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Dynasty & Redraft: WR Tee Higgins, Bengals

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I’m so glad he’s declared! ETN should be following shortly.

Tex

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On 1/15/2020 at 1:53 PM, cloppbeast said:

This isn't an observation I made from watching him. Do you have any examples?

I was just talking about against LSU

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I love watching this guy. I don't know why, but he makes me feel more at ease at the slot he'll be picked at than Jeudy or Lamb. 

eta* for fantasy purposes, that is

Edited by rockaction
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Why's his thread so quiet all the time?

Height: 6-3 5/8

Weight: 216

Hand: 9 2/8

Arm: 34 1/8

Wingspan: 81

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11 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Because we want people to keep forgetting about him!

I'm ok with that, sorry to bump

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Very interested. Picking at 1.07 this year and thinking ( hoping ) that he has w good chance to be in play 

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Read a bunch of profiles of him and came away wary.  Descriptions seem to say that he uses his size/athleticism to win catches as opposed to technique and quickness.  Other places say he's not good off the line/in press coverage but can eventually outrun DBs with his long strides. 

Feels like a giant avoid to me right now, ahead of athletic testing.

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6 hours ago, tangfoot said:

Read a bunch of profiles of him and came away wary.  Descriptions seem to say that he uses his size/athleticism to win catches as opposed to technique and quickness.  Other places say he's not good off the line/in press coverage but can eventually outrun DBs with his long strides. 

Feels like a giant avoid to me right now, ahead of athletic testing.

That is my initial impression as well. Seems like a Mike Williams-type prospect and I feel like those guys are reliant on a very accurate quarterback or someone who has the willingness to throw it up and give their guy a shot to make a play.

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Total opposite here. I love him. He was a great player on a great team against great competition, was a significant contributor at age 18, has special size. It's just a matter of seeing what kind of athlete he is.  

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9 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

Total opposite here. I love him. He was a great player on a great team against great competition, was a significant contributor at age 18, has special size. It's just a matter of seeing what kind of athlete he is.  

Not so sure on the great competition part. LSU 3-52, OSU 4-33... I don’t think he is terrible by any means, just think he will needs the right quarterback with his skill set. He doesn’t appear to be a get open quickly guy. The only games I saw him this year were LSU/OSU so that is probably influencing me quite a bit. He didn’t face much stiff competition outside of those games.

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31 minutes ago, King of the Jungle said:

Not so sure on the great competition part. LSU 3-52, OSU 4-33... I don’t think he is terrible by any means, just think he will needs the right quarterback with his skill set. He doesn’t appear to be a get open quickly guy. The only games I saw him this year were LSU/OSU so that is probably influencing me quite a bit. He didn’t face much stiff competition outside of those games.

He got hurt in the 1st quarter of the Ohio State game which I do think limited him. He had 3/80/1 and 4/50/1 in the playoff games the year before. He's definitely not a surefire prospect and I agree he would deeply benefit from a QB like Stafford or Rogers who is willing to throw him open, but I like the guy a lot. 

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11 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

Total opposite here. I love him. He was a great player on a great team against great competition, was a significant contributor at age 18, has special size. It's just a matter of seeing what kind of athlete he is.  

I have my doubts about his ability to separate at the next level.  I think he can be good, but not great.  He has a very good catch radius and tremendous ball skills

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30 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I have my doubts about his ability to separate at the next level.  I think he can be good, but not great.  He has a very good catch radius and tremendous ball skills

I think that’s somewhat unimportant for the way he plays football. Kenny Golladay doesn’t get much separation but he doesn’t need much separation to make a play either. 

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5 hours ago, King of the Jungle said:

Not so sure on the great competition part. LSU 3-52, OSU 4-33... I don’t think he is terrible by any means, just think he will needs the right quarterback with his skill set. He doesn’t appear to be a get open quickly guy. The only games I saw him this year were LSU/OSU so that is probably influencing me quite a bit. He didn’t face much stiff competition outside of those games.

That's not his game.  That's not really any 6'4 player's game.  It's size, bully ability, high point and fight.  Usually.  Julio Jones is the exception.  Mike Evans (same with DK Metcalf) comes to mind as a poor version of Julio Jones with size and speed.  Nuk, MT, Davante, Keenan, Sutton, all have size and "ok" speed and they win with size, bully ability, high points and fighting through contact at the catch point. 

I hate the competition argument that he disappeared against LSU/OSU.  He didn't disappear, he got some targets, did something and other players stepped up around him.  That's what football is. 

What really good team/corner has Jeudy even gone up against?  Team wise, it's really only the college playoffs he's played good competition, similar to Higgins there.   I don't evaluate corners but just looking at teams played (over his 3 years) I don't remember any of those teams having great defenses in college other than 1 matchup against Clemson in 2018 (were they a good defense?) when he did pretty good (5/139/1).  

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1 hour ago, Zyphros said:

That's not his game.  That's not really any 6'4 player's game.  It's size, bully ability, high point and fight.  Usually.  Julio Jones is the exception.  Mike Evans (same with DK Metcalf) comes to mind as a poor version of Julio Jones with size and speed.  Nuk, MT, Davante, Keenan, Sutton, all have size and "ok" speed and they win with size, bully ability, high points and fighting through contact at the catch point. 

I hate the competition argument that he disappeared against LSU/OSU.  He didn't disappear, he got some targets, did something and other players stepped up around him.  That's what football is. 

What really good team/corner has Jeudy even gone up against?  Team wise, it's really only the college playoffs he's played good competition, similar to Higgins there.   I don't evaluate corners but just looking at teams played (over his 3 years) I don't remember any of those teams having great defenses in college other than 1 matchup against Clemson in 2018 (were they a good defense?) when he did pretty good (5/139/1).  

Jeudy went bonkers against Michigan in the bowl game. Michigan's defense wasn't elite but it was pretty good and they have several players who will get drafted- including a CB and safety. 

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Quote

Clemson WR Tee Higgins (rest) will not take part in combine testing on Thursday.

Always somewhat alarming for a player like Higgins -- not a burner -- to bow out last minute like this. Especially without any apparent injury concern. The 6-foot-4, 216-pound jump ball maven will test at Clemson's pro day, but by sitting in Indianapolis, he's going all/nothing on said pro day. We do not view Higgins' lack of overt speed an outright killer for his Day 1 prospects unless he absolutely faceplants with his pro day sprint. We already knew that Higgy was not Henry Ruggs in the speed quotient.

SOURCE: Ryan Sakamoto on Twitter

Feb 27, 2020, 6:05 PM ET

 

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I really wanted to see him in drills.  The 40, I wasn't expecting something great, but something adequate would have been nice to put next to his name.  I think he would have impressed in drills had he participated.  And at least he could of put on a show that way.  Unless he's basically just the same guy as Preston Williams.  Body type is similar, draft capital isn't/won't be.  But it does explain why I like him a lot.  

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21 hours ago, Zyphros said:

That's not his game.  That's not really any 6'4 player's game.  It's size, bully ability, high point and fight.  Usually.  Julio Jones is the exception.  Mike Evans (same with DK Metcalf) comes to mind as a poor version of Julio Jones with size and speed.  Nuk, MT, Davante, Keenan, Sutton, all have size and "ok" speed and they win with size, bully ability, high points and fighting through contact at the catch point. 

I hate the competition argument that he disappeared against LSU/OSU.  He didn't disappear, he got some targets, did something and other players stepped up around him.  That's what football is. 

What really good team/corner has Jeudy even gone up against?  Team wise, it's really only the college playoffs he's played good competition, similar to Higgins there.   I don't evaluate corners but just looking at teams played (over his 3 years) I don't remember any of those teams having great defenses in college other than 1 matchup against Clemson in 2018 (were they a good defense?) when he did pretty good (5/139/1).  

It is not really a competition arguement, those were the only games I saw him play and he did nothing to stand out. I am not saying he is a bust, but would have liked to have see him run. Fear he is a high 4.5 guy that will require the right quarterback who is willing to throw those 50-50 balls to give him a shot. Admittedly I need to learn more about his contested catch ability, hands, etc.

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Like everyone, I'm disappointed he didn't run. Unlike everyone, it doesn't worry me too much. I'll have to watch where he's drafted and how highly-regarded he is, but he seems like at least a second round NFL guy who excelled in college and in his highlights (what I call film). 

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Quote

In his latest mock draft, The Athletic's Dane Brugler pegged Clemson WR Tee Higgins to the Jacksonville Jaguars at pick No. 42 in the second round.

Brugler's fresh mock takes into account the fallout from the NFL Scouting Combine, not great for Higgins given that the 6-foot-4, 216-pound wideout opted to sit out athletic testing for "rest" purposes. Not the best of looks for Higgins on that front. He could use a strong showing at his pro day on March 12. We wouldn't put Higgins out of the running for a Day 1 pick outright, but he has ground to make up in the evaluation process.

SOURCE: The Athletic

Mar 4, 2020, 2:06 PM ET

 

 

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NFL Media's Lance Zierlein compared Clemson WR Tee Higgins to Cincinnati Bengals WR A.J. Green.

"Higgins is leggy getting off of the press, but those same leggy strides are weapons of separation that help create big plays," Zierlein writes, later adding that the 6-foot-4, 216-pound Clemson standout is a "uniquely dangerous playmaker deep and in the red zone." Higgins opted to rest up rather than take part in athletic tests at the combine, but we'll presumably get some testing marks from the wideout this coming week, as Clemson's pro day falls on Thursday, March 12. Higgins could use a strong 40-yard dash run, especially if he is to legitimately stick in the Day 1 mix. In his post-combine mock draft, The Athletic's Dane Brugler had Higgins slipping to early in the second round.

SOURCE: NFL.com

Mar 8, 2020, 1:35 PM ET

 

 

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Clock don't lie. 

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On 2/27/2020 at 8:33 AM, JohnnyU said:

I have my doubts about his ability to separate at the next level.  I think he can be good, but not great.  He has a very good catch radius and tremendous ball skills

Another Treadwell? Is his ceiling Mike Williams? What are we looking at here...I have no clue. :shrug:

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On 2/27/2020 at 5:33 AM, JohnnyU said:

I have my doubts about his ability to separate at the next level.  I think he can be good, but not great.  He has a very good catch radius and tremendous ball skills

He's listed as 15th out of 17 notables in separation per PFF.

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2 hours ago, ffmail4me said:

Another Treadwell? Is his ceiling Mike Williams? What are we looking at here...I have no clue. :shrug:

I haven’t watched any tape (and don’t really watch much CFB.) Reading through the thread he sounds a lot like Kelvin Benjamin. 

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18 hours ago, Snorkelson said:

I haven’t watched any tape (and don’t really watch much CFB.) Reading through the thread he sounds a lot like Kelvin Benjamin. 

At least he's not fat though.

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3 hours ago, cloppbeast said:

At least he's not fat though.

Well he could be KB but a hard worker, that would be a good wr. 

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I love Higgins from an on the field perspective about what he can.  

The warning signs are piling up more and more that I've seen lately and I'm not exactly sure how to process it all.

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Anyone know what he ran?  I've seen videos of him running, but I can't find the time anywhere.

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Found it, 

Unofficially a 4.43 so sub 4.5 is great even adjusting for pro-day

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Posted (edited)

And unofficial 31 inch vert with a 10.3 broad jump

Those are not good

Edited by Zyphros

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just just looks so good on the field @Zyphros

i had him near the top of my rankings, now i am getting confused by him

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15 minutes ago, Soulfly3 said:

just just looks so good on the field @Zyphros

i had him near the top of my rankings, now i am getting confused by him

You and me both.  He's going to be Kelvin Harmon with draft capital, no chance he slips as far as Harmon did though.  Guess I have a type.  Harmon was one of my top Wr's from last year.  Higgins is/was my top WR this year in just talent profile.  When I adjust for athleticism there's no way I can justify him as a top5 WR.  And even that's probably being generous.  

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Patrick Claybon updated his initial report on Higgins's 40 time:

Quote

Hand timing! Seems as though a rough average after talking to 20 or so scouts was in the mid 4.5s. so apologies for the “easily” above

We'll see what draftscout puts. My guess is that it's not sub 4.5.

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"Shows off" doing what exactly?  Overall it was a very bad day for Higgins.  All I wanted was mediocre testing but nooooo I couldn't even get that.  Speed was arguably his best thing during testing and that was everyone's biggest question mark.  Bad day, and he's plummeting down my rankings.  Currently at 16 overall as of right now.  

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Official numbers from pro-day

6'4 216

40 time - 4.54

Vertical Jump - 31 inches 

Broad Jump - 123 inches (10 feet 3 inches)

4.53 Shuttle

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Posted (edited)

much like Hopkins, whose combine numbers kinda smelled (same school, same competition).... only thing hopkins really was different from higgins at the combine was 5" more vert (significant), but hopkins isnt out there catching jump balls very often, is he?

thing is, you turn on the tape w higgins and you're looking at a top 3 wr. 

i really gotta stop letting combine numbers sway me, but it's hard.

Edited by Soulfly3
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9 minutes ago, Soulfly3 said:

much like Hopkins, whose combine numbers kinda smelled (same school, same competition).... only thing hopkins really was different from higgins at the combine was 5" more vert (significant), but hopkins isnt out there catching jump balls very often, is he?

thing is, you turn on the tape w higgins and you're looking at a top 3 wr. 

i really gotta stop letting combine numbers sway me, but it's hard.

I like that standpoint and agree that the combine plays too much of a role when it comes to drafting. With me individually I was on the fence with Higgins, so it becomes a factor. And unfortunately in this case it becomes a negative. 

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2 hours ago, Soulfly3 said:

much like Hopkins, whose combine numbers kinda smelled (same school, same competition).... only thing hopkins really was different from higgins at the combine was 5" more vert (significant), but hopkins isnt out there catching jump balls very often, is he?

thing is, you turn on the tape w higgins and you're looking at a top 3 wr. 

i really gotta stop letting combine numbers sway me, but it's hard.

The way I see combine (or pro day) numbers is usually a reflection of draft capital, at least a little.  Immediately I think he's a 2nd round prospect now, instead of a top25 pick.  That does matter when it comes to projecting how good he is as a prospect and potential playing time/patience from the organization.  I think you're fooling yourself if you don't take that into account.  Still love the guy, but realistically he's lower than I had imagined.  

The way I do my rankings is if you're a poor athlete you move down a tier (good athletes move up).  Higgins was in Tier1 for me, from a pure talent perspective, moves down to Tier2 thanks to that workout.  The other WR's in my current Tier2 which is based on their workout movement are, Jeudy, Edwards, Shenault, Mims, Jefferson, Ruggs.  Jeudy, Jefferson, Mims and Ruggs all moved up from Tier3 to Tier2.  So my choice at that point is to rank the guy I had higher (Higgins) ahead/behind all the guys from Tier2.  Both the ones that moved up from Tier3 and the ones that stayed in Tier2 based on workouts.  That's an easy choice to me, the guys that stayed in Tier2 are all immediately higher than Higgins.  The only one of that group is Bryan Edwards.  All the guys 2 tiers down, Tier3, (Jeudy, Jefferson, Mims, Ruggs) I could rank higher/lower than Higgins still.  I usually choose to jump the lower talents at that point because of draft capital since they all boosted their stocks a lot.  I can't justify Higgins over any of them other than Shenault.  And even that is bad because Shenault was hurt and by all reports is a way better athlete.  

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i know @Zyphrosbut his tape is so good :lol:

we're discussing knocking a guy down the ladder because a single workout day somehow almost erases years of tape of him playing the actual game

why do we do that? i don't wanna do that anymore

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