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NFL Rules question - you make the call (1 Viewer)

In this scenario ball is awarded to:

  • Offense

    Votes: 27 79.4%
  • Defense

    Votes: 4 11.8%
  • Judgment call

    Votes: 3 8.8%
  • Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    34

Rove!

Footballguy
Scenario

short yardage 

RB carries up the middle and reaches for the first down with one hand on the ball

while the ball is outstretched, a defender grabs the ball, but the RB never lets go or loses contact with the ball as both hit the ground

visually, the defender is wrapped around the ball and the RB’s hand, with the hand on the ball

is this a fumble or a first down?

 
This sounds like what happened in the Seattle / San Fran game.  In that case the ball was awarded to the defense

 
Is the RB still upright or is this a situation where the runner is being tackled to the ground and the defender is grabbing the ball?

In the first case, that's one of those amorphous judgment calls -- if there is no clear change of possession prior to/at the moment of the whistle blowing and forward momentum being stopped, and RB has the ball firmly in his hand with control (even if joint control), seems like that's not a turnover, but a lot will depend on when the play was stopped and the degree of control the RB has at that point. If the runner starts to lose control before the whistle, seems like it's a turnover and given to the D. If it's impossible to see that degree of control (defender wrapped around hand/ball) then it goes to whomever the refs decided as there is no clear evidence to overturn offense retains if the RB retained control, defense gets it if the RB started to lose it prior to the whistle).

If the RB is going down, does he still have control (even joint control) of the ball when he's ruled down? If so, offense retains as D never clearly established control BEFORE runner can be ruled down. If there is loss of control before the runner can be ruled down (elbow, knee, etc.) then it's a fumble and D's ball. If it's impossible to see (defender wrapped around hand/ball) then it goes to whomever the refs decided as there is no clear evidence to overturn.

 
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Last edited by a moderator:
Scenario

short yardage 

RB carries up the middle and reaches for the first down with one hand on the ball

while the ball is outstretched, a defender grabs the ball, but the RB never lets go or loses contact with the ball as both hit the ground

visually, the defender is wrapped around the ball and the RB’s hand, with the hand on the ball

is this a fumble or a first down?
Does that mean the RB never lost possession?  If that is what is meant then the RB never lost possession and it remains his ball. 

 
If the RB maintains a grip on the ball, then it's a first down.

If the RB is merely touching the ball while the defender possesses it, then it's a turnover.

 
If the RB maintains a grip on the ball, then it's a first down.

If the RB is merely touching the ball while the defender possesses it, then it's a turnover.
This....  On alot of fumbles the runner still has contact with the ball....but that doesnt mean they still control it.  

 
Scenario

short yardage 

RB carries up the middle and reaches for the first down with one hand on the ball

while the ball is outstretched, a defender grabs the ball, but the RB never lets go or loses contact with the ball as both hit the ground

visually, the defender is wrapped around the ball and the RB’s hand, with the hand on the ball

is this a fumble or a first down?
This is different than the SEA SF game. 

 
Agree... not same as Metcalf in Sea/SF game.  Metcalf lost possession and had no control of the ball prior to hitting the ground. 

da_budman said:
This....  On alot of fumbles the runner still has contact with the ball....but that doesnt mean they still control it.  
Voted Defense, but I see it could go either way...  Having a hand on the ball while the Ball is in complete possession of the Def does not equate "control" when there is motion.  That would be equivalent to saying just because the RB could still touch the ball, he is always in possession while that may not be accurate.  The same way "Control" when a WR hits the ground could be applied.  Did he have security of the ball when contact with the ground was made.... in this scenario, he did not have control or security.  

 

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