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JohnnyU

As Commish, I'm finally on board with potential points for draft slots in dynasty

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Just now, Crippler said:

I think those battling for draft position, would follow each other’s moves. Draft position is that important

we have rule that you put in guys that are out, we give warning. Things happen. Bye weeks are not tolerated and go to step 2

once warning and happens again, you are penalized 5 spots. If already traded picks, they are not penalized

third warning. Drop to bottom of draft

4th warning is get rid of the owner as he obviously cares nothing about league

As commish, I look every once in a while but I know the guys battling for drat spot are doing it. 

As commish I won't allow it on Sunday morning at all.  If someone benches Barkley for Jalen Richards I will correct it.  If someone has a player who is out I will find a player on their bench to replace that player if possible.  I'm hoping this rule change will reduce this to some degree.  I know it isn't perfect, but it's better than the current situation where I sit and monitor this and have to make changes (mostly when players are out).

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12 minutes ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

You can gut your roster for future assets, but the league is screwed if people don't start their best players. 

Explain how one is okay and the other screws the league? The opponent benefits the same from both scenarios

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6 minutes ago, tdmills said:

Explain how one is okay and the other screws the league? The opponent benefits the same from both scenarios

If I have an aging veteran that is still producing, I would let the league know that I am interested in moving him for draft picks. After all, it benefits me if everyone knows I want to move a guy rather than just dealing with one owner. At that point, all teams have the opportunity to trade for said player. If I am approached unsolicited for a veteran in this scenario, I may make the trade without offering the player to anybody else. If you are battling for playoff position and are not trying to Improve your team, you can’t be mad if someone else tries to improve their’s.

Someone not starting their best players purposefully is nowhere near the same thing. It’s unlikely will agree on this, so I’ll bow out at this point.

Edited by Cjw_55106

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7 minutes ago, tdmills said:

Explain how one is okay and the other screws the league? The opponent benefits the same from both scenarios

I think this has already been answered.  If a team wants to tank, do it by adding young players and draft picks, not by starting players who are out, on a bye, or starting scrubs for studs.  The latter can still be monitored by the commish, but starting players who are out is eliminated.  I have no problem with teams adding young players and draft picks because the purpose of draft slot in dynasty is for bad teams to get better.

Edited by JohnnyU
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Just now, JohnnyU said:

I think this has already been answered.  If a team wants to tank, do it by add young players and draft picks, not by starting players who are out, on a bye, or starting scrubs for studs.  The latter can still be monitored by the commish, but starting players who are out is eliminated.

The condescending tone can be eliminated here and this was directed at someone else.

Getting a higher draft pick likely has a greater benefit than trading whatever vets couldn't get them into the playoffs in the first place.

I'm well aware what i'm saying is "different" but look at it from the bad teams point of view.

 

Example: They have Josh Allen, Baker Mayfield, and Daniel Jones at QB. They're not making it to the playoffs, but all of those players could help them get into the playoffs in future years. In terms of potential points, it hurts their team to roster all of them. It doesn't benefit them to trade them due to return on investment.

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34 minutes ago, tdmills said:

You have an obligation to accidentally help teams by winning games you don't want to win in a league you pay $$$ for?

 

I have an obligation to the teams still competing to play competitively rather than throw games for self interest.  This is my longer leagues 26th season and we haven't had a notable instance of tanking, which is evidence the league is of the same mind set.

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7 minutes ago, Cjw_55106 said:

If I have an aging veteran that is still producing, I would let the league know that I am interested in moving him for draft picks. After all, it benefits me if everyone knows I want to move a guy rather than just dealing with one owner. At that point, all teams have the opportunity to trade for said player. If I am approached unsolicited for a veteran in this scenario, I may make the trade without offering the player to anybody else. If you are battling for playoff position and are not trying to Improve your team, you can’t be mad if someone else tries to improve their’s.

Someone not starting their best players purposefully is nowhere near the same thing. It’s unlikely will agree on this, so I’ll bow out at this point.

Bowing out without asking questions of how this would look. Why?

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1 minute ago, tdmills said:

Bowing out without asking questions of how this would look. Why?

How would this look?

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2 minutes ago, tdmills said:

Bowing out without asking questions of how this would look. Why?

You've reached a deep enough trolling level.

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7 minutes ago, tdmills said:

The condescending tone can be eliminated here and this was directed at someone else.

Getting a higher draft pick likely has a greater benefit than trading whatever vets couldn't get them into the playoffs in the first place.

I'm well aware what i'm saying is "different" but look at it from the bad teams point of view.

 

Example: They have Josh Allen, Baker Mayfield, and Daniel Jones at QB. They're not making it to the playoffs, but all of those players could help them get into the playoffs in future years. In terms of potential points, it hurts their team to roster all of them. It doesn't benefit them to trade them due to return on investment.

Condescending tone?  I don't think so.  I know you said this was directed at someone else, so don't reply to my post with a condescending tone accusation.  I think I've laid out a pretty good argument for potential points.

Edited by JohnnyU

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2 minutes ago, Cjw_55106 said:

How would this look?

When the new league site is rolled over teams would have the opportunity to announce if they are tanking for the upcoming season. They would be given a week and this is before the season starts. Then after each week in the regular season, teams have the opportunity to announce they're tanking. The moment teams announce tanking is their draft pick. They would be accepting an automatic loss each week.

Example

Before the season = 2 teams(dice roll for 1.01 vs 1.02)

After week 4 = 1 team(1.03)

After week 7 = 1 team(1.04)

After week 10 = 1 team(1.05)

After week 12 = 1 team(1.06)

 

Then have these teams can play in toilet bowl if you'd like.

 

This actually helps rebuilding more than any other model and creates less work for commishes.

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7 minutes ago, DropKick said:

You've reached a deep enough trolling level.

Hope you have an enjoyable Thanksgiving bud

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1 minute ago, tdmills said:

Hope you have an enjoyable Thanksgiving bud

I love turkey and dressing.  Especially the dressing recipe that was handed down  from my step grandmother to my mother to my wife.

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Just now, JohnnyU said:

I love turkey and dressing.  Especially the dressing recipe that was handed down  from my step grandmother to my mother to my wife.

Do you prefer dressing or stuffing?

I think i'm more of a dressing guy

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4 minutes ago, tdmills said:

Do you prefer dressing or stuffing?

I think i'm more of a dressing guy

I love the "dressing" recipe that was handed down from my step grandmother to my mother to my wife.  It is a cornbread dressing.

Edited by JohnnyU

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5 minutes ago, tdmills said:

When the new league site is rolled over teams would have the opportunity to announce if they are tanking for the upcoming season. They would be given a week and this is before the season starts. Then after each week in the regular season, teams have the opportunity to announce they're tanking. The moment teams announce tanking is their draft pick. They would be accepting an automatic loss each week.

Example

Before the season = 2 teams(dice roll for 1.01 vs 1.02)

After week 4 = 1 team(1.03)

After week 7 = 1 team(1.04)

After week 10 = 1 team(1.05)

After week 12 = 1 team(1.06)

 

Then have these teams can play in toilet bowl if you'd like.

 

This actually helps rebuilding more than any other model and creates less work for commishes.

Ok, I’ve been sitting out this thread assuming you weren’t to be taken seriously, but this is unique enough and intriguing enough to be worth unpacking.

So when a team declares “tanking!” and locks in their draft pick, do they drop out of the schedule?  Does anything else change?  

If nothing changes, what’s to stop my title-contending team from declaring a tank in week 1 for the pick, then lining up and steamrolling people for a title AND a good pick?

I still have a problem with this plan if I am a top team.  I will play opponents’ best shot early on, but my own team’s crushing victories over them will encourage them to push the tank button earlier than teams I play later.  I will keep getting strong lineups to play against while potential playoff opponents get tanking lineups from teams no longer on my upcoming schedule.

Lastly...one reason why “trading for prospects” is an acceptanle form of tanking where starting scrubs is not is that the trading does two things to help competitive balance:  bad teams get a surplus of dart throws at the next elite rookie AND rising contenders get some vets to fill holes and make them more competitive right now.  Just benching guys for position does neither of these things, and may actually delay the development of those midtier teams.

Granted as a perennial champ I am under no obligation to help my competition improve, but if I’m winning hand over fist I also don’t want so many rivals giving up that the league collapses, the golden goose dies, and I’m left holding trophies but no revenue stream.  There is a reason the richest owners in real sports accept revenue sharing and luxury taxes for competitive balance after all...

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1 hour ago, tdmills said:

We're both discussing less work for commisioners. It's a thankless job. We shouldn't make them be the judge and jury when they should be going out to breakfast on Sundays.

If they trade the players for future draft picks, players, etc or they just say....hey guys i'm tanking. Not really a difference outside of one scenario they actually hurt their future prospects by accidentally winning.

I know I don't have a great team and I'm going to leave my lineup blank every game and get a zero for the year. Halfway through the year 4 or 5 teams will be going this. Fun league.

I do get your point that you can legally tank but there's never going to be a perfect system .

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11 minutes ago, Arodin said:

Ok, I’ve been sitting out this thread assuming you weren’t to be taken seriously, but this is unique enough and intriguing enough to be worth unpacking.

So when a team declares “tanking!” and locks in their draft pick, do they drop out of the schedule?  Does anything else change?  

If nothing changes, what’s to stop my title-contending team from declaring a tank in week 1 for the pick, then lining up and steamrolling people for a title AND a good pick?

I still have a problem with this plan if I am a top team.  I will play opponents’ best shot early on, but my own team’s crushing victories over them will encourage them to push the tank button earlier than teams I play later.  I will keep getting strong lineups to play against while potential playoff opponents get tanking lineups from teams no longer on my upcoming schedule.

Lastly...one reason why “trading for prospects” is an acceptanle form of tanking where starting scrubs is not is that the trading does two things to help competitive balance:  bad teams get a surplus of dart throws at the next elite rookie AND rising contenders get some vets to fill holes and make them more competitive right now.  Just benching guys for position does neither of these things, and may actually delay the development of those midtier teams.

Granted as a perennial champ I am under no obligation to help my competition improve, but if I’m winning hand over fist I also don’t want so many rivals giving up that the league collapses, the golden goose dies, and I’m left holding trophies but no revenue stream.  There is a reason the richest owners in real sports accept revenue sharing and luxury taxes for competitive balance after all...

Great questions and i'm open to different ways to deliver this format, but this is my thought process.

 

1- The schedule remains the same...but teams will be auto given W/L based on the tank. 

2-What's to stop your title contending team from declaring a tank? You're giving up 1 year of contending with injuries/poor play/suspensions/retirements. You're also paying $$$ to not compete for another year. Lastly, if 2 other teams also declare...then you could've given up one year for the 1.03. Could also be the 1.01 or 1.02, but I doubt contenders would try.

3-This scenario happens every year anyway. I've played very strong teams week 1 and other contenders play them after they've decided to rebuild and trade away vets. It's luck. Others could also play them when their best players are injured, on bye weeks, suspended, etc.

4-Unless those players could benefit them in the future. Otherwise you're correct. If it's potential points or have to start your best lineup no matter what....then you are very "encouraged" to trade those maybe players.

5-Exactly

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34 minutes ago, tdmills said:

When the new league site is rolled over teams would have the opportunity to announce if they are tanking for the upcoming season. They would be given a week and this is before the season starts. Then after each week in the regular season, teams have the opportunity to announce they're tanking. The moment teams announce tanking is their draft pick. They would be accepting an automatic loss each week.

Example

Before the season = 2 teams(dice roll for 1.01 vs 1.02)

After week 4 = 1 team(1.03)

After week 7 = 1 team(1.04)

After week 10 = 1 team(1.05)

After week 12 = 1 team(1.06)

 

Then have these teams can play in toilet bowl if you'd like.

 

This actually helps rebuilding more than any other model and creates less work for commishes.

Wouldn't this create more work for the commish? Every time a team ranks you'd have to rebalance the schedule and change it for the rest of the year? Maybe in an all play league as a different league for those of us who wouldn't mind adding a league with a twist.

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Just now, voiceofunreason said:

Wouldn't this create more work for the commish? Every time a team ranks you'd have to rebalance the schedule and change it for the rest of the year? Maybe in an all play league as a different league for those of us who wouldn't mind adding a league with a twist.

The schedule remains the exact same....now teams just start nobody. Wins and losses happen as the owners wanted them to in the first place.

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I am in a league that is hybrid best ball with 13 starters.  You just don't set lineups.  Everything else is normal. 

You can't tank other than by trading players away, but of course you are trading for future picks and assets so it isn't tanking, it's buying low and accumulating assets that are projected to appreciate in value. 

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13 hours ago, JohnnyU said:

I think this has already been answered.  If a team wants to tank, do it by adding young players and draft picks, not by starting players who are out, on a bye, or starting scrubs for studs.  The latter can still be monitored by the commish, but starting players who are out is eliminated.  I have no problem with teams adding young players and draft picks because the purpose of draft slot in dynasty is for bad teams to get better.

great points 

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Best method I have seen for keeping people interested and preventing total tanking is the teams that don't make the playoffs go into their own separate playoff where the winner gets the 1.01, runner up gets 1.02, etc. 

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30 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Best method I have seen for keeping people interested and preventing total tanking is the teams that don't make the playoffs go into their own separate playoff where the winner gets the 1.01, runner up gets 1.02, etc. 

The league I run does the same thing. 12 team league 6 in playoffs 6 in draft bowl. Also the lowest scoring team in weeks 10-13 pays $20. These rules have kept teams from checking out when they know they can't win.

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Total points seems like a bad idea to me.  Hey team that's 1-8, you can quit playing four weeks earlier than the rest of your league mates.  

There are two ways to combat tanking - incentivize against it, or scrap head-to-head format altogether.

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Best method I have seen for keeping people interested and preventing total tanking is the teams that don't make the playoffs go into their own separate playoff where the winner gets the 1.01, runner up gets 1.02, etc. 

Keeps people interested, yes, but also stacks the deck against the worst teams.  

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1 minute ago, Mister CIA said:

Total points seems like a bad idea to me.  Hey team that's 1-8, you can quit playing four weeks earlier than the rest of your league mates.  

There are two ways to combat tanking - incentivize against it, or scrap head-to-head format altogether.

 

 

Potential points for draft slots for non-playoff teams only.  Not total points.  

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2 minutes ago, Mister CIA said:

Keeps people interested, yes, but also stacks the deck against the worst teams.  

It does, but also rewarding teams for being terrible is a  questionable practice 

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Just now, JohnnyU said:

Potential points for draft slots for non-playoff teams only.  Not total points.  

Yep, my bad,  but I still don't think it solves anything.

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4 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

It does, but also rewarding teams for being terrible is a  questionable practice 

I wonder how Colts fans feel about this.

 

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5 minutes ago, Mister CIA said:

Yep, my bad,  but I still don't think it solves anything.

Sure it does.  It keeps the commish from having to monitor for players OUT and replacing them with someone from their bench.

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We use a weighted lottery and it works well. Another idea is having a “toilet bowl” playoff while the other playoffs are going on and winner gets first overall 2nd round pick. This keeps everyone engaged and competitive.

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4 minutes ago, King of the Jungle said:

We use a weighted lottery and it works well. Another idea is having a “toilet bowl” playoff while the other playoffs are going on and winner gets first overall 2nd round pick. This keeps everyone engaged and competitive.

To be honest, I've never cared about the toilet bowl in the leagues we have it, but I like the idea of awarding the first overall 2nd rd pick.  Weighted lotteries are bad in the sense they can reward good to borderline teams with high picks.  In dynasty, the most important part of the draft is to improve bad teams.

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There is no perfect system unfortunately. The right owners make all the difference. I have been fortunate to be in a 20+ year dynasty league that has had only two owner changes during that time. The owners respect the rules and are ethical in the way they play.

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22 hours ago, Cjw_55106 said:

This is a terrible take. I care for a couple reasons. Number one, you may have beat me in week 1 when you thought your team had a chance. Now in week 10 or 11 or 12, you’re going to give wins away to teams that might be competing for playoff position? Bush league.

Secondly, the draft is meant to help the worst teams first. A team that should take six or seventh in the league has no business “winning” the first pick. It won’t take too long before you have four or five teams tanking before the season even starts. Who wants to be a part of that?

this ALL DAY this

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