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RB Clyde Edwards-Helaire, KC (2 Viewers)

cloppbeast said:
I'm still trying to wrap my head around this one. Every year guys get taken way eailer or later than expected, but it always surprises me.

I'd say he's the 1.01 for me, only way that changes if Swift goes to Tampa.
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Even with that are you really gonna take a chance on not having a potential Brian Westbrook playing with Mahomes and for Any Reid...and I will say this, if they took Taylor, Dobbins or Swift I would feel the same way...KC using a #1 on a RB was easily the top potential landing spot fantasy-wise for me...I would not over-think this one, it is about as safe a pick as you could possibly make...I just don't see this organization having their choice of all the top RBs and whiffing on it.

 
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cloppbeast said:
I'm still trying to wrap my head around this one. Every year guys get taken way eailer or later than expected, but it always surprises me.

I'd say he's the 1.01 for me, only way that changes if Swift goes to Tampa.
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Jonathan Taylor to Indy would be a dream landing spot.

 
I love this pick for KC.  Edwards-Helaire was my top RB before he went to KC.  This system will exploit his receiving skills.  There are still a few gems at RB in this draft, but KC, the defending Super Bowl Champions, just got a lot harder to defend, especially in the passing game.   

I agree with Swift to Tampa, but we will see.  Tampa will be drafting a RB coming up.  

 
cloppbeast said:
I'm still trying to wrap my head around this one. Every year guys get taken way eailer or later than expected, but it always surprises me.

I'd say he's the 1.01 for me, only way that changes if Swift goes to Tampa.
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I don't think this one was way earlier than expected. I thought him or Swift would be the first back off the board because of their chops in the passing game. They're both good runner's - in different ways; and Dobbins and Taylor are better. But, not in the passing game. And that's what the NFL values.

 
BigTex said:
1.01 BABY!!!!

Tex
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Good news for those who want to draft Dobbins, Taylor and Swift if they land in decent spots.  This just means there are 7 top guys to select at the moment (could change).  CEH, Taylor, Swift, Dobbins, Akers, Jeudy, and Lamb.

 
BigTex said:
 Most importantly, CEH showcased a three-down skillset against several strong opponents.

It should be noted that Texas (9), Florida (7), Auburn (9), and Alabama (3) were all ranked inside the top 10 when LSU played against them. Given that CEH showed out against top opponents, I’m optimistic that he can be a solid contributor in the NFL as a rusher and receiver.
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This is important context. Burrow deservedly had the spotlight all year, but there were games where we wouldn't have won without CEH. He took over parts of the Bama game (he and Najee Harris were the best players on the field that game). The Bama defense was down this year (youth, injuries) but still top competition. We probably don't win against Bama without him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6zDgZznMtE

I can't find a similar video showing his carries against Auburn (beyond highlights) but he was instrumental in that game as well. They had an NFL defensive line, and slowed us down more than any other team. This article summarizes the game flow (sorry about not finding a vid; maybe others has have better resources): https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/sports/lsu/article_7ecb2aea-f826-11e9-bb70-f7c933282440.html

ETA: @Dr. Octopus beat me to it on Bama video above.

 
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JohnnyU said:
Good news for those who want to draft Dobbins, Taylor and Swift if they land in decent spots.  This just means there are 7 top guys to select at the moment (could change).  CEH, Taylor, Swift, Dobbins, Akers, Jeudy, and Lamb.
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Exactly. I’ve got the 1.07 and in dire need of an RB. CEH and Raegor and Ruggs going high has muddied up the top 6

 
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Bazinga! said:
CEH is the 1.01 (in ppr) I love the how people let their egos get in the way, because the result doesn’t match their pre draft expectation. 
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I had him as my RB3 most of the off-season but recently moved him to RB2 and I made post after post this offseason in this and other threads he was the most underrated prospect in the draft and everyone would see it on draft night. So he came pretty close to meeting my expectations.

If Swift, who was my #1 RB, lands in Tampa is only way this is not clear cut to me but I could see argument for Taylor truthers if he lands in good spot I guess.

Was kind of a very bittersweet pick for me. I don't care to be right on what I said here, I loaded up on CEH in various redrafts I've done this year and some with high stakes payouts. So in that sense I'm very happy. I'm super down however in that I was hoping he'd land somewhere were people did not love him because now I think at best I'll get him one place in dynasty.

 
PFF statistical comps for CEH:

Kareem Hunt 98% similarity

Duke Johnson 96%

Giovani Bernard 95%

Joe Mixon 93%

Alvin Kamara 91%

 
Wooters said:
 Plus, why is it a guarantee that he's even going to be better than Thompson?  A year under his belt, isn't it possible he comes to camp and outperforms CEH in camp for the same role?  It's wishful thinking if we don't acknowledge that possibility.  
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Its wishful thinking to think Thompson isn’t more than an afterthought after the Chiefs used a first round pick at the position.

 
caustic said:
PFF statistical comps for CEH:

Kareem Hunt 98% similarity

Duke Johnson 96%

Giovani Bernard 95%

Joe Mixon 93%

Alvin Kamara 91%
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Good company. Really good player meeting amazing fit. His lateral agility is elite, his vision is amazing, and he can run routes and catch the football. With his draft capital he will play and in that offense he will produce. With the threat of Mahomes and the passing game he will have mucho space to operate. Andy got himself a new toy and he is going be fun to watch in that offense. Some will overthink it and that is fine. He is by far my 1.01 right now after day one. 

 
Wooters said:
I think we should call this the Rashad Penny effect.  Penny flew up draft boards because he was drafted at the end of the first round as well, and we all know how that turned out.  

And 18 touches a game?  You high or something?  I'll easily make you a sig bet on that under.  Sig can say anything, and must be up for 1 full calendar year.  Shoot, I'll be a sport and give you 17 touches per game.  
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Is it your contention that the Seahawks drafted Penny in the first not to use him?

Penny came into camp overweight and didn’t work hard. Carson did what he always has done and over-achieved and held Penny off. This past season Penny started looking good and then blew out his ACL.

Obviously CEH is not bust proof, but if you think the plan is for him to be a backup RB to middling talents that seems to be a weird stance to take.

 
Buckna said:
Indy has two picks in the top half of the 2nd round as well. Should be interesting if Taylor goes Indy, Swift or one of Akers/Dobbins goes to Tampa.
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Those would both be dream landing spots imo.  It would really increase the value of first round rookie dynasty picks for me.

 
Buckna said:
Indy has two picks in the top half of the 2nd round as well. Should be interesting if Taylor goes Indy, Swift or one of Akers/Dobbins goes to Tampa.
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Indy has other needs to address and Mack is a pretty good back. I just don't think it's likely that they take one of the next backs.

Wooters said:
No thanks for CEH at 1.01.  He's not getting any goal line carries.  KC throws the ball a ton.  He's going to split snaps with Williams.  He'll catch 2-4 balls a game with 6-8 carries mixed in.  I see Kareem Hunt numbers from last year as an absolute ceiling.  Not bad per say, but I want to shoot higher for the 1.01.  Plus, why is it a guarantee that he's even going to be better than Thompson?  A year under his belt, isn't it possible he comes to camp and outperforms CEH in camp for the same role?  It's wishful thinking if we don't acknowledge that possibility.  Go ahead and take CEH at 1.01 or 1.02, I'll be thrilled that the better talent dropped a few spots.
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:lol:

Wooters said:
Yeah great.  So he's compared to pass catching backs.  Wonderful.  I already said that I think his ceiling is Hunt's year from last year.  I think that's reasonable.  The dude isn't a 3 down workhorse RB, so just forget Hunt's rookie season numbers, along with Mixon and Kamara numbers.  Now Duke Johnson and Giovani Bernard?  Yeah, that seems about right.  You take him at 1.01.  I'll be happy.
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Ok, we get it. You think the chiefs took a back in the first to not utilize him fully. :shrug:

I'm not trying to say CEH is kamara or CMC, but he's easily the most talented back in KC. On a team with a very competent HC, on an offense which will get him space to work.  It's going to exciting in KC.  They didn't take him to be gio, they took him to be Westbrook 2.0

 
ACTUAL QUOTE

"We're extremely excited," GM Brett Veach said of the pick. "A few weeks ago when we were kind of putting the final touches on our board and looking at a group of players that we thought would be there, I remember talking to [Andy Reid] reminding him how much [Clyde Edwards-Helaire] reminds me of Brian Westbrook. Coach called back and after a few conversations he admitted he thought he was better than Brian."

HOW SOME INTERPRET (THE BELOW IS NOT THE ACTUAL QUOTE AND HAS BEEN ALTERED FOR EFFECT)

"We're not really that excited," GM Brett Veach said of the pick. "A few weeks ago when we were kind of putting the final touches on our board and looking at a group of players that we thought would be there, I remember talking to [Andy Reid] reminding him how much [Clyde Edwards-Helaire] reminds me of a pile of steamy garbage that would not be useful to this football team. Coach called back and after a few conversations he admitted he thought they should literally draft anyone else in the first round. And if they did draft CEH in the first round they would not use him at all and just wanted to solidify their 4th string running back spot."

 
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For those that watched him a lot, how is his blocking? 

Damian Williams is great in that regard, so hopefully new guy has that skill as well.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Its wishful thinking to think Thompson isn’t more than an afterthought after the Chiefs used a first round pick at the position.
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Agreed.  D Williams missed part of the season and McCoy was phased out over time, and Thompson still barely got on the field and got any touches.

 
ChiefD said:
For those that watched him a lot, how is his blocking? 

Damian Williams is great in that regard, so hopefully new guy has that skill as well.
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Glad to see DW is great at something. It sure isn't running with the ball. 

 
Wooters said:
Yeah great.  So he's compared to pass catching backs.  Wonderful.  I already said that I think his ceiling is Hunt's year from last year.  I think that's reasonable.  The dude isn't a 3 down workhorse RB, so just forget Hunt's rookie season numbers, along with Mixon and Kamara numbers.  Now Duke Johnson and Giovani Bernard?  Yeah, that seems about right.  You take him at 1.01.  I'll be happy.
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Those backs weren't used as 3 down workhorses either.  KC doesn't use a "workhorse" back per the typical usage.  They get their RB's the ball in space and since the field is spread due to their offense even when running between the tackles it isn't a typical front he is facing.  He is the perfect fit for how they use the RB and he will be the guy assuming he doesn't come in out of shape or start fumbling.  He will be given the shot to be the new Hunt and he has the skills to do just that. 

 
Wooters said:
The guys will be fighting for the same role.  For you (or anyone else) to refuse to acknowledge the POSSIBILITY that Thompson outperforms a rookie (regardless of draftpedigree) in camp is luancy and bias thinking.  It's not even logical.  No one is saying that it IS going to happen, I'm just saying that it MAY.  What a concept.  
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Last year Thompson didn't show us a lot when he was only competing with JAGs. There is a reason most are going to doubt he will keep CEH off the field. 

 
Wooters said:
You're right.  Hunt wasn't a 3 down workhorse when he had 272 carries and 63 receptions in 2017.  Got it.  
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The meaning is that he wasn't utilized as a typical 3 down workhorse with tons of inside the tackle work against 8 man fronts.  Carries in space do a lot less damage than typical carries up the gut.  The KC offense spreads the defense so much that the RB has a lot of space to work.  The carries are less punishing. CEH will be just fine in that role.

 
Wooters said:
The guys will be fighting for the same role.  For you (or anyone else) to refuse to acknowledge the POSSIBILITY that Thompson outperforms a rookie (regardless of draftpedigree) in camp is luancy and bias thinking.  It's not even logical.  No one is saying that it IS going to happen, I'm just saying that it MAY.  What a concept.  
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Ok - it's such a minor concern it's not worth mentioning. Damien Williams surely poses a threat to the rookie's playing time but Thompson was a seventh round pick that couldn't do anything last season even with Williams missing time. Thompson was a guy that got hyped on this board purely because of situation. With the drafting of CEH and the offseason signing of DeAndre Washington there's a better chance that Thompson is cut than him beating out CEH.

You mock draft capital but the NFL draft is a very efficient market. Ignoring it is what is lunacy.

 
I'm not in trouble if I agree with Wooters here, am I? I don't even think I'm being obdurate; my love of the runner is not based on anything but how effective that runner is. I don't see CEH as all that promising. He reminds me of a slow and less powerful Ray Rice.

I think any of the guys winding up in Tampa have already been christened the "three-down back" by Arians, and I see Brady playing at least two years, so that seems like the prime spot to me. I see CEH as a committee guy. 

 
Wooters said:
The guys will be fighting for the same role.  For you (or anyone else) to refuse to acknowledge the POSSIBILITY that Thompson outperforms a rookie (regardless of draftpedigree) in camp is luancy and bias thinking.  It's not even logical.  No one is saying that it IS going to happen, I'm just saying that it MAY.  What a concept.  
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Lots of things are possible. 

But it's far more likely that the chiefs will give their first round pick the opportunity to succeed. It's not like DW has a lengthy history of being a work horse.  Or even consistently good. 

 
Wooters said:
You think it matters where the run the ball to be considered a workhorse?  272 carries and 63 receptions.  He was on the field for almost 100% of the snaps in 2017.  You think CEH is going to sniff those numbers or be on the field for 90+% of snaps?
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For wear and tear purposes, yes I do.  CEH doesn't have to be on the field for 90% of the snaps to have the production worthy of the 1.01 pick in rookie drafts.  We get it.  You don't like him, better for you that many other's do.  You can trade back and get your preferred guy and let everyone else get burned. 

 
By the way, anyone that wants to come at Wooters can come at me, bro. He's just doing his Wooter thing, which I happen to agree with right now.

 
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Dr. Octopus said:
Ok - it's such a minor concern it's not worth mentioning. Damien Williams surely poses a threat to the rookie's playing time but Thompson was a seventh round pick that couldn't do anything last season even with Williams missing time. Thompson was a guy that got hyped on this board purely because of situation. With the drafting of CEH and the offseason signing of DeAndre Washington there's a better chance that Thompson is cut than him beating out CEH.

You mock draft capital but the NFL draft is a very efficient market. Ignoring it is what is lunacy.
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Agreed...KC knows what they are going...very good organization...drafting CEH was done with a definitive purpose and they aren't using a #1 on a RB unless they plan to use him a lot...this kid is gonna put up legit numbers...Thompson would have been a non-entity last year if he was almost anywhere but KC...that was the hook with him...in his limited time he showed close to nothing and that was with Damien Williams missing time...

 
rockaction said:
By the way, anyone that wants to come at Wooters can come at me, bro. He's just doing his Wooter thing, which I happen to agree with right now.
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:lol:

If the point is that we shouldn't expect CEH to be better than Jacobs or worthy of a first round overall dynasty pick, many of us will agree. 

But he's much more likely to be a mini version of Kamara than to get beat out by Thompson.

 
I seriously can't see hitting the 1.01 button on this guy because of situation. I fully don't believe in him as a back. Andy Reid knows way, way more than me. Dissonance ensues. 

 
-OZ- said:
:lol:

If the point is that we shouldn't expect CEH to be better than Jacobs or worthy of a first round overall dynasty pick, many of us will agree. 

But he's much more likely to be a mini version of Kamara than to get beat out by Thompson.
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Yeah, he's not getting beat out by Darwin Thompson. That's not happening.

 
rockaction said:
I seriously can't see hitting the 1.01 button on this guy because of situation. I fully don't believe in him as a back. Andy Reid knows way, way more than me. Dissonance ensues. 
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If he says he is better then Westbrook I could not be more in.

 
Swift is already heavily mocked to Miami. Tampa might be looking at FSU product Akers, who they should presumably know from mere locale. Then one really has a hard decision about the 1.01 and whether to draft talent or situation. Tough choices.

 
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-OZ- said:
Have you been impressed by Damien? 

He's been okay, a few nice games. But not someone irreplaceable.  I'd expect more from the RB on that offense.
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I drafted Damien in the third or fourth (I had the turn) of a Superflex last year and regretted it by Week Two. Damien isn't as bad as painted, and his pass pro is quite good, but he is easily hurt and always has been. 

 
rockaction said:
I seriously can't see hitting the 1.01 button on this guy because of situation. I fully don't believe in him as a back. Andy Reid knows way, way more than me. Dissonance ensues. 
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That really is the crux of the discussion.  Those that believed in CEH prior to the draft and thought he would be a solid NFL RB are now moving up significantly because he fell into the best possible situation.  So for those people you get the talent matched with opportunity and ideal system.  That makes him worthy of the 1.01.  It is not solely because of situation.

Those that didn't think he would be a worthy NFL back now will move CEH up some because he is in the best opportunity to succeed.  Doesn't mean he will and your expectations will be set accordingly. 

I see him as MJD in a great offense for his skill set in a position to excel for years to come.  He was the back I was targeting (as a late round drafter) hoping that people would let him fall.  That has all but dried up now and it sucks for me as a proponent that wanted to draft him.  I likely won't have that opportunity now.

 
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