What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Issues thread- Results (what are the most pressing issues) in thread. (1 Viewer)

timschochet

timschochet

Footballguy
OK I’ve discussed doing this and a lot of people thought this was a good idea. This is a thread devoted to political issues. All are welcome. 

We will not be discussing personalities here. No talk of our current President, or his opponents, or  current political scandals if we can help it. I realize that it’s unrealistic to eliminate all of that but Id like to try in this thread. There are plenty of other threads to discuss that stuff. I’d also like to avoid talking about how Republicans are for this, Democrats are for that, etc. And let’s try to avoid acrimony: if you disagree with someone’s views, please explain why: don’t mock them and don’t insult them. I’d like to get into deep, detailed discussion here if possible. 

Lets start with a basic question which, hopefully will lead to several others: what political issues are a priority to you right now? And when you list them, what is your end goal? 

Again all are welcome. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Here is my own list of political priorities above all others: 

1. Climate change - I’d like to see us either solve or slow down this issue without seriously hurting our economy if possible. I always am afraid of quick fixes, but I know we need to do something. 

2. Economic growth- We need to try and increase this enough so that the debt becomes less significant, and so that our lower middle class has more spending power, especially the ability to buy homes again. 

3. Infrastructure Need large scale projects to rebuild the nation’s highways, bridges, water systems, communications, etc, 

4. Immigration reform We need to resolve the issue of undocumented (illegal) immigrants and immigration in general in a way that a plurality of Americans can accept. 

5. Gun control I would like to see universal background checks, gun registration, and a ban on AR-15s and similar weapons (NOT retroactive). 

6. Healthcare We need to decide, finally, what we’re going to do. 

These are the issues that interest me the most. 

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
My highest priority is reforming our government so that it works better for all the people not just the rich and powerful.  The last few years have exposed just how fragile our democracy is.  The most important thing is to strengthen it.
Click to expand...
I'd agree.

My #1 issue is removing barriers that allow politicians to work for folks OTHER than their constituents, and removing barriers that prevent people with differing views on how government works from working together and compromising on important solutions.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I would also put Climate Change as the top priority, but I agree with @fatguyinalittlecoat that reforming government needs to be tackled as well if we are to get anything done.  Part of that reformation is getting money out of campaigns.   

 
wikkidpissah said:
only one - money is not speech. caring about the others before addressing that is a waste of time
Click to expand...
Which means overturning Citizens United. 

Now in practical terms, I see only two ways to accomplish this: 

1. A new 5-4 majority in the Supreme Court in which liberals are the majority, followed by a new campaign finance law which that court would then uphold, reversing the earlier decision. 

2. A new constitutional amendment that would deal with this issue. 

Obviously these are difficult, though not impossible solutions. Is there another, easier way to bring what you desire about? 

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
My highest priority is reforming our government so that it works better for all the people not just the rich and powerful.  The last few years have exposed just how fragile our democracy is.  The most important thing is to strengthen it.
Click to expand...
How would you go about this? For the purposes of discussion, let’s say you were absolute dictator of the nation for as long as it takes to resolve this issue. 

 
timschochet said:
Which means overturning Citizens United. 

Now in practical terms, I see only two ways to accomplish this: 

1. A new 5-4 majority in the Supreme Court in which liberals are the majority, followed by a new campaign finance law which that court would then uphold, reversing the earlier decision. 

2. A new constitutional amendment that would deal with this issue. 

Obviously these are difficult, though not impossible solutions. Is there another, easier way to bring what you desire about? 
Click to expand...
It's a whole lot more than CU but, since you've always cared more about the deck furniture on this great ship than massive hole an iceberg has cut into its bow, we'll start there.

I have never been good at arguing this legally, but there was once a time (19th C) when it was settled law in this country that the profit motive needed more protection from than of and had no standing as speech nor the tiniest institutional power in the face of public interest. I only know this from research into a project about the early days of film, when i fell upon the statutes and test cases upon which the right to censorship are based. As is my MO, i did a couple days' furious study upon it and let it join the fumeous melange within my noggin, ever to cite but never to prove.

money is a powerful but toxic element and should be treated & handled as such, as apparently it once was. financial toxicity is why our democracy is failing. g'ahead, featherdust a chaise lounge. i'll be below decks with a bucket, a patch & a prayer.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
timschochet said:
So you want to raise taxes on the wealthy. What would be your method? And how would you spend the money? 
Click to expand...
Method?  Similar to what both Sanders and Warren have proposed.  Tax the wealthy on any income they make past a certain point.

The money would be spent on healthcare, education and infrastructure.  

And my #2 is overturning Citizens United and removing the corporate and special interest influences which have gotten us to this point of the middle class taking on more and more of the tax burden.  I know it's a pipe dream, but it's up there for me.  

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
OK I don’t think you realize what a democracy is.
Click to expand...
:lmao:  Ok, I assume Tim is using hyperbole there to get a specific response.

But I think you and I are dancing around agreement in one major issue and that's election reform. I sorta think that if we can replace our clunky old system with one that better represents the electorate, that we can start moving forward on other things like healthcare, where our performance on the world rankings is a disgrace, and taking on the particularly rapacious form of capitalism that has taken root in this country.

Oh, and we need to lock up all the NFL owners and confiscate their teams.

 
1.  Preserving our current economic platform/system (with minor adjustments to tax policy) 

2.  Immigration reform 

3.  Environment (very different from what Dems are pushing)

4.  Education 

5.  Healthcare 

6.  Gun Control

7.  Campaign Reform 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
wikkidpissah said:
It's a whole lot more than CU but, since you've always cared more about the deck furniture on this great ship than massive hole an iceberg has cut into its bow, we'll start there.

I have never been good at arguing this legally, but there was once a time (19th C) when it was settled law in this country that the profit motive needed more protection from than of and had no standing as speech nor the tiniest institutional power in the face of public interest. I only know this from research into a project about the early days of film, when i fell upon the statutes and test cases upon which the right to censorship are based. As is my MO, i did a couple days' furious study upon it and let it join the fumeous melange within my noggin, ever to cite but never to prove.

money is a powerful but toxic element and should be treated & handled as such, as apparently it once was. financial toxicity is why our democracy is failing. g'ahead, featherdust a chaise lounge. i'll be below decks with a bucket, a patch & a prayer.
Click to expand...
The reason I asked my question the way I did was because in your initial post you wrote “caring about the others before addressing this is a waste of time.” 

My assumption is that it’s going to take years, if not decades to overturn Citizens United. To approach the even larger goals you seek will probably take longer than that. Meanwhile we have several pressing issues that can’t wait, such as climate change, which means we’re going to have to use our current system, problematic as it is, flawed as it is, to solve them. Would you agree with this? 

 
TripItUp said:
1.  Preserving our current economic platform/system (with minor adjustments to tax policy) 

2.  Immigration reform 

3.  Environment (very different from what Dems are pushing)

4.  Education 

5.  Healthcare 

6.  Gun Control
Click to expand...
Can you briefly offer what you’d like to see happen on each of these? You don’t need to go into too much detail (unless you want to.) 

 
How about deficit spending?  We can achieve by cutting multiple government agencies and military budget for starters.  

 
stlrams said:
How about deficit spending?  We can achieve by cutting multiple government agencies and military budget for starters.  
Click to expand...
Which government agencies would you cut? What aspects  of the military would you cut? 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
wikkidpissah said:
only one - money is not speech. caring about the others before addressing that is a waste of time
Click to expand...
I've come to the conclusion that this is never going to happen. 

Politicians have moved the needle of greed incrementally over the course of time. There is no solution that will move that needle back to where we need it to be and there isn't enough politicians with a moral compass to move the needle incrementally away from greed.

 
TripItUp said:
1.  Preserving our current economic platform/system (with minor adjustments to tax policy) - preventing further wealth distribution (except for ultra wealthy) and opposing policy/programs that are likely to expand govt spending. (Free college for example)  preventing a euro style nanny state. 

2.  Immigration reform - stemming immigration rates until we can take care of the citizens we already have. 

3.  Environment (very different from what Dems are pushing) - emphasis on preventing/improving pollution from countries that are the biggest violators (China, India, third world countries) 

4.  Education - I would double spending on k-12 to improve public education...anti-charter schools or any other systems that pose challenges to public education. 

5.  Healthcare - reduce costs, vastly improve mental health facilities 

6.  Gun Control - assault rifles, handguns with extreme luxury taxes...hunting rifles not impacted. 

7.  Campaign Reform - remove pacs, corporate money 
Click to expand...
Updates above 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Taxes/taxation...all other aspects of government originate here.  Until the country really knows what’s coming in, where it’s coming from, and finally where it’s going, nothing changes IMO.  I currently support the FairTax as a way to achieve those goals

 
KCitons said:
I've come to the conclusion that this is never going to happen. 

Politicians have moved the needle of greed incrementally over the course of time. There is no solution that will move that needle back to where we need it to be and there isn't enough politicians with a moral compass to move the needle incrementally away from greed.
Click to expand...
As a broad statement I would agree with you. 

But in terms of specifics I’m not sure. Prior to The CU decision we had McCain-Feingold and other laws that reigned some of these things in. If there was a way to overturn CU we could go back to some of that. 

 
timschochet said:
Which government agencies would you cut? What secrets of the military would you cut? 
Click to expand...
There are 430 federal agencies and many are duplicative in nature as the states have their own agencies.  Too many to list but how about  Dept of education, agriculture, commerce, etc.  let’s cut military budget by 25% to start.  

 
TripItUp said:
Updates above 
Click to expand...
Thanks. I note a few contradictions though: 

You want to: 

1. Oppose programs that expand government spending. 

2. Take care of our own (part of your immigration desire) 

3. Double spending on education

Not quite sure what “take care of our own” entails but I assume some kind of large welfare state? That and doubling education would certainly expand government spending. 

 
stlrams said:
There are 430 federal agencies and many are duplicative in nature as the states have their own agencies.  Too many to list but how about  Dept of education, agriculture, commerce, etc.  let’s cut military budget by 25% to start.  
Click to expand...
Would you wean these out over time or just get rid of them? What about all the employees? 

 
timschochet said:
The reason I asked my question the way I did was because in your initial post you wrote “caring about the others before addressing this is a waste of time.” 

My assumption is that it’s going to take years, if not decades to overturn Citizens United. To approach the even larger goals you seek will probably take longer than that. Meanwhile we have several pressing issues that can’t wait, such as climate change, which means we’re going to have to use our current system, problematic as it is, flawed as it is, to solve them. Would you agree with this? 
Click to expand...
No. Climate change was the same issue, 40 yrs ago, under another name. Terrorism was the same issue, 40 yrs ago, under another aegis. etc etc etc. Oil is why they're still issues. Carter protected the guy who'd protected our oil a generation before, Reagan ripped Carter's solar cells off the White House roof. When we argued under Reagan what was the tipping point where taxation disincentivized investment, effort, growth & innovation, I actually thought economists would come up with an answer and we'd actually agree to tax wealth accordingly, but economics is a whore science so they didnt. Wealth is taxed at a fifth of what it was then and, as a result, our education, infrastructure, health & well-being have all deteriorated, but it's the only couch we have so let's dye it, put a doily on it and sit back down, taking the same rusty springs up our asses.

No. You throw out the couch. I've seen America agree to throw out couches before (civil rights, river & urban air pollution, space race, Morning in America) & know we can do it again if we stop being customers and try being citizens once more. And it starts with democracy being people and not money. If ten people a day are being run over at the end of your street, you put up a stop sign. STOP!

 
Last edited by a moderator:
wikkidpissah said:
No. Climate change was the same issue, 40 yrs ago, under another name. Terrorism was the same issue, 40 yrs ago, under another aegis. etc etc etc. Oil is why they're still issues. Carter protected the guy who'd protected our oil a generation before, Reagan ripped Carter's solar cells off the White House roof. When we argued under Reagan what was the tipping point where taxation disincentivized investment, effort, growth & innovation. I actually thought economists would come up with an answer and we'd actually agree to tax wealth accordingly, but economics is a whore science so they didnt. Wealth is taxed at a fifth of what it was then and, as a result, our education, infrastructure, health & well-being have all deteriorated, but it's the only couch we have so let's dye it, put a doily on it and sit back down, taking the same rusty springs up our asses.

No. You throw out the couch. I've seen America agree to throw out couches before (civil rights, river & urban air pollution, space race, Morning in America) & know we can do it again if we stop being customers and start being citizens again. And it starts with democracy being people and not money. If ten people a day are being run over at the end of your street, you put up a stop sign. STOP!
Click to expand...
I don’t understand what this means. How, specifically, do we go about this? 

 
stlrams said:
I’m good with phasing out over time.  Just put hiring freeze in place then move employees to other departments as people retire or leave.  
Click to expand...
How will our lives be improved in a clear, tangible way if there is no annual deficit? 

 
1. End our regime change wars - I have nothing but the utmost respect for members of our military... they're infinitely braver than I am on my bravest day. That said, I believe the majority of our wars have been based on lies and the pursuit of profit. I also do not believe this is a D vs R issue, as both parties and a huge portion of the press own a huge stake in pushing them. We've been in Afghanistan and Iraq for close to 20 years now and I have an 8 year old son who I don't want to  be turned to hamburger in an attempt to raise an oil company's stock 1/10 of a cent.

2. Medicare for all - For the first 36 years of my life I had nearly no medical issues. I had some seasonal allergies and I was overweight... no biggie. Shortly before my 37th birthday my body went crazy with multiple autoimmune diseases, cancer and I developed a ton of food allergies. I had to go to dozens of doctors to get it all sorted out and even though I had "good" health insurance (my wife works for a company that owns the damn insurance company) we paid thousands of dollars in medical bills to cover all of it. Now, for me it was fine... my income actually went WAY up during the recession and my wife has a great job so we were fine... it sucked paying it, but it was fine. I couldn't stop thinking about the people she worked with who made min wage or close to it... they had the same insurance, and if they went through what I went through they'd be broke and bankrupt. Nobody chooses to go through this stuff and it can severely ruin your life... these people don't need financial ruin on top of it for the sake of greed and profit.

3. The environment - I'm very much anti fracking, anti pipeline and pro green energy. I'm not a scientist and can't say whether or not the planet is doomed in the next 10 years, but it only makes sense to move to green energy if the technology is there.

4. Gun legislation - Both parties have been absolutely toothless on this or I would have it higher but we need to do something about our gun problem. If it's not taking away guns then they need to tell us what the answer IS. 

 --- For those of you with kids - if you want to feel sick to your stomach and helpless ask your young kids what they do in an active shooter drill...

5. Money out of politics - Simply put, I dont trust candidates who take big money donations. Rich people aren't stupid, and they're not "inspired" by your candidate. They want something and it doesnt matter if you're a D or an R. I don't know if this will ever be legislated out of existence (I doubt it) but I'm hopeful the grassroots fundraising methods Bernie used this cycle and last will spur candidates to at least move in this direction. 

6. Living wage - I dont know what the exact number should be, but nobody should work 40 hours a week and live in poverty. If the job is important enough for the company to need then it's important enough to pay people enough to actually live on. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
timschochet said:
I don’t understand what this means. How, specifically, do we go about this? 
Click to expand...
Gimme one Gates, one Schultz. Hell, another Perot even. Anyone who's got a few B that can go towards saving her own damn country. I can start a reform party, from the grass roots up, that asks people to do stuff to change the world, that asks people where we can agree. Here, me & another FFApper suggested this'n a decade ago on these boards - put a booth in every Starbucks: Got an hour? a day? a dollar? a hundred? a care of any kind? Talk to the bodyart bozo at this counter about what you can with it right now. Today. Stuff envelopes, fill this out, write this email, clean this up, build this, fix that. Bulletin boards, analog & digital. Ask America for 5 hours a week apiece. 5% will respond and, suddenly 75million person hours per week are commited to improving the lives of others. Whatever. What i do know is that doing no more than harumphing at Mitch McConnell (who's got more stop signs than Dade County, btw) or wondering whether Biden or Warren will better restore us to the do-nothing days of Obama aint cutting it. Crrrrrash! I'll be dead, have fun.

 
Maybe we need a Model Driven Party, where our positions are based on economic models, where we're continually attempting to revise them and base all our policies on what the data shows.

 
My personal list, though I've likely forgotten something important.

1. Environmental Policy - This is the number one issue facing humanity right now.  Not just coastal communities, but everyone. It includes investing in making the U.S. one of the forefronts for development of cleaner energy tech, which would ensure American leadership into the next century, and cleaning up pollution in the air, soil, and water.   And refusing to do business with countries that don't work to clean up their messes in international spaces.

2. Healthcare - not health insurance, healthcare.  We need, as a society, to decide that everyone gets access to healthcare.  Including and especially mental healthcare. This is not just a moral issue, it's a crime reduction issue and an economic growth issue.

3. Social Safety Net In General - goes with healthcare, and is the backbone of lowering crime rates - especially crimes of desperation - in this country, and is also an economic growth issue.

4. Infrastructure - self explanatory.

5. Money In Politics - we have to do something about this.  The country spent $2.4 billion on the 2016 presidential race.  That's ridiculous.  That much money means big donors, pacs, and multinational corporations have insane amounts of influence on policy.  That has to change.

 
Henry Ford said:
5. Money In Politics - we have to do something about this.  The country spent $2.4 billion on the 2016 presidential race.  That's ridiculous.  That much money means big donors, pacs, and multinational corporations have insane amounts of influence on policy.  That has to change.
Click to expand...
Seems to be a pretty popular issue. But- is there any practical way to address this other than the very difficult solutions I presented earlier? Because either of those would take a real long time, if possible at all. 

 
timschochet said:
Seems to be a pretty popular issue. But- is there any practical way to address this other than the very difficult solutions I presented earlier? Because either of those would take a real long time, if possible at all. 
Click to expand...
How many years will it take to address the environment?

The fact that it will take a long time does not mean it isn't something we need to get started on right away.  Quite the opposite.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

GordonGekko
The Official "Political Tweets That REALLY Didn't Age Well" Thread (10/15/22 1:23 PST)
Replies
22
Views
827
GordonGekko
GordonGekko
glvsav37
Hulu and the Political Ads Issue
2
Replies
67
Views
2K
Desert_Power
Desert_Power
timschochet
The Joe Biden Thread- things are looking up
16 17 18
Replies
880
Views
16K
DocHolliday
DocHolliday

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Top