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gianmarco

Neighbor cut down our tree

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1 minute ago, Cjw_55106 said:

You think guys that scale 50 ft trees with chainsaws routinely show up to work drunk? I get where you are coming from on your stance in the thread, but this is reaching quite a bit. 

I think a lot of guys who do backbreaking labor do so under the influence of something. And as a rock climber, I’ve certainly seen more than a few people down some beers and smoke pot pre-climb.

I have a friend who is a tree trimmer; I’ll ask the next time I see him. Also, I’ll ask how commonly the wrong tree is cut down.

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Amicable solution IMO is to have replace the tree. Assuming it's on your property you can probably get a albeit smaller version of the same tree, say maybe 10' from a local nursey. Hickory's grow fairly quickly (2' a year) so in a few years you'll have a sturdy addition to the backyard.

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18 minutes ago, glvsav37 said:

we need a WOW emoji.

50k? was this tree a sacred redwood or something? 

I posted a link above that show calculators for this stuff.  That number doesn't seem crazy at all when you figure that most states figure triple the damages.  From what I'm seeing, mine is in the ballpark of $20K, at least.

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Just now, gianmarco said:

I posted a link above that show calculators for this stuff.  That number doesn't seem crazy at all when you figure that most states figure triple the damages.  From what I'm seeing, mine is in the ballpark of $20K, at least.

What would you rather have:  20 grand or a guy who every time you get out of your car after a long day at work yells to you, "Hot enough for ya?!"

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1 minute ago, beer 30 said:

Amicable solution IMO is to have replace the tree. Assuming it's on your property you can probably get a albeit smaller version of the same tree, say maybe 10' from a local nursey. Hickory's grow fairly quickly (2' a year) so in a few years you'll have a sturdy addition to the backyard.

So at 10' with 2'/year growth, we should be right back where we were in about 30 years.

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Just now, gianmarco said:

So at 10' with 2'/year growth, we should be right back where we were in about 30 years.

And? :lmao:

You can't replace that size of tree unless you are Bill Gates. You could probably get a larger tree but I don't really know at what size it becomes really stupid money to transplant.

If you want to #### the guy over by all means have it but if ultimately you just want a tree back I'd look into it.

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10 hours ago, Terminalxylem said:

You may be right, but it isn't beyond belief that a worker(s) did something stupid. 

If the neighbor was hell-bent on downing the tree, why attempt to contact Gianmarco at all? He could've just played really dumb and plead ignorant of the tree's relationship to the property line.

I think this guy wanted the tree down regardless.  We talked on the phone before meeting and he said he wanted to take the tree down on the property line.  If I'm like some here who don't care for the trees or don't care about it, and I say "sure, no problem" then he's got a green light and all is good.  When I told him we'd meet as I had no interest in taking the tree down, he just had them take it down on Monday and would just deal with it afterwards.  I'm 99.9% convinced of this now based on what's taken place at the time and since then. 

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Just now, beer 30 said:

And? :lmao:

You can't replace that size of tree unless you are Bill Gates. You could probably get a larger tree but I don't really know at what size it becomes really stupid money to transplant.

If you want to #### the guy over by all means have it but if ultimately you just want a tree back I'd look into it.

Why is it dicking the guy over, GB?  He'd be asking for fair value.

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Just now, gianmarco said:

I think this guy wanted the tree down regardless.  We talked on the phone before meeting and he said he wanted to take the tree down on the property line.  If I'm like some here who don't care for the trees or don't care about it, and I say "sure, no problem" then he's got a green light and all is good.  When I told him we'd meet as I had no interest in taking the tree down, he just had them take it down on Monday and would just deal with it afterwards.  I'm 99.9% convinced of this now based on what's taken place at the time and since then. 

Exactly.

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1 minute ago, TheIronSheik said:

Why is it dicking the guy over, GB?  He'd be asking for fair value.

I haven't read through the entire thread although kudos to the FFA, the shtick from page 1 was on point. Has fair value been discussed or what a reasonable fair value would be?

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And if we weren't home at the time, I bet that stump would have been gone first thing as well.  As it is, they were going to remove it yesterday after I let him know that I'm pretty sure it's our tree.  Why wouldn't he tell them at that point to not touch it until it gets resolved?

Edited by gianmarco
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1 minute ago, beer 30 said:

I haven't read through the entire thread although kudos to the FFA, the shtick from page 1 was on point. Has fair value been discussed or what a reasonable fair value would be?

There's been talk about what the normal cost of a mistake like this.  It seems to be very high since the tree is irreplaceable.  We're also leaning towards the neighbor knew what he was doing.  

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I still ask this: What do you want to accomplish here? Is getting 20K +/- important to you for a reason? Is it a life-altering amount of money? Will getting it "make you whole" or something? Are you wanting to "teach the guy a lesson"? Other?

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3 minutes ago, The Iguana said:

I still ask this: What do you want to accomplish here? Is getting 20K +/- important to you for a reason? Is it a life-altering amount of money? Will getting it "make you whole" or something? Are you wanting to "teach the guy a lesson"? Other?

Yes

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4 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

There's been talk about what the normal cost of a mistake like this.  It seems to be very high since the tree is irreplaceable.  We're also leaning towards the neighbor knew what he was doing.  

Just saw that. I don't know what fair value for a mature tree like is but correct, it will be high. If neighbor had intentions of taking down the tree from the get go then yes, he should make Gian whole. Sucks because there isn't a good outcome here. You're either pissing off your neighbor for life or accepting something much less than what you had to start with.

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18 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

What would you rather have:  20 grand or a guy who every time you get out of your car after a long day at work yells to you, "Hot enough for ya?!"

I live in a quiet neighborhood where neighbors don't see much of each other and it's usually a hand wave.  I mean we're there for each other if/when something is needed.  I'd take the $20k.

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31 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

I posted a link above that show calculators for this stuff.  That number doesn't seem crazy at all when you figure that most states figure triple the damages.  From what I'm seeing, mine is in the ballpark of $20K, at least.

But why do you need triple the damages, if you really just want the tree back? Are you trying to punish the guy/teach him a lesson?

ETA I see you’ve already answered downthread. Good luck with that.

Edited by Terminalxylem

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On 10/16/2019 at 8:02 AM, The Iguana said:

I still ask this: What do you want to accomplish here? Is getting 20K +/- important to you for a reason? Is it a life-altering amount of money? Will getting it "make you whole" or something? Are you wanting to "teach the guy a lesson"? Other?

I don't understand what you're getting at here?

I know of very few people that shrug of $20K as no big deal.  It's not life altering, but we're not talking about a couple hundred bucks here either.  When you consider that this guy very likely purposefully removed a tree of this size that is irreplaceable on the same scale when he knew it was on our property, there are consequences for that.  It's why the law is in place as it is and why the consequences of it are pretty significant. 

The landscaping and trees are a big part of why we moved here.  I really wish this hadn't happened.  If I had my druthers, I'd rather the tree was still standing and none of this was going on.  Not that I would pay $20K for a tree, but it was there and it was a beautiful tree in a beautiful location.  I'd prefer his construction truck damaged my car because that can be replaced.

So, with all that info, and since learning that this is not an uncommon thing from construction people (act first, deal with it later), yeah, I'm not letting this go at all.  I'd like to be made whole as best as possible given his actions.

Edited by gianmarco
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31 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

So at 10' with 2'/year growth, we should be right back where we were in about 30 years.

Agree that you’re not likely to get an equivalent replacement, but no amount of cash changes that. 

Edited by Terminalxylem

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2 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

Yes

That question is specifically for @gianmarco rather than the generic debate on this. You obviously are willing to pursue this to the nTH degree but you don't have to live there when it's done.

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3 minutes ago, Terminalxylem said:

But why do you need triple the damages, if you really just want the tree back? Are you trying to punish the guy/teach him a lesson?

I didn't say I need triple the damages.  If the tree is determined to be worth $10K, for example, and the guy offers to plant $10K worth of trees in that area, I'd be fine with it.  I wouldn't ask for more or go after more. 

But if he tries to get away with not fixing this reasonably, then I know what is potentially there.  That's part of getting this info beforehand so I can make a reasonable decision.

Edited by gianmarco
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18 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

I think this guy wanted the tree down regardless.  We talked on the phone before meeting and he said he wanted to take the tree down on the property line.  If I'm like some here who don't care for the trees or don't care about it, and I say "sure, no problem" then he's got a green light and all is good.  When I told him we'd meet as I had no interest in taking the tree down, he just had them take it down on Monday and would just deal with it afterwards.  I'm 99.9% convinced of this now based on what's taken place at the time and since then. 

Sorry, I didn’t understand events unfolded as you described. I thought he tried to contact you, but was unable to before the tree was downed (mistakenly or not).

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10 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

There's been talk about what the normal cost of a mistake like this.  It seems to be very high since the tree is irreplaceable.  We're also leaning towards the neighbor knew what he was doing.  

Its the tree guy at fault here.  The neighbor can be reckless and tell the tree guy to down all the trees, but the guy with the chainsaw has a job to make sure he's not on someone elses property.  

FWIW, I handle a lot of insurance policies for tree guys.  Most of them come with a minimum limit over $25k for over-cut coverage.  Get an arborist to put a value on the tree and get the insurance info from the tree guy.  You really don't even have to involve the neighbor.  

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Just now, Terminalxylem said:

Sorry, I didn’t understand events unfolded as you described. I thought he tried to contact you, but was unable to before the tree was downed (mistakenly or not).

He says he did while we were out of town.  He said he knocked a couple different times and no one answered.  He didn't leave a card or anything.  Finally, last Thursday, he left a card.  I texted him that day and he called that night.  We spoke on the phone, he told me briefly what he was planning and offered to meet to look at it beforehand.  As I didn't want our tree down, I agreed and we planned to catch up this week.  Monday afternoon the tree was down before we got to meet in person.

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15 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

And if we weren't home at the time, I bet that stump would have been gone first thing as well.  As it is, they were going to remove it yesterday after I let him know that I'm pretty sure it's our tree.  Why wouldn't he tell them at that point to not touch it until it gets resolved?

Maybe you should ask him why he was allowing them to remove the stump?

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1 minute ago, jb1020 said:

Its the tree guy at fault here.  The neighbor can be reckless and tell the tree guy to down all the trees, but the guy with the chainsaw has a job to make sure he's not on someone elses property.  

FWIW, I handle a lot of insurance policies for tree guys.  Most of them come with a minimum limit over $25k for over-cut coverage.  Get an arborist to put a value on the tree and get the insurance info from the tree guy.  You really don't even have to involve the neighbor.  

We are getting an arborist today.  That's why I had to ask them to leave the tree there.  Then I'll know what we're dealing with.  If he offers something reasonable along those lines, then we'll be good. 

But at this point, I don't trust this guy at all, especially considering he's moving forward with having this tree taken away pretty quickly (while there's still other trees there to be removed).

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1 minute ago, gianmarco said:

I don't understand what you're getting at here?

I know of very few people that shrug of $20K as no big deal.  It's not life altering, but we're not talking about a couple hundred bucks here either.  When you consider that this guy very likely purposefully removed a tree of this size that is irreplaceable on the same scale when he knew it was on our property, there are consequences for that.  It's why the law is in place as it is and why the consequences of it are pretty significant. 

The landscaping and trees are a big part of why we moved here.  I really wish this hadn't happened.  If had my druthers, I'd rather the tree was still standing and none of this was going on.  Not that I would pay $20K for a tree, but it was there and it was a beautiful tree in a beautiful location.  I'd prefer his construction truck damaged my car because that can be replaced.

So, with all that info, and since learning that this is not an uncommon thing from construction people (act first, deal with it later), yeah, I'm not letting this go at all.  I'd like to be made whole as best as possible given his actions.

So, you aren't getting that tree back. So, what are your motivations? How much time and energy is this issue worth to you? 20K isn't something to sneeze at but making him pay isn't bringing the tree back. Are you worried that your house is now worth 20K less and thus you need your value restored? Or is it important for you to teach some lesson, make a point, get even, something else? 

You are the one that posted this and asked how you should proceed. You have gotten opinions from both extremes and in the middle - everything from "ingore it/let it go" to "sue him for 1 billion dollars!" as well as stuff in the middle. What YOU "should do" depends on what is important to you. There's all kinds of considerations here - what is the tree worth to you? how much does a future relationship with your neighbor matter? what satisfaction are you looking for here? 

There's no perfect "right answer" here. You have options on how to proceed. So, what is really important to you in this situation?

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10 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

 I didn't say I need triple the damages.  If the tree is determined to be worth $10K, for example, and the guy offers to plant $10K worth of trees in that area, I'd be fine with it.  I wouldn't ask for more or go after more. 

But if he tries to get away with not fixing this reasonably, then I know what is potentially there.  That's part of getting this info beforehand so I can make a reasonable decision.

OK. Fair enough. I don’t understand the “stick it to him” mentality in some of these responses, unless you are absolutely certain he lied and intended to do as he pleased from the get-go.

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26 minutes ago, The Iguana said:

That question is specifically for @gianmarco rather than the generic debate on this. You obviously are willing to pursue this to the nTH degree but you don't have to live there when it's done.

I know.  I was just going for the joke, GB.

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24 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

We are getting an arborist today.  That's why I had to ask them to leave the tree there.  Then I'll know what we're dealing with.  If he offers something reasonable along those lines, then we'll be good. 

But at this point, I don't trust this guy at all, especially considering he's moving forward with having this tree taken away pretty quickly (while there's still other trees there to be removed).

This is good. What changed my mind about the guy is him trying to get rid of the evidence quickly. You getting this documented first is a good move!

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New development:

Called an arborist.  Happened to find a company that was actually contacted by the neighbor to clear the trees.  He's already been out there, knows the condition of the trees, and knows which tree I'm talking about because he also warned the neighbor that it looks like it may be ours and the arborist had it circled with a "?" on his plans.  He already has pictures and measurements of the tree.  He advised he talk to us first before doing any work on those trees near the property line.  He ended up not getting the job for whatever reason.

He's coming out today to give us an idea of the condition/value of the tree.  He also said that the neighbor should not do anything with the tree or stump.  In fact, if he tries to before we have a chance to evaluate this, he suggested even calling the police if need be as that could be a criminal matter.  He's dealt with this situation multiple times, he said.  I was a little surprised by that.

Edited by gianmarco
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2 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

New development:

Called an arborist.  Happened to find a company that was actually contacted by the neighbor to clear the trees.  He's already been out there, knows the condition of the trees, and knows which tree I'm talking about because he also warned the neighbor that it looks like it may be ours and the arborist had it circled with a "?" on his plans.  He already has pictures and measurements of the tree.  He advised he talk to us first before doing any work on those trees near the property line.  He ended up not getting the job for whatever reason.

He's coming out today to give us an idea of the condition/value of the tree.  He also said that the neighbor should not do anything with the tree or stump.  In fact, if he tries to before we have a chance to evaluate this, he suggested even calling the police if need be as that could be a criminal matter.  He's dealt with this situation multiple times, he said.  I was a little surprised by that.

Yup.  Sounds shady AF.

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35 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

We are getting an arborist today.  That's why I had to ask them to leave the tree there.  Then I'll know what we're dealing with.  If he offers something reasonable along those lines, then we'll be good. 

But at this point, I don't trust this guy at all, especially considering he's moving forward with having this tree taken away pretty quickly (while there's still other trees there to be removed).

I hate to be that guy, but puns were supposed to be wrapped up by end of page 2. 

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48 minutes ago, The Iguana said:

I still ask this: What do you want to accomplish here? Is getting 20K +/- important to you for a reason? Is it a life-altering amount of money? Will getting it "make you whole" or something? Are you wanting to "teach the guy a lesson"? Other?

Hell yes

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5 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

New development:

Called an arborist.  Happened to find a company that was actually contacted by the neighbor to clear the trees.  He's already been out there, knows the condition of the trees, and knows which tree I'm talking about because he also warned the neighbor that it looks like it may be ours and the arborist had it circled with a "?" on his plans.  He already has pictures and measurements of the tree.  He advised he talk to us first before doing any work on those trees near the property line.  He ended up not getting the job for whatever reason.

He's coming out today to give us an idea of the condition/value of the tree.  He also said that the neighbor should not do anything with the tree or stump.  In fact, if he tries to before we have a chance to evaluate this, he suggested even calling the police if need be as that could be a criminal matter.  He's dealt with this situation multiple times, he said.  I was a little surprised by that.

My oh my.  Interesting turn of events.

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5 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

New development:

Called an arborist.  Happened to find a company that was actually contacted by the neighbor to clear the trees.  He's already been out there, knows the condition of the trees, and knows which tree I'm talking about because he also warned the neighbor that it looks like it may be ours and the arborist had it circled with a "?" on his plans.  He advised he talk to us first before doing any work on those trees near the property line.  He ended up not getting the job for whatever reason.

yeah, I wonder why this guy didn't get the job :whistle:  The neighbor knew what he was doing

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Here's what I would do. No shtick.

Leave the stump. Have a tree carver come out and carve out a little chair for you. Use another of the hickory logs as an end table (somewhere to place your beer).

Sit out there for the next 30 years every chance you get with a cold beer. Watching and filming with your phone his entire construction project. Watching him drive in every night, tipping your beer as a "hello" and reminder of how awesomely petty you are going to be about this. 

 

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So, does the guy doing this even though he knows it is your tree change your approach? And if so, why? And again, what is it you want out of it all? 

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Just now, The Iguana said:

So, does the guy doing this even though he knows it is your tree change your approach? And if so, why? And again, what is it you want out of it all? 

Pretty sure I answered this already.  In a relatively detailed response at that.

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30 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

New development:

Called an arborist.  Happened to find a company that was actually contacted by the neighbor to clear the trees.  He's already been out there, knows the condition of the trees, and knows which tree I'm talking about because he also warned the neighbor that it looks like it may be ours and the arborist had it circled with a "?" on his plans.  He already has pictures and measurements of the tree.  He advised he talk to us first before doing any work on those trees near the property line.  He ended up not getting the job for whatever reason.

He's coming out today to give us an idea of the condition/value of the tree.  He also said that the neighbor should not do anything with the tree or stump.  In fact, if he tries to before we have a chance to evaluate this, he suggested even calling the police if need be as that could be a criminal matter.  He's dealt with this situation multiple times, he said.  I was a little surprised by that.

Awesome. Told you the arborist was the way to go. They know this stuff inside and out. Funny it turns out this guy didn’t get the job. Probably because he told your neighbor not to do what he planned on doing and did.
 

good luck!

Edited by BroncoFreak_2K3
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I knew it sounded shady right from the get go.  I've learned that in this day and age, if it sounds shady, don't give the benefit of the doubt because people are #######s.  And they think they can take advantage of other people's kindness.  

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11 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

I knew it sounded shady right from the get go.  I've learned that in this day and age, if it sounds shady, don't give the benefit of the doubt because people are #######s.  And they think they can take advantage of other people's kindness.  

I thought it sounded a little funky, but only because I think most people are lazy. 

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Haven't read the whole thread, and I've definitely become more of a "don't sweat the small stuff kind of guy" in the past few years, but I don't understand all the focus on Gian not creating bad blood with his neighbor when it was the neighbor here who caused damage to Gian's property, whether on purpose or by accident.  If anything, the neighbor should be the one bending over backwards and committing to make things right so he can preserve positive neighborly relations. 

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8 minutes ago, bigbottom said:

Haven't read the whole thread, and I've definitely become more of a "don't sweat the small stuff kind of guy" in the past few years, but I don't understand all the focus on Gian not creating bad blood with his neighbor when it was the neighbor here who caused damage to Gian's property, whether on purpose or by accident.  If anything, the neighbor should be the one bending over backwards and committing to make things right so he can preserve positive neighborly relations. 

I agree with you. I've also mellowed out a ton over the years. I'm not sure what I would do in this scenario - particularly if the neighbor doesn't try to "fix it". I'm not saying it isn't worth it to pursue action. My questions aren't meant to imply anything is being done wrong if he pursues legal/other actions in this case. More just meant to be questions for him to think about what all of this is worth to him (both monetarily and otherwise) as he is considering his options. 

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1 hour ago, gianmarco said:

We are getting an arborist today.  That's why I had to ask them to leave the tree there.  Then I'll know what we're dealing with.  If he offers something reasonable along those lines, then we'll be good. 

But at this point, I don't trust this guy at all, especially considering he's moving forward with having this tree taken away pretty quickly (while there's still other trees there to be removed).

I actually litigate this stuff.   Do not use an arborist to estimate value.   Use a landscaping company that moves/replaces mature trees.

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Man there are some real doormats posting in here...

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23 hours ago, TheIronSheik said:

Am I the only one who thinks the neighbor is full of crap about telling the tree guys not to cut that down?  I'm guessing he thought it would be easier to claim it was an accident then go through the hassle of having to deal with if it could or could not be cut down.  

This

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