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JohnnyU

As Commish, I'm finally on board with potential points for draft slots in dynasty

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I just posted this in the 3 leagues I commish:

 

I must say I've resisted this, but it would make my job a lot easier if I didn't have to worry about tanking.  In the off-season I will call a vote to use POTENTIAL POINTS (reverse order) for draft slots for non-playoff teams for the 2021 draft.  You still cannot start players on a bye, but I won't have to worry about teams trying to tank for a better draft position.  The downside to PP for draft slots is that teams can rid their bench of middling players, but still good players, in order to help their draft position.   I like to go out for breakfast on Sunday morning with my family instead of monitoring teams who start scrubs for studs or start players who are out.  I know this isn't perfect and I will still have to monitor teams starting scrubs for studs, but I'm hoping this reduces it to some degree.

 

Edited by JohnnyU

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Sorry for the multiple edits, I meant potential points.  I'm new to this, but I think it helps the commish and tanking to some degree.

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9 minutes ago, Tool said:

Use a weighted lottery. Also penalize for tanking. 

Tanking should be allowed. If a team determines losing is their best course of action and they pay....why do teams care?

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Just now, tdmills said:

Tanking should be allowed. If a team determines losing is their best course of action and they pay....why do teams care?

Seriously?

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5 minutes ago, tdmills said:

Tanking should be allowed. If a team determines losing is their best course of action and they pay....why do teams care?

Because it threatens the integrity of the league, with both playoff implications and draft slot. 

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1 minute ago, Tool said:

Seriously?

Yes. All of these rules are in place to "govern" a thing that people can all get around.

Potential points = they trade away productive players that aren't in the rebuild

Wins = Did they start the best players or not

 

Don't put commishes in that position.

 

The only people that want to see bad teams win are the teams in the playoffs or borderline playoffs teams. All the while a win, doesn't help the bad team. If they pay and it's not colluding, I don't see the issue.

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Just now, tdmills said:

Yes. All of these rules are in place to "govern" a thing that people can all get around.

Potential points = they trade away productive players that aren't in the rebuild

Wins = Did they start the best players or not

 

Don't put commishes in that position.

 

The only people that want to see bad teams win are the teams in the playoffs or borderline playoffs teams. All the while a win, doesn't help the bad team. If they pay and it's not colluding, I don't see the issue.

I don’t believe your post is real have to be trolling 

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1 minute ago, tdmills said:

Yes. All of these rules are in place to "govern" a thing that people can all get around.

Potential points = they trade away productive players that aren't in the rebuild

Wins = Did they start the best players or not

 

Don't put commishes in that position.

 

The only people that want to see bad teams win are the teams in the playoffs or borderline playoffs teams. All the while a win, doesn't help the bad team. If they pay and it's not colluding, I don't see the issue.

League integrity is at stake.  Playoff spots are at stake.  Not to mention the draft slots.

Edited by JohnnyU

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Just now, JohnnyU said:

Because it threatens the integrity of the league, with both playoff implications and draft slot. 

Integrity = quality of being honest

 

People tank in sneaky ways already. What i'm proposing has more integrity because you're not telling someone to do not in their best interest.

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6 minutes ago, tdmills said:

Tanking should be allowed. If a team determines losing is their best course of action and they pay....why do teams care?

This is a terrible take. I care for a couple reasons. Number one, you may have beat me in week 1 when you thought your team had a chance. Now in week 10 or 11 or 12, you’re going to give wins away to teams that might be competing for playoff position? Bush league.

Secondly, the draft is meant to help the worst teams first. A team that should take six or seventh in the league has no business “winning” the first pick. It won’t take too long before you have four or five teams tanking before the season even starts. Who wants to be a part of that?

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1 minute ago, Tool said:

I don’t believe your post is real have to be trolling 

I've wrote articles on it in the past....

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2 minutes ago, tdmills said:

I've wrote articles on it in the past....

That can’t be possible 

articles for who?

Edited by Tool

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3 minutes ago, Cjw_55106 said:

This is a terrible take. I care for a couple reasons. Number one, you may have beat me in week 1 when you thought your team had a chance. Now in week 10 or 11 or 12, you’re going to give wins away to teams that might be competing for playoff position? Bush league.

Secondly, the draft is meant to help the worst teams first. A team that should take six or seventh in the league has no business “winning” the first pick. It won’t take too long before you have four or five teams tanking before the season even starts. Who wants to be a part of that?

1) This can happen if a team loses games midseason and decides to rebuild anyway. Is that bush league?....how dare they trade players away and other teams don't face the same exact team I played!

how about their best player gets injured or suspended or a bye week...but you had to play against him. Is that bush league?

 

2) You wouldn't want 4 or 5 free wins when everyone is paying money...yeah sounds terrible.

 

 

Edited by tdmills

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Just now, tdmills said:

1) This can happen if a team loses games midseason and decides to rebuild anyway. Is that bush league?....how dare they trade players away and other teams don't face the same exact team I played!

how about their best player gets injured or suspended or a bye week...but you had to play against him. Is that bush league?

 

You wouldn't want 4 or 5 free wins when everyone is paying money...yeah sounds terrible.

 

 

If you don’t see the difference, there’s no reason to continue this conversation.

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1 minute ago, Cjw_55106 said:

If you don’t see the difference, there’s no reason to continue this conversation.

You sound very open to new ideas

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Just now, tdmills said:

You sound very open to new ideas

It's not perfect, but it's better than teams starting players who are out, or starting scrubs in place of studs.  Yes, teams can rid their bench of players who are very good, but not great, but I'm fine with that.  If that's the way they want to tank, at least they are putting players on their bench with future potential, or are adding draft picks.  After all, the whole idea of draft slots in dynasty is for bad teams to get better.

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1 minute ago, JohnnyU said:

It's not perfect, but it's better than teams starting players who are out, or starting scrubs in place of studs.  Yes, teams can rid their bench of players who are very good, but not great, but I'm fine with that.  If that's the way they want to tank, at least they are putting players on their bench with future potential, or are adding draft picks.  After all, the whole idea of draft slots in dynasty is for bad teams to get better.

In the end, I think it's basically the same thing. But it creates less work for commishes...lets just point out the elephant in the room...and now teams don't have to trade away any players they think might be useful in the future.

 

It's really a horse a piece...but this whole Tanking is evil thing is ridiculous because so many owners do it "legally" but we don't want to actually talk about it.

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9 minutes ago, tdmills said:

You sound very open to new ideas

Not sure how you got that out of my post? If by new ideas, you mean it would be fun to play in a league where half the teams are tanking, I guess you’re right. I would have zero interest in that.

Edited by Cjw_55106

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1 minute ago, Cjw_55106 said:

Not sure how you got that out of my post? If by new ideas, you mean it would be fun to play in a league where half the teams are tanking, I guess you’re right. I would have zero interest in that.

Nothing like going to extremes to view an idea

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6 minutes ago, tdmills said:

In the end, I think it's basically the same thing. But it creates less work for commishes...lets just point out the elephant in the room...and now teams don't have to trade away any players they think might be useful in the future.

 

It's really a horse a piece...but this whole Tanking is evil thing is ridiculous because so many owners do it "legally" but we don't want to actually talk about it.

Better than having to monitor teams on Sunday morning (with the exception of starting players on a bye, which I still won't allow).  I don't know about you but I have better things to do with my Sunday morning.  I like going out for breakfast.

Edited by JohnnyU

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1 minute ago, JohnnyU said:

Better than having to monitor teams on Sunday morning (with the exception of starting players on a bye, which I still won't allow).  I don't know about you but I have better things to do with my Sunday morning.  I like going out for breakfast.

I think we're actually agreeing here

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5 minutes ago, tdmills said:

I think we're actually agreeing here

Are we?  Didn't you post just letting teams tank is OK?  That would include starting scrubs over studs and not playing attention when players are OUT?  At least this would fix those two problems.  If teams want to rid their bench for future prospects, either young players or draft picks, I'm fine with that.  Again, the whole purpose of draft slots for dynasty is to improve bad teams.

Edited by JohnnyU

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7 minutes ago, tdmills said:

Nothing like going to extremes to view an idea

It’s not extreme at all. If you were one of the 4 to 6 teams that wasn’t in a position to make the playoffs, why wouldn’t you tank if it was OK?

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1 minute ago, JohnnyU said:

Are we?  Didn't you post just letting teams tank is OK?  That would include starting scrubs overt studs and not playing attention when players are OUT?  At least this would fix those two problems.  If teams want to rid their bench for future prospects, either young players or draft picks, I'm fine with that.  Again, the whole purpose of draft slots for dynasty is to improve bad teams.

We're both discussing less work for commisioners. It's a thankless job. We shouldn't make them be the judge and jury when they should be going out to breakfast on Sundays.

If they trade the players for future draft picks, players, etc or they just say....hey guys i'm tanking. Not really a difference outside of one scenario they actually hurt their future prospects by accidentally winning.

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3 minutes ago, Cjw_55106 said:

It’s not extreme at all. If you were one of the 4 to 6 teams that wasn’t in a position to make the playoffs, why wouldn’t you tank if it was OK?

I guess I could add to that, tanking in the right way.  If ridding your bench of players you don't want in order to fill it with prospects, whether young players already in the NFL, or draft picks, then in my mind that is OK.  No one is going to drop a very good player.  They might try harder to trade certain players on their bench for draft pics.  Again, OK.

Edited by JohnnyU

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1 minute ago, Cjw_55106 said:

It’s not extreme at all. If you were one of the 4 to 6 teams that wasn’t in a position to make the playoffs, why wouldn’t you tank if it was OK?

You think 6 of 12 teams tank from the outset? That would be odd if 6 make the playoffs.

 

If you're saying teams try to lose once they're eliminated...this happens organically through cutting or trading of veterans that won't help them in their future.

 

Would those teams benefit winning any games after they've been eliminated from playoff contention?

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1 minute ago, tdmills said:

You think 6 of 12 teams tank from the outset? That would be odd if 6 make the playoffs.

 

If you're saying teams try to lose once they're eliminated...this happens organically through cutting or trading of veterans that won't help them in their future.

 

Would those teams benefit winning any games after they've been eliminated from playoff contention?

If 6 teams try to tank from the outset then I'm folding the league and moving on.

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Just now, JohnnyU said:

If 6 teams try to tank from the outset then I'm folding the league and moving on.

That would be beyond crazy.

 

I think a systematic approach could be formed and still could be fun. But we just call a spade a spade. Make it easier on a commish.

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3 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I guess I could add to that, tanking in the right way.  If ridding your bench of players you don't want in order to fill it with prospects, whether young players already in the NFL, or draft picks, then in my mind that is OK.  No one is going to drop a very good player.  They might try harder to trade certain players on their bench for draft pics.  Again, OK.

 

2 minutes ago, tdmills said:

You think 6 of 12 teams tank from the outset? That would be odd if 6 make the playoffs.

 

If you're saying teams try to lose once they're eliminated...this happens organically through cutting or trading of veterans that won't help them in their future.

 

Would those teams benefit winning any games after they've been eliminated from playoff contention?

I don’t consider it tanking if you are trying to better your team through roster moves. This would include adding younger prospects or trading for draft picks. To me, tanking is when you purposely don’t start your best available lineup. 

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2 minutes ago, Cjw_55106 said:

 

I don’t consider it tanking if you are trying to better your team through roster moves. This would include adding younger prospects or trading for draft picks. To me, tanking is when you purposely don’t start your best available lineup. 

We agree.

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1 minute ago, Cjw_55106 said:

 

I don’t consider it tanking if you are trying to better your team through roster moves. This would include adding younger prospects or trading for draft picks. To me, tanking is when you purposely don’t start your best available lineup. 

Would obtaining the best draft pick possible be bettering your team if you're out of the playoffs?

 

 

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3 minutes ago, tdmills said:

Would obtaining the best draft pick possible be bettering your team if you're out of the playoffs?

 

 

uh......yes.  But benching studs for scrubs or not replacing players who are OUT is not the way to do it.  As a commish I don't want to deal with that.  Like I said, I want to go out for breakfast on Sunday morning with my family.

Edited by JohnnyU

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1 minute ago, tdmills said:

Would obtaining the best draft pick possible be bettering your team if you're out of the playoffs?

 

 

It’s not an either or. You have to do that while at the same time trying to field the best team you possibly can.

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1 minute ago, JohnnyU said:

uh......yes.  But benching studs for scrubs or not replacing players who are OUT is not the way to do it.

Why? 

The point is to change the rule to allow it. Then it is an option. Which would stop with all the "rules" which people get around anyway.

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1 minute ago, tdmills said:

You think 6 of 12 teams tank from the outset? That would be odd if 6 make the playoffs.

If you're saying teams try to lose once they're eliminated...this happens organically through cutting or trading of veterans that won't help them in their future.

Would those teams benefit winning any games after they've been eliminated from playoff contention?

Big difference between a team legitimately rebuilding and just trotting out the worst line-up possible.

Some feel that you have an obligation to your league mates to play competitively.  If drawing a draft position a slot or two higher is so important that you would lose on purpose for self interest, then there isn't much to say.  Good luck with your crap shoot draft pick and hopefully someone will repay the favor of tossing a game or two to your competition some day.

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1 minute ago, Cjw_55106 said:

It’s not an either or. You have to do that while at the same time trying to field the best team you possibly can.

You didn't answer the question.

Also you only HAVE to do this if it's a rule. 

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1 minute ago, tdmills said:

Why? 

The point is to change the rule to allow it. Then it is an option. Which would stop with all the "rules" which people get around anyway.

I think I've made myself clear in previous posts, so I won't elaborate on this.  Please read my previous posts.

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1 minute ago, DropKick said:

Big difference between a team legitimately rebuilding and just trotting out the worst line-up possible.

Some feel that you have an obligation to your league mates to play competitively.  If drawing a draft position a slot or two higher is so important that you would lose on purpose for self interest, then there isn't much to say.  Good luck with your crap shoot draft pick and hopefully someone will repay the favor of tossing a game or two to your competition some day.

You have an obligation to accidentally help teams by winning games you don't want to win in a league you pay $$$ for?

 

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This thread is ridiculously polarized. 

I play in some capitalist pigs leagues where tanking is allowed.  Bad teams tank.  It's no big deal at all.   You do have to start active players.  No bye weeks or injured guys. 

There are tons of ways to prevent tanking. 

Potential points is one way... 

Head to head is kinda stupid.  It's totally random.  If H2H is minimized or eliminated, tanking is no big deal.  Victory Points is good. 

Trading away players who are producing is by definition NOT tanking.  That's so ridiculously absurd. 

 

Edited by kittenmittens

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1 minute ago, tdmills said:

You didn't answer the question.

Also you only HAVE to do this if it's a rule. 

Every league I’m in has a no tanking rule.
While I perhaps didn’t answer the question directly, I think it’s obvious where I stand. Yes obtaining a higher draft pick is the best way to make your team better in the future but I do not agree with doing it in the manner you suggest. With your way of thinking, why even post a starting lineup?

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Just now, tdmills said:

You have an obligation to accidentally help teams by winning games you don't want to win in a league you pay $$$ for?

 

We're talking about draft slots here with potential points, not whether you win the game with your starting lineup.  The whole point behind this is to eliminate teams starting scrubs for starters and not replacing players who are out when it comes to draft slot.

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Just now, Cjw_55106 said:

Every league I’m in has a no tanking rule.
While I perhaps didn’t answer the question directly, I think it’s obvious where I stand. Yes obtaining a higher draft pick is the best way to make your team better in the future but I do not agree with doing it in the manner you suggest. With your way of thinking, why even post a starting lineup?

Correct...99% of leagues are currently set up this way.

 

Do you care to hear about an alternative method by asking questions instead of disagreeing without hearing all of it?

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2 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

This thread is ridiculously polarized. 

I play in some capitalist pigs leagues where tanking is allowed.  Bad teams tank.  It's no big deal at all.   You do have to start active players.  No bye weeks or injured guys. 

There are tons of ways to prevent tanking. 

Potential points is one way... 

Head to head is kinda stupid.  It's totally random.  If H2H is minimized or eliminated, tanking is no big deal.  Victory Points is good. 

Trading away players who are producing is by definition NOT tanking.  That's so ridiculously absurd. 

 

I agree with the bolding.

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1 minute ago, JohnnyU said:

We're talking about draft slots here with potential points, not whether you win the game with your starting lineup.  The whole point behind this is to eliminate teams starting scrubs for starters and not replacing players who are out when it comes to draft slot.

Is it worse for teams to trade away a productive bench player they might or might not have a future use for because of potential points.....or call a spade a spade and say they're tanking for a higher pick?

This is the main disagreement we have in my mind.

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3 minutes ago, tdmills said:

Is it worse for teams to trade away a productive bench player they might or might not have a future use for because of potential points.....or call a spade a spade and say they're tanking for a higher pick?

This is the main disagreement we have in my mind.

I think I've already answered this in a previous post.

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2 minutes ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

You can gut your roster for future assets, but the league is screwed if people don't start their best players. 

I would always require this.  Letting teams gut their bench is an option for their tanking and I'm alright with that, but otherwise require teams not to bench their studs for scrubs or start players who are out.  I'm hoping this would lessen the this to some degree.  Like I said, this isn't perfect, but it is one step in the right direction IMO and could help out the commish a little bit.

Edited by JohnnyU

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I think those battling for draft position, would follow each other’s moves. Draft position is that important

we have rule that you put in guys that are out, we give warning. Things happen. Bye weeks are not tolerated and go to step 2

once warning and happens again, you are penalized 5 spots. If already traded picks, they are not penalized

third warning. Drop to bottom of draft

4th warning is get rid of the owner as he obviously cares nothing about league

As commish, I look every once in a while but I know the guys battling for drat spot are doing it. 

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