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Asking My Trump People To Be Better (1 Viewer)

Joe Bryant

Joe Bryant

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I've told folks here before, I have a lot of friends and family who voted for President Trump. 

I know them to be the opposite of the hateful / racist / evil broad brush stereotype some paint for Trump voters. 

Today on my facebook page, I posted the latest thing from Trump about Congressman Dingell at the Michigan rally. And this caption:

I want us to be better than this.

And I know Congressman Dingell told Trump to go to hell a few years ago. Be bigger. Be better.

I think I have a good and objective understanding of why one would vote for President Trump. I get it. Many of my closest friends and family voted for him and will likely do it again and they're amazing people who I love. I know for a fact they're not the vile / racist / evil people the "other" side sometimes paints them to be. I know them to be quite the opposite.

To these folks, know I love you. I admire you. We may differ on somethings politically, but I'M FOR YOU.

But I'll humbly ask you to do this. Don't blindly follow or ignore. I believe that actually hurts "your side" as others see silence as tacit approval. I understand nobody has time to call out everything they disagree with. But find that balance.

Lastly, it's not a sign of weakness to acknowledge a mistake "your side" makes. I think it's the opposite. I know my friends and family who support President Trump are smart and independent and thoughtful. I want us all to be better.
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A friend of mine replied. I know her to be a kind and generous and basically lovely woman. 

Sure Joe. We expect the same in return.
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I replied: 

Thanks. I totally understand that. Here's my thought on that exact thing and I accept that it's pretty radical.

My hope is ALL SIDES be bigger and better. And here's the catch: With Zero expectation we'll receive the same in return. At some point, it becomes about US. I can only control what I say. I hope I can be mostly kind. I can't make someone be kind to me in return.

And I don't want to be dismissive. I fully get what I'm suggesting is radical. And difficult. I'd love for us to try.
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We live in divisive times.  Urging civility and searching for commonality of belief and purpose is difficult in these times. Keep being a voice of reason and reconciliation to the extent possible.  When not, endeavor to leave the bridge you cross to distance yourself from them unburned, it may be needed again some day.  This too shall pass.

 
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bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
this ship has sailed joe....im sorry but if you voted for trump...you deserve all the criticism....he is an abomination and supporting him isnt acceptable any more....we can do better....the gop is dead to me....
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Just voting for Trump 3 years ago is enough? What if someone voted for him, but no longer supports him. Do they deserve all the criticism?

 
Love the spirit of your comments and how you stick to the guns of optimism, compassion, and encouraging people to do better.

Totally agree.

I spoke with a coworker about some drama at work, at how it seems like a big mess and it's a tornado spiraling out of control.  At the end, I encouraged him to ask the question - What will it look like when these immediate difficulties are resolved?  Name them all, there are what, 4-5 different problems going on?  All of which have possible solutions or endpoints...what will things look like then?  Will it still be a terrible situation, or will things have calmed down and returned to normal?  

He took that question and admitted that it's possible this is just a flare up where a lot of stuff is going on in his area, and going wrong, and that pushing through the current difficulty with optimism might see him through on the other side in a better place.

That's how I look at this current situation in politics.  It's bad, on a lot of levels.  Many different problems are stirring in our country.  But I'm encouraged because on the whole, like yourself, most Trump supporters I know are good people who mean well.  But there's a problem in the system.

What will politics look like in 8 years when Trump, for certain, is out of office?  A lot of the key players in today's politics will be out of office, retired, stepped down, defeated.  What will it look like?  Is there hope we return to a more sane version of what we had before?  I think so, and I think it's useful to keep that hope in mind, rather than focus only on the here and now, lamenting how crazy things are as if there's little hope for change for the better.

I think it's bad.  But we've had bad times as a country before.  We've had harrowing periods, periods of uncertainty, hostility, assassinations, enslavement, civil war.  But we've pulled through each time, and this is another time I think we can pull through.  And those of us who focus on the good, will come through in better shape to face what comes next.  Those of us who hold to the principles that make our country great, that unite us rather than divide us, will be there and ready to lend a hand when we come out of this period.

 
My dad voted for Trump.  So did my mom.  And my father-in-law.  These are three of the people I love and respect the most in life.  

I loath Donald Trump.  He is the epitome of what I deem a disgusting person.  

So it's incongruous this love I have for people who voted for somebody I abhor.  But I press on.  I don't stop loving or respecting them because of their vote.  They just view the political landscape differently that I do and that's okay.  It's not easy to always abide by that philosophy, but I do think Joe is right in that we can all do better by and for each other, no matter our political leanings. 

 
adonis said:
Love the spirit of your comments and how you stick to the guns of optimism, compassion, and encouraging people to do better.

Totally agree.

I spoke with a coworker about some drama at work, at how it seems like a big mess and it's a tornado spiraling out of control.  At the end, I encouraged him to ask the question - What will it look like when these immediate difficulties are resolved?  Name them all, there are what, 4-5 different problems going on?  All of which have possible solutions or endpoints...what will things look like then?  Will it still be a terrible situation, or will things have calmed down and returned to normal?  

He took that question and admitted that it's possible this is just a flare up where a lot of stuff is going on in his area, and going wrong, and that pushing through the current difficulty with optimism might see him through on the other side in a better place.

That's how I look at this current situation in politics.  It's bad, on a lot of levels.  Many different problems are stirring in our country.  But I'm encouraged because on the whole, like yourself, most Trump supporters I know are good people who mean well.  But there's a problem in the system.

What will politics look like in 8 years when Trump, for certain, is out of office?  A lot of the key players in today's politics will be out of office, retired, stepped down, defeated.  What will it look like?  Is there hope we return to a more sane version of what we had before?  I think so, and I think it's useful to keep that hope in mind, rather than focus only on the here and now, lamenting how crazy things are as if there's little hope for change for the better.

I think it's bad.  But we've had bad times as a country before.  We've had harrowing periods, periods of uncertainty, hostility, assassinations, enslavement, civil war.  But we've pulled through each time, and this is another time I think we can pull through.  And those of us who focus on the good, will come through in better shape to face what comes next.  Those of us who hold to the principles that make our country great, that unite us rather than divide us, will be there and ready to lend a hand when we come out of this period.
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Love it. 

I think of this too. The awfulness of Slavery is another level. But even in my life, I think of things like this. My mother was a 20 year old 7 months pregnant with me when President Kennedy was killed. I've often wondered how scared she must have been bringing a child into a world so uncertain. And we got through it. 

But not without a ton of people brining their best.

I may be naive but I'm still optimistic. 

 
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I edited my above post but I'll say it here again.

We got through rough times before. 

But not without a ton of people brining their best.

I don't think stuff like this happens in a vacuum. It takes people doing the next right thing. 

 
adonis said:
What will politics look like in 8 years when Trump, for certain, is out of office?  A lot of the key players in today's politics will be out of office, retired, stepped down, defeated.  What will it look like?  Is there hope we return to a more sane version of what we had before?  I think so, and I think it's useful to keep that hope in mind, rather than focus only on the here and now, lamenting how crazy things are as if there's little hope for change for the better.
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I do think the opposing viewpoint espoused by others on this board has some merit too.  If the objective is to get back to the way political discourse used to be, it doesn't feel like we'll get there by pandering to those people that are trying to change it.  At some point, that becomes the manner by which people generally discuss politics and there's no way to go back.

ETA:  Reading this again, I realize that it might be so vague it's nonsensical.  That's because I'm trying to avoid a timeout, sorry.

 
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My friends comment on Facebook that she expected the same kind of "being better" in return was super important I think.

If your behavior is dependent on the other person, real change is difficult. At some point, you have to take the first step.

And I'm not saying it's easy. It's not. It's super difficult. 

But being the bigger person and acting kindly with no expectation of receiving kindness in return is a huge thing. I think that "act without expectation" is maybe one of the biggest and most underrated things I'm seeing of late. 

 
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General Malaise said:
My dad voted for Trump.  So did my mom.  And my father-in-law.  These are three of the people I love and respect the most in life.  

I loath Donald Trump.  He is the epitome of what I deem a disgusting person.  

So it's incongruous this love I have for people who voted for somebody I abhor.  But I press on.  I don't stop loving or respecting them because of their vote.  They just view the political landscape differently that I do and that's okay.  It's not easy to always abide by that philosophy, but I do think Joe is right in that we can all do better by and for each other, no matter our political leanings. 
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You're a good man Gunga Din.

 
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
this ship has sailed joe....im sorry but if you voted for trump...you deserve all the criticism....he is an abomination and supporting him isnt acceptable any more....we can do better....the gop is dead to me....
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GOP the party?  okay.     Individuals that happen to be Republicans?  Hell No.   

I have too many close friends and family that are Republicans and still support Trump.   I don't understand it and won't talk politics with them but I would never cut them out of my life over it.

 
Joe Bryant said:
My friends comment on Facebook that she expected the same kind of "being better" in return was super important I think.

Change never happens when your behavior is dependent on the other person.

And I'm not saying it's easy. It's not. It's super difficult. 

But being the bigger person and acting kindly with no expectation of receiving kindness in return is a huge thing. I think that "act without expectation" is maybe one of the biggest and most underrated things I'm seeing of late. 
Click to expand...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29nIXG5KJYw

I think we all have asked at one time or another, or even lots of times, "What's in it for me?"

 
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fatguyinalittlecoat said:
adonis said:
What will politics look like in 8 years when Trump, for certain, is out of office?  A lot of the key players in today's politics will be out of office, retired, stepped down, defeated.  What will it look like?  Is there hope we return to a more sane version of what we had before?  I think so, and I think it's useful to keep that hope in mind, rather than focus only on the here and now, lamenting how crazy things are as if there's little hope for change for the better.
Click to expand...
I do think the opposing viewpoint espoused by others on this board has some merit too.  If the objective is to get back to the way political discourse used to be, it doesn't feel like we'll get there by pandering to those people that are trying to change it.  At some point, that becomes the manner by which people generally discuss politics and there's no way to go back.
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I think the way we discuss politics now is temporary and a result of us being in a new information age that our society doesn't know how to handle.  We're flooded with information right now, with no real gatekeepers like we're using to having.  Facebook, google, radio, internet, online publishing, self-publishing.  It's a crazy world out there for conspiracy theories, non-fact checked things, lies, propaganda, etc. 

I think we're slowly fighting through this as a society in terms of how we regain some footing on truth, and facts, because we've lost hold of that.  And in that vacuum, tons of propaganda has flooded the information sources, pumped in by hostile foreign governments, and we have folks in power right now who are poorly equipped to understand technology and security and cybersecurity, and anything else modern and digital.  So we're in this middle ground, a no-mans land of technology mixed with society mixed with democracy that we don't yet know how to traverse well.

However, there's a new generation of leaders stepping up, and the old guard is stepping down in large numbers.  Look at all the announced resignations of leaders in congress.  More will lose elections, more will retire.  The younger generation is tired of what's going on, and is better equipped to handle the modern age and forge a new relationship with news, information, democracy and technology.  There's optimism from this group of folks, and while it's not just a year or two out, it's not that far off from gaining the majority in office around the country.

I'm optimistic about the 10 year timeline for the country, but still feel the next several years will be tough.  And in that slog, I'm not suggesting that we pander to folks who are trying to change the tone.  I want folks to fight the whole way.  But do it in a way that we don't sacrifice our values, or twist the way the country is supposed to work, just because we're fighting back against some folks who are behaving poorly and manipulating/abusing the system.  It's possible I'm off on what you're referring directly to though, so please let me know if I'm missing your point.

 
adonis said:
However, there's a new generation of leaders stepping up, and the old guard is stepping down in large numbers.  Look at all the announced resignations of leaders in congress.  More will lose elections, more will retire.  The younger generation is tired of what's going on, and is better equipped to handle the modern age and forge a new relationship with news, information, democracy and technology.  There's optimism from this group of folks, and while it's not just a year or two out, it's not that far off from gaining the majority in office around the country.
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I too have optimism but remember at one time WE were the younger generation that was going to fix things.

 
Joe Bryant said:
But being the bigger person and acting kindly with no expectation of receiving kindness in return is a huge thing. I think that "act without expectation" is maybe one of the biggest and most underrated things I'm seeing of late. 
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This underpins the problem with the "But Hillary" arguments heard so often.

When deflection in the form of finger pointing, is a primary response, you miss the opportunity to improve.  Then it just becomes a blame game without personal responsibility, and generally without a true effort at improving a situation.

Trump embodies a deny everything, other folks are worse, it's someone else's fault, "perfect call", give no quarter, mentality.  A society of folks like this is not a good society to live in, yet that's what his leadership has increased in our society, is a huge uptick in deflection culture, in pointing the finger at other folks, rather than accepting responsibility.  I think it's a major reason our political discourse has devolved so rapidly because this is a major component of it.

 
adonis said:
It's possible I'm off on what you're referring directly to though, so please let me know if I'm missing your point.
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I think you're largely on the right track, but it seems like your thinking is just to wait it out and things will heal themselves.  Ideally I'd like to do something now to accelerate the time line.  Is your view that there's nothing we can do to return to normalcy other than just wait it out?

 
Joe Bryant said:
My friends comment on Facebook that she expected the same kind of "being better" in return was super important I think.

Change never happens when your behavior is dependent on the other person.

And I'm not saying it's easy. It's not. It's super difficult. 

But being the bigger person and acting kindly with no expectation of receiving kindness in return is a huge thing. I think that "act without expectation" is maybe one of the biggest and most underrated things I'm seeing of late. 
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Definitely agree with this, but I feel it needs a slight amendment. I think this leaves it open for someone to think they can use "acting kindly with no expectation of receiving kindness" as a tool to accomplish an ultimate goal of getting the other person to change. Of course, that's kind of contradictory because you are then kind of expecting to ultimately receive kindness.

I think there is a role for each of us to play in helping others be better. But, we must first be better. Not simply acting better in order to get others to act better, but actually being better at our core. And we need to understand our limits. There's a lot we can't do when it comes to helping others.

 
General Malaise said:
I'm anti-Trump.  I could and should be more civil to people who back him.  

We should always be always learning.   
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Same.  I won't lie, I have a really hard time keeping things civil when I see people drop a ❤️ emoji to something vile that Trump says.  Ideally I should ignore it, and the other Trump supporters should condemn it.  I ignore a lot of it, but I don't see much on the other end.... which also might be my bias clouding things.

 
General Malaise said:
My dad voted for Trump.  So did my mom.  And my father-in-law.  These are three of the people I love and respect the most in life.  

I loath Donald Trump.  He is the epitome of what I deem a disgusting person.  

So it's incongruous this love I have for people who voted for somebody I abhor.  But I press on.  I don't stop loving or respecting them because of their vote.  They just view the political landscape differently that I do and that's okay.  It's not easy to always abide by that philosophy, but I do think Joe is right in that we can all do better by and for each other, no matter our political leanings. 
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Well said. Some of my family members voted for Trump, and they know I am not a fan, but to touch on what you said, they view the political landscape differently than you or I do.  Some vote for a Republican no matter what because they are pro-life, some because they want conservatives on the Supreme Court, etc.  Despite what some think, that doesn't mean they are terrible people; it just means they have different priorities when it comes to whom they support and how they will cast their votes.  I rarely get sucked into political talk in real life, but when I do, I never hide the fact that I think almost all politicians are dishonest crooks who only care about their own agendas and personal wealth (even the ones who go into politics with good intentions inevitably get swept away by the money and power that can be gotten), and that I find both the Democratic and GOP parties despicable. 

 
Dickies said:
Same.  I won't lie, I have a really hard time keeping things civil when I see people drop a ❤️ emoji to something vile that Trump says.  Ideally I should ignore it, and the other Trump supporters should condemn it.  I ignore a lot of it, but I don't see much on the other end.... which also might be my bias clouding things.
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Links? You make fun of Trump because you think he wears diapers. Yep, that is civil.

 
John Blutarsky said:
Links? You make fun of Trump because you think he wears diapers. Yep, that is civil.
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Is that his overall tenor, or a moment of diversion, somewhat out of character, and if so why do you bring that one matter up?  Is there no room for a bit of frivolity, a bit of jocularity, a giggle at an incongruous image brought to mind?  If he strives but fails, but keeps striving is that not worthy of encouragement rather than questioning?

 
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fatguyinalittlecoat said:
I think you're largely on the right track, but it seems like your thinking is just to wait it out and things will heal themselves.  Ideally I'd like to do something now to accelerate the time line.  Is your view that there's nothing we can do to return to normalcy other than just wait it out?
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I'm not suggesting we wait it out, I'm suggesting we identify the problems, and work specifically to solve them with a mindset in place that once they're resolved, or at least improved, the other side of the problems will bring us to a much better society.  The opposite view is one where we're facing an untold number of societal, political, and moral challenges which we may never emerge from, with no end in sight, and a permanent change for the worse.

I'd say we have quite a few problems, but none of which have to be permanent, and the long term outlook doesn't have to be abysmal.  I'd identify restrictions on social media or information in some way as a major issue for us to tackle.  Early on in the country, I think there were no libel laws.  Our country had to address how papers were trashing people's lives, and put some restrictions on the way information was used in the country.  I think we have a similar challenge today, with a technology that has emerged in a time where those in charge are ill-equipped to either identify, or resolve the problems.  

I think there's a media problem as well, where our "news' programs have incentives aligned not with giving us the news, but with attracting eyeballs, which causes a lot of problems.  We've addressed as a society media unfairness before, and perhaps we can do it again.

There's an issue with the political tone in washington, lead by Trump.  I think that's certainly a temporary issue, and if you see how many of his supporters in congress have already announced their retirements, and how many more will lose their jobs, or also decide to retire, I think there's hope there as well, but things we can do to lobby, to campaign, to canvass, to donate to politicians who will change the tone.

So in general, we should be clear about what the problems are, work now to improve the problems, to insist on rational and responsible behavior despite other folks not doing it, but not lose sight of the hope that the issues facing us are solvable, and there's a better future ahead.  So I don't advocate just waiting it out, but rather engaging now with the hope that in a few years we'll be in a better place.

 
Godsbrother said:
I too have optimism but remember at one time WE were the younger generation that was going to fix things.
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I think each generation has it's best shot between ages 40 and 60.  

Here's a fact:

The average age of Members of the House at the beginning of the 115th Congress was 57.8 years; of Senators, 61.8 years, among the oldest in U.S. history.
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bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
this ship has sailed joe....im sorry but if you voted for trump...you deserve all the criticism....he is an abomination and supporting him isnt acceptable any more....we can do better....the gop is dead to me....
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So you hate prosperity. Got it.

I'll tell ya, if you totally ignored his crazy rants and all the BS and never picked up a paper and never had tweeter and the other garb at your disposal & just went about your business,

I could ask you 'how's it going'. Your answer would be 'pretty darn good'.

I'd say: "How's that president doing? You'd say, 'I guess pretty darn good'.

You seem to be way too wrapped up in hate. It hardens the arteries ya know.

 
Let me say this: the people in this forum who support Trump often drive me crazy. I don’t get their reasoning, or logic, and sometimes (often?) the arguments they make strike me as so absurd I think they must be trolling. And this is also true of many of their absurd responses to anti-Trump arguments or facts: if I have to read “that simply isn’t true” one more time I will pull out what little hair I have left. 

BUT- that being said, I don’t find them to be uncivil. In fact, all the Trump supporters here are incredibly kind and polite in one on one conversations, and they don’t partake in the kind of personal insults that Trump himself is known for. They strike me as good people. There were a few rude ones around but they’re pretty much gone now; they weren’t made to feel welcome around here and I think that’s a good thing. 

But they do drive me crazy. 

 
timschochet said:
Let me say this: the people in this forum who support Trump often drive me crazy. I don’t get their reasoning, or logic, and sometimes (often?) the arguments they make strike me as so absurd I think they must be trolling. And this is also true of many of their absurd responses to anti-Trump arguments or facts: if I have to read “that simply isn’t true” one more time I will pull out what little hair I have left. 

BUT- that being said, I don’t find them to be uncivil. In fact, all the Trump supporters here are incredibly kind and polite in one on one conversations, and they don’t partake in the kind of personal insults that Trump himself is known for. They strike me as good people. There were a few rude ones around but they’re pretty much gone now; they weren’t made to feel welcome around here and I think that’s a good thing. 

But they do drive me crazy. 
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I have not pictured you, but had I it would have been with a full head of hair.  This surprised me.

 
lod001 said:
So you hate prosperity. Got it.

I'll tell ya, if you totally ignored his crazy rants and all the BS and never picked up a paper and never had tweeter and the other garb at your disposal & just went about your business,

I could ask you 'how's it going'. Your answer would be 'pretty darn good'.

I'd say: "How's that president doing? You'd say, 'I guess pretty darn good'.
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I don't know that this is an argument that really helps you.  It comes across like "If you would just stay uninformed you would think that Trump was great!  Stop trying to find stuff out!"

 
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This topic really strikes a chord with me.  Personally.  A few years ago I got my wake up call.  Every day since, I try to be the best version of myself.  Not always successful.  But over time, that becomes my new normal.  We can change our best.  We don't have to agree on everything.  We can control what we can control.  We can control what we say and do.  On this board, let's be our best.  Frankly, selfishly, you'll be happier. 

 
jon_mx said:
Trump supporters be better than this.  It is really not that hard.  
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The mere fact that they still support him, no matter what, tells otherwise. I'm done with them. They have had numerous chances. They will get no more patience nor respect from me. It's reached a breaking point. It's also going to be a LONG time before I vote for another politician with an R behind their name. That brand is so entrenched in Trumpism it's poisoned and tainted. Like radioactive decay for some time to come.

 
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