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Strategy Question - If You Were In Charge Of Democrats - Impeach Trump? (1 Viewer)

If you were in charge of the Democrats, would you move towards impeaching President Trump?

  • Absolutely move towards impeaching

    Votes: 59 60.8%

  • Probably move towards impeaching

    Votes: 13 13.4%

  • On the fence

    Votes: 2 2.1%

  • Probably not move towards impeaching

    Votes: 9 9.3%

  • Absolutely not move towards impeaching

    Votes: 14 14.4%
  • Total voters
    97
Joe Bryant

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
Two assumptions here.

1. You magically have control over the Democratic Party and your job is to have a Democrat win the 2020 Presidential Election.

2. This is not about right or wrong or morality. This is about winning or losing. 

Would you move towards impeaching President Trump?

 
Joe Bryant said:
Two assumptions here.

1. You magically have control over the Democratic Party and your job is to have a Democrat win the 2020 Presidential Election.

2. This is not about right or wrong or morality. This is about winning or losing. 

Would you move towards impeaching President Trump?
Click to expand...
#2 is a big factor. The only reason to impeach is because it's the right thing to do for the country. Not the right thing to do for self preservation. But, they are elected to protect the country and the Constitution. 

One should not hinder the other. 

 
"Absolutely move towards impeaching".  I have been a bit hesitant to move towards impeachment, but this current scandal, which his own summary of the phone call admits, is enough to move on.  I have faith that you win more elections when you do the right things then win when you don't.

 
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If I was in charge of the DNC I absolutely would move toward impeaching Trump and labeling the allegations the most egregious abuse of Presidential powers.  If I was in charge of the GOP I absolutely would back Trump and portray the impeachment inquiry as a witch hunt or a nothing burger or a vendetta from some rogue operative.

So apparently I need to be in charge of neither because both are acting EXACTLY as I would expect.  To hell with truth, just win baby.  One side has to be wrong, but both are entrenched.

 
I support impeachment of this President... its time.

I also have every confidence in the world that the Democrats will blow this somehow.

 
I I want to win the election and don't care about right/wrong or morals and solely see it as a political move.  I'm impeaching. He has enough issues that impeachment could be framed away from just being political (as you've laid out) to being a moral/"'health of the country" issue.  Impeaching him....

A) Forces him to use resources to defend himself.

 B) Forces him to concentrate on something other than his political agenda.

C) Has the potential to open up his closets to find more skeletons.

D) "Impeached President Donald Trump" is a great way to describe him in news broadcasts, political ads etc. etc.

I don't think his base swells because he's impeached.  His people can't vote more than once.......but I do think the embarrassment of the label  "Impeached" would cause people in the middle to hesitate more about voting for him.  

 
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I don’t have any special insight into how it will play with the electorate. I suspect it’s largely a wash. But I also don’t think you can ever expect mainstream support for impeachment until you move for impeachment. If the House is going to play Hamlet on it, they can’t expect voters to push them there. 

So to me, you cant divorce the moral and ethical considerations. When nobody can really tell you how it will play with the electorate, you should ask yourself one question. “Is this something I feel strongly enough about to lose an election over?”  I know my answer and I’d hope the majority of my party would feel the same. 

 
Assuming we’re just talking about winning and losing and not about right or wrong: 

you gotta impeach. Main reason is it energizes the base. If Trump survives your base will come out in droves in the next election and there are way more Democrats out there than Republicans.  

In terms of straight politics, this should be a win win. Impeach and remove, you get rid of Trump. Impeach and the Republicans prevent removal, you probably win the Presidency, House and Senate. 

 
Political suicide for the Dems.  Not only an advantage to Trump, but it will hamper Dems in Congress as well for 2020.  The American people aren't in favor of impeachment, but they are in favor of things getting done by Congress and it hasn't because of their fixation on Trump and not their constituents.   Their constituents would much rather see them fulfill their promises that got them elected than be preoccupied with Donald Trump.  They've gotten absolutely nothing done.

 
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Joe Bryant said:
Two assumptions here.

1. You magically have control over the Democratic Party and your job is to have a Democrat win the 2020 Presidential Election.

2. This is not about right or wrong or morality. This is about winning or losing. 

Would you move towards impeaching President Trump?
Click to expand...
Definitely impeach which is what is right and is the strategy to win IMO.

 
JohnnyU said:
Political suicide for the Dems.  Not only an advantage to Trump, but it will hamper Dems in Congress as well for 2020.  The American people aren't in favor of impeachment, but they are in favor of things getting done by Congress and it hasn't because of their fixation on Trump and not their constituents. 
Click to expand...
What if polls next week show the majority in favor of the impeachment inquiry? Will your opinion change?

 
JohnnyU said:

Political suicide for the Dems. Not only an advantage to Trump, but it will hamper Dems in Congress as well for 2020. The American people aren't in favor of impeachment, but they are in favor of things getting done by Congress and it hasn't because of their fixation on Trump and not their constituents.
Click to expand...

Eh, Trump supporters said the same thing about Russiagate and the 2018 elections. Not only did the Democrats win a higher-than-expected number of seats in 2018, but Trump's approval rating has stagnated.
 
JohnnyU said:
Political suicide for the Dems.  Not only for Trump, but Congress as well.  The American people aren't in favor of impeachment, but they are in favor of things getting done by Congress and it hasn't because of their fixation on Trump and not their constituents. 
Click to expand...
I'm in favor of Congress doing their job with investigating evidence of corruption and wrong doing of the president.  

 
LOL at “things getting done in Congress.”  Mitch hasn’t needed an impeachment inquiry to strangle every bill the House has passed in its crib. 

The implication that our lawmakers can’t walk and chew gum at the same time is also amusing. 

 
Serious answer.  Absolutely not.  It would set a very dangerous precedent that a President can get impeached just because the opposing party doesn't like him or his policies.  Russia was a nothingburger yet we had a huge number of folks including one of staff members @Maurile Tremblay foolishly calling for impeachment.  

At this point with the Ukraine whistke blower there simply is nothing proven to justify impeachment.  That may change but for now it too is a nothing burger.

 
timschochet said:
Assuming we’re just talking about winning and losing and not about right or wrong: 

you gotta impeach. Main reason is it energizes the base. If Trump survives your base will come out in droves in the next election and there are way more Democrats out there than Republicans.  

In terms of straight politics, this should be a win win. Impeach and remove, you get rid of Trump. Impeach and the Republicans prevent removal, you probably win the Presidency, House and Senate. 
Click to expand...
That is what I can never figure out.  You are absolutely right there ARE more democrats than republicans; and yet you see so many republicans still in public office.  How can that be?  Just by sheer numbers you'd think the DNC should be able to overwhelm the GOP.

I was looking at Gallup data (that only goes back to 2004) -  the average poll respondents that say they are GOP is ~29%, dnc ~32% and independent ~37%.

of independent the percentage that lean GOP ~42%, dnc ~48%.

So while 3-4% more identify as democrats than republicans, the independents lean democrat by 6%.

These are just gross numbers, not segregated by any demographics - but still it adds up to millions of more democrat voters (one number I saw was 42 million dem vs 30 million rep).

Is it just gross mismanagement of getting out the vote that ever allows dems to lose any elections to reps?

Sorry went on a sidetrack there, just startled me to see the gross disparity.

 
Don't Noonan said:
And always on the wrong side of facts!
Click to expand...
False...the national polling was extremely accurate as to the popular vote.

This has been shown many times on this board.

Its not difficult...but for the alias trolling me and you agreeing with him...the facts don't seem to matter.

Here are more facts yet again proving what Im saying.

https://news.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/198155/national-polling-accurately-nails-popular-vote.aspx

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/23/national-polling-in-2016-may-have-been-better-than-polling-in-2012/

https://www.aapor.org/Education-Resources/Reports/An-Evaluation-of-2016-Election-Polls-in-the-U-S.aspx

 
Don't Noonan said:
Serious answer.  Absolutely not.  It would set a very dangerous precedent that a President can get impeached just because the opposing party doesn't like him or his policies.  Russia was a nothingburger yet we had a huge number of folks including one of staff members @Maurile Tremblay foolishly calling for impeachment.  

At this point with the Ukraine whistke blower there simply is nothing proven to justify impeachment.  That may change but for now it too is a nothing burger.
Click to expand...
It has nothing to do with not liking him or his policies.  It has to do with his inappropriate and impeachable behavior while in office.

What does being a staff member here have to do with anything?

 
Don't Noonan said:
Serious answer.  Absolutely not.  It would set a very dangerous precedent that a President can get impeached just because the opposing party doesn't like him or his policies.  Russia was a nothingburger yet we had a huge number of folks including one of staff members @Maurile Tremblay foolishly calling for impeachment.  

At this point with the Ukraine whistke blower there simply is nothing proven to justify impeachment.  That may change but for now it too is a nothing burger.
Click to expand...
10 instances of obstruction + verified Russian interference

What kind of oblivious... person... calls that a nothingburger? Obstruction of justice is impeachable, so Maurile is no fool. The only fools are people who think obstruction of justice isn't an impeachable offense. Ignorance should not be celebrated.

 
A week ago I would have said no, but Ukraine is entirely different.  I think the more people read and learn about it, the more people will realize that Trump is unfit for office and does not understand the public trust that goes with the position (diehards excluded).  Just the preliminary steps have already yielded some new facts and additional facts will come out.  While we are all pretty politically active here, a lot of people are still a bit behind on understanding what happened, and keeping it in the news cycle will give people more opportunities to learn the true facts about it.

 
sho nuff said:
False...the national polling was extremely accurate as to the popular vote.

This has been shown many times on this board.

Its not difficult...but for the alias trolling me and you agreeing with him...the facts don't seem to matter.

Here are more facts yet again proving what Im saying.

https://news.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/198155/national-polling-accurately-nails-popular-vote.aspx

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/23/national-polling-in-2016-may-have-been-better-than-polling-in-2012/

https://www.aapor.org/Education-Resources/Reports/An-Evaluation-of-2016-Election-Polls-in-the-U-S.aspx
Click to expand...
bUt tHReE MiLLiOn iLlEgaLs VotEd!!!

 
sho nuff said:
False...the national polling was extremely accurate as to the popular vote.

This has been shown many times on this board.

Its not difficult...but for the alias trolling me and you agreeing with him...the facts don't seem to matter.

Here are more facts yet again proving what Im saying.

https://news.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/198155/national-polling-accurately-nails-popular-vote.aspx

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/23/national-polling-in-2016-may-have-been-better-than-polling-in-2012/

https://www.aapor.org/Education-Resources/Reports/An-Evaluation-of-2016-Election-Polls-in-the-U-S.aspx
Click to expand...
You conveniently leave out the polls predicting Hillary in a landslide for the WINNER/LOSER, not popular vote.

 
JohnnyU said:
sho nuff said:
False...the national polling was extremely accurate as to the popular vote.

This has been shown many times on this board.

Its not difficult...but for the alias trolling me and you agreeing with him...the facts don't seem to matter.

Here are more facts yet again proving what Im saying.

https://news.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/198155/national-polling-accurately-nails-popular-vote.aspx

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/23/national-polling-in-2016-may-have-been-better-than-polling-in-2012/

https://www.aapor.org/Education-Resources/Reports/An-Evaluation-of-2016-Election-Polls-in-the-U-S.aspx
Click to expand...
You conveniently leave out the polls predicting Hillary in a landslide for the WINNER/LOSER, not popular vote.
Click to expand...
Can you include them please?

 
JohnnyU said:
Political suicide for the Dems.  Not only an advantage to Trump, but it will hamper Dems in Congress as well for 2020.  The American people aren't in favor of impeachment, but they are in favor of things getting done by Congress and it hasn't because of their fixation on Trump and not their constituents.   Their constituents would much rather see them fulfill their promises that got them elected than be preoccupied with Donald Trump.  They've gotten absolutely nothing done.
Click to expand...


JohnnyU said:
Look what polls got you in 2016.
Click to expand...


sho nuff said:
They were dead on accurate as to what the majority of Americans thought.
Click to expand...


JohnnyU said:
You conveniently leave out the polls predicting Hillary in a landslide for the WINNER/LOSER, not popular vote.
Click to expand...
It was in response to what the American people are in favor of.  Hillary winning in a landslide is not what national polling is about or what Americans are in favor of.  national polling is different...and my post about polls being dead on accurate as to what the majority thought is supported by the links I provided.

National polling was accurate as to the popular vote...as in...what the majority of Americans thought.  Do I need to link it again and say it again?

Polling saying "who might win" is not relevant to what I was discussing.

 
sho nuff said:
False...the national polling was extremely accurate as to the popular vote.

This has been shown many times on this board.

Its not difficult...but for the alias trolling me and you agreeing with him...the facts don't seem to matter.

Here are more facts yet again proving what Im saying.

https://news.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/198155/national-polling-accurately-nails-popular-vote.aspx

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/23/national-polling-in-2016-may-have-been-better-than-polling-in-2012/

https://www.aapor.org/Education-Resources/Reports/An-Evaluation-of-2016-Election-Polls-in-the-U-S.aspx
Click to expand...
From one of those links..

Pre-election polls fueled high-profile predictions that Hillary Clinton’s likelihood of winning the presidency was about 90 percent, with estimates ranging from 71 to over 99 percent. When Donald Trump was declared the winner of the presidency in the early hours of November 9th, it came as a shock even to his own pollsters (Jacobs and House 2016). There was (and continues to be) widespread consensus that the polls failed.  

 
toshiba said:
That is a good point.  Poll modeling methodology also took a hit in 2016.
Click to expand...
Yes...and adjustments to be made on that as well as viewing the state by state polling more closely than the national polling when it comes to "% of chance to win".  Which is typically the stuff cited by Trump supporters to complain about polling.  

 
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sho nuff said:
toshiba said:
That is a good point.  Poll modeling methodology also took a hit in 2016.
Click to expand...
Yes...and adjustments to be made on that as well as viewing the state by state polling more closely than the national polling when it comes to "% of chance to win".  Which is typically the stuff cited by Trump supporters to complain about polling.  
Click to expand...
Yeah, I do think there is a lot of  misunderstanding on how to read polls.  We need to do a much better job of explaining what the predictions mean and don't mean.

 
JohnnyU said:
Polls are a lot more complex than what you're making them out to be.
Click to expand...
I agree...but when you are talking about what you think the majority of americans think...the national polling was quite accurate as to that and the popular vote.  They got it nearly exactly correct of what the majority would do.

To claim you know what the majority thinks...and then dismiss polling because you claim it was so inaccurate in 2016 (which it wasnt overall) is not the best logic.

 
toshiba said:
Yeah, I do think there is a lot of  misunderstanding on how to read polls.  We need to do a much better job of explaining what the predictions mean and don't mean.
Click to expand...
Doesn't seem to matter how many times it gets explained.  A month from now or so another argument about how bad the polls were will come up and it will repeat itself.  As it has often on here.

 
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