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Joe Bryant

A Plea To Please Be Excellent To Each Other

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Hey Folks,

I'm going ask here that we please take a step back and try to be excellent to each other. 

I get it that we're in stressful times. Maybe more stressful than many can remember. 

But I'm adamant that I want us to continue to be kind and excellent to each other. 

I'm fully aware that's maybe a pipe dream in 2019. But we're going to try. 

I assume all of you are intelligent people. You know full well the effects of your words when you type them. You know when something will jab "the other side". You know when you're intellectually bullying people not as witty as you. You know when your words are going to embarrass someone. Or anger someone. 

I'm asking that you don't do those things. 

For a couple of reasons.

#1. I don't think they encourage good discussion. I think they inhibit it. 

I'm NOT saying we all have to agree. Far from it. It's more difficult but you can absolutely disagree and still be civil. Please do that. 

#2. The constant snarky unexcellent stuff contributes to the already toxic environment we're in. I want things to be better, not worse. 

Now I also fully understand there are some people pushed so far they are "taking the gloves off" and are ready to fight anyone who doesn't agree with them.

I understand that feeling. I'm asking that you not do it here. 

I know lots will disagree with this. I don't want to sound all dictatory, but this is pretty much how we're going to do it here. I'm prepared to go down with the ship here in keeping this a civil place. If we can't do that, we simply won't have a board. I know that will generate a lot of :rolleyes: but that's how I feel. This board is very much a reflection of me. I'm not a screen name. 

Please give us and me enough respect to do that. 

And I have to be clear too, people that won't do this won't be allowed to post. 

Please be excellent to each other and help us.

 

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Radical idea but what if you purged every old thread, and let it all start anew.   That could be kinda fun

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I certainly hope we can all live up to that, and for my part I certainly apologize for my own lack of gloves.  I will go directly to Amazon right after this post.

 

If we still can't be nice to each other, I saw a solution for times as tumultuous as these these in a movie, when no one would be excellent to each other.  The movie was called "The Purge."  I know what you're thinking, but I really feel like we could make this work.

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Love you buddy, I really do.  I can't thank you enough for the gift you, David and gang given me, us. The impact on my life is immeasurable. 

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I can certainly imagine that moderating this forum isn't a lot of fun, but I agree 100% with what Sherrif Bart said.  During my time at FBG, I've gotten to "know" a bunch of bright people who I never would have met otherwise.  Once you learn to tune out some of the usual suspects, you can have good, intelligent conversations here.  You should be proud of the fact that you've been able to maintain a site like this for so long.

Also, you need to bring back the yoga pants thread.

Keep up the good work!

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I look forward to the new version of the PSF you want to implement.  I know I'm guilty at times of things you don't want to see but really look forward to you eliminating all the nonsense, jabs, and back/forth that ruin most threads.  I agree with Supermike above that purging everything and starting over is a good idea too to help that process.

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14 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I can certainly imagine that moderating this forum isn't a lot of fun, but I agree 100% with what Sherrif Bart said.  During my time at FBG, I've gotten to "know" a bunch of bright people who I never would have met otherwise.  Once you learn to tune out some of the usual suspects, you can have good, intelligent conversations here.  You should be proud of the fact that you've been able to maintain a site like this for so long.

Also, you need to bring back the yoga pants thread.

Keep up the good work!

I miss the "who's hottest" and "oddly attractive" threads immensely.  I would be the most excellent guy in the world to have those back.

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Starting with "Clean Slate" in the PSF does sound like a good idea. 

Stressful times?  I work hard and spend free time with my family. Only stress I feel is making my paycheck go a little farther.

Edited by Summer Wheat
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Maybe our politicians could learn a bit from Joe’s plea. Too much nastiness from our leaders is causing hatred to grow. Some politicians literally incite physical harm or look the other way when violence occurs.

Why isn’t anyone running on healing the nation instead of tearing it apart? I can’t help but feel like the divide and conquer strategy is being used on us. While we are fighting each other the constitution burns and the slow march towards communist Chinese rule continues.

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I appreciate the effort but I have a question. I agree that we should all do a better job in not "attacking" our fellow posters, but what is the stance on calling out and criticizing public figures? In this current atmosphere they certainly deserve it. I had a timeout a while back for calling out Republicans in Congress for giving ridiculous cover for Trump. Not sure how that crosses the line in being excellent to each other. I think public figures in the political arena should be fair game. Is there a problem with that?

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2 minutes ago, cap'n grunge said:

I appreciate the effort but I have a question. I agree that we should all do a better job in not "attacking" our fellow posters, but what is the stance on calling out and criticizing public figures? In this current atmosphere they certainly deserve it. I had a timeout a while back for calling out Republicans in Congress for giving ridiculous cover for Trump. Not sure how that crosses the line in being excellent to each other. I think public figures in the political arena should be fair game. Is there a problem with that?

I think calling out Maxine Waters for her violent rant against the red team voters is warranted. You can do that with out being nasty though.

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2 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:

be excellent to each other.

Noted.  And apologize for my human failings.

 

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No.

 

(kidding!!!)

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3 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:

Hey Folks,

I'm going ask here that we please take a step back and try to be excellent to each other. 

I get it that we're in stressful times. Maybe more stressful than many can remember. 

But I'm adamant that I want us to continue to be kind and excellent to each other. 

I'm fully aware that's maybe a pipe dream in 2019. But we're going to try. 

I assume all of you are intelligent people. You know full well the effects of your words when you type them. You know when something will jab "the other side". You know when you're intellectually bullying people not as witty as you. You know when your words are going to embarrass someone. Or anger someone. 

I'm asking that you don't do those things. 

For a couple of reasons.

#1. I don't think they encourage good discussion. I think they inhibit it. 

I'm NOT saying we all have to agree. Far from it. It's more difficult but you can absolutely disagree and still be civil. Please do that. 

#2. The constant snarky unexcellent stuff contributes to the already toxic environment we're in. I want things to be better, not worse. 

Now I also fully understand there are some people pushed so far they are "taking the gloves off" and are ready to fight anyone who doesn't agree with them.

I understand that feeling. I'm asking that you not do it here. 

I know lots will disagree with this. I don't want to sound all dictatory, but this is pretty much how we're going to do it here. I'm prepared to go down with the ship here in keeping this a civil place. If we can't do that, we simply won't have a board. I know that will generate a lot of :rolleyes: but that's how I feel. This board is very much a reflection of me. I'm not a screen name. 

Please give us and me enough respect to do that. 

And I have to be clear too, people that won't do this won't be allowed to post. 

Please be excellent to each other and help us.

 

Well..the FFA is still a great place and will rarely have issues.   The PSF is so full of snarky hatred it is difficult to even post there at time.   So one will always stay afloat, the other you might be playing "Nearer To My God" for soon.

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Is it a mere coincidence that this comes from Joe then shortly after the spamming began?  Last second hail mary of sorts?

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1 hour ago, pinkham13 said:

Maybe our politicians could learn a bit from Joe’s plea. Too much nastiness from our leaders is causing hatred to grow. Some politicians literally incite physical harm or look the other way when violence occurs.

Why isn’t anyone running on healing the nation instead of tearing it apart? I can’t help but feel like the divide and conquer strategy is being used on us. While we are fighting each other the constitution burns and the slow march towards communist Chinese rule continues.

I don't think people know how to talk to each other anymore.  Everywhere you look you just see terrible examples.  From politicians, to talking heads, to social media.  It is mostly hostile towards one another when there is any disagreement.  Here are typical downfalls where discussions go south.

1.  Only focus o  the weakest point to attack and ignore the strongest which might be agreeable.

2.  Project evil motives in people you disagree with.

3.  Throw in some personal jab.

4.  Exaggerate or twist what was said to create a strawman.

5.  Employ guilt by association. 

The focus of discussions needs to be less on winning an arguement or knocking the other side down.  The focus needs to be on adding factual points, presenting your views in a respectful manner, and acknowledge legitimate points even if they might go against your values.  Especially acknowledge points you do agree with.  Points are usually made in good faith, so don't assume otherwise.   

As much as I criticize this place, it is still far better than most.  But the level of discourse between the various sides is at an all-time low and we as a society need to recognize the downfall and learn to improve.  It is not all about winning a point and belittling the opponent.  It needs to be about building both sides up.  

Edited by jon_mx
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24 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

Well..the FFA is still a great place and will rarely have issues.   The PSF is so full of snarky hatred it is difficult to even post there at time.   So one will always stay afloat, the other you might be playing "Nearer To My God" for soon.

Surprised nobody has made a stink about it...but a portion of my son’s marching band show is this song with an an incredible solo.

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Well, I just discarded a post that said "Christo is the worst" in response to someone else complaining about him. Now, Christo and I have been ragging on each other for close to twenty years here and he might (never really sure about him) have found it funny and everybody who's ever jawed at Christo in a soccer or football thread would have found it funny and chances are good that Christo would have busted back on me with something ten times as mean and 20 times as funny. But I couldn't take the chance of posting it.

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1 hour ago, jon_mx said:

I don't think people know how to talk to each other anymore.  Everywhere you look you just see terrible examples.  From politicians, to talking heads, to social media.  It is mostly hostile towards one another when there is any disagreement.  Here are typical downfalls where discussions go south.

1.  Only focus o  the weakest point to attack and ignore the strongest which might be agreeable.

2.  Project evil motives in people you disagree with.

3.  Throw in some personal jab.

4.  Exaggerate or twist what was said to create a strawman.

5.  Employ guilt by association. 

The focus of discussions needs to be less on winning an arguement or knocking the other side down.  The focus needs to be on adding factual points, presenting your views in a respectful manner, and acknowledge legitimate points even if they might go against your values.  Especially acknowledge points you do agree with.  Points are usually made in good faith, so don't assume otherwise.   

As much as I criticize this place, it is still far better than most.  But the level of discourse between the various sides is at an all-time low and we as a society need to recognize the downfall and learn to improve.  It is not all about winning a point and belittling the opponent.  It needs to be about building both sides up.  

I think this is an excellent post and you have hit on most of the ways discussions go bad. I've been guilty of a lot of these things, and I am going to renew efforts to improve. I hope you'll also try to be the change you wish to see.

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Fine thread. Fine sentiment. But I must say that I think a purge is wrong. History happens, opinions are formed and shared. I find it helpful, comforting even, to know that they been documented and are something we can go back to next week, month, year. And amen on reinstating Yoga pants etc. even though I’m sure that’s a closed door.

Edited by pecorino
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4 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I think this is an excellent post and you have hit on most of the ways discussions go bad. I've been guilty of a lot of these things, and I am going to renew efforts to improve. I hope you'll also try to be the change you wish to see.

I appreciate that and know we all have room for improvement. 

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Ahh, Joe’s bi-annual plea to do better in the crapshoot PF. I figured we were due for another soon. Rinse and repeat in a few months after no changes occur.

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7 minutes ago, ShamrockPride said:

Ahh, Joe’s bi-annual plea to do better in the crapshoot PF. I figured we were due for another soon. Rinse and repeat in a few months after no changes occur.

I believe he is sincere in his shutting down this forum if conditions do not improve. 

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I've received some TOs, and they were rightfully so.  I do like these political forums better than alternatives.  Don't want to see it go away.  You have my word that I'll do better to keep the peace, J.  

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I don’t understand what a purge is supposed to accomplish. 

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7 minutes ago, dgreen said:

I don’t understand what a purge is supposed to accomplish. 

A fresh start. That way people can’t go digging back 7 months to pull out some dirty laundry agaisnt other posters.

Edited by ShamrockPride
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I think people could be better to each other. Lots of over reactions these days. 

I also think society is taking a bad turn when we ban people for talking. You may not like what someone says but you can choose to ignore them. Shutting down free speech is the first step to communism.

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3 minutes ago, ShamrockPride said:

A fresh start. That way people can’t go digging back 7 months to pull out some dirty laundry agaisnt other posters.

How is that different than anything that has ever gone on with this forum?

What's wrong with people being held accountable with what they post?

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11 minutes ago, dgreen said:

I don’t understand what a purge is supposed to accomplish. 

Agreed.

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1 minute ago, urbanhack said:

How is that different than anything that has ever gone on with this forum?

What's wrong with people being held accountable with what they post?

Because it doesn’t allow the board to move on to the new culture Joe claims to want here. If you’re sifting through stuff to find a gotcha moment, then you’re always going to be stuck in the past focusing on older repeated points.

For the record, I really don’t care if a purge happens or not. The PF is my 3rd most frequented forum here.

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Very good point that you are not a screen name here.  So that's the solution.  Pick a screen name and just hide behind it, then we can treat each other however we want and it wont reflect bad on you!  Maybe someone can give you the keys to the Gordon Gekko account or something like that.  

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Is it really that crazy in here? Mods do a great (and thankless job) wish there were a bit more participants but we got a bit of a niche audience here.

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#nopurge

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1 minute ago, The General said:

Is it really that crazy in here? Mods do a great (and thankless job) wish there were a bit more participants but we got a bit of a niche audience here.

That is part of the problem, it is too much of a niche which does it's best to exclude.  It is not wonderful for someone to come in and immediately be accused of being a troll or an alias or a parrot.   

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6 hours ago, Sheriff Bart said:

Love you buddy, I really do.  I can't thank you enough for the gift you, David and gang given me, us. The impact on my life is immeasurable. 

Wow. Thank you GB. That's super kind. Thanks. 

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3 hours ago, cap'n grunge said:

I appreciate the effort but I have a question. I agree that we should all do a better job in not "attacking" our fellow posters, but what is the stance on calling out and criticizing public figures? In this current atmosphere they certainly deserve it. I had a timeout a while back for calling out Republicans in Congress for giving ridiculous cover for Trump. Not sure how that crosses the line in being excellent to each other. I think public figures in the political arena should be fair game. Is there a problem with that?

This isn't going to turn into the "whine about the moderation thread". As always, people never quite get it correct. Looks like you got a couple of days for "These holier than thou Trump defenders have no souls. A blight on the history of this great Republic." 

Labeling people as having no souls is exactly what I'm talking about not wanting and that's exactly the kind of thing people will be suspended for. Please don't do that again. 

I want us to have a board where we're civil to each other. And I don't doubt you think they don't have a soul. I'm saying if you want to post that kind of thing, do it somewhere else. Here, we're going to try and be civil. 

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1 hour ago, pecorino said:

Fine thread. Fine sentiment. But I must say that I think a purge is wrong. History happens, opinions are formed and shared. I find it helpful, comforting even, to know that they been documented and are something we can go back to next week, month, year.

This is my sentiment but I also acknowledge guy’s got work to do. I don’t think he and others always have time to break concentration from ranking a WR as WR15 or WR25, which is basic livelihood, to descend down here and slap heads. It would be nice if grown men (mostly) would act that way.

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54 minutes ago, beef said:

I've received some TOs, and they were rightfully so.  I do like these political forums better than alternatives.  Don't want to see it go away.  You have my word that I'll do better to keep the peace, J.  

Thank you GB.

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And a purge isn't an option. 

If it all goes down it'll all go down. It won't be a purge and start back up. 

By far my preference is to keep the forum alive. But y'all are going to have to please help me. 

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15 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

And a purge isn't an option. 

If it all goes down it'll all go down. It won't be a purge and start back up. 

By far my preference is to keep the forum alive. But y'all are going to have to please help me. 

Try this as a closer:

History will look upon you favorably if you get this done the right and humane way. It will look upon you forever as the devil if good things don’t happen. Don’t be a tough guy. Don’t be a fool!

I will call you later.

Edited by saintfool
mood lightening

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24 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

That is part of the problem, it is too much of a niche which does it's best to exclude.  It is not wonderful for someone to come in and immediately be accused of being a troll or an alias or a parrot.   

I don’t get some of the random bickering but I do think it’s pretty limited and mods seem to shut it down. Just my opinion and I could definitely miss stuff.

Personally I think Trump’s craziness has contributed to a lot of the same stuff being repeated over and over again. I think a lot of conservatives are eager to get their party back. We’ll see what happens to the forum under another leader. 

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7 minutes ago, The General said:

I don’t get some of the random bickering but I do think it’s pretty limited and mods seem to shut it down. Just my opinion and I could definitely miss stuff.

Personally I think Trump’s craziness has contributed to a lot of the same stuff being repeated over and over again. I think a lot of conservatives are eager to get their party back. We’ll see what happens to the forum under another leader. 

You aren't helping the divide by saying Trump is crazy.  I realize this is on the low end on Trump insults here.  Just today, Tobias and Christo called Trump a racist and someone else compared Trump supporters to Nazi supporters.

I will try and be better towards posters and not retaliate but it difficult when any opposing view is ridiculed.  95% of the emoji reactions I get are the echo chamber lefties laughing which is straight trolling.  I guess that is cool here.

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11 minutes ago, The General said:

I don’t get some of the random bickering but I do think it’s pretty limited and mods seem to shut it down. Just my opinion and I could definitely miss stuff.

Personally I think Trump’s craziness has contributed to a lot of the same stuff being repeated over and over again. I think a lot of conservatives are eager to get their party back. We’ll see what happens to the forum under another leader. 

Of course Trump has contributed to making the problem worse.  But I also believe Trump was in response to the problem.  

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37 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

This isn't going to turn into the "whine about the moderation thread". As always, people never quite get it correct. Looks like you got a couple of days for "These holier than thou Trump defenders have no souls. A blight on the history of this great Republic." 

Labeling people as having no souls is exactly what I'm talking about not wanting and that's exactly the kind of thing people will be suspended for. Please don't do that again. 

I want us to have a board where we're civil to each other. And I don't doubt you think they don't have a soul. I'm saying if you want to post that kind of thing, do it somewhere else. Here, we're going to try and be civil. 

is "blight on the history of this great republic" acceptable if we leave out the souls part? 

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3 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

You aren't helping the divide by saying Trump is crazy.  I realize this is on the low end on Trump insults here.  Just today, Tobias and Christo called Trump a racist and someone else compared Trump supporters to Nazi supporters.

I will try and be better towards posters and not retaliate but it difficult when any opposing view is ridiculed.  95% of the emoji reactions I get are the echo chamber lefties laughing which is straight trolling.  I guess that is cool here.

Trump has exhibited racist behavior so that is not a stretch. Some, not all, of his supporters are white supremacists. That's just a fact. He also has a hold on alot of supporters that is similar to that of Hitler's sway over his true believers. Probably shouldn't use the words Hitler or Nazi though as they are extremes and charged words but I get the comparison.

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3 minutes ago, snitwitch said:

is "blight on the history of this great republic" acceptable if we leave out the souls part? 

Probably. I guess I need an editor.

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6 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

You aren't helping the divide by saying Trump is crazy.  I realize this is on the low end on Trump insults here.  Just today, Tobias and Christo called Trump a racist and someone else compared Trump supporters to Nazi supporters.

I will try and be better towards posters and not retaliate but it difficult when any opposing view is ridiculed.  95% of the emoji reactions I get are the echo chamber lefties laughing which is straight trolling.  I guess that is cool here.

Fair enough.

I don’t think calling what is happening right now “crazy” is extreme. It is crazy compared to what we have had. We seemingly get a new thing every week or so. 

Blasting someone as a nazi isn’t cool if that is what happened.

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