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Turkey invades Syria: Update- ISIS rebuilds (2 Viewers)

timschochet said:
If this were a movie or novel maybe. 

But there are innocent people in Syria being mowed down right now and our President is responsible. I just can’t feel that entertained. 
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Always surprised at this line of reasoning as a criticism of Trump.  Many Presidents of the USA (including Obama) have  been responsible for innocent people being "mowed down".  It's usually justified by there being a bigger plan, or it being the unfortunate result of an action that many people agreed upon.

What seems different about this one is not that people are dying right now, because that's nothing new for the USA, but that he unilaterally made the decision and there doesn't appear to be any real coherent plan behind it.

For the record, as you know, I am disgusted by war and disgusted by the reports of what is happening in Syria right now.

 
Today is one of those days where you just can't believe how much oddness and screw ups happen in such a short period of time. Out of ways to say how crazy this is.

 
The General said:
Did donald claim that Turkey was going to do this with our troops in there?
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Going from memory here:

it started with the White House saying they (Turkey) were already planning to do it, so that’s why we got out of the way.  Then a DoD guy said Turkey’s actions were wrong and impulsive.  Now this morning I read an article (will try to find) indicating that Turkey has been threatening this for quite some time, admin members didn’t believe them, and by leaving we were calling their bluff, yet totally stunned and flabbergasted that it actually happened so quickly and only after we proclaimed we wouldn’t be stopping them.  

ETA the article I referenced:

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-syria-mistake-thought-turkey-bluffed-invasion-axios-2019-10

 
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That one guy said:
Going from memory here:

it started with the White House saying they (Turkey) were already planning to do it, so that’s why we got out of the way.  Then a DoD guy said Turkey’s actions were wrong and impulsive.  Now this morning I read an article (will try to find) indicating that Turkey has been threatening this for quite some time, admin members didn’t believe them, and by leaving we were calling their bluff, yet totally stunned and flabbergasted that it actually happened so quickly and only after we proclaimed we wouldn’t be stopping them.  

ETA the article I referenced:

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-syria-mistake-thought-turkey-bluffed-invasion-axios-2019-10
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Madness. 

He looks so weak here by any measure.

 
The General said:
Today is one of those days where you just can't believe how much oddness and screw ups happen in such a short period of time. Out of ways to say how crazy this is.
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There is so much madness from this presidency that has long since been forgotten, simply replaced by the latest "unbelievable" incident.

 
shader said:
Always surprised at this line of reasoning as a criticism of Trump.  Many Presidents of the USA (including Obama) have  been responsible for innocent people being "mowed down".  It's usually justified by there being a bigger plan, or it being the unfortunate result of an action that many people agreed upon.

What seems different about this one is not that people are dying right now, because that's nothing new for the USA, but that he unilaterally made the decision and there doesn't appear to be any real coherent plan behind it.

For the record, as you know, I am disgusted by war and disgusted by the reports of what is happening in Syria right now.
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There are many decisions by Presidents which cause people to die, but it’s rarely this direct. 

 
Sinn Fein said:
There is so much madness from this presidency that has long since been forgotten, simply replaced by the latest "unbelievable" incident.
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Yup. Some days though they just get fired out in such a fast succession. This letter, him tweeting about this meeting were he has a fit, him telling us this "plan" for troops withdraw.

Even has one of his signature weird phrases when he described his trainwreck as "strategically brilliant".

 
When the Joint Chiefs, Generals and Admirals all agree with a President's decision or recommended it, I don't question the President for making that decision.  That doesn't appear to be the case with trump.  

 
beef said:
:jawdrop:    If this is true , HOLY #'# ####!
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I think its more potential for disaster, than actual disaster at this stage.

The good news, is we have the worlds best negotiator on this.  I suspect we will get off cheaply, maybe tossing in a few ICBMs to pay Turkey to hold our Nukes for a while.

 
Sinn Fein said:
I think its more potential for disaster, than actual disaster at this stage.

The good news, is we have the worlds best negotiator on this.  I suspect we will get off cheaply, maybe tossing in a few ICBMs to pay Turkey to hold our Nukes for a while.
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Yeah, we’re not on the brink of nuking each other or anything.  It’s just very bad, not catastrophic. 

 
shader said:
Well I mean Obama literally droned citizens.....
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But it's really hard to say whether that saved lives or cost lives on net. Probably impossible for us lay people to say.

Pulling out of Syria in the manner we did doesn't seem like such a close call.

 
We either leave them there and sit on the edge of our seats or we remove them. 
 

That would effectively be a declaration of the end of NATO as we know it.

 
Henry Ford said:
We either leave them there and sit on the edge of our seats or we remove them. 
 

That would effectively be a declaration of the end of NATO as we know it.
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A little premature on the NATO thing.  Even if we kick out Turkey (which I doubt we do) it is not the end of NATO.   

 
One question the candidates last night had trouble answering: what the heck do we do now? 

Its a good question. The damage is pretty much done. It’s severe. We really can’t stop what’s happening. What should our next step be? 

 
timschochet said:
Quite a few. From what I know of those strikes, they seemed like good decisions. This one seems like an idiotic decision. What’s your point? 
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You have got to be kidding me Tim....Drone strikes against KNOWN American Citizens is NEVER a good decision...WTF dude....

 
The Commish said:
I don't think we have....no one wanted to talk about it when it was happening.  NCC nor myself ever got responses when we brought it up/
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It might not have been with you but I certainly discussed it at the time. In any case it’s not really relevant to this topic; it was only brought up as a “whataboutism” to my accusation of Trump being responsible for the ethnic cleansing that is currently occurring. 

 
TRUMP IGNORED SYRIA EXIT OPTIONS THAT COULD HAVE KEPT RUSSIA AT BAY, NSC OFFICIAL SAYS

In the weeks leading up to President Donald Trump's decision to exit Syria, his National Security Council staff had been preparing and presenting a variety of plans for an orderly withdrawal, a National Security Council official told Newsweek. The goal was to avoid a violent rush to fill a power vacuum opened by a sudden U.S. exit. These plans were abandoned completely by Trump in favor of an immediate retreat after a call with his Turkish counterpart. Within days of the decision, U.S. troops were handing over strategic positions to Russian forces.

 
If you listen closely - you can hear Putin cackling in the background:

“You don’t often encounter such language in correspondence between heads of state. It’s a highly unusual letter,” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters on a conference call.

 
Sinn Fein said:
emptywheel @emptywheel · 3m

First I didn't believe the letter was real. 

Then I struggled to understand why he released it willingly.

Then I puzzled that he doesn't realize that photo makes Pelosi look badass. 

Now I'm moving on to that he believes BOTH the letter & the Pelosi photo make him look strong.

Then Nate Silver chimes in with: He also thought the readout ("transcript") of his call with Zelensky was exculpatory.

I am starting to think Trump is not very good at this.
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If someone truly thought Trump was a Russian asset then a solid argument could be made he’s doing all this to rip the country apart.  I personally just think he’s a petty, narcissistic moron but would make for a great spy novel.

 
AAABatteries said:
If someone truly thought Trump was a Russian asset then a solid argument could be made he’s doing all this to rip the country apart.  I personally just think he’s a petty, narcissistic moron but would make for a great spy novel.
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Being a petty, natcissistic, moron does not prevent someone from being a useful idiot or protect from kompromat

 
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