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Post your tiebreaker rules (1 Viewer)

Judge Smails

Judge Smails

Footballguy
Division winner. Wildcards. Byes.

Conflict in our group due to league constitution not jiving with standard CBS setup that’s listed on home page. 

Wildcard is easy. Same record, tiebreaker is highest points. 

Division winner? Do you do division record then head to head then highest points? Or something different?

What about playoff seeding? 2 teams getting byes - but who gets #1 seed? Same as divisional winner tiebreaker even though different division? Something different? 

 
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I play in one league where Total Points is the only tiebreaker ever used, even if one team beat the other team multiple times. No complaints.

I play in another league where H2H is used for 2-team ties OR for multiple-team ties if one team is undefeated against the others. Otherwise, total points is the tiebreaker.

Both leagues are 12-team with 8 teams making the playoffs.

Division Record is an OK method of determining the winner of each division but it should never be used to determine playoff spots across different divisions. I would use total points or head to head.

 
We only have 10 teams in the league I commish and actually divisions don’t matter. Top 8 teams make the playoffs. It goes by record then highest points. Have done both 6 teams advance and 8. When we’ve done 6 it’s the two teams with the highest record that get the bye. With 8 we go the same way without the bye, highest record gets the 8th place team and so on by records no matter what division you’re in. Tiebreakers we do highest points and then h2h record followed by division record. 

 
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Head to head is the absolute worst tie-breaker and should never be used

better methods:

points

breakdown 

head to head breakdown (Which team outscored the other more times in all 13 weeks)

 
In the long running keep two league that I commish, we got rid of divisions three years ago and never looked back. Best move we’ve made in a while. It’s 12 teams and total points is the only tiebreaker we’ve had to use. I think it’s the most fair way. We use decimal scoring so a tie would be rare. 
 

The schedule sets up nice too with 12 teams. We do a 13 week regular season, playoffs are weeks 14-16. Each team plays each other once. Weeks 7 and 13 are “position rounds” where the team in first plays the team in second, third plays fourth, etc. The top two seeds after week 13 get byes in the first round of the playoffs. 

 
These are rule clarifications I added to the site rules of H2H, Division Record and Points:

"Division winners are decided before wildcard spots
Multi-team (>2) head to head only applies if one team swept all other teams
When deciding multi-team tiebreaks, only one spot is decided first then procedure starts over (this means coming in 2nd in a tie break w/2 spots open does not mean anything)
Division record only applies when deciding division winner not for wildcards"

 
As a commissioner, Total Pts Scored is the easiest to administer, easiest to defend, and the MOST VISIBLE to everyone (since almost every Website Standings page has a column for Pts Scored).
And Total Pts Scored totally eliminates the "He had an easier schedule" argument and you don't have to be a lawyer to apply.

 
Not saying ours is the best, but....

10 team league - 2 divisions of 5 teams (evens and odds from the prior year final finish), 6 playoff teams.  Each division winner gets in with a week 14 bye - the next 4 teams are all "wildcard teams" and have a play in game week 14 - then the top seed plays the lowest remaining seed and the 2 seed plays the higher remaining seed. 

Overall win percentage is tops, followed by head to head, followed by division record, finally followed by points.  This makes each week's games potentially very important at the very end of the season.  You only play teams in the other division once each, and that one game determines who has a tiebreaker over the other.  But you play each team in your own division twice, often splitting.  So when 3+ teams all end up with the same record, it can be confusing - but it's head to head among all those teams at the same record, then followed by each team's individual division record. 

We did have one issue with the system two years ago, though.  The top two teams in one division, as well as the 2nd place team in the other division each finished 8-5.  It then determined the head to head among the 3 of them to determine the division winner.  Then with that team removed did it all over again to find out who would be the 3 seed and who the 4 seed.  A bit of controversy ensued. 

 
Rove! said:
Head to head is the absolute worst tie-breaker and should never be used

better methods:

points

breakdown 

head to head breakdown (Which team outscored the other more times in all 13 weeks)
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Totally agree. Breakdown shows who has the better team and eliminates the possibility that you missed the playoffs simply because the schedule had you playing the team that made it when all your guys were on a bye week. We do breakdown first and points 2nd but it almost always ends up the same either way.

 
I scored the most points in the league once and missed the playoffs when we stupidly had H-H as a tiebreaker.

 
whole-show said:
We only have 10 teams in the league I commish and actually divisions don’t matter. Top 8 teams make the playoffs. It goes by record then highest points. Have done both 6 teams advance and 8. When we’ve done 6 it’s the two teams with the highest record that get the bye. With 8 we go the same way without the bye, highest record gets the 8th place team and so on by records no matter what division you’re in. Tiebreakers we do highest points and then h2h record followed by division record. 
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8 out of 10 team make the playoffs...?....wow

 
12 team league.....6 make the playoffs....

play all teams in division twice.....so we use head to head and then points for division tiebreaker

those (3) get in....then the next (3) teams with the best "all play" record.....

playoff seeding 1-6 determined by "all play" record.....

our league has really bought into the fact that your "all play" record is really the best way to see who had the best teams each week, so we incorporated it in our league big time...

 
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Man In The Box said:
In the long running keep two league that I commish, we got rid of divisions three years ago and never looked back. Best move we’ve made in a while. It’s 12 teams and total points is the only tiebreaker we’ve had to use. I think it’s the most fair way. We use decimal scoring so a tie would be rare. 
 

The schedule sets up nice too with 12 teams. We do a 13 week regular season, playoffs are weeks 14-16. Each team plays each other once. Weeks 7 and 13 are “position rounds” where the team in first plays the team in second, third plays fourth, etc. The top two seeds after week 13 get byes in the first round of the playoffs. 
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I would hate this part....with whatever byes are in week 7 that could really change things for what are pretty important matchups if you are forced to play somebody close to you....and then in week 13 instead of maybe randomly having a good match up you could miss the playoffs with a loss by you against a stronger opponent and a win by someone behind you....the 11-12 and 9-10 matchup in week 13 probably mean nothing for those teams...

 
"all play" is really a very under utilized and under appreciated form of knowing who the best teams in the league really are.....

we had a team that finished 5-9 (we play two DH's).....but his "all play" record was second best in the league....so he got the #2 seed...

 
Stinkin Ref said:
8 out of 10 team make the playoffs...?....wow
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Yeah it’s not a high stakes competitive league that’s for sure. It’s a family and friends league with only a $50 fee so like I said we’ve done 6, but this year trying 8 just to give more teams a chance and to keep playing. Also always have divided the money through the 4 top finishers with 4th place getting the fee back. Very laid back league for sure. 

 
Stinkin Ref said:
"all play" is really a very under utilized and under appreciated form of knowing who the best teams in the league really are.....

we had a team that finished 5-9 (we play two DH's).....but his "all play" record was second best in the league....so he got the #2 seed...
Click to expand...
whats funny (not really) is I commish this league.....was tied for first in my division (8-6) at the end of the regular season.....had more total points but the guy I was tied with beat me both times head to head.....so he got in that way.....but my all play record was awful, so the 5-9 guy got in instead of me and I'm on the outside looking in.....if it was solely based on just season record, I would have gotten in easily...

 
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Stinkin Ref said:
I would hate this part....with whatever byes are in week 7 that could really change things for what are pretty important matchups if you are forced to play somebody close to you....and then in week 13 instead of maybe randomly having a good match up you could miss the playoffs with a loss by you against a stronger opponent and a win by someone behind you....the 11-12 and 9-10 matchup in week 13 probably mean nothing for those teams...
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We've had no complaints about it since we started doing it this way. Everyone is aware when the position rounds are before the season. If you choose to draft players who have a bye that week, you know the risk. I should also add that we use a two point win/loss system where you get a win if you win your head-to-head matchup, and a win if you finish in the top 6 (a loss in the bottom 6) in points for the week. In the three seasons we've used this system, the best 6 teams have made the playoffs each season. 

 
10 teams, 4 playoff spots in the league I run:

#1 / 2 are division winners (record then total points as tiebreaker)

#3 is highest total points among remaining teams (record as tiebreaker).

#4 is the best remaining record (total points as tiebreaker).

I assign the 3-seed rather than the 4 to the total point leader as they're often the best or second-best team, and IMO it's fairer to the 1-seed not to have to face them until the finals.

If I squint, I can see the logic for using H2H tiebreakers in 10- and 14-team leagues, since the schedules are (or at least should be) perfectly balanced. But a 13-week schedule for a 12-team league will always be unbalanced - it's just math - depending on division size you'll either be playing some division rivals once or some out-of-division teams twice. So H2H really makes zero sense as a tiebreaker in 12-teamers.

 
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Also, on an unrelated note, the division winners in my league get the right to "draft" their divisions the following year, on a snake-draft basis (A-B-B-A and so on). Highly recommend this for local leagues where everyone knows each other. Just imagine the added trash talk.  :lol:

 
Following is the tie breaking scheme should two or more teams have identical records at the end of the regular season. 1) Most points scored during the season 2) Most points scored versus teams in the tie 3) Coin flip.

 
We use conferences like the NFL so three teams from each conference qualify for the play-offs.   The tie breaker is only necessary within the conference and you play each team twice.

The first tie breaker is H2H and, while many don't like that, two wins head to head gives you the nod.

Total points comes next and this is the most common difference maker.  All play might be better but the site doesn't provide the metric.

 
matttyl said:
Not saying ours is the best, but....

10 team league - 2 divisions of 5 teams (evens and odds from the prior year final finish), 6 playoff teams.  Each division winner gets in with a week 14 bye - the next 4 teams are all "wildcard teams" and have a play in game week 14 - then the top seed plays the lowest remaining seed and the 2 seed plays the higher remaining seed. 

Overall win percentage is tops, followed by head to head, followed by division record, finally followed by points.  This makes each week's games potentially very important at the very end of the season.  You only play teams in the other division once each, and that one game determines who has a tiebreaker over the other.  But you play each team in your own division twice, often splitting.  So when 3+ teams all end up with the same record, it can be confusing - but it's head to head among all those teams at the same record, then followed by each team's individual division record. 

We did have one issue with the system two years ago, though.  The top two teams in one division, as well as the 2nd place team in the other division each finished 8-5.  It then determined the head to head among the 3 of them to determine the division winner.  Then with that team removed did it all over again to find out who would be the 3 seed and who the 4 seed.  A bit of controversy ensued. 
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I think your controversial tie breaker was done properly.

 
DropKick said:
We use conferences like the NFL so three teams from each conference qualify for the play-offs.   The tie breaker is only necessary within the conference and you play each team twice.

The first tie breaker is H2H and, while many don't like that, two wins head to head gives you the nod.

Total points comes next and this is the most common difference maker.  All play might be better but the site doesn't provide the metric.
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Then you might want to change sites....just sayin....seriously....not trying to sound like a jerk but you really can’t argue that week to week all play is the best determination of the best team/owner/wdis/roster management teams in the league.....I think eventually “all play” will be the new norm...in this “fake” football world we live in.....in a 12 team league .....if you would  lose to one team but beat the other ten teams you should get some love....I know there will be the “thems the breaks” old school out there guys but seriously scoring the second most points in your league during a week and losing sucks....thats why we do a hybrid of division winners and then all play....we keep the HTH fun/rivalry.....but then reward the next three best teams....

MFL does all play....easy pezy ...$70 or so....so yeah maybe not for those chasing the “free league” thing....]

all play really may really be just the best way to go every week period....let alone as a tie breaker...

 
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Stinkin Ref said:
Then you might want to change sites....just sayin....seriously....not trying to sound like a jerk but you really can’t argue that week to week all play is the best determination of the best team/owner/wdis/roster management teams in the league.....I think eventually “all play” will be the new norm...in this “fake” football world we live in.....in a 12 team league .....if you would  lose to one team but beat the other ten teams you should get some love....I know there will be the “thems the breaks” old school out there guys but seriously scoring the second most points in your league during a week and losing sucks....thats why we do a hybrid of division winners and then all play....we keep the HTH fun/rivalry.....but then reward the next three best teams....

MFL does all play....easy pezy ...$70 or so....so yeah maybe not for those chasing the “free league” thing....]

all play really may really be just the best way to go every week period....let alone as a tie breaker...
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All play is too much like roto.  You are playing against everybody and do not get the head to head feel that makes football the best of the fantasy sports.  I also don't think it really makes much difference than just going total points.  You might have a couple teams move up or down slightly but after having looked into this for a few leagues over the years you might as well just go total points.  It's much easier to see quickly and everyone knows where they stand.  I would not be in a league where all play was the weekly format. 

 
Judge Smails said:
Division winner. Wildcards. Byes.

Conflict in our group due to league constitution not jiving with standard CBS setup that’s listed on home page. 

Wildcard is easy. Same record, tiebreaker is highest points. 

Division winner? Do you do division record then head to head then highest points? Or something different?

What about playoff seeding? 2 teams getting byes - but who gets #1 seed? Same as divisional winner tiebreaker even though different division? Something different? 
Click to expand...
I have never understood why you need to have divisions.  I have never been in any leagues that utilize divisions.  It can make things confusing when discussing tie breakers.  Just have one set of standings and then tie breakers are easy.  You don't have to worry about division record or having one division much better than another division skewing the strength of the teams. 

What is the purpose of divisions?  Why does anybody do that?

 
Gally said:
All play is too much like roto.  You are playing against everybody and do not get the head to head feel that makes football the best of the fantasy sports.  I also don't think it really makes much difference than just going total points.  You might have a couple teams move up or down slightly but after having looked into this for a few leagues over the years you might as well just go total points.  It's much easier to see quickly and everyone knows where they stand.  I would not be in a league where all play was the weekly format. 
Click to expand...
did you read my whole post...?.....thats why we do a hybrid of HTH and all play as I mentioned above....we get the best of both worlds.....your HTH match ups still matter/factor in, you still get the rivalry aspect.....and then we also make sure the truly best teams get in by using all play.....3 playoff spots go to the division winners (HTH) and the 3 playoff spots go to the next best all play records....

 
Gally said:
What is the purpose of divisions?  Why does anybody do that?
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In a casual league, it makes things “feel” more like the NFL.  When there isn’t a ton of money on the line, and it’s mainly about bragging rights, being that NFC East team that backs its way into the playoff with a soft division can be fun.  And the prospect can keep less talented owners engaged while they build skill.  Great setup for beginner leagues to feed into more serious compeitive formats.

 
Stinkin Ref said:
did you read my whole post...?.....thats why we do a hybrid of HTH and all play as I mentioned above....we get the best of both worlds.....your HTH match ups still matter/factor in, you still get the rivalry aspect.....and then we also make sure the truly best teams get in by using all play.....3 playoff spots go to the division winners (HTH) and the 3 playoff spots go to the next best all play records....
Click to expand...
Yes I did.  I just don't think the work for all play really results in anything different that total points.    I compared all play to total points in a few leagues a few years ago (probably did it in 10 leagues total over three years) and they were essentially the same.  A team may move up or down 1 or 2 spots but nothing significant.  Using total points gets you 95% of the same results as all play with much less work (and easier to know where you stand). 

 
Arodin said:
In a casual league, it makes things “feel” more like the NFL.  When there isn’t a ton of money on the line, and it’s mainly about bragging rights, being that NFC East team that backs its way into the playoff with a soft division can be fun.  And the prospect can keep less talented owners engaged while they build skill.  Great setup for beginner leagues to feed into more serious compeitive formats.
Click to expand...
In those casual leagues (work and father/son leagues) we have all teams make the playoffs.  Top 2 or 4 teams get byes depending on how many teams are in for that year.  It keeps everyone involved the whole year and a lot more bragging when you win the Super Bowl from the last spot....hahahah

 
Gally said:
In those casual leagues (work and father/son leagues) we have all teams make the playoffs.  Top 2 or 4 teams get byes depending on how many teams are in for that year.  It keeps everyone involved the whole year and a lot more bragging when you win the Super Bowl from the last spot....hahahah
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I would find that far less compelling because it renders the regular season meaningless.  Obviously it works well for your league, but in mine the threat of missing the playoffs is also something that fuels the trashtalk and motivation.

Just goes to support my usual premise that the “best” ruleset is whatever works best for your particular group of owners.

Except ppr of course, which is the spawn of the devil and should be shot into the nearest star.

(kidding....)

 
I prefer the set up where Most teams make it. Top part gets a bye, middle plays the wild card round, and the very bottom get nothing and like it.

 
●Division. head-to-head, division record, total points.

●WildCard. head-to-head, conference record, total points.

16 tm. 2 conferences of 8. 4 playoff ea conf, 2div and 2wc.

 
The league I commish, we combine "all play" and H2H weekly. So everyone gets a combination of 2W's, 2L's or 1W/1L every week. Then we 4 teams making the playoffs in a three week points total shootout. This year playoff teams were 19-7 to 16-10, we rarely have ties at the end of regular season but points total would be the tie breaker if needed.

 
Gally said:
Yes I did.  I just don't think the work for all play really results in anything different that total points.    I compared all play to total points in a few leagues a few years ago (probably did it in 10 leagues total over three years) and they were essentially the same.  A team may move up or down 1 or 2 spots but nothing significant.  Using total points gets you 95% of the same results as all play with much less work (and easier to know where you stand). 
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You realize that move 1 or 2 spots “up or down” is a really big deal right....?

and I’m not sure what the “work” is that yo keep referring to.....the website does it for you.....there is nothing to it....

 
Gally said:
I have never understood why you need to have divisions.  I have never been in any leagues that utilize divisions.  It can make things confusing when discussing tie breakers.  Just have one set of standings and then tie breakers are easy.  You don't have to worry about division record or having one division much better than another division skewing the strength of the teams.

What is the purpose of divisions?  Why does anybody do that?
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Historically, to mimic the NFL and balanced scheduling.

Ours is a twelve team league.  I would want to expand to 14 teams to eliminate divisions and keep a 13 week season.  I like the idea of 6/14 teams making the play-offs too.

To be honest, my preference is all play.   Most people in the league prefer H2H.

 
We like it a lot. :shrug:

30 year keeper league, full IDP. We will be switching points scored to all-play record during the next reset season.

 
Stinkin Ref said:
You realize that move 1 or 2 spots “up or down” is a really big deal right....?

and I’m not sure what the “work” is that yo keep referring to.....the website does it for you.....there is nothing to it....
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It's not really that big of deal.  In my research it affects maybe 2 teams that flip flop spots.  Most of the time there was no difference.  Not worth the change over just using total points.  Obviously it is a big deal to you.  It just isn't to me.  

 
Gally said:
It's not really that big of deal.  In my research it affects maybe 2 teams that flip flop spots.  Most of the time there was no difference.  Not worth the change over just using total points.  Obviously it is a big deal to you.  It just isn't to me.  
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In say a 12 team league where 6 make the playoffs if 7 and 8 flip with 5 and 6 it is a big deal....like I said in my example above we had a 5-9 team get in because in all play he DOMINATED but in his “weekly” matchups he was really unlucky....

 
We just use the power ranking on CBS - takes total points, record, and breakdown into account.  We haven't encountered a tie in the power ranking yet re:tiebreaker decision, probably should address that before next year.

 
Stinkin Ref said:
In say a 12 team league where 6 make the playoffs if 7 and 8 flip with 5 and 6 it is a big deal....like I said in my example above we had a 5-9 team get in because in all play he DOMINATED but in his “weekly” matchups he was really unlucky....
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I haven't seen that big of difference.  Typically it is two teams flip flopping one spot.   Bottom line as long as you know the tie break going in it doesn't really matter.  It doesn't change after the fact.  My point is that total points and all play essentially give you the same outcome and used only as a tie breaker it probably will not make a difference.

 
Gally said:
I haven't seen that big of difference.  Typically it is two teams flip flopping one spot.   Bottom line as long as you know the tie break going in it doesn't really matter.  It doesn't change after the fact.  My point is that total points and all play essentially give you the same outcome and used only as a tie breaker it probably will not make a difference.
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No worries.....you were the one that said after doing your research it was sometimes a 1 to 2 spot switch or 1 to 2 flip flopping and I’m simply saying that makes a huge difference  about getting into the playoffs or not.....or your seed in the playoffs.....you say you dont see it and thats fine but I see it every year since we have implemented it....and I’m actually glad that the 5-9 team got in over me even though i was 8-6 cause he was better than me against everybody over the course of the year ....

my bottom line: technically even the way we try to balance it with a hybrid of keeping the HTH matchups and hybrid.....in this hobby....STRAIGHT “ALL PLAY” IS REALLY THE WAY TO GO....you still have to make moves and set lineups every week....you play everybody every week....so its really not about total points....the total point winner may not be the best team/owner.....

 
Stinkin Ref said:
so its really not about total points....the total point winner may not be the best team/owner.....
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I would disagree with this statement.  The only thing you "control" is how many points your team scores.  I believe that the "best" team is the team that scores the most points over the course of the year.  That is probably why we disagree about all play vs total points.  

 
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