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Biabreakable

Tyler Johnson WR Tampa Bay Buccaneers

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29 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

Any substance to these off the field concerns?

 

No idea to be honest. Miller didn't go into detail to my knowledge but has stood firm. Who knows what his source is. Others have accused him of character assassination of course. 

But the senior bowl snub, from respected organizers of the event, could be something.

Guess we won't know till we see what the NFL thinks or more rumors emerge. He looks like a good football player. 

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9 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

No idea to be honest. Miller didn't go into detail to my knowledge but has stood firm. Who knows what his source is. Others have accused him of character assassination of course. 

But the senior bowl snub, from respected organizers of the event, could be something.

Guess we won't know till we see what the NFL thinks or more rumors emerge. He looks like a good football player. 

I will keep looking into it.

Thanks for bringing it up. I agree the senior bowl snub seems odd.

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Just something funny from reading the Gophers thread I found.

I guess Matt Miller had Tyler Johnson with a 1st round grade in late September and then is saying he is only a 6th rounder in November.

 

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57 minutes ago, Iceman03 said:

Seems to be. They don’t overtly talk about this stuff. I also heard he had some trouble with the previous Minnesota coaching staff before the current staff got put in place.

That would probably be Tracy Claeys and honestly a lot of people had issues with that guy.

Edited by Andy Dufresne

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12 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

Just something funny from reading the Gophers thread I found.

I guess Matt Miller had Tyler Johnson with a 1st round grade in late September and then is saying he is only a 6th rounder in November.

 

 

That is true and it's what really caught my eye. He only makes massive swings like that when he's hearing things from people who know more than him. It obviously isn't due to his talent. 

I saw what you posted about it possibly being about a scout perceiving an "entitled" attitude. That would be an extreme adjustment if so, wow. I figured there would be more meat to it than that. 

Then again, homer boards for the college team he's on would be a friendlier environment towards him...but that's where you can also find the juiciest rumors so who knows. I still remember the things that surfaced from Miami boards about Hernandez after his arrest...scouting reports from when he was recruited saying things like "he'll either be a HOFer or in prison, no in-between"...before he ever had an arrest record! Homer boards can be a valuable source of info, if a bit biased sometimes. 

Edited by ConnSKINS26

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1 minute ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

That is true and it's what really caught my eye. He only makes massive swings like that when he's hearing things from people who know more than him. It obviously isn't due to his talent. 

I saw what you posted about it possibly being about a scout perceiving an "entitled" attitude. That would be an extreme adjustment if so, wow. I figured there would be more meat to it than that. 

Then again, homer boards for the college team he's on would be a friendlier environment towards him...but that's where you can also find the juiciest rumors so who knows. I still remember the things that surfaced from Miami boards about Hernandez after his arrest...scouting reports from when he was recruited saying things like "he'll either be a HOFer or in prison, no inbetween...before he ever had an arrest record! Homer boards can be a valuable source of info, if a bit biased sometimes. 

Yeah I will keep looking.

From what I have gathered so far Tyler Johnson is a role model within the community where he grew up and is a good person. Was not involved with the scandals the Gophers had a few years ago which led to their current head coach being hired and that Johnson has been a leader and good example throughout.

This is leading me to think that Miller may have been pumped with misinformation and he is reacting strongly to it. But that may be giving him the benefit of the doubt. I am not sure. I think saying controversial things helps him get attention which is one of his goals as another possibility although I think its bad publicity for his brand if unfounded.

 

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2 hours ago, Biabreakable said:

Speed does not equal talent and that is the only talent that Bateman has more of.

So I disagree although Bateman looks promising as well.

Where did I say speed is the only talent that Bateman has more of?  I said, "better talent".  He is a better prospect than Johnson.

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34 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Where did I say speed is the only talent that Bateman has more of?  I said, "better talent".  He is a better prospect than Johnson.

Because why?

What talents does he possess that Johnson does not?

What is your reasoning for thinking Bateman is a better prodpect?

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11 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

Because why?

What talents does he possess that Johnson does not?

What is your reasoning for thinking Bateman is a better prodpect?

I like Bateman's physical make up to go along with his speed.  I think he is a better athlete than Johnson and has better overall WR ceiling.  I can see Bateman as a WR1.  I don’t think anyone sees Johnson as a WR1.  Plus Johnson has inconsistent hands.  He is a good route runner however.

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Are there any plausible reasons why he was snubbed from the Senior Bowl other than he’s got some kind of personality/behavior issue? Just based on quality of play and name value? I would expect him to be one of the top 5 or so marquee names for the Senior Bowl. 

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1 minute ago, Ilov80s said:

Are there any plausible reasons why he was snubbed from the Senior Bowl other than he’s got some kind of personality/behavior issue? Just based on quality of play and name value? I would expect him to be one of the top 5 or so marquee names for the Senior Bowl. 

It doesn’t make sense for Austin Mack to be there over Johnson. 

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8 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Are there any plausible reasons why he was snubbed from the Senior Bowl other than he’s got some kind of personality/behavior issue? Just based on quality of play and name value? I would expect him to be one of the top 5 or so marquee names for the Senior Bowl. 

Wasn't the personality/behavioral issues debunked from local writers for the Gophers?  I thought I remember some of them coming and saying that Tyler Johnson was a great teammate with a great attitude.  

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3 minutes ago, Zyphros said:

Wasn't the personality/behavioral issues debunked from local writers for the Gophers?  I thought I remember some of them coming and saying that Tyler Johnson was a great teammate with a great attitude.  

Maybe but also if they are trying to continue to cover the Gophers and get great access, are they really going to tear apart a star player?

Why wouldn’t they invite him to Senior Bowl?

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2 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Maybe but also if they are trying to continue to cover the Gophers and get great access, are they really going to tear apart a star player?

Why wouldn’t they invite him to Senior Bowl?

You're not wrong ha, but it doesn't exactly answer your Senior Bowl question either.  I'm just as curious.  If it's true that he is a hard worker, good teammate, good listener with good behavior then it makes it even weirder.  

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Until something tangible is alleged about him, I am personally chalking this up as a non-story. Too bad he got snubbed. Could be anything, including something stupid like conference bias. No big 10 receivers were invited.

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9 minutes ago, Cjw_55106 said:

Until something tangible is alleged about him, I am personally chalking this up as a non-story. Too bad he got snubbed. Could be anything, including something stupid like conference bias. No big 10 receivers were invited.

Yeah I was looking at the list of WR who are in the senior bowl and Pittman JR the most interesting one.

The rest of those guys are not on any rookie prospect lists I have been looking at for the polls.

I think Johnson has enough good tape that NFL teams didn't need to see him there to know who he is.

Since people like to partition data and look for clues from small sample sizes, I wonder how many top 10 WR went to the senior bowl historically? I am guessing not too many.

That TD by Mahomes just now just ridiculous lol

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I’m starting to see why the NFL community may be a bit agitated by him. You don’t skip these things. You play in the shrine game if you can’t get in the Senior Bowl and you run the damn 40 when it’s laser timed. This isn’t like back when Charlie Casserly was aiming his stop watch like a ####### bow and arrow.

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3 hours ago, Iceman03 said:

I’m starting to see why the NFL community may be a bit agitated by him. You don’t skip these things. You play in the shrine game if you can’t get in the Senior Bowl and you run the damn 40 when it’s laser timed. This isn’t like back when Charlie Casserly was aiming his stop watch like a ####### bow and arrow.

It could be just a personality thing that's rubbed teams the wrong way, it could be bad advice from an agent.  Personally I like it when unknowns DONT do combine stuff, but if you're as far down the totem pole as TJ seems to be, it would have been best to do it.  At least make up a story about a minor injury and preparing for pro-day because you'll be "fully healthy" by then.  

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There is enough smoke here for me to take him completely off my board 

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Quote

NFL Media's Lance Zierlein compares Minnesota WR Tyler Johnson to New England Patriots WR Jakobi Meyers.

Johnson (6'1/206) was twice named as a first-team All-Big Ten performer, catching 86 passes for 1,318 yards and 13 touchdowns last season for the Gophers. Johnson dominated smaller corners out of the slot showing excellent instincts and body control when shielding defenders from the football. His lack of high-end physical attributes will likely limit him to a slot role in the NFL. Johnson didn't do anything to quell athleticism and speed concerns by skipping testing at the combine. Zierlein grades Johnson as a quality backup who could work his way into a starting role.

SOURCE: NFL.com

Mar 14, 2020, 3:12 PM ET

 

 

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In on this guy, especially as a mid round pick. 

Quote

WR TYLER JOHNSON, MINNESOTA

Johnson is a top-50 prospect in PFF’s eyes, but he’s being viewed as a Day 3 pick in everyone else’s, and most of it has to do with his low-level athleticism and overall poor speed. That is being scrutinized far too much. He is one of the most refined route-runners in the class and uses that, as opposed to speed, to generate separation. Dating back to 2018, Johnson has generated a step or more of separation against single coverage 55.1% of the time, a figure that ranks 14th among 154 qualifying wide receivers and 14 percentage points above the FBS average. And he’s made college defensive backs look like chumps on contested balls. Johnson generated the highest grade on contested targets since 2018, catching a top-tier 60.4% of his total contested targets in that span. We all know his athletic limitations, but don’t overrate that fact. He’s one of the craftiest route-runners in the class, which is part of the reason why he shouldn’t be available beyond the second round.

Not having testing numbers is gonna push him down. 

He's mocked in 3rd round, and I bet he falls further.

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29 minutes ago, massraider said:

In on this guy, especially as a mid round pick. 

Not having testing numbers is gonna push him down. 

He's mocked in 3rd round, and I bet he falls further.

Love him. I’d be thrilled if the Ravens snagged him late 3rd. And I’ll be targeting him heavily in my drafts.

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I am too. But not if he falls too far. As a 3rd or 4th round pick I love his potential to overcome the odds. He may not check the athletic boxes...he may or may not have some neck-up issues...but the dude can ball.

But if he falls deep into day 3? I'm skeptical he ever gets much of a shot. His draft pick # and team that drafts him will dictate whether he's a priority for me or I send him down to flier land. 

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26 minutes ago, Cobbler1 said:

Love him. I’d be thrilled if the Ravens snagged him late 3rd. And I’ll be targeting him heavily in my drafts.

Ravens fan?

Really hoping they get Lynn Bowden and/or Antonio Gibson.  

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4 minutes ago, massraider said:

Ravens fan?

Really hoping they get Lynn Bowden and/or Antonio Gibson.  

As a Browns fan, I don't.

For our game's sake Bowden would be fine though. I don't have any intentions on drafting him because I don't think he'll ever have a big enough role no matter where he goes. But him going to Baltimore would cause others to draft him early enough to allow one more player I would draft to fall.

Gibson's a guy that's either going to fly up or tumble down my board depending on where he goes. I hope it's up. I think he has the skills and traits for a big role, but his being a tweener may give others pause.

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18 minutes ago, massraider said:

Ravens fan?

Really hoping they get Lynn Bowden and/or Antonio Gibson.  

 

11 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

As a Browns fan, I don't.

For our game's sake Bowden would be fine though. I don't have any intentions on drafting him because I don't think he'll ever have a big enough role no matter where he goes. But him going to Baltimore would cause others to draft him early enough to allow one more player I would draft to fall.

Gibson's a guy that's either going to fly up or tumble down my board depending on where he goes. I hope it's up. I think he has the skills and traits for a big role, but his being a tweener may give others pause.

Would be very happy with either of those guys in the right spot. I think that’s a dimension of the offense they’ll be looking to add- a wr or gadget guy who can do jet sweeps. Chris Moore did this sometimes but he’s meh. Hollywood is electric but too small/fragile to do it regularly. A Deebo Samuel/AJ Brown type who are thick and can do things with the ball in the open field would add a extra layer of difficulty for a defense to defend. Shenault would be a high end version of that guy with the obvious injury question marks. Bowden or Gibson would fit the bill. Would love someone for that role and then a guy like Tyler Johnson who can win contested balls.

And to Mac’s first point, yeah if TJ drops to the 5th/6th you’d have to drop him down your board to guys closer to that range. He can still be a target though. Just later or as a post draft add.

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50 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

 

But if he falls deep into day 3? I'm skeptical he ever gets much of a shot. His draft pick # and team that drafts him will dictate whether he's a priority for me or I send him down to flier land. 

Valid. Very valid. Can't win a job if you don't get any reps.

I can see him dropping to the 5th, because of lack of testing. In this draft, with so many WRs, I'm having a tough time seeing teams wanting to risk a 3rd rounder (better be a starter soon) on a guy with no testing numbers.

If the WR gold rush slows down in the 3rd round, he could fall farther.

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2 hours ago, massraider said:

In on this guy, especially as a mid round pick. 

Not having testing numbers is gonna push him down. 

He's mocked in 3rd round, and I bet he falls further.

Its possible I suppose. I doubt it though.

From doing mock drafts and reading folks comments, Tyler Johnson seems like a lot of peoples favorite sleeper to pick in the 3rd round which suggests to me the demand is too high for him to fall further than that.

I think Johnson and Edwards still go pretty high in the NFL draft, but we will see.

Whoever gets him is going to get a good player in my opinion. I think Johnson is similar to Jarvis Landry and possibly better.

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6 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

Its possible I suppose. I doubt it though.

From doing mock drafts and reading folks comments, Tyler Johnson seems like a lot of peoples favorite sleeper to pick in the 3rd round which suggests to me the demand is too high for him to fall further than that.

I think Johnson and Edwards still go pretty high in the NFL draft, but we will see.

Whoever gets him is going to get a good player in my opinion. I think Johnson is similar to Jarvis Landry and possibly better.

If that happens then I think you're right about what he'll cost in our game. Not everyone is going to be hot for him, but I'd be shocked if there are less than multiple owners in every league that are. I've got 2.12, 2.10, and 2.9 in my leagues (IDP, fwiw) and I won't be afraid to use that pick on Johnson if his draft day price dictates. Cause if I wait there's a good chance he won't be there. Now, will he be the best available at those spots? :shrug:So I won't force him as the pick. I just realize by passing on him given those circumstances that I probably won't be getting him.

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Quote

Bucs selected Minnesota WR Tyler Johnson with the No. 161 overall pick in the 2020 NFL Draft.

Johnson (6’1/206) was a three-year starting slot receiver for the Gophers with nice hands and size. He posted back-to-back 1,000-yard seasons as a junior and senior and holds the Gophers’ career record for receiving yards (3,305) and touchdowns (33). On tape, he uses his hands very well and makes plays in traffic, but he isn't a natural separator and has below-average burst. Despite the record-breaking production, Johnson wasn’t invited to the Senior Bowl, a sign the NFL had little interest in him throughout the draft process. He was also dinged by scouts for not competing, by choice, at the NFL Combine. The Bucs are a great landing spot in that Johnson gets to learn from Tom Brady, but his early career path to targets is completely blocked by the prodigious talent in front of him.

Apr 25, 2020, 2:50 PM ET

 

 

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Yeah Godwin, Evans and Gronk are all great players and target hogs.

But Tom Brady has made quite a career for himself just throwing quck crossing routes and moving the chains. Despite Johnsons assumed lack of athleticism, he kept getting open and making plays and moving the chains consistently I mean if he can't separate then how did he make all of those plays??

 I can see Brady taking advantage of that despite all of the other targets he has available.

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I like the kid but like said above he is buried and when he gets his opportunity it is probably post Brady era. 

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32 minutes ago, massraider said:

He's buried.  This year, anyway.

Yeah this is a bummer.  My leagues have three year taxi squads then you have to assign a contract or cut so he's a very tough one to draft now.  Too bad because bang-for-buck he was one of my favorite targets.

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13 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

Yeah this is a bummer.  My leagues have three year taxi squads then you have to assign a contract or cut so he's a very tough one to draft now.  Too bad because bang-for-buck he was one of my favorite targets.

If he's not doing anything by year 3 you're probably dropping him anyway, no?

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I don’t hate it for dynasty. Hate that the Ravens didn’t snag snag him. His draft capital is a ding no doubt but now I can get him later and will adjust accordingly. Godwin is on the last year of his deal and will need to get paid. Can they afford to pay 2 wrs top money?

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Path to relevance for 2021:

Howard traded
Gronk re-retires
Evans loses a step, potential trade or cap casualty
Godwin get franchised/traded after blowing up on social media after talks break down
Vaughn not a short target monster

Some combo of that needed.  

I'll take him in the 4th, and taxi squad him for a year, see what next spring looks like.  

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Just now, massraider said:

Path to relevance for 2021:

Howard traded
Gronk re-retires
Evans loses a step, potential trade or cap casualty
Godwin get franchised/traded after blowing up on social media after talks break down
Vaughn not a short target monster

Some combo of that needed.  

I'll take him in the 4th, and taxi squad him for a year, see what next spring looks like.  

He should easily be their 3rd wr right? The easiest path is one of Evans/Godwin gets hurt.

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12 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

If he's not doing anything by year 3 you're probably dropping him anyway, no?

Yes but that's kind of my point.  The taxi squad used properly is to stash a guy for a year or two until he's got some value on your roster or in trade and then bring in the next guy.  Spots are too valuable to hold a guy for three years.  Tyler Johnson might have a full 3 year wait just due to the roster ahead of him and even then you're not going to know what his 2nd contract status is when you have to make a promote decision.

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I dunno he sounds like an ideal taxi squad candidate to me as well. Obviously don’t know your league settings though 

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7 minutes ago, Cobbler1 said:

I dunno he sounds like an ideal taxi squad candidate to me as well. Obviously don’t know your league settings though 

Definitely. 

 

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