some honest glitch in the system?

Identity theft.

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28 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

Apropos of nothing. I have lived at the same address for 21 years now.  I registered to vote from that address within a week of moving in.  I have voted every election since then.  I get mail ballots sent there and I pay property taxes to the same Clerk and Recorder who is responsible for voter registration and for conducting the elections.  I am known to live at my address and to vote therefrom.

 

today I opened a piece of mail from the Clerk and Recorder.  She states that I need to update my voter registration me having just moved.  What?  Some honest glitch in the system?

Ha....county in NC my mom lives in (been there for 45+years...same house) had to reregister to vote.  The minimum wage person answering the phones suggested they purgerd her and my father assuming no one lives in the same place for that long :lmao:

Best part is, she voted for the people who are now insisting on these "voter registration clean up efforts".

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30 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

Apropos of nothing. I have lived at the same address for 21 years now.  I registered to vote from that address within a week of moving in.  I have voted every election since then.  I get mail ballots sent there and I pay property taxes to the same Clerk and Recorder who is responsible for voter registration and for conducting the elections.  I am known to live at my address and to vote therefrom.

 

today I opened a piece of mail from the Clerk and Recorder.  She states that I need to update my voter registration me having just moved.  What?  Some honest glitch in the system?

We've seen your posts here at FBGs.  We don't need people like you voting in our elections.  :P

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7 hours ago, Biff84 said:

Are we to the point where they could outright cheat in the election (change votes, etc) with no consequences?

Absolutely.

 

3 hours ago, rockaction said:

Really? I think the judiciary and state and local legislatures would have something to say about that.

1. The judiciary has had lots to say already.  Without enforcement, it's meaningless.

2. Doesn't seem to have moved the legislature in Tennessee so much.

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Or Georgia.  Or Ohio, when a bunch of votes were "lost".  It's not shocking when there are massive discrepancies between numbers of people who vote and numbers of votes cast in a precinct anymore.  It happens somewhere basically every election cycle.  

As long as they present an explanation - it doesn't even have to be reasonable - they'll get away with it.  

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5 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

2. Doesn't seem to have moved the legislature in Tennessee so much.

I think we might be in agreement again. Voting machines, in my mind, are an awful idea and always have been. It's a shame we're not rectifying the situation. 

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1 minute ago, Henry Ford said:

Or Georgia.  Or Ohio, when a bunch of votes were "lost".  It's not shocking when there are massive discrepancies between numbers of people who vote and numbers of votes cast in a precinct anymore.  It happens somewhere basically every election cycle.  

As long as they present an explanation - it doesn't even have to be reasonable - they'll get away with it.  

It seems to me less malfeasance than incompetence and sampling. For example, the audit in the article you linked to. That strikes me as statistically sound but awfully prone to human error.

I do agree that the judiciary and the oversight committees need to be strengthened. Not sure what the problem with that is. Much like vets and health care, this seems like a bipartisan issue nonpareil.

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Just now, rockaction said:

It seems to me less malfeasance than incompetence and sampling. For example, the audit in the article you linked to. That strikes me as statistically sound but awfully prone to human error.

I do agree that the judiciary and the oversight committees need to be strengthened. Not sure what the problem with that is. Much like vets and health care, this seems like a bipartisan issue nonpareil.

You'd imagine.  Frankly, if you're overseeing a voting precinct and it can be proven that your precinct "lost" 1/4 of its votes, your entire staff should be immediately fired and there should be fines or perhaps jail time/probation for someone.

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5 hours ago, Henry Ford said:
12 hours ago, Biff84 said:

Are we to the point where they could outright cheat in the election (change votes, etc) with no consequences?

Absolutely.

I hope they appease Trump and change them to reflect receiving 90% of the vote.

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5 hours ago, [scooter] said:
5 hours ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

Apropos of nothing. I have lived at the same address for 21 years now.  I registered to vote from that address within a week of moving in.  I have voted every election since then.  I get mail ballots sent there and I pay property taxes to the same Clerk and Recorder who is responsible for voter registration and for conducting the elections.  I am known to live at my address and to vote therefrom.

 

today I opened a piece of mail from the Clerk and Recorder.  She states that I need to update my voter registration me having just moved.  What?  Some honest glitch in the system?

Identity theft.

You could have waited until the tax return check arrived. :hot:

 

DW, congratulations on your wife having octoputlets last year.

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6 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Trump says he might keep others from listening in on calls

- Corruption aside, basically as the government purges out experts and knowledgeable people and walls off information from actual policy makers and implementers we get worse and worse and more ineffectual as a nation.

sounds like Trump learned his lesson from impeachment: don't get caught.

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26 minutes ago, Sheriff Bart said:

You could have waited until the tax return check arrived. :hot:

 

DW, congratulations on your wife having octoputlets last year.

And when I find out who the father is he is going to have some answering to do!

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12 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

And when I find out who the father is he is going to have some answering to do!

I'm not a scientist, but it sounds like he's an octopus.  Be careful.

Edited by Henry Ford
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1 hour ago, Henry Ford said:

I'm not a scientist, but it sounds like he's an octopus.  Be careful.

Damn cephalopods.  That explains all the hickies.

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2 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

Damn cephalopods.  That explains all the hickies.

Do cephalopods stay in your ears? Or do they suck...

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2 minutes ago, Snorkelson said:

Do cephalopods stay in your ears? Or do they suck...

"asking for a friend"

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22 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

Damn cephalopods.  That explains all the hickies.

The good news is that they are highly intelligent. Probably get scholarships. 

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16 hours ago, Sheriff Bart said:

The good news is that they are highly intelligent. Probably get scholarships. 

Thanks for reminding me to always look on the bright side of life.

 

Life's a piece of ####
When you look at it
Life's a laugh and death's a joke, it's true
You'll see it's all a show
Keep 'em laughin' as you go
Just remember that the last laugh is on you
And

Always look on the bright side of life
Always look on the right side of life

Edited by Ditkaless Wonders
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Quote

As the Senate impeachment trial of President Trump drew to a close in Washington earlier this month, federal prosecutors in New York contacted witnesses and sought to collect additional documents in an investigation related to Trump’s personal attorney Rudolph W. Giuliani, according to people familiar with their activities.

The recent steps — including an interview with a witness last week — indicate that the probe involving Giuliani and two of his former associates is moving forward, even as the Justice Department has set up a process to evaluate claims Giuliani is making about alleged wrongdoing in Ukraine related to former vice president Joe Biden.

Attorney General William P. Barr said this week that the department had established an “intake process” to accept information about Biden gathered by the president’s personal attorney. Officials confirmed Giuliani’s tips are being routed to the U.S. attorney’s office in Pittsburgh.

At the same time, the U.S. attorney’s office in the Southern District of New York — which Giuliani led in the 1980s — appears to be continuing its wide-ranging investigation of his activities and those of his former associates Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, including their efforts in Ukraine.

Full article.

Edited by Dinsy Ejotuz
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1 hour ago, Sheriff Bart said:
1 hour ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

Damn cephalopods.  That explains all the hickies.

The good news is that they are highly intelligent. Probably get scholarships. 

There's also some decently credible theories that they are alien.....

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37 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

There's also some decently credible theories that they are alien.....

Never heard of such a theory. 

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