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gianmarco

Neighbor cut down our tree

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16 hours ago, Fat Nick said:

When I first read this, the only thing I could think of was if this line of rationale would work if the neighbor had slept with the OP's wife.  Substitute Wife for Tree.

No, it wouldn't. Despite all the niceties about "being excellent" to one another,  you guys are really pretty obnoxious when disagreement occurs. 

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12 hours ago, The Iguana said:

@gianmarco... The answer to this just came to me while out on a run, so it must be right, right? 

Caveat 1 - if you find out that this is life altering money for you but doesn't send this guy into abject poverty then forget this idea and go improve the life of you children.

Caveat 2 - if the guy voluntarily comes up with a fair deal to make this up to you, take it and everyone is happy.

Otherwise...

The world needs more brotherly love and less eye for an eye, IMO. Continue to find out what is "fair restitution". Once you have that number, go to the guy and make home this offer - instead of suing him for $X that you are sure you can win, tell him he should make a donation for $Y to the charity of your choice, preferably something to help children or the hungry, IMO. Once he agrees, crack open a couple beers, clink glasses and you have a new friend and a funny story about how you met. Oh and have him plant you a new tree that will eventually be a glorious thing. 

The two of you get to do good in the world from a crappy situation and the guy pays his debt. Call me a doormat all you want. It's a good solution.

Doormat alert!

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12 hours ago, The Iguana said:

 

The world needs more brotherly love and less eye for an eye, IMO.

This is music to everyone's ear who is looking to take advantage of you.  

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The way I see the shake it off crowd is the same way as the "I drop a 20 for a maid for a one night hotel stay"

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I honestly think the world needs more kumbaya people, too, now that I think about it.  I wouldn't mind taking advantage of some people who believe in a Utopian society.  And I need some practice to get my training wheels off.   

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1 minute ago, culdeus said:

The way I see the shake it off crowd is the same way as the "I drop a 20 for a maid for a one night hotel stay"

How is that?

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8 minutes ago, Terminalxylem said:

How is that?

Because they love to push things on others they would never do themselves, but it's perfect because such a situation is impossible to fact check.  

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Just now, culdeus said:

Because they love to push things on others they would never do themselves, but it's perfect because such a situation is impossible to fact check.  

So you believe it's desirable to some people to be viewed as a doormat?

Also, I didn't think anyone was pushing anything other than their opinion, which the OP solicited.

But really, you're just extending the "it must be schtick" line of thinking.

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13 minutes ago, Terminalxylem said:

So you believe it's desirable to some people to be viewed as a doormat?

Also, I didn't think anyone was pushing anything other than their opinion, which the OP solicited.

But really, you're just extending the "it must be schtick" line of thinking.

No.  I believe (and these are his words, not mine, I believe) he's saying that online you're taking the "love thy neighbor" routine, but if a neighbor did something to your property, you'd act differently.

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35 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

I honestly think the world needs more kumbaya people, too, now that I think about it.  I wouldn't mind taking advantage of some people who believe in a Utopian society.  And I need some practice to get my training wheels off.   

I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world because they'd never expect it

~Jack Handey 

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Just now, bigbottom said:

I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world because they'd never expect it

~Jack Handey 

It's funny because it's true.

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15 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

No.  I believe (and these are his words, not mine, I believe) he's saying that online you're taking the "love thy neighbor" routine, but if a neighbor did something to your property, you'd act differently.

He's entitled to that opinion, but it's also possible people just have different approaches to life. It doesn't have to be schtick or whatever hypocritical nonsense you're describing. 

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3 minutes ago, Terminalxylem said:

He's entitled to that opinion, but it's also possible people just have different approaches to life. It doesn't have to be schtick or whatever hypocritical nonsense you're describing. 

Again, not my words.  I was just translating what he was saying, GB.

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Down by the hickory tree

Thats where she showed it to me

It was hairy and black, had a big crack 

and look like a jungle to me.

So i took out my hairy banana

Stuck it in the crack.

I gave her some cream

She gave me a scream

So I took my banana back.

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2 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

Again, not my words.  I was just translating what he was saying, GB.

Thanks, I appreciate it. 

I've been on a couple boards the last few years, and both seem to prefer echo chambers to people expressing different perspectives. Human nature I guess.

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21 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

No.  I believe (and these are his words, not mine, I believe) he's saying that online you're taking the "love thy neighbor" routine, but if a neighbor did something to your property, you'd act differently.

I've actually had 2 "tree issues" in the past year. One at my main residence. There's a huge willow tree in the corner of my yard. After a big storm, part of the tree was damaged, fell on my neighbors side and did a little bit of damage to his fence. I didn't notice it had happened because it was winter-ish and not really outside. I did notice when he was doing the clean up and fixing his fence and tried my darnedest to have him let me "make it right". Guy absolutely refused any offer of money or other stuff. Claimed it was fairly cosmetic and not a big deal.

The other was on another property I own. There was a huge, old tree in the corner of my lot. A really nice tree that had been there for at least 50 years, I'd bet considerably more than that. I had some new neighbors move in and they were worried about this tree potentially falling on their house "if anything ever happened". The tree had a unique shape/growth pattern but was a very healthy tree. They even offered to pay to have it cut down. I had a 2nd tree on the other side of the property that definitely needed to be removed but I had not "gotten around to it". I contacted a tree service and paid to have both removed. It was not an insignificant amount to have the majestic, awesome tree removed. And I'm totally bummed to have it be gone despite having quite a few other trees on the property. 

I just can't imagine how a wad of cash is going to make up for the missing tree. Sure you can stick it to the neighbor for being a doosh, I just can't see myself gaining any satisfaction from that. Plant a new tree, watch it grow. Maybe find some wood glue and put the old one back together as a giant puzzle.

:shrug: 

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1 hour ago, TheIronSheik said:

This is music to everyone's ear who is looking to take advantage of you.  

:thumbup:

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What kind of contractor would cut down a tree that may have been past the property line? 

Tree guys have to make sure trees arent in city right of way, easements, or on property lines all the time. 

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35 minutes ago, Terminalxylem said:

He's entitled to that opinion, but it's also possible people just have different approaches to life. It doesn't have to be schtick or whatever hypocritical nonsense you're describing. 

That's great, it's one of those great things about the internet.  Showing your work isn't really required.  You can ascribe all sorts of holier than thou assertions, and who is anyone to challenge you on what a great guy you are.  

On the internet people can be a great tipper, sort all their recycling perfectly, pay for porn, and surely they'd just let their neighbor destroy their #### and let it go because who needs stress of a bad neighbor, right?

It takes no courage to project this, and you walk away with the perceived moral high ground.  Congrats.

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2 hours ago, Terminalxylem said:

I wasn't contesting what he is entitled to under the law. Like the Iguana, I was asking what he hoped to accomplish in pursuing further action.

And that directly answered your question about why he's entitled to damages and also addressed the "punishment" (which let's face it you threw out there in a derogatory manner). I'm not saying people should be "sue happy" but there is a legitimate reason underlying tort law.

Edited by Dr. Octopus

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23 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

And that directly answered your question about why he's entitled to damages and also addressed the "punishment" (which let's face it you threw out there in a derogatory manner. I'm not saying people should be "sue happy" but there is a legitimate reason underlying tort law.

I totally think there is a time and place for restitution, and maybe this is one of them. I can't judge that for gian. Evidence points to the neighbor being an idiot, at the very least. Is that enough to seek damages? Probably not for me but I'm not actually in the situation here so maybe I would whistle a different tune if I were the aggrieved party. Who knows. 

Edited by The Iguana

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2 minutes ago, The Iguana said:

I totally think there is a time and place for restitution, and maybe this is one of them. I can't judge that for gian. Evidence points to the neighbor being an idiot, at the very least. Is that enough to seek damages? Probably not for me but I'm not actually in the situation here so maybe I would whistle a different tune if I were the aggrieved party. Who knows. 

In this situation, I'd say that gian liked that tree a lot and it was something that he valued on his property.  That tree might not hold the same value to you.  But try to imagine it being something that you did value.  I can't tell you what that would be, but something that you liked, something that was part of the reason you bought your house and something that bothered you that was now gone forever.  Would you still just let it go?  Serious question.

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12 minutes ago, The Iguana said:

I totally think there is a time and place for restitution, and maybe this is one of them. I can't judge that for gian. Evidence points to the neighbor being an idiot, at the very least. Is that enough to seek damages? Probably not for me but I'm not actually in the situation here so maybe I would whistle a different tune if I were the aggrieved party. Who knows. 

gianmarco has made it clear that tree was important to him and I'd say the evidence points to the neighbor being unscrupulous not just an idiot.

Maybe you wouldn't care about a neighbor cutting down a tree on your property, which is understandable, but try to imagine a situation that you did care about - maybe he purposely poisoned your dog because he barks too much, or started burning noxious chemicals in his backyard and the smoke drifted into your yard, or he knocked down your shed because he thought it was an eyesore....

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16 hours ago, Major said:

I hate people that take advantage of other's kindness.  I can't imagine killing an old healthy tree that's not even yours because you despise acorns.   Make him pay and sleep with his wife. 

Why make the wife suffer too?

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41 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

gianmarco has made it clear that tree was important to him and I'd say the evidence points to the neighbor being unscrupulous not just an idiot.

Maybe you wouldn't care about a neighbor cutting down a tree on your property, which is understandable, but try to imagine a situation that you did care about - maybe he purposely poisoned your dog because he barks too much, or started burning noxious chemicals in his backyard and the smoke drifted into your yard, or he knocked down your shed because he thought it was an eyesore....

This is a great example.  Dogs aren't worth much monetarily.  But you can't "replace" an actual dog.  So does getting a check for $3K or $5K or $20K bring the dog back?  Of course not.  But you better believe I'd go after every penny I could from someone that did that. 

This truly isn't that far off in terms of how I feel about what happened being almost 100% certain of his intent here.  This isn't a money grab.  I'm telling you if the guy offered me a check of $20K today and I had the option of taking it or just going back in time and not having to deal with any of this, I'd rather just have the tree.  But I'm not turning down his check of $20K when he intentionally took down a tree he was clearly advised was almost certainly not on his property before it came down.

Edited by gianmarco
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Update:

His survey came out today and is completed.  The tree is 90% on our side confirmed by his survey.  He was out there this morning too.  He said he thought the tree was on his side when he looked at initial plans when he started to plan the project.  No mention of hearing otherwise from our arborist.  He did mention he knew they were out there and that he knows them from getting them out there for a bid.  He did take responsibility for it coming down and says he will "make it right".  He also said "so it looks like this tree is 75% yours and 25% mine".  I guess he thinks I don't know how this works at this point.

He is getting someone out today on his own to assess the value of the tree.  He then said once we get the appraisals, I can let him know what we'd like.  I didn't answer.  Toward the end of the conversation, I explained to him, seeing as he's in the construction business and likely knows more people in landscaping and things of that nature, for him to let ME know what he's willing to do and then we'd see if it was reasonable.  There is zero chance I'm starting any kind of offer to him.

So now we wait.  I should hear from him next week.  I've got all the information I need now.  Hopefully he plans on making it right with something acceptable and we can be done. 

Edited by gianmarco
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8 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Update:

His survey came out today and is completed.  The tree is 90% on our side confirmed by his survey.  He was out there this morning too.  He said he thought the tree was on his side when he looked at initial plans when he started to plan the project.  No mention of hearing otherwise from our arborist.  He did mention he knew they were out there and that he knows them from getting them out there for a bid.  He did take responsibility for it coming down and says he will "make it right".  He also said "so it looks like this tree is 75% yours and 25% mine".  I guess he thinks I don't know how this works at this point.

He is getting someone out today on his own to assess the value of the tree.  He then said once we get the appraisals, I can let him know what we'd like.  I didn't answer.  Toward the end of the conversation, I explained to him, seeing as he's in the construction business and likely knows more people in landscaping and things of that nature, for him to let ME know what he's willing to do and then we'd see if it was reasonable.  There is zero chance I'm starting any kind of offer to him.

So now we wait.  I should hear from him next week.  I've got all the information I need now.  Hopefully he plans on making it right with something acceptable and we can be done. 

This guy has some nerve.

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13 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Update:

His survey came out today and is completed.  The tree is 90% on our side confirmed by his survey.  He was out there this morning too.  He said he thought the tree was on his side when he looked at initial plans when he started to plan the project.  No mention of hearing otherwise from our arborist.  He did mention he knew they were out there and that he knows them from getting them out there for a bid.  He did take responsibility for it coming down and says he will "make it right".  He also said "so it looks like this tree is 75% yours and 25% mine".  I guess he thinks I don't know how this works at this point.

He is getting someone out today on his own to assess the value of the tree.  He then said once we get the appraisals, I can let him know what we'd like.  I didn't answer.  Toward the end of the conversation, I explained to him, seeing as he's in the construction business and likely knows more people in landscaping and things of that nature, for him to let ME know what he's willing to do and then we'd see if it was reasonable.  There is zero chance I'm starting any kind of offer to him.

So now we wait.  I should hear from him next week.  I've got all the information I need now.  Hopefully he plans on making it right with something acceptable and we can be done. 

Did the surveyor stake out the property line both front and back corners so you know exactly the line at this point? Thinking for future foliage this guy will try and remove.

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1 minute ago, ChiefD said:

Did the surveyor stake out the property line both front and back corners so you know exactly the line at this point? Thinking for future foliage this guy will try and remove.

Yes, there are stakes all up and down the line.  The rest of the foliage he wants to remove is mostly on our side as well.  I told him we don't want anything cut on our side of the stakes.

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Just now, gianmarco said:

Yes, there are stakes all up and down the line.  The rest of the foliage he wants to remove is mostly on our side as well.  I told him we don't want anything cut on our side of the stakes.

Awesome. :thumbup:

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41 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Did you post a photo yet showing how the whole thing looks from say your house?  Would be interesting to see the whole 'picture', so to speak

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43 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

also, small item but don't we need two dots to draw a line?  With the one dot, his portion can be anything from 10-50%, no?

 

edit to add, 10-90% really I suppose, but you've already said it's mostly on your side

Edited by wilked

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Just now, wilked said:

Did you post a photo yet showing how the whole thing looks from say your house?  Would be interesting to see the whole 'picture', so to speak

Nope.  One of the parties is behaving reasonably.  The other is being a bit irrational.  I determined which was which.

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Just now, wilked said:

also, small item but don't we need two dots to draw a line?  With the one dot, his portion can be anything from 10-50%, no?

Unless you think I'm trying to be misleading here, I took the picture with the property line running parallel to the bottom of the picture (i.e. straight across). 

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5 minutes ago, wilked said:

also, small item but don't we need two dots to draw a line?  With the one dot, his portion can be anything from 10-50%, no?

 

edit to add, 10-90% really I suppose, but you've already said it's mostly on your side

Here are your 2 points

My property is on the right side of the picture, if you believe I'm not trying to be misleading.  You can also see the "X" on the downed tree, if you believe that's the actual tree that I'm talking about.

Edited by gianmarco
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3 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Unless you think I'm trying to be misleading here, I took the picture with the property line running parallel to the bottom of the picture (i.e. straight across). 

Then it appears you were standing on his property when you took the photo.  GET OFF OF HIS LAWN!

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5 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Unless you think I'm trying to be misleading here, I took the picture with the property line running parallel to the bottom of the picture (i.e. straight across). 

like this?

 

https://imgur.com/qPclnUU

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2 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Here are your 2 points

My property is on the right side of the picture, if you believe I'm not trying to be misleading.  You can also see the "X" on the downed tree, if you believe that's the actual tree that I'm talking about.

photos help

 

From what I can tell, it would have been a close call to say which line the tree fell on if just stakes were used (I am picturing stakes every 10 yards or so).  It does seem clear that at a minimum it would have been too close to call though and likely shared across the property line, ie can't take it down without consent.  

 

In short, I tend to agree here - neighbor screwed up

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Sounds like your neighbor is more than a bit of a #### so you're in a tricky situation.  He may say the right things but as you've written it, there's no doubt that he knew what he was doing and was in a "ask for forgiveness instead of permission" mode.   I read iguana's suggestion which had merit but for me might be a little too milquetoast.  I think I'd probably be a little more aggressive and let him know who the alpha dog is so he doesn't try to pull any other shady #### in the future.  That approach risks escalating the situation to the point of no return though.  

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5 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Here are your 2 points

My property is on the right side of the picture, if you believe I'm not trying to be misleading.  You can also see the "X" on the downed tree, if you believe that's the actual tree that I'm talking about.

Banana for scale?

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1 hour ago, gianmarco said:

Update:

His survey came out today and is completed.  The tree is 90% on our side confirmed by his survey.  He was out there this morning too.  He said he thought the tree was on his side when he looked at initial plans when he started to plan the project.  No mention of hearing otherwise from our arborist.  He did mention he knew they were out there and that he knows them from getting them out there for a bid.  He did take responsibility for it coming down and says he will "make it right".  He also said "so it looks like this tree is 75% yours and 25% mine".  I guess he thinks I don't know how this works at this point.

He is getting someone out today on his own to assess the value of the tree.  He then said once we get the appraisals, I can let him know what we'd like.  I didn't answer.  Toward the end of the conversation, I explained to him, seeing as he's in the construction business and likely knows more people in landscaping and things of that nature, for him to let ME know what he's willing to do and then we'd see if it was reasonable.  There is zero chance I'm starting any kind of offer to him.

So now we wait.  I should hear from him next week.  I've got all the information I need now.  Hopefully he plans on making it right with something acceptable and we can be done. 

At this point does anyone not think this guy sounds like a total slimeball?

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1 minute ago, Dr. Octopus said:

At this point does anyone not think this guy sounds like a total slimeball?

He might be a slimeball, but what from that post makes him one? 

 

Is it that he came out with 75% instead of 90%?  

 

Seems like he screwed up, whether intentionally or not.  Since then his actions have been:

-Order a 3rd party survey (now complete)

-Meet with neighbor and review results of survey.  Take responsibility, admit he messed up

-Order an appraisal of the value of the tree to be used in settling the issue financially

 

What would you have him do differently (after the situation happened)?

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