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Did I cheat? (1 Viewer)

Godsbrother

Footballguy
Longtime CBS league among friends.   Rules state you must start 2 RBs, 3 WRs, 1 Flex.

I started  RB Singletary, Josh Jacobs and WRs: Hopkins, Boyd and Woods.   My flex was RB David Montgomery

I was brewing beer all morning and around 2:00 pm I noticed that Jacobs was inactive for his 4:25 game.    I had no other RB that was not locked so I attempted to move Montgomery from Flex to RB and start WR Christian Kirk at Flex.   Since Montgomery played on Thursday night  the app wouldn't let me switch him to RB.

So at this point CBS is saying I have an illegal starting lineup because I have only 1 RB and 2 Flex.  I feel this is a glitch in the software and I should be cool because I am in accordance with our league rule as my lineup has 2 RBs and 4 WRs which is totally legal.

What say you:  did I cheat?  It's no big deal because I am out of playoffs and the only thing on the line is $10 consolation prize in a game that I would have won even without Kirk.

 
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I knew the automation would lead to consciousness and judgment of all of us humans. 

Listen to the bot. It drafted Godwin early in my leeg. 

And no, you didn't cheat if you were within the spirit of the law. (Read that In a most motherly voice for intent.)

Oh, and you really hate losing, huh?  

 
rockaction said:
I knew the automation would lead to consciousness and judgment of all of us humans. 

Listen to the bot. It drafted Godwin early in my leeg. 

And no, you didn't cheat if you were within the spirit of the law. (Read that In a most motherly voice for intent.)

Oh, and you really hate losing, huh?  
Hey there's 10 bucks on the line - I need it to get my wife a christmas present!

 
you have to be careful about where you place your Thursday night guys as players get locked in to whatever slot you put them in....you essentially committed to playing Montgomery as your flex....as a commish if you notified me immediately I would have fixed it for you, but your league may not work that way....

 
It is good fantasy advice to always fill your flex spot with whichever player at that position has the latest start time, for this sort of chance to preserve flexibility.  I have at times also made that error and had to live with the resulting limited choices for last-minute substitutions,

I would say for a casual league, go ahead and make the change, and post letting people know.  If no one objects it’s all good,  In a more serious, competitive league it was your error and your rivals would be within their rights to hold you to the letter of the ruleset.  I assume you didn’t have the option of picking up another RB like D. Washington?  That would be another recourse.

Just my opinion...your leaguemates would be the most relevant sources of input here.

 
you have to be careful about where you place your Thursday night guys as players get locked in to whatever slot you put them in....you essentially committed to playing Montgomery as your flex....as a commish if you notified me immediately I would have fixed it for you, but your league may not work that way....
I am the commish  :bag: so I could fix it but want to be transparent as to what I did.  I think it will make a good topic for our end of season meeting.

 
I'd actually like to give a serious answer now that I know you're commish. You should follow the exact letter of every law and bring it up at your meeting. 

I'm serious now, they'll all listen to you in the future if you act more than above board on this. It's not worth the ten bucks or competitiveness (and you're talking to a guy who was altering his bye week lineup for maximum score) for that. 

Be cool, Fonzie, Joanie looks up to you.  

 
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Godsbrother said:
Longtime CBS league among friends.   Rules state you must start 2 RBs, 3 WRs, 1 Flex.

I started  RB Singletary, Josh Jacobs and WRs: Hopkins, Boyd and Woods.   My flex was RB David Montgomery

I was brewing beer all morning and around 2:00 pm I noticed that Jacobs was inactive for his 4:25 game.    I had no other RB that was not locked so I attempted to move Montgomery from Flex to RB and start WR Christian Kirk at Flex.   Since Montgomery played on Thursday night  the app wouldn't let me switch him to RB.

So at this point CBS is saying I have an illegal starting lineup because I have only 1 RB and 2 Flex.  I feel this is a glitch in the software and I should be cool because I am in accordance with our league rule as my lineup has 2 RBs and 4 WRs which is totally legal.

What say you:  did I cheat?  It's no big deal because I am out of playoffs and the only thing on the line is $10 consolation prize in a game that I would have won even without Kirk.
I reread your post and highlighted a couple key pieces......the "around 2:00 PM" thing is a little strange and it appears by your second comment that it was actually after 2:00 PM since other 2:00 PM players were locked.....that 25 minute difference between some of the late game starts could be the issue here that makes what you did a little sketch....

 
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I reread your post and highlighted a couple key pieces......the "around 2:00 PM" thing is a little strange and it appears by your second comment that it was actually after 2:00 PM since other 2:00 P<M players were locked.....that 25 minute difference between some of the late game starts could be the issue here that makes what you did a little sketch....
By league rules we can change our lineup up to 5 min before kickoff but all of my RBs on my roster had started their games at 1:00.   I'm not sure how that makes any difference though

 
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I'd actually like to give a serious answer now that I know you're commish. You should follow the exact letter of every law and bring it up at your meeting. 

I'm serious now, they'll all listen to you in the future if you act more than above board on this. It's not worth the ten bucks or competitiveness (and you're talking to a guy who was altering his bye week lineup for maximum score) for that. 

Be cool, Fonzie, Joanie looks up to you.  
I emailed the entire league and told them what I was doing.  So far there haven't been any complaints

 
I think when something isn't specifically dealt with in the rules then you go just go with what the computer does automatically.

 
I emailed the entire league and told them what I was doing.  So far there haven't been any complaints
Great. Full disclosure is the next best thing to not doing it all. I'd self-report, throw the flag and take whatever punishment the bot hands down but then make it clear in the future that you will adjust lineups as the commissioner when it matters. 

And sorry to start off with a joke. I figured that since you were able to submit as a player It was no big deal. I did not realize you altered it under your commissioner's duty. That makes it different to me, for some reason. But I think you're good dude, and didn't cheat. 

 
if Kirk's game hadn't started yet and you notified people about it and made the change before Kirk's game started then you are probably ok.....but if the PIT/AZ game started at 2:00 instead of 2:25 (I'm not sure when it started)....and you did anything AFTER 1:55......it shouldn't be done...

 
I think when something isn't specifically dealt with in the rules then you go just go with what the computer does automatically.
Yeah and this is what has me feeling uneasy about it although I will say that as commish is another owner did it I would be okay with it.   Still feel a little dirty.  I am waiting to hear what the other owners in the league say

 
if Kirk's game hadn't started yet and you notified people about it and made the change before Kirk's game started then you are probably ok.....but if the PIT/AZ game started at 2:00 instead of 2:25 (I'm not sure when it started)....and you did anything AFTER 1:55......it shouldn't be done...
No I am on Pittsburgh time so there was still 2 hours before the Pit-AZ game

 
No I am on Pittsburgh time so there was still 2 hours before the Pit-AZ game
ohhh....then you are totally fine.....nothing to see here.....you were intending to still play within the rules and its just a website/slot issue that shouldn't affect things.....on other sites this is not an issue...sorry I was not looking at your times correctly....

 
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My only issue is that no other owner could have done this without intervention.  I.E., you were only able to do this because you are the commish.  Nobody else could have(and since their commish was brewing beer, it would have been hours until he even answered the inquiry).

As an aside, this is exactly why I leave my flex spot for the player playing in the latest game.

 
No, you didn't cheat.  In fact, I don't think you did anything wrong at all.  However, it's a good idea to be transparent to the league with the email (like you did) and to iron out this situation moving forward (like you plan to do).

 
One of the nice features in ffpc software, that other sites could implement, is the ability to swap between flex and eligible skill positions even if players have played.

Problem solved. 

 
My only issue is that no other owner could have done this without intervention.  I.E., you were only able to do this because you are the commish.  Nobody else could have(and since their commish was brewing beer, it would have been hours until he even answered the inquiry).

As an aside, this is exactly why I leave my flex spot for the player playing in the latest game.
while this is true....thats the great thing about emails or texts....there is a time stamp....

 
My only issue is that no other owner could have done this without intervention.  I.E., you were only able to do this because you are the commish.  Nobody else could have(and since their commish was brewing beer, it would have been hours until he even answered the inquiry).

As an aside, this is exactly why I leave my flex spot for the player playing in the latest game.
Actually I did not use commish's privileges at all.  That is why my roster is showing as illegal, I did this on purpose so everyone could see and sent an email.

I do agree that I should have left the flex set for the latest player start - I think this is a good learning experience for myself and rest of the league

 
Godsbrother said:
Longtime CBS league among friends.   Rules state you must start 2 RBs, 3 WRs, 1 Flex.

I started  RB Singletary, Josh Jacobs and WRs: Hopkins, Boyd and Woods.   My flex was RB David Montgomery

I was brewing beer all morning and around 2:00 pm I noticed that Jacobs was inactive for his 4:25 game.    I had no other RB that was not locked so I attempted to move Montgomery from Flex to RB and start WR Christian Kirk at Flex.   Since Montgomery played on Thursday night  the app wouldn't let me switch him to RB.

So at this point CBS is saying I have an illegal starting lineup because I have only 1 RB and 2 Flex.  I feel this is a glitch in the software and I should be cool because I am in accordance with our league rule as my lineup has 2 RBs and 4 WRs which is totally legal.

What say you:  did I cheat?  It's no big deal because I am out of playoffs and the only thing on the line is $10 consolation prize in a game that I would have won even without Kirk.
The commissioner can move Montgomery to RB for you - I have done this before and it should cause zero controversy.

 
One of the nice features in ffpc software, that other sites could implement, is the ability to swap between flex and eligible skill positions even if players have played.

Problem solved. 
Yeah I do think it is odd that CBS can't handle this unless it is intentionally that way.

 
Actually I did not use commish's privileges at all.  That is why my roster is showing as illegal, I did this on purpose so everyone could see and sent an email.

I do agree that I should have left the flex set for the latest player start - I think this is a good learning experience for myself and rest of the league
Oh, I totally missed that part.

100% approval then(extra bonus points if the beer ends up being a tasty batch).

 
you have to be careful about where you place your Thursday night guys as players get locked in to whatever slot you put them in....you essentially committed to playing Montgomery as your flex....as a commish if you notified me immediately I would have fixed it for you, but your league may not work that way....
This.  I always make sure that Thur night or early Sun games are where I lock players down.  Leave your flex spot for guys playing Sun late, Sun night or Mon night.

 
Godsbrother said:
Longtime CBS league among friends.   Rules state you must start 2 RBs, 3 WRs, 1 Flex.

I started  RB Singletary, Josh Jacobs and WRs: Hopkins, Boyd and Woods.   My flex was RB David Montgomery

I was brewing beer all morning and around 2:00 pm I noticed that Jacobs was inactive for his 4:25 game.    I had no other RB that was not locked so I attempted to move Montgomery from Flex to RB and start WR Christian Kirk at Flex.   Since Montgomery played on Thursday night  the app wouldn't let me switch him to RB.

So at this point CBS is saying I have an illegal starting lineup because I have only 1 RB and 2 Flex.  I feel this is a glitch in the software and I should be cool because I am in accordance with our league rule as my lineup has 2 RBs and 4 WRs which is totally legal.

What say you:  did I cheat?  It's no big deal because I am out of playoffs and the only thing on the line is $10 consolation prize in a game that I would have won even without Kirk.


To start, I don't think you did anything with the intention of cheating, so by no means is this intended to come across that way. 

That being said, you have an illegal lineup. As others mentioned above, this is exactly why you move Thu/ earlier starting players to the respective positions and not your flex spot. 

If your league rules you need to field a "legal roster" or get a 0 for the week, then your team should score a 0 since the lineup is technically not a legal lineup. Period. However, if your league rules don't specifically state this, then your "illegal roster" is really just something you'd need to run past your league mates (especially since you're commish). And if they're ok with the swapping of spots, then no harm, no foul. Something you should definitely address in the offseason though. 

I've also fallen victim to taking a chance on starting a guy in a later game/ MNF when there was the possibility of him not playing and forgetting that I already had a TNF player in my flex spot. It sucks. But I can tell you that that was the last time I made that mistake. 

P.S. I too am a home brewer (well, it's been a while since I actually brewed with the kids, playing hockey, work, etc...) and Sundays brewing with the tv/ radio in the background listening to football are darn near the perfect day! I hope your beer turns out great and you get this figured out. 

Good luck!

 
I reverted it and by league rules I fined myself $10 and for submitting an illegal lineup.  NO present for christmas this year.

 
Actually I did not use commish's privileges at all.  That is why my roster is showing as illegal, I did this on purpose so everyone could see and sent an email.

I do agree that I should have left the flex set for the latest player start - I think this is a good learning experience for myself and rest of the league
If the roster is being shown as illegal, is your score going to count ?

 
The software is fine and your lineup would have been illegal with the change. You had Montgomery designated as your flex player when his game started so you still needed to fill 2 RB spots and 2 WR slots. The real lesson here is that if you are starting a RB on Thu put him in your RB slot so you keep your flex options open. 

I think the software in all my leagues works the same way and your flex spot was filled when you chose to play Montgomery as your flex player on Thu night.

 
If the roster is being shown as illegal, is your score going to count ?
Yes according to our rules illegal lineups cost $10 fine and lose the score of the player involved.  Since I won by 32 points deducting the 12 points that Kirk scored still gives me the win which again doesn't mean anything since I'm out of the playoffs

 
The software is fine and your lineup would have been illegal with the change. You had Montgomery designated as your flex player when his game started so you still needed to fill 2 RB spots and 2 WR slots. The real lesson here is that if you are starting a RB on Thu put him in your RB slot so you keep your flex options open. 

I think the software in all my leagues works the same way and your flex spot was filled when you chose to play Montgomery as your flex player on Thu night.
Agreed.  I just think it is stupid because the whole idea of FLEX is to be flexible and allow you to play any RB, WR or TE there.  Still, a lesson learned so all is good.

 
The league decides its rules, the board software exists to facilitate play.  The board software doesn't determine the rules unless that's the rule you've chosen as a league.  

In theory that means the lineup change should be legal because the lineup was legal.  But the fact that other people couldn't do the same thing (even if you would have allowed it if they'd posted to the message board before the game) makes it murky.  

If you have ever made this change for anyone else before, then there's a clear precedent and you should make the change for yourself.  

If the league follows the site's standard rules for everything, then you should have followed those same rules.

As commissioner, you have to hold yourself to a higher standard than you would other owners.  Even if you make other changes without using the site - e.g if someone can call in a lineup change while they're on the road - you can't act unilaterally just because there's a precedent for making similar changes. 

I would be ok with you posting to the message board and contacting your co commish and opponent on game day but I'd rather not see that happen in a playoff game. 

The real answer going forward, though, is to have a rule that explains what to do if the site doesn't allow something that the rules otherwise would.  If the answer is "post it to the message board and the commish will fix it" then that's the rule.  If the answer is "if the site doesn't allow it then you can't do it", it's easier for the commissioner but tough on the players.  

Really depends on the people in your league and how they want things to run.  

 
Is your game lineup legal? If it is, what your roster lineup looks like shouldn't matter.

 
In theory that means the lineup change should be legal because the lineup was legal.  But the fact that other people couldn't do the same thing (even if you would have allowed it if they'd posted to the message board before the game) makes it murky.  
Again I didn't use commish privileges to do what I did which is why it was flagged as illegal.  Anyone in the league could have done what I did and as commish I would have allowed it.

Still I agree that I need to be above question so I reverted it and fined myself $10.   All of this was emailed so they all know about it.

 
Here's how I look at these types of situations: how would this have been resolved in the pre-internet days?

(Answer: you would have called up the Commissioner and told him, "Put in Kirk for Jacobs," and he would have said, "Okay.")

 
If your league rules you need to field a "legal roster" or get a 0 for the week, then your team should score a 0 since the lineup is technically not a legal lineup. Period.
Not period.  Exclamation point!!!

He followed the rules as written.  The software is the problem and the only reason he is showing with an illegal roster.

 
If I were commish I wouldn't want to open myself up to future hassles. The fact is that you probably have a rule that says once a players game has started that player is locked. Your Thu player was locked in at your flex spot on Thu so on Sun you still needed to start 2 RB. I would apply it that way and as I said above it is an easy lesson learned on starting your Thu guys at RB or WR and not flex. I am just saying you may want to consider how frequently you would have to make these Sun manually changes if you don't say Thu players are locked in whatever position you had them listed.

 
This is lame.  What are you sposed to do if you have say two RB's to choose from, both later games, and both game time decisions....and let's say both end up being inactive.....you should still be able to plug one in and not be penalized, imo......super ticky tack

 
I think when something isn't specifically dealt with in the rules then you go just go with what the computer does automatically.
this.   He should have had Monty at a RB spot and kept his flex open for sunday moves.   As a commish I would tell the owner I am not changing it, you're in charge of your lineup decisions/placements.

 
this.   He should have had Monty at a RB spot and kept his flex open for sunday moves.   As a commish I would tell the owner I am not changing it, you're in charge of your lineup decisions/placements.
Fair enough and I have no problem with that.  It just came as a surprise to me that "Flex" is not interchangeable "RB" or "WR".   It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me but I am willing to live with it now that I (and the rest of the league) know that's the case.

 
This is lame.  What are you sposed to do if you have say two RB's to choose from, both later games, and both game time decisions....and let's say both end up being inactive.....you should still be able to plug one in and not be penalized, imo......super ticky tack
I think you are misunderstanding the situation. In your scenario you could still plug in either guy up until their game kicks off. In this particular instance the RB played on Thu but was listed in the flex spot. Once the game started the player was locked and happened to be locked into FLEX because that is where he was listed at kickoff of his game. It's pretty standard to lock a player and his position once that player's game starts.

 

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