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WR CeeDee Lamb, DAL (1 Viewer)

King of the Jungle said:
Agree, and I am not doubting Lamb is good. I think he looks amazing out there from what I have seen so far. Just curious on what the opinions were in regards to his production being slot related versus the talent he has shown on the field. Obviously off to an amazing start and I am excited to see him continue to grow.
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I've had this same thought.  He's DOMINATING but everything is slot snaps and he's getting most of his yards wide open over the middle and on underneath stuff.  I don't think that we should take away anything because of that, but I see people anointing him WR1 in dynasty and I'm not sure we should go that far. 

We have seen really young WRs looking amazing and rack up yards this way that didn't really turn into the WR1 like their stats/age made it look like they would. 

Waldman has some great points about how great he's been and gives lots of credit for finding the spots that beat the zone. 

I think he has done everything they have asked and more, but I would feel better about making him the top dynasty WR if he was on the outside going against the top corner every week like the rest of the players in that conversation.   For instance, what are the stat lines for last week's game if Cooper and Lamb switch roles and Lamb faces Bradberry? 

 
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King of the Jungle said:
I took him at 1.01 so I do think highly of him. I just have not been able to watch every play of his so I was just curious on some perspectives from those that did. A lot of his chunk plays seem to come from the slot against zone coverage based on highlights so I was curious what others saw. He looks better than I expected which is saying a lot and I am pumped I went against the grain and picked him over any of the RBs. He has made some extraordinary contested catches as well, kid appears to be a player.
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Not just contested - did you see the catch last week where Dalton badly threw it behind him when he was open, and HE STILL stopped on a dime, levitated horizontal backwards, and made a diving catch to keep the Cowboys drive alive?  Gotta say my jaw dropped.

 
kittenmittens said:
I've had this same thought.  He's DOMINATING but everything is slot snaps and he's getting most of his yards wide open over the middle and on underneath stuff.  I don't think that we should take away anything because of that, but I see people anointing him WR1 in dynasty and I'm not sure we should go that far. 

We have seen really young WRs looking amazing and rack up yards this way that didn't really turn into the WR1 like their stats/age made it look like they would. 

Waldman has some great points about how great he's been and gives lots of credit for finding the spots that beat the zone. 

I think he has done everything they have asked and more, but I would feel better about making him the top dynasty WR if he was on the outside going against the top corner every week like the rest of the players in that conversation.   For instance, what are the stat lines for last week's game if Cooper and Lamb switch roles and Lamb faces Bradberry? 
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I don't get the argument here.  Why do we need to see what Lamb would do outside?  If he succeeds somewhere why is there a rush to move him from that usage?   Why does it matter where his success comes from?  He is succeeding and has someone said earlier he is open every time....even when not thrown to.  

 
Gally said:
I don't get the argument here.  Why do we need to see what Lamb would do outside?  If he succeeds somewhere why is there a rush to move him from that usage?   Why does it matter where his success comes from?  He is succeeding and has someone said earlier he is open every time....even when not thrown to.  
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I think it depends if we are talking redraft or dynasty. Redraft, I don't care where a guy lines up or what coverage he faces. I just want to him scoring points. In dynasty, these kinds of things matter a lot as they can be indicators of future development.  Kelvin Benjamin might be a good example. Rookie year he was scoring garbage TDs left and right. Just garbage jump balls. I didn't care at all in redraft- feed me all the garbage time you got KB. However, for dynasty, it was a sure sign to sell KB. 

 
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kittenmittens said:
I've had this same thought.  He's DOMINATING but everything is slot snaps and he's getting most of his yards wide open over the middle and on underneath stuff.  I don't think that we should take away anything because of that, but I see people anointing him WR1 in dynasty and I'm not sure we should go that far. 

We have seen really young WRs looking amazing and rack up yards this way that didn't really turn into the WR1 like their stats/age made it look like they would. 

Waldman has some great points about how great he's been and gives lots of credit for finding the spots that beat the zone. 

I think he has done everything they have asked and more, but I would feel better about making him the top dynasty WR if he was on the outside going against the top corner every week like the rest of the players in that conversation.   For instance, what are the stat lines for last week's game if Cooper and Lamb switch roles and Lamb faces Bradberry? 
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I have heard this guy Bradberrys name thrown out there a lot recently on the board as a good corner. I am not even sure who he is. I guess he is good.

I tried to make this point in previous post, but I don't think I nailed it.

You have a lot of top WR who get most of their production running from the slot. For example Michael Thomas DeAndre Hopkins and Adam Thielen. That doesn't mean these guys can't line up outside, but honestly by moving the WR around and having them work from the slot gives the WR more options as far as how they can attack the defense compared to a WR who doesn't have that option.

This is different than the niche WR who only can play the slot position and only wins in certain ways.

Your point about wanting to ensure Lamb (or whoever) can beat the best defensive competition the NFL has to offer is hard to test, as even corners who shadow WR will not often follow them into the slot. That is part of why teams do these things, to pick their match ups and to get their best players away from the defenses better cover guys.

CeeDee Lamb is not a niche slot WR and I have confidence in him beating any cornerback in the NFL regardless of where he lines up.

 
Ilov80s said:
I think it depends if we are talking redraft or dynasty. Redraft, I don't care where a guy lines up or what coverage he faces. I just want to him scoring points. In dynasty, these kinds of things matter a lot as they can be indicators of future development.  Kelvin Benjamin might be a good example. Rookie year he was scoring garbage TDs left and right. Just garbage jump balls. I didn't care at all in redraft- feed me all the garbage time you got KB. However, for dynasty, it was a sure sign to sell KB. 
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I think that is a total different argument.  KB was a one trick pony.  Lamb can do it all.  Precision route runner with great body control and hands......complaining he is "only" in the slot as a detriment to his dynasty outlook seems miscast and not relevant to me.  Coaches putting him in places to succeed is only a good thing.  I just don't get the slot vs outside usage as an indicator of him not progressing seems silly.

 
Gally said:
I think that is a total different argument.  KB was a one trick pony.  Lamb can do it all.  Precision route runner with great body control and hands......complaining he is "only" in the slot as a detriment to his dynasty outlook seems miscast and not relevant to me.  Coaches putting him in places to succeed is only a good thing.  I just don't get the slot vs outside usage as an indicator of him not progressing seems silly.
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I agree Lamb is a way better prospect than Benjamin. Not even the same stratosphere but remember people were excited about KB after his rookie year. If the one trick is being big and scoring TDs because nobody can cover you in the RZ, that can work really well for fantasy. I think Lamb is likely a superstar but I do think it's important to watch his usage. Juju might be a better comp. He was probably the #1 WR in dynasty following his sophomore season but there were red flags going into year 3. He no longer had AB or Lev Bell to get attention from defenses and he had only ever been a slot WR. It seems clear now that him being in the slot on a prolific offense with great players around him helped create the perception that Juju was better than he actually was. He is still  a good player but he's not the alpha many expected. 

 
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That is a good point about JuJu and the concern about slot use I hadn't considered.

Is JJSS a niche player? I am reluctant to say that about him. He doesn't seem like a alpha or must be the most targeted WR on a team because he is so good kind of player though.

 
I definitely had Juju in mind when writing that and thinking about it. 

Some of the same analysts anointing Lamb WR1 in dynasty are the same who say/said Juju is/was propped up by his slot usage and a better WR taking away coverage and defensive focus 

I think Lamb can win out the outside too, but does he produce the same for fantasy in that role?  That's similar to the Juju question too I think. 

 
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kittenmittens said:
I definitely had Juju in mind when writing that and thinking about it. 

Some of the same analysts anointing Lamb WR1 in dynasty are the same who say/said Juju is/was propped up by his slot usage and a better WR taking away coverage and defensive focus 

I think Lamb can win out the outside too, but does he produce the same for fantasy in that role?  That's similar to the Juju question too I think. 
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Good point, there are 3 questions really

1. Will the Cowboys ask him to play outside? Or will they bring Cooper and Gallup back the next couple years and keep Lamb in the slot. 

2. Can he win in the NFL on the outside?

3. Can produce WR1 levels on the outside? 

 
Just to note, Lamb is the leader in the NFL in snaps from the slot. 87% of his snaps have him lined up there. While Thomas lined up in the slot a lot last year, he had 95 slot targets and 90 outside targets. It was actually a pretty even split. Lamb's slot % lines up with guys like Crowder , Lockett and Larry Fitz. 

Here is a link on targets in slot vs outside in 2019. The best players who were most frequently used from the slot were Cooper Kupp, Chris Godwin, Tyler Boyd, Allen Robinson and Keenan Allen. 

 
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Dude is fantastic...Dak going out killed his upside.  I traded him in a dynasty league the week before Dak got hurt and hated doing it because he’s going to be a star.  Dalton is just horrendous and his value is greatly dimished this year.   It’s a shame because he was going to have an amazing year on this offense with this defense.

 
Banger said:
Dude is fantastic...Dak going out killed his upside.  I traded him in a dynasty league the week before Dak got hurt and hated doing it because he’s going to be a star.  Dalton is just horrendous and his value is greatly dimished this year.   It’s a shame because he was going to have an amazing year on this offense with this defense.
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I used Dak’s injury as a buy low opportunity. Traded 21 and 22 firsts and a 21 2nd and felt like I robbed the guy. If Dallas sucks and they punt the season (likely), they will feature Lamb imo.

 
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Not that Dalton is going to turn into Russell Wilson, but he won't be this bad every week. And even if he is, the Dallas D is so bad that they will be playing from behind a lot, so there will be plenty of garbage catches and yards to be had.  I think the glass is still half full on him for 2020.

 
CeeDee Lamb caught 7-of-10 targets for 64 yards in the Cowboys' Week 6 loss to the Cardinals.

His 10 targets were tied with Amari Cooper for second on the team behind Ezekiel Elliott's 11 on a night Andy Dalton fired off 54 passes in a blowout loss. Lamb is still going to see heavy volume with Dalton, keeping him on the WR3 map, but this offense is going to be so much worse without Dak Prescott. Lamb gets a date with Washington in Week 7.

Oct 20, 2020, 12:00 AM ET
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My hope is, the first half was Cincy Dalton... just looking for deep shots and pretty immobile and then he at least got working on the screen and short passing game which is going to be what he'll need to have going forward in the current NFL and not the one he came into 10 years ago.  But the Dallas line being in shambles is my top concern limiting dalton and thus Lamb.

 
Ghost Rider said:
Not that Dalton is going to turn into Russell Wilson, but he won't be this bad every week. And even if he is, the Dallas D is so bad that they will be playing from behind a lot, so there will be plenty of garbage catches and yards to be had.  I think the glass is still half full on him for 2020.
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I think they're down 3 tackles on the OL so...sadly Dak getting injured and Dalton under pressure are almost predictable. 

I don't know that any team ever did well playing their third string tackles this often. It seems so brutal.

I'm starting to wonder if they'll have no choice but to run 2 and 3 TE sets and how badly that would impact WR numbers.

Maybe sign a mobile QB? 

It seems like we're not considering the awful OL situation as we predict passing success. 

 
Ghost Rider said:
Not that Dalton is going to turn into Russell Wilson, but he won't be this bad every week. And even if he is, the Dallas D is so bad that they will be playing from behind a lot, so there will be plenty of garbage catches and yards to be had.  I think the glass is still half full on him for 2020.
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 But with no QB at all and no O-line either, it's a disaster.

From explosive promising rookie to irrelevant bench fantasy fodder in 2 weeks.

 
yeah, this is a little bit of a bummer.

All evidence pointed to a minimum top 20 WR. Now he's not startable.

 
Crazy to think about flat dropping Lamb for Higgins in Cleveland? I need a WR, but just don't think he's going to do anything unless Dalton is able to unscramble his eggs.

 
Scooby1974 said:
Crazy to think about flat dropping Lamb for Higgins in Cleveland? I need a WR, but just don't think he's going to do anything unless Dalton is able to unscramble his eggs.
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That exact move happened in my redraft league. Personally, I'd rather keep Lamb, he was very close to 2 TD's last week, but I can understand it. 

I can't justify picking Lamb up off waivers, so I'm not super high on him, but I could see him still being a WR3 once Dalton is healthy. Of course, with Steelers than bye week coming up, it might be until week 11 until he's useable.

 
travdogg said:
That exact move happened in my redraft league. Personally, I'd rather keep Lamb, he was very close to 2 TD's last week, but I can understand it. 

I can't justify picking Lamb up off waivers, so I'm not super high on him, but I could see him still being a WR3 once Dalton is healthy. Of course, with Steelers than bye week coming up, it might be until week 11 until he's useable.
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Oh this pains me after watching the kid roll through this season w/Dak.

 
CeeDee Lamb caught 4-of-5 targets for 27 yards and had a 19-yard run in Week 8 against the Eagles.

Lamb and Amari Cooper took a backseat to Michael Gallup (11 targets) with Ben DiNucci starting. The Cowboys didn’t even attempt to throw it deep, but Dalton Schultz was DiNucci’s preferred checkdown over Lamb in the slot. Lamb was held catchless last week and has taken a step back without Dak Prescott. He’s on pace for an 80/1,048/4 line through the first eight games.

Nov 1, 2020, 11:57 PM ET
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CeeDee Lamb caught 5-of-7 targets for 21 yards in the Cowboys' Week 12 loss to Washington.

A week after one of the best catches of the year, Lamb had a bad touchdown drop in the red zone. It was a classic rookie mistake, something Lamb has mostly avoided after being selected 17th overall. Lamb has star potential long term, but he needs more stability than what Dallas currently offers to be a must-start in fantasy. The Cowboys are likely in trouble next week against the Ravens in Baltimore. They could be without both of their starting offensive tackles.

Nov 26, 2020, 8:24 PM ET
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CeeDee Lamb caught 6-of-9 targets for 46 yards in the Cowboys' Week 13 loss to the Ravens.

Caught in a tough cornerback matchup against Marlon Humphrey, Lamb was mostly operating as an underneath threat for Andy Dalton. Michael Gallup (11 targets) and Amari Cooper (9 targets) were the primary reads in the red zone and down the field. Lamb still offers a ceiling as the Cowboys' slot receiver if only because he's a baller himself. The Cowboys have a chance to put moderate numbers on the board against the Bengals in Week 14. Lamb has settled in as a flex play with Dalton under center.

Dec 8, 2020, 11:41 PM ET
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CeeDee Lamb caught 5-of-7 targets for 85 yards in the Cowboys' Week 15 win over the 49ers.

Lamb returned a late onside attempt by the 49ers for a touchdown to cap off his solid Week 15 performance. The Dallas offense struggled to get much going outside of Tony Pollard's big day but Lamb managed to make do with Andy Dalton's mediocre day. Dallas is throwing often enough that Lamb has been a viable WR3 option even after losing Dak Prescott. He gets the Eagles next week and should continue to produce at that level.

Dec 20, 2020, 5:03 PM ET
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King of the Jungle said:
I was high on Lamb coming out. I still want to see some of that after the catch ability that we saw in college and would like to see him win outside a little bit versus the slot. Promising start but hope to see more as the season progresses.
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That 50-yarder tonight might have been reassuring.

This has been such a great rookie WR class, but he's certainly up near the top.

 
Assuming Prescott heals up and signs a long term deal in Dallas this kid is looking like an easy top 10 dynasty WR for a long time.  

 
CeeDee Lamb caught 5-of-7 targets for 43 yards in the Cowboys' Week 17 loss to the Giants.

Lamb wraps his impressive rookie season 65 yards short of 1,000, finishing with a 74-935-5 line on 111 targets. The targets trailed just Amari Cooper's 130 for the team lead and were six more than Michael Gallup. Working mostly out of the slot, Lamb caught at least five passes in every game with Dak Prescott Weeks 1-5 and had two 100-yard games in that span. He didn't top 85 yards in a game the rest of the way. The sky is the limit with better quarterback play. As long as Prescott is back in 2021, Lamb should be viewed as an upside WR2 in a much healthier offense.

- Rotoworld
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The Dallas Morning News' Michael Gehlken reports Cowboys WR CeeDee Lamb has been playing four different receiver spots during offseason workouts.

"He's an excellent example of what you're looking for in your second-year players," coach Mike McCarthy said of Lamb Thursday. "I see CeeDee making that jump. He is very comfortable, very natural." Lamb is encouragingly being used all over the formation after running 93% of his routes from the slot (and thus playing behind Ced Wilson and Noah Brown at times) as a rookie. Having led the team in end zone targets (3) in Dak Prescott's healthy but short-lived stint last year, Lamb would obviously have a much easier time returning value as the current WR14 in Best-Ball leagues if he's allowed to play multiple roles.

SOURCE: Michael Gehlken on Twitter

Jun 3, 2021, 12:24 PM ET
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McCarthy said before emphasizing that the players whose rookie offseason was hindered by COVID-19 restrictions will have an even greater opportunity of taking advantage of a full nine weeks of offseason activities. "I've always referred to it as the second-year jump."
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See, THAT'S why you hire Mike McCarthy. I mean, what other coach is that insightful?

 
Lamb's 5 (4.5 technically) games w/Dak:

40 targets, 29 receptions, 433 yards, 2 td's

Those are his first 5 games as an NFL rookie with no real off-season.

I'm not normally one for hyperbole but I do think the overall WR1 is in Lamb's range of outcomes.

 
I think the key to Ceedee's expected uptick in performance this season is heavily dependent on him playing more on the outside. Like many of the rookie WRs from last year (Justin Jefferson, Tee Higgins), they mostly operated in the slot. Playing the slot, you're going to see shorter routes albeit at a higher volume but less big play opportunity. So high receptions, lower yardage or outside = yards, inside = receptions. This newish transitional college-to-NFL approach I've been noticing where you're seeing proven perimeter college WRs being asked to play in the slot during their rookie NFL season is a way to expedite their growth and to get them acclimated to the speed of the NFL as quickly possible. With Year 1 out of the way, the logical progression is to get him acclimated on the outside versus the real dogs in the secondary, against the opposing no.1/2 starting cornerbacks vs. playing against a safety or nickel/dime back in the slot. 

For this reason, if he is used more on the outside (which is expected) I expect his receptions to remain near the same but yardage totals go way up. 

 
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