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Saving the PSF - How can we, as a community, make this place better

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Post a rule suggestion:

 

Use the ignore feature

 

I don't have anyone on ignore but I have also never reported anyone. If you find yourself reporting someone, maybe think about putting them on ignore instead. Do this for the sake of the board. Many of us don't want this board to go away so maybe do it for everyone else.

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Post a rule suggestion:

 

Before you hit "Send Reply" think if you would say the same thing to that person if you were face to face.

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2 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:

Thanks for the posts here. There's been some good stuff.

I'm committed this weekend but will look more next week. Doing something fun - I'm in Nashville officiating a friend's wedding tomorrow. I little nervous though. 

Still pretty bummed about PSF but I appreciate those that have made an effort to talk about it. 

Good luck. Just don't accidentally say "I may kiss the bride" and you'll be good.

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1 hour ago, Gopher State said:

Well the PSF represents football guys, the content in the PSF is basically approved/monitored by FBG’S, if you owned FBG’S would you approve of the comments being made in the PSF?  I mean FBG’S is a site about football, not snarky political comments, how  much money is made on the PSF vs football?   I don’t think their making money on the PSF, but maybe charging a fee to post on the PSF would be an option.  Would it make sence to charge for posting on the PSF, due to the extra costs to monitor and control it?

If I owned a website and had off topic message boards I wouldn't worry about it being my brand. I think most people on the innernets know you can't possibly control what others post and aren't responsible for their content. I think this place is pretty tame compared to alot of what is out there. Just venture into comments on news stories for example. This place is simply not that bad. Could it be better? Sure, we could all make an effort to reign it in a bit.

Ultimately it's Joe's decision. I hope he lets us keep this sandbox in the end. I also hope he stops stressing about it because he doesn't need to. Just my opinion. Thanks for reading.

Edited by cap'n grunge
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1 hour ago, Ghost Rider said:

Maybe I am out of the loop, but how exactly do you officiate a wedding?  

 

If the best man makes a pass at the bride you throw a flag and call unsportsmanlike conduct.

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1 hour ago, jamny said:

I think most opinions have been noted and some fixes have been mentioned. I think we need to form a list of rules and I hope that Joe will not make any decision on the future of the PSF until December 31st. If we haven't shown marked improvement by then, well...do what you will.

Post a rule suggestion:

 

Monitor your own.  - If someone on "your side" of the argument posts something that crosses the line and is not helping the discussion, point it out to them. Being a "board cop" is more effective if it is coming from someone of the same opinion.

I like this, but Maurile has specifically said we shouldn’t, which I understand.

Edited by krista4

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1 hour ago, jamny said:

Post a rule suggestion:

 

Use the ignore feature

 

I don't have anyone on ignore but I have also never reported anyone. If you find yourself reporting someone, maybe think about putting them on ignore instead. Do this for the sake of the board. Many of us don't want this board to go away so maybe do it for everyone else.

 

1 hour ago, jamny said:

Post a rule suggestion:

 

Before you hit "Send Reply" think if you would say the same thing to that person if you were face to face.

Both terrific.

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3 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:

Thanks for the posts here. There's been some good stuff.

I'm committed this weekend but will look more next week. Doing something fun - I'm in Nashville officiating a friend's wedding tomorrow. I little nervous though. 

Still pretty bummed about PSF but I appreciate those that have made an effort to talk about it. 

I am still watching Ken Burns Country Music. I have to go to Nashville now. I need to see the Grand Ole Oprey. 

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7 hours ago, jamny said:

Post a rule suggestion:

 

Before you hit "Send Reply" think if you would say the same thing to that person if you were face to face.

:goodposting:

This is the best one. If posters stuck to this it would be a much better place but being able to hide behind a keyboard and alias is the problem. 

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6 hours ago, krista4 said:

I like this, but Maurile has specifically said we shouldn’t, which I understand.

Yep - I spent an hour trying to do that yesterday morning - replying to people and ask them to be cool and even sent several PMs.  I get where @Maurile Tremblay is coming from with asking us not to do that if the thread topic is about something else because the “board cop” stuff was already a problem but hopefully if we all follow rules like the ones Jamny and others have posted we can keep improving things.  I do fear there’s some folks that don’t care if the PSF goes away and will intentionally cause problems.  IMO, that shouldn’t be allowed and longer TOs or bans need to happen.  If a mod asks me to stop arguing or drop it and I whine or continue make me sit out 3 months or more.

Edited by AAABatteries
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As others have mentioned, the telling point about this forum is Joe’s comment about his Republican friends saying they wouldn’t post here due to how they would be treated. That says it all.

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22 hours ago, jon_mx said:

For instance, when BLM were promoting anti-police rhetoric and cops were getting gunned down, there was a segment from the left including Obama who expressed understanding of their frustration with the police.  Or when Islamic terrorist plan attacks, there is discussion about how terrible we have been in the middle east.   

I agree with you on this one.  That was not good at all.

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10 hours ago, jamny said:

Post a rule suggestion:

 

Before you hit "Send Reply" think if you would say the same thing to that person if you were face to face.

If that was the case the PSF would cease to exist.  Keyboard courage is much different than actual face to face interactions.

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8 hours ago, timschochet said:

I am still watching Ken Burns Country Music. I have to go to Nashville now. I need to see the Grand Ole Oprey. 

At your age Tim you really should go see the things you've always wanted to see.  :)

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2 minutes ago, Summer Wheat said:

If that was the case the PSF would cease to exist.  Keyboard courage is much different than actual face to face interactions.

I think there are a lot of people in this forum who only post what they would actually say to people face to face.  The squeaky wheels, probably not, but probably most posters in this forum. 

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1 minute ago, Henry Ford said:

I think there are a lot of people in this forum who only post what they would actually say to people face to face.  The squeaky wheels, probably not, but probably most posters in this forum. 

Man and we just kind of agreed in another thread......strongly disagree with this. 😁

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1 minute ago, GoBirds said:

Man and we just kind of agreed in another thread......strongly disagree with this. 😁

People like krista4, IvanKaramazov, Yankee23Fan, CletiusMaximus, and a whole host of other  people would say everything they’ve said in here in person, I have no doubt. 

Edited by Henry Ford
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4 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

I think there are a lot of people in this forum who only post what they would actually say to people face to face.  The squeaky wheels, probably not, but probably most posters in this forum. 

Somehow I don't think most posters in this forum would call or insinuate someone is a racist,  homophobe, or xenophobe to their face. It seems to be the go to for a lot of posters to Trump supporters. 

Edited by JohnnyU
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2 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

People like krista4, IvanKaramazov, Yankee23Fan, CletiusMaximus, and a whole host of other  people would say everything they’ve said in here in person, I have no doubt. 

Don’t disagree with you on those, just the mob of others. 

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2 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

I think there are a lot of people in this forum who only post what they would actually say to people face to face.  The squeaky wheels, probably not, but probably most posters in this forum. 

Not only do I post what I would actually say face-to-face, but what I post here is mild compared  to what I would really say in person (because I would be given an instant time out and probably a permaban if I articulated what would be my actual rhetoric in this forum). 

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21 hours ago, cap'n grunge said:

Quite frankly, Trump is to blame. His over the top fear and hate mongering, attack of the truth and facts, attack of the media who try hold him accountable, and just overall narcissist behavior is so far out of bounds it's unconscionable. When someone supports him it's hard to take them seriously. It just doesn't make sense.

I am no fan of Trump, but I don't think he can be blamed for what was jon_mx was talking about.  That has been going on long before Trump was elected, and it baffles me as well.  Bill Maher even made the point a while back that every time there is a terrorist attack, the knee jerk reaction of some liberals is "don't be mean to muslims"... but if a christian commits a terrorist attack, they get no defense at all from the same liberals.  It's bizarre in the sense that more and more liberals nowadays are atheists/agnostics and seem to have little to no regard for religion, and enjoy mocking christians for their beliefs, but would never do the same to muslims.  It's kind of weird.  

And to clarify, I am not saying being mean to muslims is okay; it's not.  It's the inconsistency that bugs me.  And many on the right are just as guilty of being inconsistent (flip the above and that is how some conservatives talk), so I am not suggesting "liberals = bad, conservatives = good."  The inconsistency and hypocrisy of both is maddening. 

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9 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

I think there are a lot of people in this forum who only post what they would actually say to people face to face.  The squeaky wheels, probably not, but probably most posters in this forum. 

Agree with you on many things but totally disagree on this one.

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14 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

At your age Tim you really should go see the things you've always wanted to see.  :)

Well you’re right about that. But thanks for the reminder. 😞 

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12 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

People like krista4, IvanKaramazov, Yankee23Fan, CletiusMaximus, and a whole host of other  people would say everything they’ve said in here in person, I have no doubt. 

Of course you will have some that will. I would venture to say that the most aggressive posters here in terms of being snarky, smart assed, are not that way at all in day to life. I have stated a number of times that during the week I come across a wide variety of people and nobody acts or talks the way they do in the PSF. I mean nobody.

Edited by Summer Wheat

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3 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Well you’re right about that. But thanks for the reminder. 😞 

Yeah, that was my pot calling the kettle black moment before I've had my Sunday coffee.

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10 minutes ago, Summer Wheat said:

Of course you will have some that will. I would venture to say that the most aggressive posters here in terms of being snarky, smart assed, are not that way at all in day to life. I have stated a number of times that during the week I come across a wide variety of people and nobody acts or talks the way they do in the PSF. I mean nobody.

Im pretty snarky and a smart ### all the time.

Which leads me to a question...when did being snarky become the worst things?  I don’t see snark as some major issue but it gets complained about all then time.

Id much rather deal with someone being a bit snarky that someone not discussing something in good faith at all.

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Just now, sho nuff said:

Im pretty snarky and a smart ### all the time.

Which leads me to a question...when did being snarky become the worst things?  I don’t see snark as some major issue but it gets complained about all then time.

Id much rather deal with someone being a bit snarky that someone not discussing something in good faith at all.

Because it’s disrespectful. Take the high road and be the better person. People can discuss things without being snarky. It is called having class and respecting the other person and their opinions. 

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18 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

I am no fan of Trump, but I don't think he can be blamed for what was jon_mx was talking about.  That has been going on long before Trump was elected, and it baffles me as well.  Bill Maher even made the point a while back that every time there is a terrorist attack, the knee jerk reaction of some liberals is "don't be mean to muslims"... but if a christian commits a terrorist attack, they get no defense at all from the same liberals.  It's bizarre in the sense that more and more liberals nowadays are atheists/agnostics and seem to have little to no regard for religion, and enjoy mocking christians for their beliefs, but would never do the same to muslims.  It's kind of weird.  

And to clarify, I am not saying being mean to muslims is okay; it's not.  It's the inconsistency that bugs me.  And many on the right are just as guilty of being inconsistent (flip the above and that is how some conservatives talk), so I am not suggesting "liberals = bad, conservatives = good."  The inconsistency and hypocrisy of both is maddening. 

I get what you're saying and I agree with it but I believe this is because when there is a terrorist attack involving Muslims, people use it as validation to blame Muslims in general.  you get things like POTUS wanting to ban muslims, you have muslims around the country being harassed and told to 'go back where you came from'.  When a white Christian male is involved in a terror act, I have never seen anyone calling for a ban on Christians or harassing Christians around the country.  If someone were to point that out, its not because they are sympathetic to terrorists, its that there sympathetic to innocent people (in this case Muslims) being villifed for what a couple nuts who happened to share a religion with them did.  Now sure, I'm sure you could find a couple people on Twitter complaining about Christians when a white Christian male shoots a bunch of people, but its nowhere near as wide spread and certainly no POTUS has ever suggested a ban because of their religion

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3 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Im pretty snarky and a smart ### all the time.

Which leads me to a question...when did being snarky become the worst things?  I don’t see snark as some major issue but it gets complained about all then time.

Id much rather deal with someone being a bit snarky that someone not discussing something in good faith at all.

Again it is not me.  I am going by what Joe stated that he is sick and tired of the constant snarky responses to people.  If it was up to me have at it..but it is obvious Joe wants no part of that anymore.

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1 minute ago, JohnnyU said:

Why?

Good genes?  Thats like asking why is the sky blue.  People have different personalities...usually its done in jest and humorous.

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Just now, sho nuff said:

Good genes?  Thats like asking why is the sky blue.  People have different personalities...usually its done in jest and humorous.

Never met anyone that compared being snarky and a smart *** as being a result of good genes.  Most consider it a character flaw.

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6 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Im pretty snarky and a smart ### all the time.

Which leads me to a question...when did being snarky become the worst things?  I don’t see snark as some major issue but it gets complained about all then time.

Id much rather deal with someone being a bit snarky that someone not discussing something in good faith at all.

Because it's disrespectful and limits good conversation.  Just sit a few out instead of mucking up every thread with the same stuff.  

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1 minute ago, jomar said:

I get what you're saying and I agree with it but I believe this is because when there is a terrorist attack involving Muslims, people use it as validation to blame Muslims in general.  you get things like POTUS wanting to ban muslims, you have muslims around the country being harassed and told to 'go back where you came from'.  When a white Christian male is involved in a terror act, I have never seen anyone calling for a ban on Christians or harassing Christians around the country.  If someone were to point that out, its not because they are sympathetic to terrorists, its that there sympathetic to innocent people (in this case Muslims) being villifed for what a couple nuts who happened to share a religion with them did.  Now sure, I'm sure you could find a couple people on Twitter complaining about Christians when a white Christian male shoots a bunch of people, but its nowhere near as wide spread and certainly no POTUS has ever suggested a ban because of their religion

Okay, but as I stated earlier, this mentality pre-dates the Trump presidency by quite a few years, so I don't think it's as simple as "the current POTUS is the reason for it" (although I would certainly agree that he has made it much worse). 

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1 minute ago, Summer Wheat said:

Again it is not me.  I am going by what Joe stated that he is sick and tired of the constant snarky responses to people.  If it was up to me have at it..but it is obvious Joe wants no part of that anymore.

Oh I agree its what is being requested and doing what I can to keep it all about the issues and avoiding posters I just don’t get along with.

This just seems recent in the last few years where the complaint by many is about a snarky response.  Like people  just getting triggered  by that.  It seems an odd complaint to me given the rash of other issues of misinformation and dishonesty that goes on.

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Just now, JohnnyU said:

Never met anyone that compared being snarky and a smart *** as being a result of good genes.  Most consider it a character flaw.

See...that part was a joke.

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Just now, JohnnyU said:

Never met anyone that compared being snarky and a smart *** as being a result of good genes.  Most consider it a character flaw.

:goodposting: Exactly 

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6 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Im pretty snarky and a smart ### all the time.

Doesn’t work all the time . I’m a wise ### when it’s in the right situation when it’s appropriate 

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Just now, HellToupee said:

Doesn’t work all the time . I’m a wise ### when it’s in the right situation when it’s appropriate 

True...I agree there are times and places for it.

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3 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

Because it's disrespectful and limits good conversation.  Just sit a few out instead of mucking up every thread with the same stuff.  

:goodposting:

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Just now, sho nuff said:

True...I agree there are times and places for it.

In most posts in this forum is the right place for it?

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On 10/25/2019 at 1:00 PM, Maurile Tremblay said:

Let's top all of that stuff. In other words, please don't engage in bad behavior, and also, please don't play board cop when you see others engaging in bad behavior. Report it if it's egregious. Whether you report it or not, don't respond to it. Don't call it out. That's what causes all the pointless bickering. Just ignore it and move on. If you can't ignore it by exercising self-restraint, then ignore it by using Invision's ignore feature. I think moderators should start giving generous suspensions both to the people who troll and to the people who accuse others of trolling; to the people who get personal and to those who complain about it; to the people who post nothing but a laughing emoji and to the people who call it out.

I think I agree with this but I don't understand how this would work in practice.  For example, let's say someone plays board cop and accuses someone of being a troll in a thread.  How would moderators know unless they just happen to stumble across that page?  I assume you wouldn't call that behavior "egregious" and expect posters to report it.  

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6 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Never met anyone that compared being snarky and a smart *** as being a result of good genes.  Most consider it a character flaw.

Being a smart ### has nothing to do with genetics.  It takes years and years of practice.

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2 minutes ago, OrtonToOlsen said:

Being a smart ### has nothing to do with genetics.  It takes years and years of practice.

He said good genes, but regardless, it is a character flaw if used most of the time, not just in the right humorous moment.

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6 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

Okay, but as I stated earlier, this mentality pre-dates the Trump presidency by quite a few years, so I don't think it's as simple as "the current POTUS is the reason for it" (although I would certainly agree that he has made it much worse). 

I imagine it goes back to at least 9/11.  the fact that it pre-dates Trump has no bearing on my point, which is people stand up for Muslims after a terror attack because those Muslims had nothing to do with it and certainly don't condone it in any way.  there is no double standard.  Christians don't need anyone to stand up for them after a terrorist attack like Muslims do, because virtually no one is assigning blame to all Christians like happens to Muslims

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19 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

I think I agree with this but I don't understand how this would work in practice.  For example, let's say someone plays board cop and accuses someone of being a troll in a thread.  How would moderators know unless they just happen to stumble across that page?  I assume you wouldn't call that behavior "egregious" and expect posters to report it.  

Say we have a 10% chance of seeing it. A 10% chance of being suspended for a week should be a decent disincentive.

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10 hours ago, krista4 said:

I like this, but Maurile has specifically said we shouldn’t, which I understand.

I have maurile on ignore so i missed this. What were his reasons? 

 

 

 

 

I dont actually have maurile on ignore, that would be the worst use of the ignore feature ever. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

Say we have a 10% chance of seeing it. A 10% chance of being suspended for a week should be a decent disincentive.

Good point.  And just the fact that it's an "official" rule should help.  

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37 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

In most posts in this forum is the right place for it?

Id disagree with most.  But yes an informal online forum isn’t exactly a bad place for such things.

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