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TheIronSheik

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7 hours ago, matuski said:

@TheIronSheik

I pretty much agree with your position and sentiment.  I just think this milk was spilled long ago and now is a weird time to cry over it.

And of course I find it more suspect still when you see politicians jumping on the bandwagon.

 

I'm surprised you're surprised about the timing. 

I mean that is what politics is and most politicians do. Use current events to grandstand their way into and out of what they want. Its basically a keeping up with the jones and staying relevant thing.

It's been awhile since a mass shooting or brown person terrorism. This story is fresh meat and new people to appeal to, so you gotta be picking a side to care about so you can appeal to the masses...til the next story.

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8 hours ago, Bull Dozier said:

By not condemning something, when you historically do not show hesitation to show condemnation for ideas you disagree with, shows your tacit consent to their ideas.

Tacit consent? They are profiting from it.

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2 hours ago, comfortably numb said:

I'm surprised you're surprised about the timing. 

I mean that is what politics is and most politicians do. Use current events to grandstand their way into and out of what they want. Its basically a keeping up with the jones and staying relevant thing.

It's been awhile since a mass shooting or brown person terrorism. This story is fresh meat and new people to appeal to, so you gotta be picking a side to care about so you can appeal to the masses...til the next story.

I am not surprised for a second about the politicians.

I somehow remain surprised each and every time at the masses for being surprised and managing to summon up outrage at any random weird and truly small thing... because they were told to.

Edited by matuski

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The problem with blackmail is they can always come back for more later. What happens when China asks for 5% of the profits, or else they will ban it? If you give them 5%, what will prevent them from asking for 10% later, or 50% for that matter. China always has the power to ban the NBA (or anything), you might as well have it happen now rather than later. 

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14 minutes ago, huthut said:

The problem with blackmail is they can always come back for more later. What happens when China asks for 5% of the profits, or else they will ban it? If you give them 5%, what will prevent them from asking for 10% later, or 50% for that matter. China always has the power to ban the NBA (or anything), you might as well have it happen now rather than later. 

Or not do anything and this will blow over in 2 weeks. By then NBA season starts up, we're less than 12 months away from our polarizing presidential election. Something will blow up somewhere, some actor will wear some stupid Halloween costume that will get twitter all up in arms and the NBA can keep a billion dollars.

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On 10/8/2019 at 7:11 PM, Ranethe said:

I read that a gamer made a live statement in support of protesters in Hong Kong and got banned for a year by Blizzard and stripped of money he won in a gaming tournament. I guess he was from Hong Kong, had just won a “Hearthstone” tournament and 10000 in winnings. Got banned and won’t receive the money he won. 

Hopefully he sues. Unless he signed some sort of competition contract where it states he can't make political comments they have no right to do what they did. Blizzard already has a mess from awhile back and this doesn't help anymore

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On 10/8/2019 at 8:49 PM, jvdesigns2002 said:

I don't want to be "hot take Jones" here--but I feel like Morey and the NBA are to blame here.    While I agree with Morey's original statement about Hong Kong--I just don't understand how a guy that has made a living touting himself as an analytics guru could not foresee that putting that tweet out there could possibly have some negative ramifications and ruffle some feathers.  I firmly believe that actions speak louder than words and his tweet was nothing more than empty symbolism.  The fact that he basically retracted it so quickly kind of exposed him as being a faux activist---the minute it could have effected his employment or wallet--he backed down super quick.  

The NBA's original reaction to the tweet was just as reprehensible.  It just goes to show how quick people are willing to abandon their morals and moral standing when it could possibly effect their economics.  It's not a good look for China, Morey, the Rockets, and the NBA.  

Wouldn't you depending on the job? I don't think its fake as much as I think it's bull####. It's like that time I yelled at a customer. Yeah the person talking crap shouldn't have about said person and I didn't like it and the customers who saw it defended me but my Boss still made me apologize to the customer despite he knew I was right for standing up for my co worker to not cause a bigger scene. He then told the customer to leave. was my outrage fake? no because my Manager and most customers who saw it knew my apology was BS. Morey's looks the same. Yeah he's right in his tweet however the apology is nothing more yeah I'm right but my boss is making me apologize to prevent further issues type thing. 

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On 10/9/2019 at 3:02 PM, Da Guru said:

This proves the NBA is not the "socially aware", not the "woke, league they proclaim to be.   NBA coaches and players who tweet about Russia, Trump, Global warming, social injustice are silent right now.    LeBron, Pops, Kerr,  China is in effect trying to do the same thing with the NBA as they are trying to do with the USA in general. Philly owner sends a chopper for Meek Mill to cater to his fans yet won`t even make one comment on China.   

Philly player were not allowed to comment on China last night, 2 Philly fans were thrown out of the arena for having "Free Hong Kong" signs.  Where is the support from the player and coaches?  China is one of the worst human rights violators on the planet, they silence dissidents, we complain about CNN and FOX, China has state run TV. They get one view..the governments view.  The only way you do business with Beijing is on their terms..not yours.

The NBA has the product not China..take a social stand and say screw China!

But but it's effects our bottom line. No different then the NFL taking the stance or the one they tried to on kneeling. Defense Department has paid the NFL Billions to have the players and coaches on the field for the anthem since 2010. NFL wasn't giving up that money. Same with the NBA on China. Unfortunately these leagues are too greedy to do the right thing. 

And too the bolded it really pissed me off the whole Meek Mill thing. Look was the cop corrupt? Probably but that doesn't excuse his otherbehavior while on probation. Violant conduct against a photograpgher, among other things he did. He also did have an unregistered gun which many of his fans were trying to say was planted by the cops but wasn't. They went to his house and found numerious illegal things. Some of it was someone in his posy the rests his. Some of these guys with what they do just look like complete hypocrites on what they support and don't. Goes on both sides of the isle too

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17 hours ago, TheIronSheik said:

The problem isn't the NBA working with China.  That's fine.  Lots of companies do it.  The problem starts when Americans lose their rights because China tells companies to do things.  When Americans are no longer allowed the freedom of free speech because China doesn't want us to speak, the NBA needs to tell China to go pound sand.  That's the issue.  

China also steals American jobs not immigrants 

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14 hours ago, [scooter] said:

What does Silver's timing have to do with it? You said the NBA shut down freedom of speech without question. I'm pointing out that the NBA did, in fact, question China (by supporting Morey's free speech rights, by refusing to apologize, and by refusing to punish Morey).

Also, the NBA didn't technically shut down Morey's freedom of speech. He voluntarily deleted the tweet after he realized how much trouble it caused.

I heard the NBA told him to delete to not cause anymore issues. Its essentially the NBA caving into China because they'll get mad. Silver and the league said one thing but did the complete opposite in it's actions 

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13 hours ago, Bull Dozier said:

Here's where I think the NBA is hypocritical, and I will acknowledge I am lumping the comish, coaches, and players all together when I say "the NBA" (disagree with that lumping together if you like, but that's the way I look at it).

Steph Curry and Steve Kerr do not hesitate to speak out about social issues any other time.  They have spoken about race, crime, and police brutality.  Yet Kerr won't comment on China because it is complicated, and Curry said he doesn't fully understand the history of China that lead to their current social structure and thus can't comment.  As if there is some excuse for China to now be a brutal totalitarian government?  That's hypocritical.  Knowing American history is not a requisite to be able to acknowledge what is wrong is society today.  Also, while knowing our history, or China's history may help one understand why their respective societies are where they are, there is nothing in either that excuses their respective ills.

I honestly think this is completely reasonable. I wouldn't want someone giving an opinion on something they don't fully understand or don't know much about to begin with. I can't really speak on police abuse or racial discrimination for the acceptation of incidents I was involved in when I was with Minority friends and how those different with police interaction to a few I had as a white person by myself. 

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I think it's hysterical that people are going through Kerr's old tweets now and finding a bunch of retweets where he's supporting the HK protesters.  :lol:

Glad he was able to take another swipe at America again though.  Gun control debate not too tough to talk about.  Genocide and organ harvesting?  I'm going to have to dig a little deeper on that before I can respond.  Very complex.

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17 hours ago, comfortably numb said:

His father being assassinated by Islamic jihadists (who took credit) in the 80s may also lend some apathy into hearing his political views a bit more than others, perhaps?

I know almost nothing about Steve Kerr, but this type of argument comes up on a somewhat regular basis and is nearly always exactly wrong.  When somebody has a personal, visceral connection to a particular topic, that's the opposite of a good reason to take their opinion more seriously.  It's actually a good reason to take their opinion with a giant grain of salt.  My parents are thankfully both alive and well, but I'll freely say that if they were killed by Islamic terrorists, my views on Islamic terrorism might become less rational and more emotionally-driven than they are today, and I think people would be well advised to discount my thoughts -- at least a little -- in that hypothetical.

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Seriously though, the sum total of my knowledge of Steve Kerr is that he once played for the Bulls, he's apparently now a HC, and he said something incredibly dumb just now that showed up on my Twitter feed.  For all I know he's a self-educated rationalist.  If that's the case, then his self-educated rationalism would be a good reason to take him seriously.  Not his family background.

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16 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I know almost nothing about Steve Kerr, but this type of argument comes up on a somewhat regular basis and is nearly always exactly wrong.  When somebody has a personal, visceral connection to a particular topic, that's the opposite of a good reason to take their opinion more seriously.  It's actually a good reason to take their opinion with a giant grain of salt.  My parents are thankfully both alive and well, but I'll freely say that if they were killed by Islamic terrorists, my views on Islamic terrorism might become less rational and more emotionally-driven than they are today, and I think people would be well advised to discount my thoughts -- at least a little -- in that hypothetical.

That's fair  and yes he may be biased in his feelings and I'm not saying he is more/less qualified to speak just that people may be more apathetic to someone like him speaking out because of his history and he does come off sounding somewhat intellectual in his responses.

 

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LeBron is pretty much showing the world he's a moron.  I love how he's trying to convince everyone they are wrong.  :lmao:

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Just now, TheIronSheik said:

LeBron is pretty much showing the world he's a moron.  I love how he's trying to convince everyone they are wrong.  :lmao:

Yeah - this is a weird hill for him to die on - on so many different levels.

I can only assume he has some financial incentive to back China here.  But, this has a chance of really killing his legacy.

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Lebron needs to backtrack ASAP or he’s going to lose his legacy. The current generation doesn’t forget and forgive stuff like this. 

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14 minutes ago, bigmarc27 said:

Lebron needs to backtrack ASAP or he’s going to lose his legacy. The current generation doesn’t forget and forgive stuff like this. 

But you don't understand how the impact of that tweet, that week, hurt people spiritually.  I mean, of course there's free speech.  But that doesn't mean you can say things like that.

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If Morey tweeted support to citizens of a communist government in a country that made up 0.05% of league revenues instead of whatever enormous percentage China actually is, where would this story be right now?

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6 minutes ago, RUSF18 said:

If Morey tweeted support to citizens of a communist government in a country that made up 0.05% of league revenues instead of whatever enormous percentage China actually is, where would this story be right now?

Depends.  If the NBA acted like they did, the story would still be huge.  Saying that it's only a story because the NBA is greedy is a weird defense.

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By the way, ESPN doesn't get off light here, either.  They ran story after story praising the NBA for not playing the All Star game in North Carolina because of the bathroom bill.  They talked about how the NBA was so noble for standing up for human rights.  Yet, when it comes to actual human rights, ESPN is literally broadcasting from China and pretending nothing happened.  Even sent an internal memo telling workers not to talk about it.  

The NBA, ESPN and all of these social justice activists have essentially lost all credibility.  Just when they could have used their platform to actually make change, they chose to take the money instead of stick up for the oppressed.

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1 hour ago, TheIronSheik said:

Depends.  If the NBA acted like they did, the story would still be huge.  Saying that it's only a story because the NBA is greedy is a weird defense.

Right. The question is would the NBA have acted like they did if it didn't involve such a prominent business partner. The answer is obviously no and that doesn't make them greedy, it makes them ####ty.

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2 hours ago, TheIronSheik said:

LeBron is pretty much showing the world he's a moron.  I love how he's trying to convince everyone they are wrong.  :lmao:

I tell my daughter this story all the time:  There are people in this world who are so dumb, but think they are so smart.  Almost like they are too dumb to recognize just how dumb they are.  These are the people that come over to you when you're talking to a group of people and they'll tell you a story that they think makes them seem smart.  And as they walk away, they are thinking, "God, I'm so smart.  I just totally fooled all of them."  And everyone in the group is thinking, "God, that guy is an idiot.  He's so dumb he actually thinks he fooled us."

 

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LeBron is getting governed by the media.  Well, any media that isn't ESPN, really.

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I’m no Lebron fan but I think his main point has been misinterpreted a bit. Think the timing of the tweet pissed him off with NBA players on Chinese soil when it was made. 

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Just now, fruity pebbles said:

I’m no Lebron fan but I think his main point has been misinterpreted a bit. Think the timing of the tweet pissed him off with NBA players on Chinese soil when it was made. 

Yeah, but spiritually?

Dude things more highly of himself than he ought, but that will happen with the world has been hanging off of your nuts since you were 15.

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19 minutes ago, fruity pebbles said:

I’m no Lebron fan but I think his main point has been misinterpreted a bit. Think the timing of the tweet pissed him off with NBA players on Chinese soil when it was made. 

Or at least, that’s the spin he developed when he immediately started getting killed for his statement. 

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Just now, thecatch said:

Or at least, that’s the spin he developed when he immediately started getting killed for his statement. 

Certainly could be. But I’d be pissed too if some dude sent out a tweet from his couch that could have caused me harm at the time. Brings up whether they should be over there at all but they were and it’s not beyond the realm of possibility for China to keep them for a bit.

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18 minutes ago, fruity pebbles said:

I’m no Lebron fan but I think his main point has been misinterpreted a bit. Think the timing of the tweet pissed him off with NBA players on Chinese soil when it was made. 

No.  He's clearly trying to walk the line.  But just imagine if someone was trying to walk the line on whether slavery was good or bad.  I mean, some things you just have to bite the bullet and acknowledge that there is no line.  It's just bad.

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1 minute ago, fruity pebbles said:

Certainly could be. But I’d be pissed too if some dude sent out a tweet from his couch that could have caused me harm at the time. Brings up whether they should be over there at all but they were and it’s not beyond the realm of possibility for China to keep them for a bit.

Wait.  You think LeBron could have been harmed?

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3 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

Wait.  You think LeBron could have been harmed?

Probably not but who knows. I think making that tweet while there were NBA players over there at the time was putting them in harms way. 

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1 minute ago, fruity pebbles said:

Probably not but who knows. I think making that tweet while there were NBA players over there at the time was putting them in harms way. 

Actually, if anything, it was noble of him to take a stand.  To use his platform to try to make change.  

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Just now, TheIronSheik said:

Actually, if anything, it was noble of him to take a stand.  To use his platform to try to make change.  

I’d agree if either he was there at the time or the NBA players weren’t. Like I said, I generally think Lebron is a tool but I agree with him that the tweet could have waited a week.

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19 minutes ago, fruity pebbles said:

Certainly could be. But I’d be pissed too if some dude sent out a tweet from his couch that could have caused me harm at the time. Brings up whether they should be over there at all but they were and it’s not beyond the realm of possibility for China to keep them for a bit.

This is far less plausible than him wanting to make sure Space Jam 2 is well received in that market. 

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Nike sells Lebrons in China too. Don’t have to look into it much more than that. 

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Will be interested if Daryl Morey responds or not. I’m guessing no but he’s gotta be a little pissed about a Mensa member like Lebron calling the MIT educated Morey uninformed and uneducated. 

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5 minutes ago, fruity pebbles said:

Will be interested if Daryl Morey responds or not. I’m guessing no but he’s gotta be a little pissed about a Mensa member like Lebron calling the MIT educated Morey uninformed and uneducated. 

I’m going to guess there is a 99.95% chance he doesn’t 

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42 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

Wait.  You think LeBron could have been harmed?

I only caught a bit of the show, but I remember Golic and Wingo on Friday talking about how only so much could be said at that moment because there were people over there right then and there might be real ramifications for those people.  I might have misunderstood, but I inferred from the tone that they were talking about player safety and not just PR stuff.

44 minutes ago, fruity pebbles said:

Certainly could be. But I’d be pissed too if some dude sent out a tweet from his couch that could have caused me harm at the time. Brings up whether they should be over there at all but they were and it’s not beyond the realm of possibility for China to keep them for a bit.

And that's exactly where my mind went when hearing those comments on G&W.  If all it takes is a simple tweet like that to put the players in jeopardy, then we probably shouldn't be sending them there in the first place.

 

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Lebron retweeting MLK in 2018:

 

Injustice Anywhere Is A Threat To Justice Everywhere- Our Lives Begin To End The Day We Become Silent About Things That Matter- #ThankYouMLK50

LeBron James, Jan. 2018

Lebron now: “It’s ignorant to make statements supporting people peacefully protesting for their freedom because it could cost me money.”


 

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OFFICIAL APOLOGY TO CHINA FROM TREY PARKER AND MATT STONE.

"Like the NBA, we welcome the Chinese censors into our homes and into our hearts. We too love money more than freedom and democracy. Xi doesn't look just like Winnie the Pooh at all. Tune into our 300th episode this Wednesday at 10! Long live the Great Communist Party of China! May this autumn's sorghum harvest be bountiful! We good now China?"

 

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1 hour ago, jhib said:

I only caught a bit of the show, but I remember Golic and Wingo on Friday talking about how only so much could be said at that moment because there were people over there right then and there might be real ramifications for those people.  I might have misunderstood, but I inferred from the tone that they were talking about player safety and not just PR stuff.

And that's exactly where my mind went when hearing those comments on G&W.  If all it takes is a simple tweet like that to put the players in jeopardy, then we probably shouldn't be sending them there in the first place.

 

There is zero chance that China would have done something to an American NBA player or employee of the NBA for speaking out.  They might have kicked them out of the country, but I can't imagine that China would want to start WWIII over an NBA player.

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4 hours ago, fruity pebbles said:

I’m no Lebron fan but I think his main point has been misinterpreted a bit. Think the timing of the tweet pissed him off with NBA players on Chinese soil when it was made. 

Whatever lol

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1 hour ago, TheIronSheik said:

There is zero chance that China would have done something to an American NBA player or employee of the NBA for speaking out.  They might have kicked them out of the country, but I can't imagine that China would want to start WWIII over an NBA player.

And they both know that. Lying cowards. Totally disingenuous. No one is falling for that crap

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4 hours ago, TheIronSheik said:

I tell my daughter this story all the time:  There are people in this world who are so dumb, but think they are so smart.  Almost like they are too dumb to recognize just how dumb they are.  These are the people that come over to you when you're talking to a group of people and they'll tell you a story that they think makes them seem smart.  And as they walk away, they are thinking, "God, I'm so smart.  I just totally fooled all of them."  And everyone in the group is thinking, "God, that guy is an idiot.  He's so dumb he actually thinks he fooled us."

 

The Dunning-Kruger Effect

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5 minutes ago, Christo said:

Wow.  I had no idea there was a name for it.  I thought I came up with that all by myself.  Wait... Does that make me the stupid person who thinks they're smart? :kicksrock:

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Now they're burning Lebron jerseys in Hong Kong.  As a Rockets fan,  Darryl Morey is one of the last people I would have thought to be a central figure in these protests.  I just have to sit back and laugh at the ensuing s### show a single tweet has caused.    

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27852132/protesters-trample-burn-lebron-james-jerseys-hong-kong

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