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RB Clyde Edwards-Helaire, KC (1 Viewer)

DonnieA said:
Running that little guy up the middle was not working. He got blasted repeatedly. I suppose once he gets experience, he will be able to find the hole instead of just running into the back of his blockers. He could have had 3 TDs had they run plays to his strength which is making people miss.
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Right.   Big things are ahead for CEH.   Wait until he starts catching passes.   I wouldn’t sell if I owned him.   I’m looking to buy after a down week.

 
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DonnieA said:
Running that little guy up the middle was not working. He got blasted repeatedly. I suppose once he gets experience, he will be able to find the hole instead of just running into the back of his blockers. He could have had 3 TDs had they run plays to his strength which is making people miss.
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He scored his 27 yard TD up the middle. 

If you’re referring to the last sequence at the end of the game where he got stuffed 3x, keep in mind that it was 2:12 on the clock, the Texans had 0 time-outs and they took it down to 33 seconds by running CEH into the pile. 

Texans are big up the middle. Ya think maybe Reid wasn’t trying to get CEH across the stripe there? Seemed weird he couldn’t get that last 1/2 yard when he had all kinds of momentum on the scamper that got them to the GL.

I’m 99% certain they didn’t want to score, and that he was told to go down at the 1. End game strategy is still a thing coaches do. :shrug:  

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
He scored his 27 yard TD up the middle. 

If you’re referring to the last sequence at the end of the game where he got stuffed 3x, keep in mind that it was 2:12 on the clock, the Texans had 0 time-outs and they took it down to 33 seconds by running CEH into the pile. 

Texans are big up the middle. Ya think maybe Reid wasn’t trying to get CEH across the stripe there? Seemed weird he couldn’t get that last 1/2 yard when he had all kinds of momentum on the scamper that got them to the GL.

I’m 99% certain they didn’t want to score, and that he was told to go down at the 1. End game strategy is still a thing coaches do. :shrug:  
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It wasn’t just that last series- he didn’t look nearly as impressive on most of his GL carries than he did between the 10s

 
I-ROK said:
It wasn’t just that last series- he didn’t look nearly as impressive on most of his GL carries than he did between the 10s
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Feels like you're picking nits. 

He easily passed the eye test last night. I've watched a lot of rookie debuts. I'm not sure what more you'd want to see out of a kid. He was shifty, had good vision, good lateral movement, good burst, lowered his shoulder to contact & had the power to run out of leg tackles a few times that would have tripped up a lesser back.  

He did remind me of a smaller MJD,  with a little Warick Dunn mixed in. I couldn't put my finger on it until Dungy said it. He also had wiggle like Westbrook - made tacklers miss in the open field several times. 

He's going to finish top 5 RB barring injury.  

 
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Hot Sauce Guy said:
Feels like you're picking nits. 

He easily passed the eye test last night. I've watched a lot of rookie debuts. I'm not sure what more you'd want to see out of a kid. He was shifty, had good vision, good lateral movement, good burst, lowered his shoulder to contact & had the power to run out of leg tackles a few times that would have tripped up a lesser back.  

I did remind me of a smaller MJD,  with a little Warick Dunn mixed in. I couldn't put my finger on it until Dungy said it. He also had wiggle like Westbrook - made tacklers miss in the open field several times. 

He's going to finish top 5 RB barring injury.  
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He looked great in space. I don’t dispute that. Anyone who took him has to be happy with what they saw; he shouldn’t be a bust. When on the goal line he did not look like anything special, and quite frankly looked like anyone else who isn’t good at the goal line. He most certainly did not look like MJD on the goal line. Every other carry it was the opposite- he looked great. It was like two different backs. Not nit picking. It was what it was and I see I’m not nearly the only person who saw this. There are a lot of backs in the NFL who just aren’t good on the GL. That’s just fine but without improvement it could limit his upside. It’s okay for CEH to be human. His fantasy owners will still be just fine. A few catches and he makes up for that TD deficiency 

 
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Hot Sauce Guy said:
He scored his 27 yard TD up the middle. 

If you’re referring to the last sequence at the end of the game where he got stuffed 3x, keep in mind that it was 2:12 on the clock, the Texans had 0 time-outs and they took it down to 33 seconds by running CEH into the pile. 

Texans are big up the middle. Ya think maybe Reid wasn’t trying to get CEH across the stripe there? Seemed weird he couldn’t get that last 1/2 yard when he had all kinds of momentum on the scamper that got them to the GL.

I’m 99% certain they didn’t want to score, and that he was told to go down at the 1. End game strategy is still a thing coaches do. :shrug:  
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Not that it's all that important but I'll take the under on this.

 
It was an impressive debut but he doesn't get to play against BoB every week. It's clear he can't move a pile. But nobody should have expected that from a dude that is 5'7". 

 
TwinTurbo said:
It was an impressive debut but he doesn't get to play against BoB every week. It's clear he can't move a pile. But nobody should have expected that from a dude that is 5'7". 
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How about instead of running a standard goal line offense with everyone crammed in the middle you spread the field with all the weapons KC has and open up some lanes that will feed to CEH's strength of being in space?  Use that formation and misdirection with lanes and CEH has no problem getting into the endzone.  Play to the player's strength's don't limit the options. 

 
humpback said:
Not that it's all that important but I'll take the under on this.
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I'm just sayin - Reid has called a lot of GL plays. He didn't run CEH to the outside once, but instead ran into the teeth of HOU. 

They successfully drained all the clock. 

Pretty sure that was by design. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
He scored his 27 yard TD up the middle. 

If you’re referring to the last sequence at the end of the game where he got stuffed 3x, keep in mind that it was 2:12 on the clock, the Texans had 0 time-outs and they took it down to 33 seconds by running CEH into the pile. 

Texans are big up the middle. Ya think maybe Reid wasn’t trying to get CEH across the stripe there? Seemed weird he couldn’t get that last 1/2 yard when he had all kinds of momentum on the scamper that got them to the GL.

I’m 99% certain they didn’t want to score, and that he was told to go down at the 1. End game strategy is still a thing coaches do. :shrug:  
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Referring to the GL attempts. He's fine out in the field where Mahomes can go deep and stretch the field. Bunched up, not good yet I think he will learn.

 
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Gally said:
How about instead of running a standard goal line offense with everyone crammed in the middle you spread the field with all the weapons KC has and open up some lanes that will feed to CEH's strength of being in space?  Use that formation and misdirection with lanes and CEH has no problem getting into the endzone.  Play to the player's strength's don't limit the options. 
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That's in part why I suspect they weren't trying to score there. 

 
Gally said:
How about instead of running a standard goal line offense with everyone crammed in the middle you spread the field with all the weapons KC has and open up some lanes that will feed to CEH's strength of being in space?  Use that formation and misdirection with lanes and CEH has no problem getting into the endzone.  Play to the player's strength's don't limit the options. 
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Yes I have been thinking about this, but quite frankly I’m not sure it’s that easy. In this case the defense has a 12th defender- the back of the end zone. The field gets awfully small when you spread it out. If it were that easy, everyone would do it. There’s a reason they don’t, and I imagine it has to do with probability of success, since that’s how most coaches make their decisions these days 

 
Hell, if the Chiefs were really trying to score there, they could have faked the 2nd hand-off to CEH and Mahomie walks it in like Watson did earlier. The exact. Same. Play. 

Woulda been the easiest thing ever. But why try to score when you're salting clock away? 

 
It will be very interesting to see how Reid calls those goal line plays when the game is much closer, that we can agree on (although he did run up the middle earlier when the game wasn’t out of reach for Houston). 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Hell, if the Chiefs were really trying to score there, they could have faked the 2nd hand-off to CEH and Mahomie walks it in like Watson did earlier. The exact. Same. Play. 

Woulda been the easiest thing ever. But why try to score when you're salting clock away? 
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No doubt. That play is a lost art.

 
I-ROK said:
It will be very interesting to see how Reid calls those goal line plays when the game is much closer, that we can agree on (although he did run up the middle earlier when the game wasn’t out of reach for Houston). 
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Yeah, it's hard to write anything in stone on a 1-game sample size. 

I'm willing to give CEH the benefit of the doubt until I've seen a  little more in meaningful action. That end-game sequence was meaningless. 

I am not a CEH owner anywhere. I may regret that by season's end (though I would have had to pass on Zeke for him) 

 
I-ROK said:
I don’t think it’s a valid question for the scenario. I don’t think any coach tells his athletes not to score 
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actually that happens all the time at the end of games. 

Sort of like defenses that let an opponent walk into the end zone to save clock. 

Both counter-intuitive. But they happen. 

 
Not concerned about the GL stuff as I didn’t figure him to be a plower. Thought they would try a sweep or pitch but I am sure that will resolve. He will continue to chew yards up between the 20s and I expect him to improve with time in all facets. My biggest concern was him getting rerouted and taken out of the play on a couple of passing routes he ran. I am sure they will find ways to get him in space in the passing game as the season goes on but he will need to do a better job of avoiding contact on short routes to keep himself as an option.

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
actually that happens all the time at the end of games. 

Sort of like defenses that let an opponent walk into the end zone to save clock. 

Both counter-intuitive. But they happen. 
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Letting the offense score is different than telling a teammate to fall down at the goal line. We might see this in some cases (guy gets an interception, falls down in play so as to not turn the ball back over). If Andy Reid’s goal was to just run the clock and kick a FG he would have taken a knee. I looked at it as he is trying to figure out how his new toy works in different scenarios so he can either know what not to call in the future and/or know what needs to be worked on. I saw a coach treating it like a preseason situation. It’s fine that you see it otherwise. We will see this team again in a week and have more information, hopefully against a much better defense than Houston

 
King of the Jungle said:
Not concerned about the GL stuff as I didn’t figure him to be a plower. Thought they would try a sweep or pitch but I am sure that will resolve. He will continue to chew yards up between the 20s and I expect him to improve with time in all facets. My biggest concern was him getting rerouted and taken out of the play on a couple of passing routes he ran. I am sure they will find ways to get him in space in the passing game as the season goes on but he will need to do a better job of avoiding contact on short routes to keep himself as an option.
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If I had CEH my biggest concern would be the pass from Mahomie that landed in front of a moving train. CEH got jacked....up....on that one. (god I miss that segment. :lol:  )  But testament to his toughness, didn't phase him one bit. That was definitely a "welcome to the NFL" type-hit though and I'm betting there was a "my bad" from Mahomie afterwards. 

 
I-ROK said:
Letting the offense score is different than telling a teammate to fall down at the goal line. We might see this in some cases (guy gets an interception, falls down in play so as to not turn the ball back over). If Andy Reid’s goal was to just run the clock and kick a FG he would have taken a knee. I looked at it as he is trying to figure out how his new toy works in different scenarios so he can either know what not to call in the future and/or know what needs to be worked on. I saw a coach treating it like a preseason situation. It’s fine that you see it otherwise. We will see this team again in a week and have more information, hopefully against a much better defense than Houston
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End of game, 2+ mins on the clock. What is the point of scoring there? What possible strategy would it serve other than putting your defensive players back on the field & risking injury for 2 more mins? 

Reid could have called a dozen plays more likely to score there.  He chose to bunch everyone up & run into a pile 3X. 

30 seconds on the clock after the FG. Looks like Reid ran a successful strategy to me. :shrug:  

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
If you’re referring to the last sequence at the end of the game where he got stuffed 3x, keep in mind that it was 2:12 on the clock, the Texans had 0 time-outs and they took it down to 33 seconds by running CEH into the pile. 

. . . 

I’m 99% certain they didn’t want to score, and that he was told to go down at the 1. End game strategy is still a thing coaches do. :shrug:  
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Spot on analysis.    Was thinking this while watching last night.    The amount of time blasted off the clock in that sequence was staggering, they took the clock from 2:01 to 0:33 with those plays, and still put a FG on the board, which is just as much of a dagger as a TD with the score where it was.      I wouldn't be surprised if Reid doesn't run that in practice with the guidance being to just run into the OLINE and stand there.      He takes heat for clock management, but there are few better at pulling things from a deep playbook at just the right time. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
actually that happens all the time at the end of games. 

Sort of like defenses that let an opponent walk into the end zone to save clock. 

Both counter-intuitive. But they happen. 
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I know they happen, but it certainly isn't "all the time" and I think it was unlikely it happened in this particular instance (never mind 99% sure it was).

A TD there puts them up 3 scores with under 2 minutes and no time outs left for Houston. Letting his shiny new toy celebrate an even bigger debut>>>>>>>.0000000001% change in win probability.*

*not an actual calculation, but you get the gist

 
 I wouldn't be surprised if Reid doesn't run that in practice with the guidance being to just run into the OLINE and stand there.      He takes heat for clock management, but there are few better at pulling things from a deep playbook at just the right time. 
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I've seen coaches yell at players for scoring in those situations. As a FF manager, there is nothing more frustrating, but it is what it is. 

Couple years ago when Gurley was unstoppable, he had a 2 TD game going. 2 mins-ish left in the game, he had a saunter-in TD and fell down at the 4 yard line. 

Crushing for FF.  Game-winning move for RL Football. 

Sometimes RL strategy and Fantasy Football disagree about what constitutes a "good play". 

 
humpback said:
I know they happen, but it certainly isn't "all the time" and I think it was unlikely it happened in this particular instance (never mind 99% sure it was).

A TD there puts them up 3 scores with under 2 minutes and no time outs left for Houston. Letting his shiny new toy celebrate an even bigger debut>>>>>>>.0000000001% change in win probability.*

*not an actual calculation, but you get the gist
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Look back to the long run that got them to the stripe. CEH could have scored there. He didn't try to break a tackle or fake the dude out. He went down at the 1. 

 
I-ROK said:
Yes I have been thinking about this, but quite frankly I’m not sure it’s that easy. In this case the defense has a 12th defender- the back of the end zone. The field gets awfully small when you spread it out. If it were that easy, everyone would do it. There’s a reason they don’t, and I imagine it has to do with probability of success, since that’s how most coaches make their decisions these days 
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Not every team has the skill players KC has.  Kelce, Tyreek, Watkins, Mahomes, CEH in a spread offense is really unfair even at the goal line.  Too many options with misdirection and open lanes that directly feed into CEH's strengths.  Most times when teams go spread (which is not often) the RB draw (or RPO) works more often than not. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
End of game, 2+ mins on the clock. What is the point of scoring there? What possible strategy would it serve other than putting your defensive players back on the field & risking injury for 2 more mins? 

Reid could have called a dozen plays more likely to score there.  He chose to bunch everyone up & run into a pile 3X. 

30 seconds on the clock after the FG. Looks like Reid ran a successful strategy to me. :shrug:  
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You didn't answer his question- why not take a knee if that was the goal? Why risk a fumble, or injury, or heaven forbid actually scoring the TD?

Not our of the realm of possibility it was planned, but seems much closer to 99% that it wasn't than it was IMO.

 
humpback said:
You didn't answer his question- why not take a knee if that was the goal? Why risk a fumble, or injury, or heaven forbid actually scoring the TD?

Not our of the realm of possibility it was planned, but seems much closer to 99% that it wasn't than it was IMO.
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Again, I have no idea. Maybe to get the rookie reps.  I don't think they were trying to score. If they wanted to score there are 100 better plays to call to do so. The entire HOU defense was bunched up in the middle. Mahomes coulda walked it in. A toss sweep woulda been unstoppable. 

Why run it up the gut 3X? 

That 30 seconds left on the clock when HOU got the ball back in a 2-score game seems to answer that question. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Again, I have no idea. Maybe to get the rookie reps.  I don't think they were trying to score. If they wanted to score there are 100 better plays to call to do so. The entire HOU defense was bunched up in the middle. Mahomes coulda walked it in. A toss sweep woulda been unstoppable. 

Why run it up the gut 3X? 

That 30 seconds left on the clock when HOU got the ball back in a 2-score game seems to answer that question. 
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They were for sure trying to score on every play.  It may not have been a situation where they use their "must score a TD on this play" play but they were trying to score.  My guess is that they were using this somewhat like preseason in that they finally get time against another team and can work on some things.  They didn't need to score so lets work on some goal line things we are not as good at and see where we are at.  I would believe that much more than them actually not trying to score.  If that was the case they just kneel. 

 
Gally said:
They were for sure trying to score on every play.  It may not have been a situation where they use their "must score a TD on this play" play but they were trying to score.  My guess is that they were using this somewhat like preseason in that they finally get time against another team and can work on some things.  They didn't need to score so lets work on some goal line things we are not as good at and see where we are at.  I would believe that much more than them actually not trying to score.  If that was the case they just kneel. 
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Ok, I can buy that. It's possible. I won't argue it. Maybe they were doing that. Maybe the idea was "if we score, cool, if we don't, even better". 

But for certain they weren't really, really trying to score there, because if they were a PA fake toss to Kelce would have worked 1000/1000 times. Or 100 other better plays than running into the teeth of 10 in the box. 

 
humpback said:
You didn't answer his question- why not take a knee if that was the goal? Why risk a fumble, or injury
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There are NFL coaches who believe that taking a knee (other than end of game where everyone is standing at the snap) in a situation like that is more likely to produce an injury or a penalty flag than simply running a designed play which is designed to gain zero yards (but burn game clock).    

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Again, I have no idea. Maybe to get the rookie reps.  I don't think they were trying to score. If they wanted to score there are 100 better plays to call to do so. The entire HOU defense was bunched up in the middle. Mahomes coulda walked it in. A toss sweep woulda been unstoppable. 

Why run it up the gut 3X? 

That 30 seconds left on the clock when HOU got the ball back in a 2-score game seems to answer that question. 
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Now it seems you're just being obtuse. Of course trying to score a TD wasn't the only thing on their mind right there but no one said it was. You said you are 99% sure they did not want to score and he was told to go down at the 1. That's the discussion, not "was running it up the gut 3X their best chance at scoring a TD?".

Could you imagine if he told them not to score but instead of taking a knee he got his prize RB injured because he chose to run him into a bunch of mammoth linemen 3x? Simple logic dictates that he was trying to give him some more goal line work, work the clock, and if they scored a TD, great, if not, great as well- they were winning the game at that point either way.

 
humpback said:
Now it seems you're just being obtuse.
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No need to be rude. 

Of course trying to score a TD wasn't the only thing on their mind right there but no one said it was. You said you are 99% sure they did not want to score and he was told to go down at the 1. That's the discussion, not "was running it up the gut 3X their best chance at scoring a TD?".
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And I am 99% sure. Am I not allowed to have an opinion? People said CEH was a failure in short yardage - that was the part of the discussion I responded to.  And I am still of that opinion - that the failure to score was at least in part by design to kill clock. 

Could you imagine if he told them not to score but instead of taking a knee he got his prize RB injured because he chose to run him into a bunch of mammoth linemen 3x? Simple logic dictates that he was trying to give him some more goal line work, work the clock, and if they scored a TD, great, if not, great as well- they were winning the game at that point either way.
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You contradict your own point. Can you imagine if CEH got hurt trying to score a completely meaningless TD instead of falling down 3X to salt away the game? Same logic. Reid would have been skewered regardless if he got hurt. 

 
wow totally off the rails here. unreadable. 

i'll say this, he has decent power for a smaller guy. but there are times in the game where you are beat as a ballcarrier and either need to go down or to figure out how to take glancing blows to fall forward. zeke is elite at that. i know it has been a long time since i've watched football, and everytime that happens i always think every RB is going to get injured on every play, but i thought CEH went for it a few times in a way that will break him sooner than later. 

i agree the playcalling was ultra conservative there.

 
hispeedthinmint said:
WHat would that decent return before you in dynasty PPR? I own him as well & would move him for a great lineup improvement, but not sure what that is without selling short. Before yesterday's game, I turned down an offer of David Johnson & Godwin. Not a DJ guy & rather get Miles Sanders off him. Now the Godwin owner has moved to try to get Conner off me for Allen & Z. Moss which I also declined
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Was just offered Mixon, Ridley, Burrows, and a 1st round pick next year.  Some crazy stuff coming in!

 
barackdhouse said:
wow totally off the rails here. unreadable. 

i'll say this, he has decent power for a smaller guy. but there are times in the game where you are beat as a ballcarrier and either need to go down or to figure out how to take glancing blows to fall forward. zeke is elite at that. i know it has been a long time since i've watched football, and everytime that happens i always think every RB is going to get injured on every play, but i thought CEH went for it a few times in a way that will break him sooner than later. 

i agree the playcalling was ultra conservative there.
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I dunno - he had a nice lower-the-shoulder moment where he ran though 2 defenders to scrape out another 1-2 yards - someone linked to it above. He looked a little Zeke-like there. 

overall I agree with your point, but I also feel like if a dude can’t lower his shoulder into a defender he shouldn’t be playing the position. CEH showed some toughness there - I was impressed. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
I dunno - he had a nice lower-the-shoulder moment where he ran though 2 defenders to scrape out another 1-2 yards - someone linked to it above. He looked a little Zeke-like there. 

overall I agree with your point, but I also feel like if a dude can’t lower his shoulder into a defender he shouldn’t be playing the position. CEH showed some toughness there - I was impressed. 
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yeah he is capable, in the right moment and with the right timing (like anyone else). what i'm getting at is i think he needs to find that balance and i saw a few times where he was great and a few where i thought his leg might break. scared me a little. but i get that way every september.

 
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