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*** Official *** Star Wars Episode 9: The Rise of Skywalker

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I also thought clones were a possibility. The Sith have obviously dealt with clones before and even smoke was cloned. 

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4 minutes ago, Insein said:

Lol. "Read the book to find the real reason even though I think the books suck ### but not this book because I like what happens."

Huh?  The novelization of the movie, that is basically ok’d by Kennedy, the studio, and is essentially a Disney-verified explanation of the events that happened in the movie is quite a different thing than what I assume you’re referring to, the fan-fiction crap from 25 years ago that you can’t seem to let go.

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6 minutes ago, shader said:

Huh?  The novelization of the movie, that is basically ok’d by Kennedy, the studio, and is essentially a Disney-verified explanation of the events that happened in the movie is quite a different thing than what I assume you’re referring to, the fan-fiction crap from 25 years ago that you can’t seem to let go.

Man you really hate Lucas Star Wars for some reason. If it wasn't for those novels keeping the fandom alive from the late 80's into the 90's, Lucas has said he might never have decided to write the Prequels. Lucas enjoyed the EU and where the story progressed too. He made executive decisions on it. Some good, some bad. The books continued all the way up until Disney got hold of things and sold incredibly well. 

So if the novels sanctioned by Lucas and written by actual, competent writers is fanfiction, then what are the half assed, made up as we go plots of these 3 movies considered? Grade school fiction essays?

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9 minutes ago, Insein said:

Man you really hate Lucas Star Wars for some reason. If it wasn't for those novels keeping the fandom alive from the late 80's into the 90's, Lucas has said he might never have decided to write the Prequels. Lucas enjoyed the EU and where the story progressed too. He made executive decisions on it. Some good, some bad. The books continued all the way up until Disney got hold of things and sold incredibly well. 

So if the novels sanctioned by Lucas and written by actual, competent writers is fanfiction, then what are the half assed, made up as we go plots of these 3 movies considered? Grade school fiction essays?

I think I remember hearing that it was supposed to be a 9 part series from the very beginning, but I could be mistaken. I was young when I heard it.

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27 minutes ago, shader said:

He did die.  He even said it.  He came back from the dead.  Something he hinted at having the power to do in episode 3.  He referenced that line in 9, and his ability to have survived episode 6 has long been speculated about.

As to the reasons for why this death at the hands of all the Jedi is probably final, I suppose the novelization will fully flesh that out...or not........

Yep, so he can basically never die.  How is this time any different from last time?  

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27 minutes ago, Insein said:

Lol. "Read the book to find the real reason even though I think the books suck ### but not this book because I like what happens."

Isn't this an example of "bad writing " that he said he didn't see a specific criticism for?

 

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2 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Yep, so he can basically never die.  How is this time any different from last time?  

Gotta wait for episode 12

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Just now, KarmaPolice said:

Yep, so he can basically never die.  How is this time any different from last time?  

If I had to guess, it would be because his other deaths were at the hands of others, and this one was because his own power was reflected back at him. I remember him telling Anakin the story of Darth Plagueis, who could raise others from the dead but not himself. Maybe this is the same thing?

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25 minutes ago, shader said:

Huh?  The novelization of the movie, that is basically ok’d by Kennedy, the studio, and is essentially a Disney-verified explanation of the events that happened in the movie is quite a different thing than what I assume you’re referring to, the fan-fiction crap from 25 years ago that you can’t seem to let go.

So you don't think there is some onus on the people doing the movies to flesh this out during the movies?  We have to read the novelization to understand WTF was going on with some of these plot points?

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Just now, Kal El said:

If I had to guesrs, it would be because his other deaths were at the hands of others, and this one was because his own power was reflected back at him. I remember him telling Anakin the story of Dath Plagueis, who could raise others from the dead but not himself. Maybe this is the same thing?

This is basically my point.  Supposedly this is the end of this story and the end of these characters.  

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Just now, KarmaPolice said:

This is basically my point.  Supposedly this is the end of this story and the end of these characters.  

If it is, that's fine by me. There's a literal galaxy they could explore instead if dealing with 3+ generations of family squabbling.

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43 minutes ago, shader said:

It’s interesting to read some reviews from 1983. If there was a RT then, I’d love to know what the score would have been. I’d predict quite low.

 

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/library/film/052583jedi.html
 

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/star-wars-return-jedi-1983-752678

I think in the context of any review from the time, these were "serious" critics who had risen through the French New Wave into the Auteur movement of the 70's and that was their taste and aesthetic.  I don't know this to be fact but I just remember this from the time, I think why Siskel and Ebert took off was they were able to review and digest movies as they were intended for a given audience and not reward or penalize everything for how close it got to be Goddard.  Its hard to see Pauline Kael enjoying any comedies outside of Woody Allen in my mind, but I may be wrong and I should take more time to read back through her reviews.  But to my recollection Siskel and Ebert could at least somewhat evaluate a popcorn movie on popcorn merits.  

Whereas today, today's reviewers may also self style as serious but they were also raised on Star Wars so its a different dynamic.  Geek culture has also become a big part of things  

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I had a blast at this movie yesterday- loved it. Can’t deny the cheese factor was over the top though, as one would expect.  I was laughing more or less throughout the entire second half of the movie. Almost every one of Adam Driver’s scenes was comical, and it became obvious really nothing that happens in the story is final for purposes of the movie. Any negative event can easily be reversed a few minutes later through some contrivance or another. Rey declaring herself a Skywalker with no basis for it whatsoever was a perfect ending. 
 

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5 minutes ago, CletiusMaximus said:

I had a blast at this movie yesterday- loved it. Can’t deny the cheese factor was over the top though, as one would expect.  I was laughing more or less throughout the entire second half of the movie. Almost every one of Adam Driver’s scenes was comical, and it became obvious really nothing that happens in the story is final for purposes of the movie. Any negative event can easily be reversed a few minutes later through some contrivance or another. Rey declaring herself a Skywalker with no basis for it whatsoever was a perfect ending. 
 

So true.  

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23 hours ago, ConstruxBoy said:

I think this is a excellent summary of my thoughts as well. I just preferred that Johnson's vision would have been carried through RoS. 

 

Linky

I both agree with the article and the points made in it and really enjoyed all the movies. So, :shrug: .

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1 hour ago, shader said:

Huh?  The novelization of the movie, that is basically ok’d by Kennedy, the studio, and is essentially a Disney-verified explanation of the events that happened in the movie is quite a different thing than what I assume you’re referring to, the fan-fiction crap from 25 years ago that you can’t seem to let go.

It wasn’t fan fiction. They were all sanctioned and blessed by Lucas

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1 hour ago, Kal El said:

I think I remember hearing that it was supposed to be a 9 part series from the very beginning, but I could be mistaken. I was young when I heard it.

I remember hearing that too.  There is a Lucas interview somewhere where he mentions the three trilogies.  Heck, may even be apart of the box set of the original trilogies that has it....I  just dont have a vcr to play them to find out :lmao:

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50 minutes ago, CletiusMaximus said:

I had a blast at this movie yesterday- loved it. Can’t deny the cheese factor was over the top though, as one would expect.  I was laughing more or less throughout the entire second half of the movie. Almost every one of Adam Driver’s scenes was comical, and it became obvious really nothing that happens in the story is final for purposes of the movie. Any negative event can easily be reversed a few minutes later through some contrivance or another. Rey declaring herself a Skywalker with no basis for it whatsoever was a perfect ending. 
 

i agree with whoever in here posted that her eyes turning red and announcing "Palpatine" would've been a better ending.

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On 12/26/2019 at 9:47 AM, ConstruxBoy said:

I think this is a excellent summary of my thoughts as well. I just preferred that Johnson's vision would have been carried through RoS. 

 

Linky

Good read in theory.  

I felt the same conflict when I saw the movie.  The last movie really tried to  push the story forward and shed some of the ties to the original.  There is even the scene where Kylo is telling the audience through a conversation with Rey to let go of the ties to the past.

Then this movie did a 180 of that idea.  Tried to embrace all the ties to the original and play to the fan boy.  The Harrison Ford call back was such a play - not needed.

As I walked out of the movie, I said to my son "For a trilogy trying to move the story forward, they really embraced all the old mythology" - in my mind contrasting the prior movie with this one.

As a movie about a 7 ouot of 10 score - as the end of the new trilogy about a 5.

 

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55 minutes ago, ShaqAttaq said:

i agree with whoever in here posted that her eyes turning red and announcing "Palpatine" would've been a better ending.

How about not even say anything - just cut to her firing up a red lightsaber after burying Leia and Luke's? 

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12 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Good read in theory.  

I felt the same conflict when I saw the movie.  The last movie really tried to  push the story forward and shed some of the ties to the original.  There is even the scene where Kylo is telling the audience through a conversation with Rey to let go of the ties to the past.

Then this movie did a 180 of that idea.  Tried to embrace all the ties to the original and play to the fan boy.  The Harrison Ford call back was such a play - not needed.

As I walked out of the movie, I said to my son "For a trilogy trying to move the story forward, they really embraced all the old mythology" - in my mind contrasting the prior movie with this one.

As a movie about a 7 ouot of 10 score - as the end of the new trilogy about a 5.

 

Yeah.  It was fine to have the first movie just be a reset with similar plot/different characters.  Ending on that note is just bad.

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2 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

How about not even say anything - just cut to her firing up a red lightsaber after burying Leia and Luke's? 

Rey chugging a glass of blue milk after the old lady blabbed and introduced herself like James Bond ftw

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1 minute ago, Osaurus said:

Rey chugging a glass of blue milk after the old lady blabbed and introduced herself like James Bond ftw

:lol:

 

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1 hour ago, CletiusMaximus said:

I had a blast at this movie yesterday- loved it. Can’t deny the cheese factor was over the top though, as one would expect.  I was laughing more or less throughout the entire second half of the movie. Almost every one of Adam Driver’s scenes was comical, and it became obvious really nothing that happens in the story is final for purposes of the movie. Any negative event can easily be reversed a few minutes later through some contrivance or another. Rey declaring herself a Skywalker with no basis for it whatsoever was a perfect ending. 
 

I was the same way, but I blamed the $5 margaritas 

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5 hours ago, Insein said:

Man you really hate Lucas Star Wars for some reason. If it wasn't for those novels keeping the fandom alive from the late 80's into the 90's, Lucas has said he might never have decided to write the Prequels. Lucas enjoyed the EU and where the story progressed too. He made executive decisions on it. Some good, some bad. The books continued all the way up until Disney got hold of things and sold incredibly well. 

So if the novels sanctioned by Lucas and written by actual, competent writers is fanfiction, then what are the half assed, made up as we go plots of these 3 movies considered? Grade school fiction essays?

We've been through this Insein.  I don't consider the new stuff to be poorly written.  I think they have been done incredibly well.  I've also shown you way too many examples of how Lucas made it up as he went.  I love the 3 Original Star Wars movies.  To me, the prequels are cute films with major flaws.  I love Obi-Won, I love some scenes, and by and large, Revenge of the Sith was a great movie.  But Lucas made it up as he went all the time. 

The EU was a convoluted mess.  Disney cleaned it up and has gone a different way, which is GREAT for the franchise as a whole.  Due to that, we have amazing TV shows, 3 new movies, tons of books for the book nerds, cartoons, etc.  The future is very bright, and it's all because of Disney.  My advice to you is to forget the fan fiction you read 20 years ago and enjoy the new stuff. Or be grumpy, it's your choice.  Either way I honestly don't care and I don't want to pollute this thread anymore arguing with you because we clearly see things differently.

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5 hours ago, Kal El said:

I think I remember hearing that it was supposed to be a 9 part series from the very beginning, but I could be mistaken. I was young when I heard it.

There were all sorts of rumors pre-internet.  There was no master plan from the beginning.  Lucas had rough sketches and broad outlines, but he made a ton of changes, even in the original 3 movies themselves. Disney decided not to follow the writings of Timothy Zahn for their vision of the future, and by and large, it's worked out incredibly well for them, and for most fans.

 

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5 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

So you don't think there is some onus on the people doing the movies to flesh this out during the movies?  We have to read the novelization to understand WTF was going on with some of these plot points?

Whether he's dead forever isn't a plot point that will likely get resolved.  I think it's safe to assume from the movie that he's dead.  Perhaps the novelization will provide extra details.  Or perhaps they will leave it open-ended.  I have no idea.  I think a 5-year old could understand what was going on at the end, so I'm not seeing the big deal here.

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15 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

just got back.

 

Have to say, not a huge fan of this Rey trilogy, but that was a nice way to wrap it up. 

Now they need more stuff like Rogue One and Mandalorian. 

 

Mandalorian is the way of the future, for sure.

The Rey trilogy was awesome imo, but I can see why many didn't like it.  It most obviously is full of parallels to the original trilogy and was designed to make a ton of money, expand the universe, introduce new characters that MODERN kids can relate to, and to be honest, probably to repay the heavy investment Disney spent on this franchise.

I just happened to have loved it and loved the characters.  But I'm so ready to move on from this timeline and this storyline as too many fans (old and new) are too emotionally tied to it.  Moving onto new stories and new adventures will be great for Star Wars as a whole.

 

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3 minutes ago, shader said:

Mandalorian is the way of the future, for sure.

The Rey trilogy was awesome imo, but I can see why many didn't like it.  It most obviously is full of parallels to the original trilogy and was designed to make a ton of money, expand the universe, introduce new characters that MODERN kids can relate to, and to be honest, probably to repay the heavy investment Disney spent on this franchise.

I just happened to have loved it and loved the characters.  But I'm so ready to move on from this timeline and this storyline as too many fans (old and new) are too emotionally tied to it.  Moving onto new stories and new adventures will be great for Star Wars as a whole.

 

I agree with a good bit of what you are saying but I am not sure about the moving on from this timeline part.  I don't have a single thought on where the story can go.  Doesn't every story pretty much have to lead back to the force and then ultimately to the internal conflict of good and evil?  And if you stray too far from the force and the characters now, why is it even Star Wars anymore.

IMO, they should have taken the time to set up the future direction in this latest movie.  I think Abrams wimped out.

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I thought it was a fun movie, not a great one.

An uncreative (predictable), repetitive money grab... but I had fun.

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10 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I agree with a good bit of what you are saying but I am not sure about the moving on from this timeline part.  I don't have a single thought on where the story can go.  Doesn't every story pretty much have to lead back to the force and then ultimately to the internal conflict of good and evil?  And if you stray too far from the force and the characters now, why is it even Star Wars anymore.

IMO, they should have taken the time to set up the future direction in this latest movie.  I think Abrams wimped out.

That was my point.  To clarify, I don't think this story is going to go anywhere else.  I sure hope not.  I don't want a "part 10".

The idea is to create new stories, new characters, new people outside of this one storyline. Different times, different parts of the universe, etc.

I think the force will always be a part of it, but as the Mandalorian shows, it doesn't have to be a massive thing.  The idea is to bring really good directors and writers into the series and create great stories set inside this universe.

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16 minutes ago, shader said:

That was my point.  To clarify, I don't think this story is going to go anywhere else.  I sure hope not.  I don't want a "part 10".

The idea is to create new stories, new characters, new people outside of this one storyline. Different times, different parts of the universe, etc.

I think the force will always be a part of it, but as the Mandalorian shows, it doesn't have to be a massive thing.  The idea is to bring really good directors and writers into the series and create great stories set inside this universe.

I think Po could get his own movie, as he is the han solo in this series. I have no real interest in Finn or Rey anymore. 

 

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Nobody wants to hear but....

I saw A New Hope (which we all just knew as Star Wars for most of my childhood) when I was 7.  My uncle took my cousins and I. 

I grew up watchng them all, moved away,....life.  I traveled for the holidays to my hometown and took my son (a grown adult) to see the Rise of Skywalker.  

We were talking about how he and I had seen them all-the originals on video and the newer ones in the theaters during his life.  I told him about being in a theater and seeing the first and just happened to tell him how I remember sitting in the front row.  He suggested we do the same and I thought "sure, why not?"

We make our way to our seats and who is there but my Uncle- with his kids. 

We watched the movie together,with my uncle and I sitting in the same seats where it all began and when the movie wrapped up, returning to the dual suns, Jawas, Luke's house, etc, we just looked at each other and smiled.  For a second there, I could see my uncle as he looked over 40 years ago. The circle of life.  It was a very satisfying movie to me.

The story is told. It is now ended.  This is the way. 😊

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2 hours ago, matuski said:

I thought it was a fun movie, not a great one.

An uncreative (predictable), repetitive money grab... but I had fun.

Just got back from watching it. These are my thoughts about the movie  as well.

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6 hours ago, B Maverick said:

I remember hearing that too.  There is a Lucas interview somewhere where he mentions the three trilogies.  Heck, may even be apart of the box set of the original trilogies that has it....I  just dont have a vcr to play them to find out :lmao:

Yes but he combined some of the third trilogy into the ending of Jedi. 
 

He obviously always wanted something prior to Hope as the crawl was edited to say “Episode IV” 

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3 hours ago, shader said:

We've been through this Insein.  I don't consider the new stuff to be poorly written.  I think they have been done incredibly well.  I've also shown you way too many examples of how Lucas made it up as he went.  I love the 3 Original Star Wars movies.  To me, the prequels are cute films with major flaws.  I love Obi-Won, I love some scenes, and by and large, Revenge of the Sith was a great movie.  But Lucas made it up as he went all the time. 

The EU was a convoluted mess.  Disney cleaned it up and has gone a different way, which is GREAT for the franchise as a whole.  Due to that, we have amazing TV shows, 3 new movies, tons of books for the book nerds, cartoons, etc.  The future is very bright, and it's all because of Disney.  My advice to you is to forget the fan fiction you read 20 years ago and enjoy the new stuff. Or be grumpy, it's your choice.  Either way I honestly don't care and I don't want to pollute this thread anymore arguing with you because we clearly see things differently.

I mean you can like the new movies and have fun with them, but there is no way you can consider them written well. They are literally using TLJ as an example of bad screenwriting at Columbia for future film makers. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/boundingintocomics.com/2019/12/03/bionic-woman-producer-kamran-pasha-uses-star-wars-the-last-jedi-to-teach-about-bad-screenwriting/amp/

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Just got back. If this page is any indication of the thread..... to each his own. We all have different tastes.

I loved it. 

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1 hour ago, Insein said:

I mean you can like the new movies and have fun with them, but there is no way you can consider them written well. They are literally using TLJ as an example of bad screenwriting at Columbia for future film makers. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/boundingintocomics.com/2019/12/03/bionic-woman-producer-kamran-pasha-uses-star-wars-the-last-jedi-to-teach-about-bad-screenwriting/amp/

“The people who screwed up Luke Skywalker were motivated by personal pathologies ranging from literal Daddy issues to an ideological need to humiliate “straight white men.” None of it came from a desire for good storytelling or commercial success.”


— definitely a person I wouldn’t look to be quoting to make my point 

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4 hours ago, shader said:

We've been through this Insein.  I don't consider the new stuff to be poorly written.  I think they have been done incredibly well.  I've also shown you way too many examples of how Lucas made it up as he went.  I love the 3 Original Star Wars movies.  To me, the prequels are cute films with major flaws.  I love Obi-Won, I love some scenes, and by and large, Revenge of the Sith was a great movie.  But Lucas made it up as he went all the time. 

The EU was a convoluted mess.  Disney cleaned it up and has gone a different way, which is GREAT for the franchise as a whole.  Due to that, we have amazing TV shows, 3 new movies, tons of books for the book nerds, cartoons, etc.  The future is very bright, and it's all because of Disney.  My advice to you is to forget the fan fiction you read 20 years ago and enjoy the new stuff. Or be grumpy, it's your choice.  Either way I honestly don't care and I don't want to pollute this thread anymore arguing with you because we clearly see things differently.

You didn't answer my question before: do you have different criteria for movies vs. books?  What would bad writing for a movie look like for you? 

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5

6

R1

4

9

7

Solo

3

8

2

1

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39 minutes ago, Capella said:

“The people who screwed up Luke Skywalker were motivated by personal pathologies ranging from literal Daddy issues to an ideological need to humiliate “straight white men.” None of it came from a desire for good storytelling or commercial success.”


— definitely a person I wouldn’t look to be quoting to make my point 

Should also be noted that this isn't some alt right straight white male. This is a very left leaning, director that has analyzed this from a film making perspective on what not to do if you wish to make a successful movie.

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29 minutes ago, Insein said:

Should also be noted that this isn't some alt right straight white male. This is a very left leaning, director that has analyzed this from a film making perspective on what not to do if you wish to make a successful movie.

He sure doesn’t sound like it from that quote but I’ll take yer word for it. 

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17 minutes ago, Capella said:

He sure doesn’t sound like it from that quote but I’ll take yer word for it. 

I promise you he's not an alt-right, straight white male.

Kamran Pasha

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1 minute ago, KarmaPolice said:

Was does political affiliation have to do with ability to dissect screenwriting? 

These days it needs to be stated or else it's used as a straw man to disregard someone's argument. Shouldn't be that way but welcome to 2019.

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1 minute ago, Insein said:

These days it needs to be stated or else it's used as a straw man to disregard someone's argument. Shouldn't be that way but welcome to 2019.

Nope. He’s the one who mentioned daddy issues and the made-up need for the writers of Jedi to humiliate straight white men. Once you start throwing that crap out there it’s fair game to question where he’s approaching this from. 

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Just got back from it. I'm sure the diehards found a way to hate it.

I thought it was great. Super entertaining. Ray is smoking hot and kicking ###. Really fun movie (though it is Star Wars - so a level of cheese is expected).

 

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To the Star Wars diehards - are there going to be more movies in the original storyline? Or will they just branch off and do other stories?

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