WT actual F? With every move Trump makes, this nation sinks further. If this is making america great again, I'll gladly take the days when we weren't great.
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Turkey invades Syria: Update- ISIS rebuilds (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
apalmer
Footballguy
Norman Paperman
Footballguy
I think you are misinterpreting events - what you are seeing is just two kids playing in a sandbox. Nothing to see there.
Redwes25
Footballguy
Since Turkey said it was not a ceasefire not sure it can be over. Trump administration doing what it does best which is lying.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=adhkn9lt76c
yak651
Footballguy
Norman Paperman
Footballguy
I am worried for Dan Rather. He already can't remember last week . 
Dan Rather@DanRather
I cannot remember a time when the world saw the United States this unsteady, adrift, corrupt, or incompetent.
Dan Rather@DanRather
I cannot remember a time when the world saw the United States this unsteady, adrift, corrupt, or incompetent.
apalmer
Footballguy
The difference is that Mitch is intelligent enough to know that what he's enabling is wrong and evil. That's at least as bad as committing the wrong and evil acts because you're too dumb to know the difference.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
From the comments that I read on Breibart Mr. Trump hasn't lost one vote among his base. He is being touted as a hero with his masterful handling of the Turkey situation.
Insomniac
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
Problem is 99% of America has no idea what is going on there and think a Kurd has something to do with cheese.Jackstraw said:
apalmer
Footballguy
Godsbrother
Footballguy
top dog
Footballguy
My son is currently deployed to the middle east. My son in law served a tour in Afghanistan a few years ago when things were a bit more intense then they are right now. I haven't talked to my son regarding his feelings on the current events but my son in law told met that one of the most difficult aspects of his tour in Afghanistan was knowing who to trust and who not to. Afghan regulars served side by side with them and many of them were really not our friends. These current events did NOTHING to help the trust between our forces and our allies anywhere.Bucky86 said:
I am very proud of the sacrifice my son is doing right now. He has left a family behind to do what the rest of us can't or won't do. That being said, I am NOT proud of what our country has done. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty pissed off. NOTHING that has happened has made us or our troops safer. Just the exact opposite. And for what? To get out of never ending wars that we aren't really getting out of?
timschochet
Footballguy
1. The most infuriating aspect of the last 24 hours is that there are to be no sanctions whatsoever, and Congress is going along with it. The House cannot impose sanctions by themselves and the Senate, despite all of their “great concern”, wont lift a finger. Trump imposed partial, meaningless sanctions for all of 24 hours but immediately removed them after Turkey agreed to be given everything they demanded.
2. The most nauseating moment of the last 24 hours was not Trump congratulating himself, since thats an everyday occurrence, or Trump making tasteless idiotic comments disparaging our former allies, since that seems to be nearly an everyday occurrence. It was Mike Pence, in his sonorous, self-righteous, preacher voice, praising Donald Trump for the surrender. Pence is easily the fakest , most lickspittle Vice President in modern history. It is one of the great ironies that I and many others are currently trying to make this man our President.
2. The most nauseating moment of the last 24 hours was not Trump congratulating himself, since thats an everyday occurrence, or Trump making tasteless idiotic comments disparaging our former allies, since that seems to be nearly an everyday occurrence. It was Mike Pence, in his sonorous, self-righteous, preacher voice, praising Donald Trump for the surrender. Pence is easily the fakest , most lickspittle Vice President in modern history. It is one of the great ironies that I and many others are currently trying to make this man our President.
bigbottom
Footballguy
Godsbrother
Footballguy
We are too. It is a tremendous sacrifice and we appreciate it.My son is currently deployed to the middle east. My son in law served a tour in Afghanistan a few years ago when things were a bit more intense then they are right now. I haven't talked to my son regarding his feelings on the current events but my son in law told met that one of the most difficult aspects of his tour in Afghanistan was knowing who to trust and who not to. Afghan regulars served side by side with them and many of them were really not our friends. These current events did NOTHING to help the trust between our forces and our allies anywhere.
I am very proud of the sacrifice my son is doing right now. He has left a family behind to do what the rest of us can't or won't do. That being said, I am NOT proud of what our country has done. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty pissed off. NOTHING that has happened has made us or our troops safer. Just the exact opposite. And for what? To get out of never ending wars that we aren't really getting out of?
From Brent McGurk:
"Warning: Erdogan today says his "safe zone" as agreed with Trump stretches 450x32 kms, from the Euphrates to Iraq. This includes all majority Kurdish and Christian areas of Syria. Senior U.S. officials say it is far narrower. Listen to Erdogan, not Trump."
"Warning: Erdogan today says his "safe zone" as agreed with Trump stretches 450x32 kms, from the Euphrates to Iraq. This includes all majority Kurdish and Christian areas of Syria. Senior U.S. officials say it is far narrower. Listen to Erdogan, not Trump."
Norman Paperman
Footballguy
Jon Sopel@BBCJonSopel
Wow. #Erdogan tells news conference the letter sent by @realDonaldTrump telling him not to be a ‘tough guy’ wasn’t in line with diplomatic or political customs. He said they wouldn’t forget the lack of respect. “When the time comes necessary steps will be taken”
:smh:
Trump looking like the headliner at amateur hour.
Wow. #Erdogan tells news conference the letter sent by @realDonaldTrump telling him not to be a ‘tough guy’ wasn’t in line with diplomatic or political customs. He said they wouldn’t forget the lack of respect. “When the time comes necessary steps will be taken”
:smh:
Trump looking like the headliner at amateur hour.
timschochet
Footballguy
You know, as much as I blame Trump for what’s happened, this seems like a bit of a stretch to me. The USA has not committed crimes against humanity.
timschochet
Footballguy
Does seem like a stretch, at this time. And we negotiated an agreement with them for a cease fire. We would have more culpability in the Yemen crisis.
Trump's withdrawal may not be good for Israel, for one it could strengthen Iran.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I disagree. We convinced the Kurds to abandon their forward defenses and heavy guns and then immediately withdrew and gave Turkey the green light to begin ethnic cleansing.
The US is complicit in these crimes.
timschochet
Footballguy
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Henry Ford
Footballguy
Neville Chamberlain was absolutely complicit in the crimes committed in Czechoslovakia. And his name is reviled through history for it.
And what he did was not even the same thing that Trump just did.
badmojo1006
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
I've been saying this since Trump started taking asylum seekers children away from them. There are still thousands of children unaccounted for. Not to mention his original plan was to just shoot these people. Trump should be in the Hague.
timschochet
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
He is reviled for appeasement, not for war crimes.
If evidence comes out that Trump knew ethnic cleansing would occur and was ok with it, or if he benefited personally, that would change my opinion. But I don’t see that happening. That totally incompetent letter Trump wrote at least shows that he didn’t want Erdogan to invade.
Let's be honest, he is the president. I will respect the office, but I will not support Trump's actions. He's turning what used to be the most prestigious political office that could be earned by anyone into a tinpot dictator's dream.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
So what? If the zombie apocalypse is coming to your home and your buddy says “alright, I have a plan to stop them. Abandon the outer defenses and pull back” and while you’re abandoning them and pulling back and waiting for the plan he slips out the back door alone, what’s your view of that guy? Even if he’s shouting “don’t eat them, zombies!” while he runs?
timschochet
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Turkey are the zombies in this analogy.
And now I’m thinking about zombie turkeys. Great.
He’s responsible for what happens to the people in that house. He didn’t kill them, but he might as well have. He knew what would happen.
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timschochet
Footballguy
Why can’t we make moral distinctions here? They’re important.
Trump acted from laziness, incompetence, hubris, use whatever adjectives you need. But ethnic cleansing, which is a form of genocide, is an act of deliberate evil.
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
Again, he wanted to shoot asylum seekers. Knowing that, what makes you think he cares what happens to these people?
timschochet
Footballguy
Insomniac
Footballguy
The agreement with Turkey about the Kurds might be more comparable to the Molotov - Ribbentrop Pact than the Munich "Peace for our time" Agreement. Are there really people who don't think Erdogan is going to attack the Kurds and kill thousands, maybe tens of thousands of people? He's not going to care about how many of them are civilians and neither is Trump, or the GOP members of Congress, or any of Trump's base.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
You are giving Trump way too much credit. He was told exactly what would happen if we pulled out. At a minimum he didn't care and wanted to distract from impeachment hearings and say he was fulfilling a campaign promise.
From Richard Engel:
The top Kurdish commander in Syria, General Mazlum Kobane told @NBCNews he is trying to pull his forces back from Ras al-Ayn, but Turkey is not allowing it. He alleges Turkey does not want Kurdish fighters to withdraw - a condition of the ceasefire - but to kill them.
11:01 AM · Oct 19, 2019·Twitter Web
A senior US official and the top Kurdish commander both tell @NBCNews that the US-Turkish ceasefire is NOT holding. They say Turkey is using the ceasefire to continue to advance and take territory in and around the border city of Ras al-Ayn.
The top Kurdish commander in Syria, General Mazlum Kobane told @NBCNews he is trying to pull his forces back from Ras al-Ayn, but Turkey is not allowing it. He alleges Turkey does not want Kurdish fighters to withdraw - a condition of the ceasefire - but to kill them.
11:01 AM · Oct 19, 2019·Twitter Web
A senior US official and the top Kurdish commander both tell @NBCNews that the US-Turkish ceasefire is NOT holding. They say Turkey is using the ceasefire to continue to advance and take territory in and around the border city of Ras al-Ayn.
With Twitter, there's near live on the ground reporting.
David Eubank, former army ranger turned Christian missionary, now reports that the wounded were able to get out of one of the towns, Sari Kani, where they had been trapped.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DaveEubankFBR/status/1185571478948892677
David Eubank, former army ranger turned Christian missionary, now reports that the wounded were able to get out of one of the towns, Sari Kani, where they had been trapped.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DaveEubankFBR/status/1185571478948892677
That one guy
Footballguy
Has the issue of Trump passing along a letter from the Kurdish General Mazloum, one that apparently was sent to Trump indicating some desire of negotiations and massive concessions, along with his own letter to Erdogan been fleshed out yet? What came of that?
