Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Sign in to follow this  
Just Win Baby

2019 MVP

Who should win the 2019 MVP?  

66 members have voted

You do not have permission to vote in this poll, or see the poll results. Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

Recommended Posts

Popular opinion seems to be that Lamar Jackson is running away with it. What say you?

Edited to clarify, my poll question is about who *should* win, not who will win, but feel free to comment on both. IMO the question of who should win is more interesting, because it seems like essentially a foregone conclusion that Jackson is going to win.

Edited by Just Win Baby

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is PFF WAR and why it shows Russell Wilson is the MVP

Quote

WHO IS THE MVP THIS YEAR?
So, everyone wants to know: who is the most valuable player this year? Despite Lamar Jackson’s effect on the Ravens (which is sizeable), the most valuable player in the NFL this season has been Seattle quarterback Russell Wilson.

In 908 snaps this season, the eighth-year pro has earned 3.1 wins above replacement, almost a full win more than the next-highest player in Dak Prescott (2.2). What’s most impressive about Wilson is that he’s accounted for over half of his team’s total WAR. Seattle is fifth among all NFL teams in cumulative player WAR through the first 14 weeks of the season, but only 19th if you don’t count quarterbacks.

The other MVP frontrunner, Jackson, is sixth in WAR (1.7 wins) through 14 weeks, as his Ravens are second in the NFL in WAR generated by non-quarterbacks and first in WAR generated by offensive linemen. Thus our grading system, and the PFF WAR model built off it, appears to be capturing the fact that Wilson is doing a great deal of the work for the Seahawks, while the Ravens are more of a team effort.

Russell Wilson and Lamar Jackson are putting the MVP dilemma on display

Quote

Because how, on a team where over one half of the players are among the best at their position, is Lamar Jackson the most valuable player in the league? You would have to maintain the argument that if you took Lamar Jackson out of the game and replaced him with somebody average, like a [insert quarterback besides Mitchell Trubisky], that the Ravens would suddenly be a bad team. And you would have to maintain that argument with a straight face.

 

Edited by Just Win Baby

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

I would still give Wilson the very slight edge, but I think Jackson will win it in a rout. 

What is the basis for giving it to Wilson?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, fred_1_15301 said:

What is the basis for giving it to Wilson?  

I think he is more valuable to his team than Jackson is to the Ravens.  Not that the Pro Bowl means everything (it doesn't), but Jackson has a much better team around him than Wilson does (Baltimore has 11 other Pro Bowlers, Seattle has 1), yet Wilson has his team on the verge of getting the 1 seed in the much tougher conference.  I know it's impossible to know for sure, but the Ravens without Jackson are still a .500 team with a chance to win that division in a down year. Take Wilson off Seattle and they are a 4 or 5 win team. 

 

Edited by Ghost Rider
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Laughing 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, fred_1_15301 said:

What is the basis for giving it to Wilson?  

I already linked two articles that address this.

The crux of it is that the team around Jackson is much better than the team around Wilson. Thus Wilson is more valuable to the Seahawks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Ghost Rider said:

I think he is more valuable to his team than Jackson is to the Ravens.  Not that the Pro Bowl means everything (it doesn't), but Jackson has a much better team around him than Wilson does (Baltimore has 11 other Pro Bowlers, Seattle has 1), yet Wilson has his team on the verge of getting the 1 seed in the much tougher conference. 

 

But the award is going to be based on stats and there is no way that Wilson compares to a historical season from a QB.    :shrug:     And I hear this argument about Baltimore having a much better team but it's not like they have a ton of great talent on offense.  It's Lamar that has made this offense great.  He adds a dimension that we simply haven't seen before.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Just Win Baby said:

I already linked two articles that address this.

The crux of it is that the team around Jackson is much better than the team around Wilson. Thus Wilson is more valuable to the Seahawks.

But we go through this argument every year and I believe that the award is always based on stats.  I don't think it will even be close this year.  :shrug: 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, fred_1_15301 said:

But the award is going to be based on stats and there is no way that Wilson compares to a historical season from a QB.    :shrug:     And I hear this argument about Baltimore having a much better team but it's not like they have a ton of great talent on offense.  It's Lamar that has made this offense great.  He adds a dimension that we simply haven't seen before.

I agree with almost all of that, but that doesn't mean he is more valuable.  Better stats does not always mean you are more valuable. 

3 minutes ago, fred_1_15301 said:

But we go through this argument every year and I believe that the award is always based on stats.  I don't think it will even be close this year.  :shrug: 

I agree that it won't be close, but I think voters, like the media, will be so focused on what Jackson does on the ground that they will ignore everything else, like the fact that he is barely averaging over 200 yards a game throwing the ball. 

Edited by Ghost Rider
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Ghost Rider said:

I agree with almost all of that, but that doesn't mean he is more valuable.  Better stats does not always mean you are more valuable. 

I agree that it won't be close, but I think voters, like the media, will be so focused on what Jackson does on the ground that they will ignore everything else, like the fact that he is barely averaging over 200 yards a game throwing the ball. 

And I agree with everything that you said.  But I thought the intent of this thread was to predict who would win the MVP (not who should win the MVP).  But I may have misinterpreted

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, fred_1_15301 said:

I hear this argument about Baltimore having a much better team but it's not like they have a ton of great talent on offense

Well, the offensive line is part of the offense. The Ravens have one of the best offensive lines in the NFL. Seattle has one of the worst. That is a huge factor that is continually overlooked by casual fans and media.

ETA: Baltimore also has a much better defense and better special teams.

Edited by Just Win Baby

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Just Win Baby said:

Well, the offensive line is part of the offense. The Ravens have one of the best offensive lines in the NFL. Seattle has one of the worst. That is a huge factor that is continually overlooked by casual fans and media.

I agree with you that Baltimore has the better team but it wasn't clear to me the intent of your thread.  Were you asking who "should" be the MVP or who "would" be the MVP?  You may want to clarify that in the original post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, fred_1_15301 said:

I agree with you that Baltimore has the better team but it wasn't clear to me the intent of your thread.  Were you asking who "should" be the MVP or who "would" be the MVP?  You may want to clarify that in the original post.

I edited to clarify. We can discuss both who should win and who will win, but I think it is a virtual certainty Jackson will win, so to me the question of who should win is more interesting.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

I edited to clarify. We can discuss both who should win and who will win, but I think it is a virtual certainty Jackson will win, so to me the question of who should win is more interesting.

Agree with you.  The latter is a much more compelling question.  Definite case could be made for Wilson.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, simey said:

I think Lamar Jackson should win MVP.

I think he should be converted to a WR.

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Using JWB argument, CMac is the MVP. He’s not even playing with replacement level qbs and dominating in near historical fashion.  Move him to a team with a better line and a good defense and he’s probably chasing 3000 yards. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hate to be that guy but it's Lamar in a runaway.  I may be biased as I got Lamar @55-1 and I fully expect to cash.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Just Win Baby said:

Popular opinion seems to be that Lamar Jackson is running away with it. What say you?

Edited to clarify, my poll question is about who *should* win, not who will win, but feel free to comment on both. IMO the question of who should win is more interesting, because it seems like essentially a foregone conclusion that Jackson is going to win.

Did you start this thread before Russell Wilson pooped the bed AT HOME vs the suckassss Cardinals or after?  

 

There isn't a human with a brain alive who votes Wilson over Jackson.  Come on......

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, BassNBrew said:

Using JWB argument, CMac is the MVP. He’s not even playing with replacement level qbs and dominating in near historical fashion.  Move him to a team with a better line and a good defense and he’s probably chasing 3000 yards. 

Doubt it.  On a better team he has a lot less garbage time and check downs.  Honestly, it's very likely his stats are a bit worse on a better team (still would be elite, though).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, elmanx said:

 

3 hours ago, BassNBrew said:

Using JWB argument, CMac is the MVP. He’s not even playing with replacement level qbs and dominating in near historical fashion.  Move him to a team with a better line and a good defense and he’s probably chasing 3000 yards. 

Doubt it.  On a better team he has a lot less garbage time and check downs.  Honestly, it's very likely his stats are a bit worse on a better team (still would be elite, though).

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has to be Jackson.  When you look at his team's success and how integral he is to that success, I don't think it is even close. Yes, CMac has had a great year, but Dalvin Cook and Derrick Henry have both came close to being as good as him all year until injuries the past two weeks, and his team has not been successful.  If you were building a team for one year, this year, 2019-2010, it is hard to imagine anyone not starting with Lamar Jackson.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Despite the name of the award, it’s always given to the best player. No voter ever talks about this nonsense that if you put somebody else in that position what would the team blah blah blah. If you’re honestly going to do that, now you’re going in the speculation and basically making up what you think would happen. Best player in the league this year, Lamar Jackson. Discussion should be over.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Cjw_55106 said:

Despite the name of the award, it’s always given to the best player. No voter ever talks about this nonsense that if you put somebody else in that position what would the team blah blah blah. If you’re honestly going to do that, now you’re going in the speculation and basically making up what you think would happen. Best player in the league this year, Lamar Jackson. Discussion should be over.

Probably not in the top ten best players.  Easily the QB with the best stats on a team that was very successful.  

And yes, I agree he should and will be the MVP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

I think he is more valuable to his team than Jackson is to the Ravens.  Not that the Pro Bowl means everything (it doesn't), but Jackson has a much better team around him than Wilson does (Baltimore has 11 other Pro Bowlers, Seattle has 1), yet Wilson has his team on the verge of getting the 1 seed in the much tougher conference.  I know it's impossible to know for sure, but the Ravens without Jackson are still a .500 team with a chance to win that division in a down year. Take Wilson off Seattle and they are a 4 or 5 win team. 

 

Baltimore isn’t fundamentally different from 2018 when they were a middling team behind Joe Flacco. 
Most observers said their defense was going to be significantly worse in 2019 as well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Leroy Hoard said:

I think he should be converted to a WR.

How many people were subject to this thought just sort of gets my own individualistic dander up. Oof. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would go with MVP as WAR and I'm fine with that. But I'd question how they tie WAR to existing and inarguably quantifiable stats and what is going on on the field. I agree that basic stats don't determine an MVP, but Lamar has looked every bit of the MVP. Russell has been terrific, no doubt, and enough to make me click the link, read the articles, and think. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MVP race was over the night the Ravens plowed through the Patriots.

Couple homer picks here/there for others, but this thing could be the most lopsided MVP vote ever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn’t tout any ranking system that has Dak as #2(giggle). Lamar is clear mvp.  I would vote Thomas as his runner up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"We invented a metric. We didn't test it against anything. It spit out a listing. We published it as if it meant something."

That's what PFF does, mostly.

Any metric which has Jackson as #6 in the league is complete BS. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.