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Maurile Tremblay

foolishness on the left

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17 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I’ve already got a buddy trying to convince me that the 2019 Washington Nationals are one of the best teams in baseball history. 

Well that's because they are ;)

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2 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

That one can get muddy in a hurry. 

With honest intentions, it's obviously fine. But it's not difficult to see how it could get off track for someone who wants to be offensive and hide it behind the "I was just quoting" :shrug: card. For instance, here on the forum, we don't allow it. 

On stuff like the N word, that's pretty easy as you can just say the "N-Word" and I don't think people would be offended. But on a phrase or longer quote AND used with less than noble intent, it could get muddy. 

So I guess I'm not sure where that falls. 

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19 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

That one can get muddy in a hurry. 

With honest intentions, it's obviously fine. But it's not difficult to see how it could get off track for someone who wants to be offensive and hide it behind the "I was just quoting" :shrug: card. For instance, here on the forum, we don't allow it. 

On stuff like the N word, that's pretty easy as you can just say the "N-Word" and I don't think people would be offended. But on a phrase or longer quote AND used with less than noble intent, it could get muddy. 

So I guess I'm not sure where that falls. 

That's why I think the story I referenced is a good "clean" example.  This is not a black person using the N-word, where you get into in-group vs. out-group issues.  The word isn't being directed at anybody as a slur, so there are no "hate speech" issues.  The person in the story is a senior faculty member at a serious university, not a right-wing troll.  She's referencing the word in an academic context to graduate students, not middle-schoolers.

If saying the N-word out loud in that context causes somebody to take offense, the only reasonable response IMO is "get over it."  Which, to the faculty member's credit, is basically what her response was, and kudos to her for sticking to it.

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14 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

That's why I think the story I referenced is a good "clean" example.  This is not a black person using the N-word, where you get into in-group vs. out-group issues.  The word isn't being directed at anybody as a slur, so there are no "hate speech" issues.  The person in the story is a senior faculty member at a serious university, not a right-wing troll.  She's referencing the word in an academic context to graduate students, not middle-schoolers.

If saying the N-word out loud in that context causes somebody to take offense, the only reasonable response IMO is "get over it."  Which, to the faculty member's credit, is basically what her response was, and kudos to her for sticking to it.

Correct. that's why I said it can get muddy.

This person as you described clearly seems fine. 

Moving from the individual case to the policy for everyone is where it gets troublesome sometimes. 

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8 hours ago, rockaction said:

That assumes a huge proposition: that it was rebellion and not the absurdity and almost tyrannical impulse of both the normative spirit of the laws and the positive result that flowed therefrom. Compliance, of course, is the first thing to go when you try to rewrite truth, as is so often the case with these absurdist policies, but that doesn't mean that non-compliance came from anything less than substantive diseent.

IOW, it wasn't stamping your foot and yelling "I don't care!" It was genuinely looking at the world and radically disagreeing with what was being posited. 

I must have misread your post.  Liberal colleges don't make laws, and you indicated that proximity to them was why you are conservative.  

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3 hours ago, Max Power said:

They just had a court ruling about allowing a 7 year old to transition even though his dad protested. 

The ruling is about who gets to make medical decisions for a 7 year old where the divorced parents disagree.  The mother supports transition and the father doesn't.  They're divorced and the mother is the custodial parent.  The father is seeking sole custody to make sure his child who has been claiming to be a girl since the age of three doesn't transition, and a Texas jury ruled against him.

The mother is a pediatrician and has requested a court ordered evaluation for gender dysphoria.  Which seems like the right way to go.

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3 hours ago, rockaction said:

This is where the real issue comes down and the next fight is, isn't it? The bathrooms were taken, now it's coming for gender fluidity and children.

You should look into the case and the ruling before deciding whether it supports your position.

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2 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:

Here's one that was in our local news a few years back. 

And this is a question. I'm not saying it fits in MT's category.

What do people think of asking (and yes, that's different from demanding) the use of gender neutral pronouns like "ze" and "hir" and "xem"?

Story from UT a few years ago. https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/09/08/u-tennessee-withdraws-guide-pronouns-preferred-some-transgender-people

Asking?  Ask for whatever you want. 

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3 hours ago, timschochet said:

I’ve already got a buddy trying to convince me that the 2019 Washington Nationals are one of the best teams in baseball history. 

I mean....he's not wrong.  They're going to sweep the Astros, who were huge favorites.  

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36 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

The ruling is about who gets to make medical decisions for a 7 year old where the divorced parents disagree.  The mother supports transition and the father doesn't.  They're divorced and the mother is the custodial parent.  The father is seeking sole custody to make sure his child who has been claiming to be a girl since the age of three doesn't transition, and a Texas jury ruled against him.

The mother is a pediatrician and has requested a court ordered evaluation for gender dysphoria.  Which seems like the right way to go.

Interesting....Max’s description of the case seemed to be missing some details

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4 minutes ago, joffer said:

Interesting....Max’s description of the case seemed to be missing some details

Isn’t this always the case with these things? Not saying about Max just in general.

Usually more complicated than headlines make something out to be. 

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2 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:

Here's one that was in our local news a few years back. 

And this is a question. I'm not saying it fits in MT's category.

What do people think of asking (and yes, that's different from demanding) the use of gender neutral pronouns like "ze" and "hir" and "xem"?

Story from UT a few years ago. https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/09/08/u-tennessee-withdraws-guide-pronouns-preferred-some-transgender-people

I'm of mixed feelings on this.

On the one hand, my gut tells me that creating new words out of whole cloth is kind of bizarre on its face, especially when you're asking people to rewrite language on the fly before it even becomes part of the common vernacular. Trans advocates probably do more harm than good in suggesting that people these pronouns before they enter the public consciousness in a significant way.

On the other hand, our current pronoun structure is too limited to capture all of the different variations that exist in the world and could use some updating if we're going to be efficient and specific with language. The fact that the conservative folks in The Family Action Council of Tennessee used the word "neuter" to counter the style guide is pretty telling on it's face in terms of how they feel about those that don't conform to their gender standards. That's far more problematic IMO.

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13 minutes ago, General Malaise said:

I mean....he's not wrong.  They're going to sweep the Astros, who were huge favorites.  

But that just makes them the 69 Mets. It would make them one of the most remarkable teams of all time, even one of the most memorable teams of all time. It certainly wouldn’t make them one of the best teams of all time. 

And anyhow right now it’s only 2-0. 

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24 minutes ago, General Malaise said:

I mean....he's not wrong.  They're going to sweep the Astros, who were huge favorites.  

They weren't even first place in their own division.

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1 minute ago, Henry Ford said:

They weren't even first place in their own division.

I bet the Dodgers, Cardinals and now Astros would agree that Washington is the best. 

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3 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:

Here's one that was in our local news a few years back. 

And this is a question. I'm not saying it fits in MT's category.

What do people think of asking (and yes, that's different from demanding) the use of gender neutral pronouns like "ze" and "hir" and "xem"?

Story from UT a few years ago. https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/09/08/u-tennessee-withdraws-guide-pronouns-preferred-some-transgender-people

Language evolves.   It seems appropriate to recognize gender neutral pronouns as society evolves different attitudes toward non-binary sexuality.   

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38 minutes ago, General Malaise said:

I bet the Dodgers, Cardinals and now Astros would agree that Washington is the best. 

Don't forget the Brewers.

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1 hour ago, Henry Ford said:

Asking?  Ask for whatever you want. 

Can I borrow your car?

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1 hour ago, General Malaise said:

I mean....he's not wrong.  They're going to sweep the Astros, who were huge favorites.  

a pox on you

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1 hour ago, Henry Ford said:

They weren't even first place in their own division.

If you start playing your best baseball all in September and can get in you can win the WS

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5 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:

Here's one that was in our local news a few years back. 

And this is a question. I'm not saying it fits in MT's category.

What do people think of asking (and yes, that's different from demanding) the use of gender neutral pronouns like "ze" and "hir" and "xem"?

Story from UT a few years ago. https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/09/08/u-tennessee-withdraws-guide-pronouns-preferred-some-transgender-people

Speaking of gender pronouns ... this essay is, to me, one of the most effective examples of persuasive writing I've come across. No matter where you start out, I think it's really hard to follow the author's argument all the way through and end up not thinking that using whatever pronouns people prefer is worth the trouble.

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2019/10/23/texas-jury-rules-against-divorced-dad-trying-to-stop-7-year-old-sons-gender-transition/amp/

Here was the article I was referring to. There is a lot to digest. 

Also a lot from heavy.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/heavy.com/news/2019/10/anne-georgulas/amp/

For the record. I think 7 is too young for hormone therapy. I can side with the father easily here. 

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3 hours ago, General Malaise said:

I bet the Dodgers, Cardinals and now Astros would agree that Washington is the best. 

They’re hot, I’m pulling for them, they’re far from the best. Over an extended period they wouldn’t hold up against the Astros or Dodgers, as the regular season results show, even though I hope they win both series. Hot teams beat better teams all the time in the playoffs. Their bullpen is a hot mess. Think about Fernando Rodney making a World Series appearance. Nobody even wanted him on their AAA roster just a couple months ago. His metrics haven’t improved. 

Edited by Shula-holic

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3 hours ago, General Malaise said:

I bet the Dodgers, Cardinals and now Astros would agree that Washington is the best. 

Of all time?

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6 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

I must have misread your post.  Liberal colleges don't make laws, and you indicated that proximity to them was why you are conservative.  

I guess I should have been more exacting of myself in my own language. To me, local laws (or for minors, local school expectations) and institutions reflect and are never far behind the norms of the area in question. And, yes, I did indicate that growing up in a new left hotbed shaped my feelings about its excesses because I got to see first-hand how these laws, institutional groundings, and norms affected the daily lives of average people. No doubt.

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6 minutes ago, Punxsutawney Phil said:

Even though my politics likely differ to a significant degree than the representative, Iron Crosses are really familiar warfare symbols worn by edgy high schoolers everywhere. I think Motorhead developed a lot of Iron Cross imagery. Typical metalhead stuff, really. Not really that Neo-Nazi, at least as far as I was led to believe growing up. It's not rocking a swastika.

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8 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Even though my politics likely differ to a significant degree than the representative, Iron Crosses are really familiar warfare symbols worn by edgy high schoolers everywhere. I think Motorhead developed a lot of Iron Cross imagery. Typical metalhead stuff, really. Not really that Neo-Nazi, at least as far as I was led to believe growing up. It's not rocking a swastika.

Independent

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2 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Even though my politics likely differ to a significant degree than the representative, Iron Crosses are really familiar warfare symbols worn by edgy high schoolers everywhere. I think Motorhead developed a lot of Iron Cross imagery. Typical metalhead stuff, really. Not really that Neo-Nazi, at least as far as I was led to believe growing up. It's not rocking a swastika.

Has she offered a reason for it? 

In today's social media age, anything loosely tied to Nazis often gets associated with it/them quickly. The iron cross has a direct association. How are those same people going to react to this?

 

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12 minutes ago, jonrolly said:

I don’t begrudge people who don’t want to serve ICE facilities these days. I also don’t begrudge people who sell food there.  I do have a bit of an issue with people who take their money and then talk smack about them. 

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57 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Even though my politics likely differ to a significant degree than the representative, Iron Crosses are really familiar warfare symbols worn by edgy high schoolers everywhere. I think Motorhead developed a lot of Iron Cross imagery. Typical metalhead stuff, really. Not really that Neo-Nazi, at least as far as I was led to believe growing up. It's not rocking a swastika.

Given the placement she probably just wants to sleep with Triple H. 

 

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1 minute ago, Henry Ford said:

Given the placement she probably just wants to sleep with Triple H.

I had to look that up. Pro wrestling and I parted ways long, long ago; I'm culturally illiterate when it comes to it. The last thing I think I knew was the Steve Austin "SUCK IT!" thing, and only because I caught it at a friend's house. 

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1 hour ago, Punxsutawney Phil said:

I’m a touch more concerned with her pulling a young campaign staffer into a threesome with her husband than the tattoo. 

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1 minute ago, rockaction said:

I had to look that up. Pro wrestling and I parted ways long, long ago; I'm culturally illiterate when it comes to it. The last thing I think I knew was the Steve Austin "SUCK IT!" thing, and only because I caught it at a friend's house. 

In Louisiana, you would have nothing to talk to your egregiously racist neighbor about. 

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16 hours ago, rockaction said:

I guess I should have been more exacting of myself in my own language. To me, local laws (or for minors, local school expectations) and institutions reflect and are never far behind the norms of the area in question. And, yes, I did indicate that growing up in a new left hotbed shaped my feelings about its excesses because I got to see first-hand how these laws, institutional groundings, and norms affected the daily lives of average people. No doubt.

Judging oppressive post-modern academic puritanism without knowing the pocket of cisdainful hissifitness that is Smith, Amherst, Mount Holyoke, Hampshire, Williams etc is the equivalent of judging cajun food without ever having been to the bayou. I'm w RA on this'n.

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2 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

Judging oppressive post-modern academic puritanism without knowing the pocket of cisdainful hissifitness that is Smith, Amherst, Mount Holyoke, Hampshire, Williams etc is the equivalent of judging cajun food without ever having been to the bayou. I'm w RA on this'n.

Thank you, man. That's exactly the area of the country I'm talking about. Born and raised in Herland. 

eta* IIRC, Henry James expatriated himself over his own reaction to the greater Boston area (which can't hold a candle to the part of Mass and CT we speak of) specifically because of the norms and laws I mention, distinctly mulled over and passed from a feminist angle.

Edited by rockaction
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4 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Thank you, man. That's exactly the area of the country I'm talking about. Born and raised in Herland. 

Hey, i was around for the first Hampshire modules and was in CPUSA when they began trying to rename everything at the same time. The roots of post-modernism are as ingrained in this noggin as the rules of baseball.

Edited by wikkidpissah
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5 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

Hey, i was around for the first Hampshire modules and was in CPUSA when they were first renaming everything at the same time. The roots of post-modernism are as ingrained as the rules of baseball.

I just ruefully chuckled and thought of how correct that was. And further South than that, we have the area that was industry-minded on top of it and gave you Katharine Hepburn in functional dress pants as a glamourous thing. 

Ooh yeah! That's what we gave the world of glamour, even.

Pants.

For women. 

Edited by rockaction

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14 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Thank you, man. That's exactly the area of the country I'm talking about. Born and raised in Herland. 

eta* IIRC, Henry James expatriated himself over his own reaction to the greater Boston area (which can't hold a candle to the part of Mass and CT we speak of) specifically because of the norms and laws I mention, distinctly mulled over and passed from a feminist angle.

I respect the #### out of most of the women whom my part of the world put into that academic crucible during my time and value the work they did & do. It was more than necessary. But the jacobin burgoo cooks all things to the same temperature and the bubbling, bubbling, toil & troubling never seems to end. Come by some time and i'll mix you a nice metaphor....

Edited by wikkidpissah
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6 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

I respect the #### out of most of the women whom my part of the world put into that academic crucible during my time and value the work they did & do. It was more than necessary. But the jacobin burgoo cooks all things to the same temperature and the bubbling, bubbling, toil & troubling never seems to end. Come by some time and i'll mix you a nice metaphor....

Nothing mixed about it. I think I know exactly what you're saying. Young male, born way after, the pot was still boiling and to be fussed over, and not in a doted-on way.

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15 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

I don’t begrudge people who don’t want to serve ICE facilities these days. I also don’t begrudge people who sell food there.  I do have a bit of an issue with people who take their money and then talk smack about them. 

I'm out of Buffalo News free articles for the month, so I am not entirely sure what the article says, but Lloyd donated all proceeds from the lunch to Justice for Migrant Families WNY, a local non-profit.

For those who don't know, this is a prominent food-truck-operation-turned-small-brick-and-mortar-local-chain facing a bunch of backlash for serving a lunch at a nearby detention center, which apparently holds ICE detainees.  It's unclear whether they knew this or not when they made the decision to serve the lunch. They are a pretty small operation (4 food trucks, 2 restaurants, and an ice cream shop, I think, with a small catering division).  They were pretty harshly criticized and felt the need to issue a formal apology.  https://twitter.com/whereslloyd/status/1187390400954126336

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Cue Maurile and Tobias's arguments about economic boycotts and market pressure and you've got that taco trucks in a neat nutshell.

See, that's why this board shouldn't be killed. I even know the names of the people taking the pro- and con- positions!

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