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BigTex

Devy & Redraft: Clyde Edwards-Helaire: KC IT IS!!!

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1 minute ago, Gally said:

Why not?  I am not saying I am always right but the point of doing this is to come up with evaluations and play on them.  How else do you get bragging rights when you get it right?  That's half the fun.   If you aren't willing to do that you might as well not do any research and just pull the latest cheat sheet of the interwebz five minutes before the draft.

I think with rookies it is more challenging than a redraft per se. With rookies you have NFL scouts performing hours of game research, interviews, talking to staff/friends/family members....basically things that I cannot replicate or would want to try to replicate. So yes, I do way how the NFL evaluates quite a bit more than I do. Of course at that point you only really know how one team felt at the time of the pick, but I assume they put more effort into it than I did. 

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7 minutes ago, King of the Jungle said:

I think with rookies it is more challenging than a redraft per se. With rookies you have NFL scouts performing hours of game research, interviews, talking to staff/friends/family members....basically things that I cannot replicate or would want to try to replicate. So yes, I do way how the NFL evaluates quite a bit more than I do. Of course at that point you only really know how one team felt at the time of the pick, but I assume they put more effort into it than I did. 

Taking into account articles, etc from scouts and "experts" is part of doing your own evaluations.  As you stated, they have much more time and research so you do have to take their information as part of your evaluation.  That is all part of it.  I am not saying to watch game tape of every player and only go by your view.  Everything is a piece to the puzzle.  Then you make your choices based on all those pieces.   But you still have to gather info from all sources to do that then trust what you decide.

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13 minutes ago, Gally said:

Why not?  I am not saying I am always right but the point of doing this is to come up with evaluations and play on them.  How else do you get bragging rights when you get it right?  That's half the fun.   If you aren't willing to do that you might as well not do any research and just pull the latest cheat sheet of the interwebz five minutes before the draft.

Exactly this. Why bother if you're not going to use your own research and analysis, which will include an eye test at times. I think the real issue comes with when to give deference and when, say, a decade or longer of doing this gives you an advantage over others. 

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Posted (edited)

And maybe I was a little unclear. I do perform my amateur research and come up with a general ranking for rookies. However when it is close I tend to lean on the pro's as a deciding factor. 

*This was the only draft in recent history that I really felt puzzled about the top picks. I cannot remember going back and forth so much as I have this year. Maybe that is the quarantine talking though.  

Edited by King of the Jungle

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15 hours ago, Dr. BD said:

If KCs offense is really that amazing, how many times do we expect them to be playing from behind and needing to throw.

Do you think that KC is a team that's satisfied with sitting on a 3-point lead in the 2nd half? 

That offense doesn't have a low gear, they're always going to be pushing downfield and trying to make something happen, even when they are winning.

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1 hour ago, Vandelay said:

Exactly this and it's why I really don't like ranking rookies before the draft.  You tend to get locked into a line of thinking.

I agree with this and really there are only two reasons I bother with them at all. Mainly for those pre-NFL draft redraft leagues I do and a more minor reason is trying to get a handle on where I might want to trade up to or out of in drafts but that's always a crapshoot before the NFL draft.

 

1 hour ago, Vandelay said:

 

All CHE getting scooped by KC did for me is prevent me from being able to get him in a bunch of leagues.  I was none too pleased when the pick came in, though it was validating at least to receive confirmation that my evaluation was on point.

Very similar here as well. Was definition of bittersweet when KC grabbed him, I for sure had conflicting thoughts about it.

The good. The pre-NFL redrafts I mentioned.  I drafted him heavily, have thought he was the most underrated rookie RB this offseason.  These leagues were mainly really small Best Ball leagues but several were contests with big major prizes so he's made some teams of mine a lot more exciting lottery tickets. Was good because I had 1.1 in a league and CEH landing in KC blew away what I considered my pre-NFL draft best case type scenario were a RB I loved landing in a homerun spot and with a round one pedigree to top it off.

The bad was I had one pick at 1.1 but a host of picks in the 3-6 range and I had hoped he'd go someplace were he'd remain most peoples #4 or #5 RB and someone people might take Juedy or Lamb over him and I knew that was shot.

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1 minute ago, tangfoot said:

Do you think that KC is a team that's satisfied with sitting on a 3-point lead in the 2nd half? 

That offense doesn't have a low gear, they're always going to be pushing downfield and trying to make something happen, even when they are winning.

Plus, and this may sound small in grand scheme of things but you got to like the fact that 2 teams in KC's division, Raiders and Broncos, both have in so many words and ways indicated their approach is less on stopping KC's offense as it is trying to keep up with them or outscore them. This is 25% of your schedule with games that have heavy shootout potential before even factoring in the non divison and conference games.

And again that may seem small and factor zero in peoples decision  but while I'm not someone who puts Taylor on same tier as CEH if you are torn on the two it's the small stuff that might ultimately help you decide.  The offenses of the AFC South do not appear overly explosive and by and large seem more like slower tempo run dominated teams with Texans being only team in division Colts would face that seem to have ability to buck that trend but they've never been a pass heavy team.

So one guy has built in 25% of his games that look like on paper shootouts, the other guy has 25-38% of his built in games looking like slower tempo lower scoring games. That would matter to me if I had them close.

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17 hours ago, Dr. BD said:

What is interesting to me is a lot of guys gushing over his lateral agility, route running, hands, etc weren't saying this stuff 3 months, or even 3 weeks ago. It's his landing spot that gets everyone loving these things that havent changed since these guys had him ranked RB5 on their lists just 3 months ago. 

Put CEH on the Colts and I'm not sure hes even in the 1.01 conversation. That's telling IMO. Situations change on a dime. Hes tied to Mahomes for 5 years, but just 2 years ago Gurley looked like a good long term bet in the rams offense. In fact, all rams looked like dynasty buys.

To each their own; not trying to start a debate, just found it interesting that once he was a chief he suddenly had elite lateral agility, hands, etc. (some have been saying it for a while, but this bandwagon, fan club, future support group- whatever you want to call it- certainly got bigger all of a sudden)

The reality is people are subconsciously influenced by their expectations. When the talking heads say Swift is amazing and CEH is good, their interpretation of the ambiguity of what they are watching will drift in those directions.

With the endorsement of Reid/Mahomes, the expectations when watching CEH became sky high. The change in interpretation is no surprise

The skeptics out there can mitigate this preconceived bias to an extent, even flipping it the other way if they are antagonistic in nature.

If a talking head or two takes a strong early stance on a player, it can influence the other talking heads. The view spreads and even reinforces the original. It takes a vocal skeptic, or someone who doesn't listen to the chatter (basically a zero based review) to break out of it. Not that either is inherently correct. 

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Dr. BD said:

 

 

Edited by Futeki
Double post

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2 hours ago, Gally said:

I actually think the opposite.  If you can complete your evaluations of players independent of landing spot then you shouldn't get overly swayed because they landed in a good spot.  It can accentuate their value (as it has done for me and CEH) but if you didn't like CEH before the draft it shouldn't vault him to the top if you trust your evaluations of him. 

 

Landing spots should have some solidifying of your belief but it shouldn't change it completely.

I do a ton of research on the rookies predraft, but I dont go about the business of putting one above or below another one, unless its just obvious like Barkley was.  Landing spot is so critical to me for RBs that I'd rather just get a feel for the prospect, figure out strengths and weaknesses and athletic comps, then wait to see how they fit their team before I get an actual ranking.  I will take note of the consensus and compare my general feeling of the player to the rest of the community though and in this case I was much higher on CHE than most early on.

Now I'll tend to agree with you more on WRs.  I feel like with RBs the clock is ticking immediately and I want them to be valuable year 1 if I'm spending a high pick, whereas with WRs I'm more willing to be patient if I like the talent.  Just see RB as much more situationally dependant than WR in the NFL in general and their dynasty value more volatile as well.

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2 hours ago, rockaction said:

Exactly this. Why bother if you're not going to use your own research and analysis, which will include an eye test at times. I think the real issue comes with when to give deference and when, say, a decade or longer of doing this gives you an advantage over others. 

I draw a line at the end of round 3 and treat those players much differently, but if they meet that criteria I'm willing to shake my rankings up compared to NFL draft order.  Going in the top three rounds means the NFL likes you but I get the bonus of examining the drafting team from an outside perspective.  If you get drafted on day 3 though the odds are much longer and chances are I either wasn't on the prospect that much to begin with, or it was a huge drop like we saw with Hakeem Butler and I can just cross you off entirely.

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1 hour ago, Vandelay said:

I draw a line at the end of round 3 and treat those players much differently, but if they meet that criteria I'm willing to shake my rankings up compared to NFL draft order.  Going in the top three rounds means the NFL likes you but I get the bonus of examining the drafting team from an outside perspective.  If you get drafted on day 3 though the odds are much longer and chances are I either wasn't on the prospect that much to begin with, or it was a huge drop like we saw with Hakeem Butler and I can just cross you off entirely.

Oh no, don't get me wrong. I'm talking like Gally. I meant to take everything, including draft capital, into consideration when doing your evaluation, including your own eyes. 

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1 minute ago, Dr. BD said:

Isnt paragraph 1 completely contradicted by the bolded? 

Um, no?

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1 minute ago, Dr. BD said:

So you dont like the evaluate players before the draft, but you were happy to see your evaluation was spot on...

Evaluations and rankings are not the same thing.

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21 hours ago, Dr. BD said:

What is interesting to me is a lot of guys gushing over his lateral agility, route running, hands, etc weren't saying this stuff 3 months, or even 3 weeks ago. It's his landing spot that gets everyone loving these things that havent changed since these guys had him ranked RB5 on their lists just 3 months ago. 

Put CEH on the Colts and I'm not sure hes even in the 1.01 conversation. That's telling IMO. Situations change on a dime. Hes tied to Mahomes for 5 years, but just 2 years ago Gurley looked like a good long term bet in the rams offense. In fact, all rams looked like dynasty buys.

To each their own; not trying to start a debate, just found it interesting that once he was a chief he suddenly had elite lateral agility, hands, etc. (some have been saying it for a while, but this bandwagon, fan club, future support group- whatever you want to call it- certainly got bigger all of a sudden)

Personally I don't actually look at rookies until after the draft.  Sure I'll read up on what some people here and on some websites say, but I don't watch any highlights or go into any real depth until I've got a good idea of what kind of offense they're going to be a part of.  For instance, I didn't waste any time on Swift because I don't like Detroit and don't think they're ever going to have a quality run game.

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22 hours ago, Dr. BD said:

What is interesting to me is a lot of guys gushing over his lateral agility, route running, hands, etc weren't saying this stuff 3 months, or even 3 weeks ago.

Depends who you listen to but people were saying this stuff 3 months ago. I detailed this already in another thread, that fantasy people might have been slow on the take with him but most of the ex-NFL scouting community who now worked in the media have consistently had him as a top 3 RB months before the NFL draft.

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I have no doubt Reid will put CEH in a position to be successful, but I still have a hard time getting over his 4.6 40. It's a bit of an arbitrary cutoff as Westbrook ran a 4.57, but it's difficult to find runners who had great careers and ran that slow at the combine.

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Posted (edited)

been playing FF since the early 90's.....not a dynasty player (yet)....but I am a KC fan so have been checking this thread out....I realize CEH may not be your proto type RB like a Barkley or Zeke or whoever else you want to say.....but fantasy is about two things.... talent and opportunity....it seems like many are hung up on the talent side (compared to Taylor/proto type/whatever)....with Mahomes/Reid/KC system....that proto type is not a good fit....rarely will a RB in KC for the foreseeable future (as long as Mahomes is around) sniff 20 carries a game....KC drafted a back that perfectly fits the RPO hand off/fake hand off out of the shotgun that KC runs....he can catch and when given the ball has the shiftiness to gain chunk yards....but he is rarely going to get 20 carries.....(20 touches?....you bet....but not 20 carries)...so you kind of have to plant your flag somewhere and draw the line in the sand.....do you want that proto 20+ carry guy in a decent offense.....or the 15-20ish touch guy in an explosive offense.....there are different kinds of "bellcows"....and they look a lot different....CEH doesn't look like a proto type or play like one, or in a system that uses one....so if you are looking for that guy, you are barking up the wrong tree....but if you don't mind your bellcow having some different looking spots and you like RB's on Andy Reid teams that are going to be putting up 30+ points a week.....then he may be your guy....the Dwilly factor this year however... is real.....

Edited by Stinkin Ref
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1 hour ago, Stinkin Ref said:

been playing FF since the early 90's.....not a dynasty player (yet)....but I am a KC fan so have been checking this thread out....I realize CEH may not be your proto type RB like a Barkley or Zeke or whoever else you want to say.....but fantasy is about two things.... talent and opportunity....it seems like many are hung up on the talent side (compared to Taylor/proto type/whatever)....with Mahomes/Reid/KC system....that proto type is not a good fit....rarely will a RB in KC for the foreseeable future (as long as Mahomes is around) sniff 20 carries a game....KC drafted a back that perfectly fits the RPO hand off/fake hand off out of the shotgun that KC runs....he can catch and when given the ball has the shiftiness to gain chunk yards....but he is rarely going to get 20 carries.....(20 touches?....you bet....but not 20 carries)...so you kind of have to plant your flag somewhere and draw the line in the sand.....do you want that proto 20+ carry guy in a decent offense.....or the 15-20ish touch guy in an explosive offense.....there are different kinds of "bellcows"....and they look a lot different....CEH doesn't look like a proto type or play like one, or in a system that uses one....so if you are looking for that guy, you are barking up the wrong tree....but if you don't mind your bellcow having some different looking spots and you like RB's on Andy Reid teams that are going to be putting up 30+ points a week.....then he may be your guy....the Dwilly factor this year however... is real.....

That's precisely what I was thinking.  I'm an Aaron Jones owner that enjoyed his monster 125 yd, 3 td games but also mourned over his pitiful weeks.  I sort of view CEH similar to Jones in that he's great at catching the ball on a team with an athletic/mobile qb and I don't want another.  For me, I want a 20+ carry back to complement my Jones.  Perhaps for some it's less about the comparison of CEH and JT than it is which one fits your team mold the best, like myself.

 

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Chiefs offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy said first-round rookie RB Clyde Edwards-Helaire has "some special traits."

Bieniemy continues, "We know one thing that that kid is going to do: He is going to come in and work his tail off. Now, he’s just going to be a piece of the puzzle." The offensive coordinator then mentions Damien Williams and the other backs as mentors to Edwards-Helaire. The LSU star should open the year as a passing-down back but has the upside for more. One concern among analysts is Edwards-Helaire's pass blocking. Bieniemy addressed that issue, "He does have the attitude and the mindset to get it done, so I’m not concerned with that." Edwards-Helaire remains a boom-bust early round fantasy selection.

SOURCE: chiefs.com

May 19, 2020, 7:24 PM ET

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On 5/14/2020 at 8:55 AM, floods said:

I have no doubt Reid will put CEH in a position to be successful, but I still have a hard time getting over his 4.6 40. It's a bit of an arbitrary cutoff as Westbrook ran a 4.57, but it's difficult to find runners who had great careers and ran that slow at the combine.

You're kidding right? What's a slow 40? The 40 time has been proven to been the most overrated metric in scouting since............well ever! CEH has a skill that hasn't been seen since Emmitt and Barry. I'm not saying he's either of these guys as the are generational players in their own right. But if you are judging a player off of his 40 time................good luck with that!

Tex

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On 5/13/2020 at 7:13 PM, King of the Jungle said:

I will just add CEH destroys Taylor in the ball security category as well.

I don't believe he's ever dropped a catch-able pass either and that fact that he never fumbled in his college career we can certainly say the above about all the running backs in this class.

Tex

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1 hour ago, Faust said:

Article sums up the problem.

Kid could be a league winner.  But if you're drafting him in the 2nd or 3rd round--you're only getting value if he hits his ceiling.  And he may not hit it this year. 

KC RB's ran the ball right around 300 times last season.  Damien Williams was effective and isn't gone.  I can easily see a split of 180-120 or even 150/150.  And while CEH could win your league with 300 touches--he is going to have a hard time living up to a 2nd or 3rd round pick with 200.  

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2 hours ago, BigTex said:

You're kidding right? What's a slow 40? The 40 time has been proven to been the most overrated metric in scouting since............well ever! CEH has a skill that hasn't been seen since Emmitt and Barry. I'm not saying he's either of these guys as the are generational players in their own right. But if you are judging a player off of his 40 time................good luck with that!

Tex

Alright, let's expand the metrics we look at then.

Player 1:
5'8.75", 205lbs 
40 - 4.60s @ 17.78 mph
20 yd split - 2.68s
10 yd split - 1.60s
Bench - 24 reps
Vert - 42.5"
Broad Jump - 130"

Player 2:
5'8", 205lbs
40 - 4.60s @ 17.78 mph
20 yd split - 2.68s
10 yd split - 1.60s
Bench - 15 reps
Vert - 39.5"
Broad Jump - 123"

 

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Not too worried about his long speed, he is not really a home run threat and that is fine. I just hope he has enough speed to consistently get to the edge against NFL athletes. That is really my main concern about his game.

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1 hour ago, King of the Jungle said:

Andy is going to put him positions to succeed. Hunt was a 4.66 forty, although he had more power.

Agreed, I'm not sure why people get so hung up on 40 times. CEH plays faster on the field, he can lineup anywhere on the field, he can make the 1st two or three people miss then run over the next five or six. All anyone has to do is go back and look at that Alabama game, just like Mahommes said this guy plays big in big games, he shows up.

Tex

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, floods said:

Alright, let's expand the metrics we look at then.

Player 1:
5'8.75", 205lbs 
40 - 4.60s @ 17.78 mph
20 yd split - 2.68s
10 yd split - 1.60s
Bench - 24 reps
Vert - 42.5"
Broad Jump - 130"

Player 2:
5'8", 205lbs
40 - 4.60s @ 17.78 mph
20 yd split - 2.68s
10 yd split - 1.60s
Bench - 15 reps
Vert - 39.5"
Broad Jump - 123"

 

Ok my friend, let's talk about it, tell me what this means to you and I'll give my response.

Tex

Edited by BigTex

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5 minutes ago, BigTex said:

Agreed, I'm not sure why people get so hung up on 40 times. CEH plays faster on the field, he can lineup anywhere on the field, he can make the 1st two or three people miss then run over the next five or six. All anyone has to do is go back and look at that Alabama game, just like Mahommes said this guy plays big in big games, he shows up.

Tex

I go back and forth on how much upside I think CEH has though. Hunt was a much more powerful runner but I think CEH can make up a little of that ground with his lateral agility. CEH is also a great route runner which will give Reid a lot of options to get creative. He will either have to catch a lot more passes or hit on touchdowns. I don’t see him getting anywhere near as many yards on the ground as Hunt did as the heart of this team will continue to run through Mahomes arm.

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I think Hunt’s partial 2018 season is a better projection of what CEH’s upside can be. Hunt averaged close to 21/ppg in ppr. However about 7.5/ppg of those points came from touchdowns. This is the concerning part for me. Hunt runs with a lot more power and that makes a difference when it comes to touchdowns especially around the goaline. Again, either CEH will have to catch a lot more passes than Hunt did or somehow keep up with his previous touchdown consistency. 

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15 minutes ago, King of the Jungle said:

I think Hunt’s partial 2018 season is a better projection of what CEH’s upside can be. Hunt averaged close to 21/ppg in ppr. However about 7.5/ppg of those points came from touchdowns. This is the concerning part for me. Hunt runs with a lot more power and that makes a difference when it comes to touchdowns especially around the goaline. Again, either CEH will have to catch a lot more passes than Hunt did or somehow keep up with his previous touchdown consistency. 

I think you are way underestimating how much power this guy has. He runs through arm tackles like a horse through paper. Even when players square up to hit him they either grab air or get ran over. If it's not a team tackle then it's a failed attempt and a spot on ESPN highlights.

Tex

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58 minutes ago, BigTex said:
4 hours ago, floods said:

Alright, let's expand the metrics we look at then.

Player 1:
5'8.75", 205lbs 
40 - 4.60s @ 17.78 mph
20 yd split - 2.68s
10 yd split - 1.60s
Bench - 24 reps
Vert - 42.5"
Broad Jump - 130"

Player 2:
5'8", 205lbs
40 - 4.60s @ 17.78 mph
20 yd split - 2.68s
10 yd split - 1.60s
Bench - 15 reps
Vert - 39.5"
Broad Jump - 123"

 

Ok my friend, let's talk about it, tell me what this means to you and I'll give my response.

Tex

Player 1 has to be Ameer Abdullah. Honestly my own overhyping of Abdullah and the similarity in his profile and CEH's has me very wary of CEH's potential. Of course, one is going into the top offense in the NFL and the other went to the NFL's RB Siberia.

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4 minutes ago, BigTex said:

I think you are way underestimating how much power this guy has. He runs through arm tackles like a horse through paper. Even when players square up to hit him they either grab air or get ran over. If it's not a team tackle then it's a failed attempt and a spot on ESPN highlights.

Tex

Admittedly, I am only watching highlights and he seems to go down pretty easily at times. He had a couple runs against Alabama that he took it to them and one pile pusher with help of his lineman. But I just don’t think he generates a ton of power consistently. I do think it is to his benefit to be on the shorter side because it is harder to get a reach on him which allows him to slip through some tackles. I went back and watched some old MJD highlights and boy that guy packed a punch for his size, I just don’t see the same with CEH. Now that is not to say he doesn’t run with effort...he sure as heck does...I just don’t see the same power. But love hearing others perspective as we are all just trying to figure it out.

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7 minutes ago, mcintyre1 said:

Player 1 has to be Ameer Abdullah. Honestly my own overhyping of Abdullah and the similarity in his profile and CEH's has me very wary of CEH's potential. Of course, one is going into the top offense in the NFL and the other went to the NFL's RB Siberia.

I loved Abdullah coming out of Nebraska and to me this is a great comparison. And ended with a great point about landing spots. 

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22 minutes ago, King of the Jungle said:

I loved Abdullah coming out of Nebraska and to me this is a great comparison. And ended with a great point about landing spots. 

Also Abdullah probably played at 195 rather than 205, which explains a bit of why CEH looks like he has a little more meat on his bones in college highlights. I'd wager he played at 205ish last season and it definitely contributed to him looking a bit better as a "power" runner, IMO.

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59 minutes ago, BigTex said:

I think you are way underestimating how much power this guy has. He runs through [college] arm tackles like a horse through paper. Even when [college] players square up to hit him they either grab air or get ran over. If it's not a [college] team tackle then it's a failed attempt and a spot on [Saturday] ESPN highlights.

Tex

FTFY

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2 hours ago, mcintyre1 said:

Player 1 has to be Ameer Abdullah. Honestly my own overhyping of Abdullah and the similarity in his profile and CEH's has me very wary of CEH's potential. Of course, one is going into the top offense in the NFL and the other went to the NFL's RB Siberia.

The first player I thought of was Ameer Abdullah, and I distinctly remember the hype around his burst and downplaying of his 40. As good as CEH can be in the KC offense his value is tied to it and not his pure physical talent. He certainly has a better shot than AA did, and as a Chiefs fan I hope he's closer to Westbrook than AA. It will also be interesting to see if Swift succeeds or falls prey to the Lions RB curse.

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3 hours ago, King of the Jungle said:

Admittedly, I am only watching highlights and he seems to go down pretty easily at times. He had a couple runs against Alabama that he took it to them and one pile pusher with help of his lineman. But I just don’t think he generates a ton of power consistently. I do think it is to his benefit to be on the shorter side because it is harder to get a reach on him which allows him to slip through some tackles. I went back and watched some old MJD highlights and boy that guy packed a punch for his size, I just don’t see the same with CEH. Now that is not to say he doesn’t run with effort...he sure as heck does...I just don’t see the same power. But love hearing others perspective as we are all just trying to figure it out.

That's more than fair but I don't see many that come out with the same punch the MJD. I can name maybe one in the last five years???? Barkley?

Tex

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3 hours ago, King of the Jungle said:

I loved Abdullah coming out of Nebraska and to me this is a great comparison. And ended with a great point about landing spots. 

I wasn't a big fan, I never saw what others did.

Tex

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2 hours ago, mcintyre1 said:

Also Abdullah probably played at 195 rather than 205, which explains a bit of why CEH looks like he has a little more meat on his bones in college highlights. I'd wager he played at 205ish last season and it definitely contributed to him looking a bit better as a "power" runner, IMO.

His legs are like tree trunks.

Tex

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45 minutes ago, floods said:

The first player I thought of was Ameer Abdullah, and I distinctly remember the hype around his burst and downplaying of his 40. As good as CEH can be in the KC offense his value is tied to it and not his pure physical talent. He certainly has a better shot than AA did, and as a Chiefs fan I hope he's closer to Westbrook than AA. It will also be interesting to see if Swift succeeds or falls prey to the Lions RB curse.

If Andy says he looks better than Westbrook that's saying something. I certainly don't see the comparison to Ameer, I just don't see it. Tomorrow I will try to paint the picture from my view as to why I like CEH. But I had CEH ranked 2 and 3 (I was going back and forth) before the draft. I had Taylor ahead of him and it was close between CEH and Swift so I already thought highly of him so now that he's on a great offense that did it for me.

Until tomorrow.

Tex

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1 hour ago, floods said:

The first player I thought of was Ameer Abdullah, and I distinctly remember the hype around his burst and downplaying of his 40. As good as CEH can be in the KC offense his value is tied to it and not his pure physical talent. He certainly has a better shot than AA did, and as a Chiefs fan I hope he's closer to Westbrook than AA. It will also be interesting to see if Swift succeeds or falls prey to the Lions RB curse.

I don't remember - could Abdullah catch the ball? Because that's a huge selling point for CEH

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Posted (edited)

Abdullah can catch, but Abdullah never had the natural power or leg drive of CEH.

I liked Abdullah a lot, but CEH is more prototypical. I think he's going to be good.

I'm watching some Justin Jefferson game cuts and you can't help but notice how good CEH is.

Edited by EBF
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3 hours ago, BigTex said:

That's more than fair but I don't see many that come out with the same punch the MJD. I can name maybe one in the last five years???? Barkley?

Tex

Agree, maybe I am trying too hard to find the negatives.

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I was starting to second guess taking him in my PPR dynasty. Was thinking I should have taken my man-crush Lamb instead.

So I went back to watch some highlights of CEH. I know it's ridiculous to compare rookies to all time bests, but all I'm reminded of is Barry Sanders. His shiftiness is ridiculous. And how the heck was he timed at only 4.6 at the combine? His play speed is way faster than that.

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

I was starting to second guess taking him in my PPR dynasty. Was thinking I should have taken my man-crush Lamb instead.

So I went back to watch some highlights of CEH. I know it's ridiculous to compare rookies to all time bests, but all I'm reminded of is Barry Sanders. His shiftiness is ridiculous. And how the heck was he timed at only 4.6 at the combine? His play speed is way faster than that.

Some guys just don't get the track technique (from the blocks) down properly. He does not look slow on the field at all and the SEC has many pro level defenders.

Edited by Dr. Octopus
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47 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

I was starting to second guess taking him in my PPR dynasty. Was thinking I should have taken my man-crush Lamb instead.

So I went back to watch some highlights of CEH. I know it's ridiculous to compare rookies to all time bests, but all I'm reminded of is Barry Sanders. His shiftiness is ridiculous. And how the heck was he timed at only 4.6 at the combine? His play speed is way faster than that.

Careful there Andy -- I said the same thing about Abdullah and I still regret it :D

To focus back on CEH, though, I do agree with EBF that Clyde has shown a much better functional power in his game than Abdullah ever did, which could be key to his success. On tape and by the numbers, though, Clyde and Ameer are very, very similar. Another comp would be Devonta Freeman if we're looking for a more successful version of Ameer. Clyde could be a great fantasy player in that offense, but I have to say I just don't see any comparisons to a guy like Saquon. That's a true once in a generation combination of everything you'd want in a runner, while guys like CEH have a lot of great attributes while missing some pretty important ones too.

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