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wgoldsph

Untenable owner

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I don't know if this is the right forum for this, so if it isn't I'm sorry mods.

 

There's an owner in one of my leagues who, while not breaking any rules, has upset every other owner at one time or another.  During the previous offseason, when multiple owners quit because of this toxic owner, we had a league wide email that basically told said owner to cut this sh++ out.  As you can guess, he hasn't cut it out.  One of the other owners has already spoken about leaving at the end of this season.

Now the commissioner is dragging his feet on kicking the owner.  This is my favorite league and it's been going for over ten years.  I'm not sure it's going to last beyond this season if this ##### isn't kicked right now.  What do you guys suggest?

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How does he upset other owners?

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What does he do that is so bad? 

 

If there are 12 teams and 11 owners want the guy kicked out I think it's fairly simple to tell the guy he is no longer welcome.  Why is that so difficult?

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Just now, joffer said:

How does he upset other owners?

He's proposed a rule change that we voted against - then proposed it again and again.  For years.

He instantly, with long unintelligible rambles, rebuffs any ideas presented by other people who aren't him.

He's generally a ####.

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3 minutes ago, Gally said:

What does he do that is so bad? 

 

If there are 12 teams and 11 owners want the guy kicked out I think it's fairly simple to tell the guy he is no longer welcome.  Why is that so difficult?

He's partial owner of the team with a generally nice guy who can't take care of his team weekly. At least that's the only reason I can think the commish is dragging his feet.

4 minutes ago, Pip's Invitation said:

Form another league with the guys from this one who aren’t the toxic owner or anyone who doesn’t want to get rid of him.

This is a dynasty league.

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Align the other owners one at a time.  Once you have the majority present the ultimatum to the commish.  If commish doesn’t accommodate make your own league.

Problem solved. 

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Yet this is your favorite league? What you say and what you mean may differ. If it's your favorite with this jerk then the problem isn't that big. Let it go. 

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2 minutes ago, wgoldsph said:

He's proposed a rule change that we voted against - then proposed it again and again.  For years.

He instantly, with long unintelligible rambles, rebuffs any ideas presented by other people who aren't him.

He's generally a ####.

Um..if the league allows rules proposals to be made and voted on, why shouldn’t he keep advocating for his preferences?  I’ve been in leagues that took several years to adopt changes.  Heck, guys can miss the Hall of Fame threshold for years then finally get in.  Just designate one time frame in the offseason for all rules proposals, votes his down if you don’t like them, and move on?  I feel like I am missing something with the first one.

On the second, is he required to agree with everyone?  Why is being contrarian bad?  I get this (and do this) all the time in trade talks:  long-winded debates on the relative merits and vlaues of players with other owners.  Spirited dissertations on rules changes too at the appropriate time.

Three, on the other hand, is grounds for dismissal at season’s end.

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7 minutes ago, wgoldsph said:

He's proposed a rule change that we voted against - then proposed it again and again.  For years.

He instantly, with long unintelligible rambles, rebuffs any ideas presented by other people who aren't him.

He's generally a ####.

If he stays just quit.

 

i cut out all my toxic leagues. They aren’t worth it.

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1 minute ago, Arodin said:

Um..if the league allows rules proposals to be made and voted on, why shouldn’t he keep advocating for his preferences?  I’ve been in leagues that took several years to adopt changes.  Heck, guys can miss the Hall of Fame threshold for years then finally get in.  Just designate one time frame in the offseason for all rules proposals, votes his down if you don’t like them, and move on?  I feel like I am missing something with the first one.

On the second, is he required to agree with everyone?  Why is being contrarian bad?  I get this (and do this) all the time in trade talks:  long-winded debates on the relative merits and vlaues of players with other owners.  Spirited dissertations on rules changes too at the appropriate time.

Three, on the other hand, is grounds for dismissal at season’s end.

One is a rule - if a rule change is defeated it can't be voted on for another year.  It doesn't stop him from bringing it up multiple times in a season.

Second - I'm all for being a contrarian.  I generally am one.  But there's a difference between saying no and saying "no but my idea is what would make this league great"

4 minutes ago, BoltNlava said:

Yet this is your favorite league? What you say and what you mean may differ. If it's your favorite with this jerk then the problem isn't that big. Let it go. 

The league set up is a blast.  Unique scoring system, unique roster set up, unique cap situation. 12 of the 16 owners are good guys.  2 are duds but they're active at least. Then there's this guy.

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1 minute ago, IheartGuinness said:

Sick it out for this season, then you and other owners tell the commissioner that you won't return if he's still in the league. 

My fear is too many other owners will decide to leave before the end of the season and there won't be enough left to keep it going.

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17 minutes ago, wgoldsph said:

One is a rule - if a rule change is defeated it can't be voted on for another year.  It doesn't stop him from bringing it up multiple times in a season.

Second - I'm all for being a contrarian.  I generally am one.  But there's a difference between saying no and saying "no but my idea is what would make this league great"

The league set up is a blast.  Unique scoring system, unique roster set up, unique cap situation. 12 of the 16 owners are good guys.  2 are duds but they're active at least. Then there's this guy.

Proposing rule changes and then bringing them up often doesnt seem like that big of a deal to me. If this the first thing you gave as an example, then the rest of his schtick must not be much either.

That said, you seem like a pretty good poster in here- cant see you over reacting here. 

I can somewhat relate. I recently joined a start up. I was told the other guys were pretty good and involved on another message board. In general there are maybe 3 or 4 decent guys, a couple duds, and a couple of jack wagons. I get criticized for trade offers that I run through 2 calculators, Twitter poll, and 2 value charts (one being fbg) before proposing. Yet some of the trades made are obnoxiously bad. Also I'm told some of ly offers are discloses to others in the league, which is a quick way to lose my business permanently. I'm not a big fan of the personalities. I like the rules and I love my team, probably not worth it to me to continue... I havent made up my mind yet. So my advice to you would be to quit if it's taking the fun out of it. Maybe start your own league... bring the same owners and same rosters minus this one guy and the commish if he for some reason is being lazy about taking care of it. 

Cutting out the crap makes it more enjoyable. 

Edited by Dr. Dan
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Who wants to play in a league with owners they 100% like? I don't even love everyone in the league I commish. It makes for rivalries and smack talk and makes it fun when you beat them. 

When he brings up the rule change he wants every year, tell him to ####. That simple.

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3 minutes ago, Arodin said:

Um..if the league allows rules proposals to be made and voted on, why shouldn’t he keep advocating for his preferences?  I’ve been in leagues that took several years to adopt changes.  Heck, guys can miss the Hall of Fame threshold for years then finally get in.  Just designate one time frame in the offseason for all rules proposals, votes his down if you don’t like them, and move on?  I feel like I am missing something with the first one.

On the second, is he required to agree with everyone?  Why is being contrarian bad?  I get this (and do this) all the time in trade talks:  long-winded debates on the relative merits and vlaues of players with other owners.  Spirited dissertations on rules changes too at the appropriate time.

Three, on the other hand, is grounds for dismissal at season’s end.

I was going to post something almost identical to this sentiment.  Rule change proposals sometimes take time for people to understand or see where they may be beneficial to increase the fun/competitiveness/etc of a league. 

 

Giving explanations explaining things seems like a reasonable thing to do and is how discussions start to vet any rule proposals.  We have a two week time frame prior to the start of the new dynasty year (we stop transactions from a week after the NFL season until June 1st) where rules are proposed, discussed, and voted on.  It works well and plenty of people give long winded explanations on their side of things. 

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1 hour ago, wgoldsph said:

 

This is a dynasty league.

Transfer rosters. 

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1 hour ago, Dr. Dan said:

Proposing rule changes and then bringing them up often doesnt seem like that big of a deal to me. If this the first thing you gave as an example, then the rest of his schtick must not be much either.

That said, you seem like a pretty good poster in here- cant see you over reacting here. 

I can somewhat relate. I recently joined a start up. I was told the other guys were pretty good and involved on another message board. In general there are maybe 3 or 4 decent guys, a couple duds, and a couple of jack wagons. I get criticized for trade offers that I run through 2 calculators, Twitter poll, and 2 value charts (one being fbg) before proposing. Yet some of the trades made are obnoxiously bad. Also I'm told some of ly offers are discloses to others in the league, which is a quick way to lose my business permanently. I'm not a big fan of the personalities. I like the rules and I love my team, probably not worth it to me to continue... I havent made up my mind yet. So my advice to you would be to quit if it's taking the fun out of it. Maybe start your own league... bring the same owners and same rosters minus this one guy and the commish if he for some reason is being lazy about taking care of it. 

Cutting out the crap makes it more enjoyable. 

It's been years of the same rule change.  I get that in a bubble it seems like a small thing but after years when coupled with the batshart way he writes and general obstinate nature for any idea he doesn't present its gotten beyond the point where I or other owners feel like dealing with it.

 

The fact that owners talk about specifics of trades with other owners would be a huge red flag for me.  Yeesh, I would never trade with a guy if they started talking about exactly what I'm trying to work out.

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5 hours ago, wgoldsph said:

My fear is too many other owners will decide to leave before the end of the season and there won't be enough left to keep it going.

People don't quit great leagues midseason. If they do the league isn't as great as you think it is.

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5 hours ago, wgoldsph said:

The league set up is a blast.  Unique scoring system, unique roster set up, unique cap situation. 

Sounds like you could be the bigger problem.  You feel like you have the perfect league setup and this guy wants to change it.  You are creating unnecessary drama.

Edited by Don Hutson

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If you don't mind elaborating a bit further---out of curiosity---what is this rule change that this annoying owner keeps proposing or bringing up?    

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8 minutes ago, jvdesigns2002 said:

If you don't mind elaborating a bit further---out of curiosity---what is this rule change that this annoying owner keeps proposing or bringing up?    

He wants to change to all play.  We've been against it for years.

22 minutes ago, Don Hutson said:

Sounds like you could be the bigger problem.  You feel like you have the perfect league setup and this guy wants to change it.  You are creating unnecessary drama.

As I've said - the league voted against his rule proposal.  It was 15-1 against.  Then when it was up for vote again two years later it was also 15-1 against.

In the 2020 rule change forum post one of the owners specifically posted about needing to think about leaving the league due to the annoying owners action hence me making this post.

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1 minute ago, wgoldsph said:

He wants to change to all play.  We've been against it for years.

As I've said - the league voted against his rule proposal.  It was 15-1 against.  Then when it was up for vote again two years later it was also 15-1 against.

In the 2020 rule change forum post one of the owners specifically posted about needing to think about leaving the league due to the annoying owners action hence me making this post.

So you want to kick out a guy because he proposes a rule change once every 730 days?

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1 minute ago, Don Hutson said:

So you want to kick out a guy because he proposes a rule change once every 730 days?

Again, if you read the previous posts, he has been bringing up the rule constantly every year multiple times a year.  Our league votes on a rule and if defeated it can't be voted on until a year later.

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7 minutes ago, wgoldsph said:

Again, if you read the previous posts, he has been bringing up the rule constantly every year multiple times a year.  Our league votes on a rule and if defeated it can't be voted on until a year later.

Oh the humanity!

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Simply solution:

Tell the commish to kick him or you’ll create your own league with the exact same settings. Hell, you can even transfer your rosters over and find a few replacement owners to take over the rest of the teams.

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1 hour ago, PigSkinMan said:

Simply solution:

Tell the commish to kick him or you’ll create your own league with the exact same settings. Hell, you can even transfer your rosters over and find a few replacement owners to take over the rest of the teams.

Lol “simple solution.” First, customize a site with your specific rule set, then import the rosters. Then convince 10 other owners to come to that league. Assuming they do you still have to find someone to take that roster, if not more than one. Now you’re the commish and have to send the emails, collect the money, and deal with owners who don’t like this rule or that owner. 
 

Easy peasy!

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10 hours ago, wgoldsph said:

My fear is too many other owners will decide to leave before the end of the season and there won't be enough left to keep it going.

Give the Commish the ultimatum. If that fails, start the new league. - though due to records/playoffs this year, you'll probably need to wait until the offseason. But the knowledge that this will not continue beyond the end of this season would hopefully keep any more owners from bailing out.  Hopefully whichever platform you use will allow you to structure it exactly as it is now - rosters, draft picks, draft order. It would be a bit of work, but certain it is doable.

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2 hours ago, Snorkelson said:

Lol “simple solution.” First, customize a site with your specific rule set, then import the rosters. Then convince 10 other owners to come to that league. Assuming they do you still have to find someone to take that roster, if not more than one. Now you’re the commish and have to send the emails, collect the money, and deal with owners who don’t like this rule or that owner. 
 

Easy peasy!

If it's the best league ever, the hour or so to get things started is worth it.

If you don't want to be the commish, stop whining about the commish.

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2 hours ago, Snorkelson said:

Lol “simple solution.” First, customize a site with your specific rule set, then import the rosters. Then convince 10 other owners to come to that league. Assuming they do you still have to find someone to take that roster, if not more than one. Now you’re the commish and have to send the emails, collect the money, and deal with owners who don’t like this rule or that owner. 
 

Easy peasy!

It's a dynasty league and one that seems pretty competitive if proposed rule changes are causing such heated debates every year. It's safe to assume most of these guys devote plenty of hours to this league every year so one dude taking 2-3 hours to setup the league, transfer rosters, and send out some emails/invites really doesn't seem like much. And lol at collecting money being difficult, takes literally 5 minutes to set up leaguesafe. Not sure what you mean by "deal with owners", the whole point of forming a new league is to leave behind the annoying owner who was the one pushing for rule changes, and the stubborn commish. If anything, the new league should have way less drama. 

 

I do agree that convincing enough owners to leave that league and join the new one would be a messy situation and that the biggest headache would be having to find the 3-6 new owners to take over the existing rosters. A disposal draft would probably be the best way to attract new owners. 

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7 hours ago, PigSkinMan said:

Simply solution:

Tell the commish to kick him or you’ll create your own league with the exact same settings. Hell, you can even transfer your rosters over and find a few replacement owners to take over the rest of the teams.

Simpler solution:

Vote down the rule change one time a year.  Ignore the annoying owner the rest of the year. 

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15 hours ago, wgoldsph said:

I don't know if this is the right forum for this, so if it isn't I'm sorry mods.

 

There's an owner in one of my leagues who, while not breaking any rules, has upset every other owner at one time or another.  During the previous offseason, when multiple owners quit because of this toxic owner, we had a league wide email that basically told said owner to cut this sh++ out.  As you can guess, he hasn't cut it out.  One of the other owners has already spoken about leaving at the end of this season.

Now the commissioner is dragging his feet on kicking the owner.  This is my favorite league and it's been going for over ten years.  I'm not sure it's going to last beyond this season if this ##### isn't kicked right now.  What do you guys suggest?

I have the solution- vote on a rule change- teams can only have one owner. 

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This sounds like a none issue all around. Oh no.... He has bad grammar and sentence structure....

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I can't tell if you're asking for advice on what to do or just looking for us to validate that this guy is "untenable".

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4 hours ago, Nucker101 said:

It's a dynasty league and one that seems pretty competitive if proposed rule changes are causing such heated debates every year. It's safe to assume most of these guys devote plenty of hours to this league every year so one dude taking 2-3 hours to setup the league, transfer rosters, and send out some emails/invites really doesn't seem like much. And lol at collecting money being difficult, takes literally 5 minutes to set up leaguesafe. Not sure what you mean by "deal with owners", the whole point of forming a new league is to leave behind the annoying owner who was the one pushing for rule changes, and the stubborn commish. If anything, the new league should have way less drama. 

 

I do agree that convincing enough owners to leave that league and join the new one would be a messy situation and that the biggest headache would be having to find the 3-6 new owners to take over the existing rosters. A disposal draft would probably be the best way to attract new owners. 

I have never used leaguesafe.  Why does this make it easier to collect money from delinquent owners?  My problem isn't organizing the money or paying out.  It is having people pay on time.  Does leaguesafe somehow make them pay on time?

Edited by Gally

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3 minutes ago, Gally said:

I have never used leaguesafe.  Why does this make it easier to collect money from delinquent owners?  My problem isn't organizing the money or paying out.  It is having people pay on time.  Does leaguesafe somehow make them pay on time?

Put it in the rules that they will pay an extra 1% for every day that their dues are late.  They will pay on time.

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6 minutes ago, Don Hutson said:

Put it in the rules that they will pay an extra 1% for every day that their dues are late.  They will pay on time.

We have rules of when fees must be paid or you lose draft picks.  The same owner that is always problematic lost a pick one year and #####ed and complained that I was being unfair about it.  We have had to institute many rules surrounding payments (we pay for free agents acquired so you can run up a tab during the season) to avoid these type of things but it hasn't stopped this owner from #####ing every step of the way thinking everyone is being unfair to him when he is late.   Everyone else has the same rules and seem to have no problem paying on time. 

 

Its a league of a bunch of long time buddies so it doesn't feel right kicking this guy out although things have gotten heated at times where he has threatened to quit.  I wasn't going to stop him...…..hahhahaha

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21 hours ago, wgoldsph said:

My fear is too many other owners will decide to leave before the end of the season and there won't be enough left to keep it going.

Problem solved! :D

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Years ago I had to kick a long term owner from a great dynasty league and it was a hard thing to do. He was clearly toxic and making people miserable but he was also a GREAT owner in terms of competence and making the league a better league and competitive.  His replacement led to other replacements over the years and the owners who followed him were never as good as him and the league was kind of thrown out of balance because the owners that followed broke up a good team, gave away players in poor trades, etc.

I thought many times I would rather have a good owner and a great competitive league and tolerate the jerks than have an uncompetitive league with no personality and no real "juice" in the league.  

With that being said, my only advice I can give is "try to keep the main thing the main thing". If he is threatening the league to actually not exist then you have to do something or there won't be a league. On the other hand, if he is simply just abrasive and people have differences of opinions but you have a good league WITH him, then maybe its just a matter of all owners looking at in that way. 

 

Hope that helps. 

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If other owners are able to put on blinders, and it sounds like they do...for ten plus years mind you, put the same blinders on and just ignore it.

Heck, once the poll goes up, put your vote in and exclaim your votes in already....

Everyone can then see how you voted and help influence against the guy.

I honestly thought this was some kind of crazy situation, it's not.    

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I'm afraid the members here can't help you. You either:

1. Deal With It

2. Form a majority of the owners and tell the commish they boot said owner or you all walk right now

3. Leave after the season.

If an owner is a big enough issue that you are bringing it here I just wouldn't stick around.

 

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I say grow up, if he is allowed to propose rules he can, and if he wants to vote against everyone else that is his right.  As mentioned, if the majority want him out kick him out nonetheless, even if it is wrong to do so.

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23 hours ago, wgoldsph said:

He's proposed a rule change that we voted against - then proposed it again and again.  For years.

He instantly, with long unintelligible rambles, rebuffs any ideas presented by other people who aren't him.

He's generally a ####.

 

Sounds like you guys are the ones who are the awful owners.  You are the type of owners that anger me and should be booted.

Crying about owners who are not breaking rules because he proposed rules over and over and runs his mouth? 

People who cry like you are doing make leagues bad. What always amuses me are the so called men who cry in a game based off picking players for our own amusement. 

You asked, I answered. Seems you are being unkind to an owner who is active. 

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Pretty sure you should probably quit the league and start a one man league...but don’t be a ##### or you’ll have to kick yourself out 😂

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On 10/29/2019 at 11:12 AM, habsfan said:

I can't tell if you're asking for advice on what to do or just looking for us to validate that this guy is "untenable".

The first thing people asked was what made him "untenable." I didn't want to get into it, as I understand my league drama is boring and from an outsiders perspective can be very pretty.  See this guy...

19 hours ago, tackle for loss said:

 

Sounds like you guys are the ones who are the awful owners.  You are the type of owners that anger me and should be booted.

Crying about owners who are not breaking rules because he proposed rules over and over and runs his mouth? 

People who cry like you are doing make leagues bad. What always amuses me are the so called men who cry in a game based off picking players for our own amusement. 

You asked, I answered. Seems you are being unkind to an owner who is active. 

I accept your answer.  I don't mind arguing with this guy or any other guy.  I just don't want to lose the rest of the league because of him.  If that makes us "so called men" bad owners then I'd rather have the group of bad owners I've been with forever that I like instead of just one who makes everyone miserable.

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