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☹ Official 2020 Las Vegas Raiders thread ☹ (1 Viewer)

massraider said:
I have no strong conviction that both will be there. Just wondering about team fit and preference. 

I don't really take seriously anyone's else's strong take about whether they'll be there or not. There'll be 30 players by round 4 that none of us will believe fall to a certain spot. 

Seems just as likely only Ruggs goes before them as anything else.
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Agreed, you never know. The draft will change dramatically via trade in ways we can't begin to anticipate as well as players will be taken that people did not expect (how did Clelin impact the draft being selected by us last year?). 

That being said, a few weeks ago I felt the chances were good we would have our choice of the two. FA moves made it seem less likely. I also feel the smoke about Denver wanting to move up may have a fire to it. If so, both or even Ruggs too could be gone. I lean more towards not having a choice among the top two at this point than having it, dramatically and think there is a significant chance both are gone if we stay put at 12. 

If that happens, I don't think it is the end of the world. There is a lot of talent at WR this year and if there is a list of  those who can pick it out, Mayock is on that list. Take the best defender at 12 and either trade down 19 or take that WR we feel is a #1 outside of the top 2 or 3. 

 
I'd be happy with either of these two scenarios:

Take Jeudy or Lamb at 12 and Murray or Winfield at 19.  I think Murray and Winfield are going to be great NFL players.  

OR

If one of the big defensive players (Okudah, Simmons, Brown) falls, take that player at 12 and see who is there at 19.  

Some of the guys I like best and more than the consensus in this draft are:

Jalen Hurts, Kenneth Murray, Antoine Winfield, Denzel Mims, Devin Duvernay, Antonio Gibson, Jaylon Johnson.

 
Chadstroma said:
That being said, a few weeks ago I felt the chances were good we would have our choice of the two. FA moves made it seem less likely. I also feel the smoke about Denver wanting to move up may have a fire to it. If so, both or even Ruggs too could be gone. I lean more towards not having a choice among the top two at this point than having it, dramatically and think there is a significant chance both are gone if we stay put at 12. 

If that happens, I don't think it is the end of the world. There is a lot of talent at WR this year and if there is a list of  those who can pick it out, Mayock is on that list. Take the best defender at 12 and either trade down 19 or take that WR we feel is a #1 outside of the top 2 or 3. 
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Agree with this. I think there is a real threat that both Jeudy and Lamb are gone at 12, but if that happens, with so many teams also focused on QB and OL, I feel that if both are gone that means a D stud will fall -- I doubt that will be Okuda or Simmons, but Brown is a possibility as is Henderson, and would be great to shore up our need there, so not the end of the world. Would take Brown over Ruggs; not sure how I feel about Henderson vs Ruggs.

If that's the way it happens, trading down makes sense, but only because I don't know enough to really make a distinction between Jefferson, Mims, Pittman, Raegor, Higgins, Claypool, and Aiyuk. Shenault looks a little dicey to me. Otherwise don't have a great sense of who out of this group clearly stands out as a WR1 above the rest. Maybe Jefferson and Higgins given the competition they faced in college makes them more adjusted to CB1s they will face at the pro level.

I think that if we do get lucky to nab Jeudy or Lamb, trading down for additional picks might still be warranted. But it really depends on who might still be there 6 picks later as we could still see a solid defensive prospect still be there that wouldn't be by the time a potential 2nd round pick came to us. There is a loooooong wait between 19 and our 3rd round picks, so we need to have massive hits with 12 and 19 (if we stay there). 

 
massraider said:
I have no strong conviction that both will be there. Just wondering about team fit and preference. 
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As for fit and preference, it's a really tough call.

Normally I'd say Jeudy as his elite route running and YAC skills are just what we need in a WR1 -- it's the trait we were looking for when we traded for AB. A guy who can cause separation from technique alone, and be adaptable at any WR spot, and could be really great when we run him out of the slot as is the trend du jour in the NFL for WR1s --esepcially in WCOs. The drops -- especially those over the middle -- make me wonder.

With Lamb you may not get those route running skills, but he has incredible ability to adjust on the fly and work back to balls (which might help Carr), and you get physicality to help beat press coverage and fight for balls, and a really solid catch radius.

I still think Jeudy is a slightly better fit, but honestly it's a toss up and both will excel on our squad and make enormous impact on Day 1.

Can't say the same about Ruggs who I think makes an elite slot WR with game-breaking ability after the catch, but as a WR1 may struggle more than Jeudy/Lamb in breaking press and dealing with physical corners, and could even improve hand/eye tracking on deep balls to really take advantage of his speed.

 
I would not be really surprised if Simmons fell to 12.  He's one of those in between players that some GMs aren't sure what to do with, so they pass on them for a single position player.

 
Rumor mill has us giving 19 for Jags DE. Don't know how credible this is. We really don't have the cap space for that guy.

 
32 Counter Pass said:
Heard rumors that Gabe Jackson and PJ Hall are on the block. 
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Jackson has been. They are comfy with Good and Devey as they played well when asked smd then Jackson didn't play as well as in the past and may not be a good fit for what Cable wants to do. Plus the money is significant that it tied into him. It would free us up to do other roster moves and if we can add some draft picks then bonus.

I haven't heard Hall but wouldn't be overly surprised if we shipped him for something in return. 

 
SDJohnny said:
Rumor mill has us giving 19 for Jags DE. Don't know how credible this is. We really don't have the cap space for that guy.
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Based on what we KNOW = about $8 million in cap space (still need to sign the rookies we are about to draft) and his franchise tag is set to be about $17 million.... PLUS we give up.a 1st for him? (Reportedly the Jags want our 12th... go pound sand with that crap)

 
Chadstroma said:
Jackson has been. They are comfy with Good and Devey as they played well when asked smd then Jackson didn't play as well as in the past and may not be a good fit for what Cable wants to do. Plus the money is significant that it tied into him. It would free us up to do other roster moves and if we can add some draft picks then bonus.

I haven't heard Hall but wouldn't be overly surprised if we shipped him for something in return. 
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Lombardi was reporting Hall was on the block.  Not too surprised at either really.  Hall has not shown too much.  Jackson  has been good in the past, but was not very good last year and makes a lot of money.  Maybe it was due to his injury, or maybe not a good fit int he system as you say, but I thought the line played better before he came back last year.  Wouldn't expect too much back in return for either.

 
SDJohnny said:
Rumor mill has us giving 19 for Jags DE. Don't know how credible this is. We really don't have the cap space for that guy.
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Never say never with the Raiders but:

Raiders have a type at DE:

Ade Aruna

79    DE    6-5    263    
Maxx Crosby
98    DE    6-5    255    
Kendall Donnerson
57    DE    6-3    249    
Clelin Ferrell
96    DE    6-4    265   
Arden Key
99    DE    6-5    240
Carl Nassib
DE    6-7    275    27  

Jeremiah Valoaga
94    DE    6-6    275   
Kendal Vickers
DE    6-3    295    

You are taking him as a designated pass rusher, not a 3 down DE. Doesn't smell right.

 
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PFT:

Yes, the Raiders and Jaguars had a conversation on Wednesday regarding franchise-tagged defensive end Yannick Ngakoue. No, it went nowhere. And nowhere is where it likely will stay, at least for now.

Per a source with knowledge of the situation, the biggest impediment to doing a deal isn’t the Jaguars’ trade demands but the player’s contractual demands. The Raiders simply don’t have the cash to pay Ngakoue what he wants, with guaranteed money in 2021 and 2022 being a major part of the problem.

So the situation hasn’t, and won’t, get to the question of resolving a potential impasse between the Jaguars wanting No. 12 and the Raiders offering No. 19. According to the source, the likelihood is that there will be no Ngakoue trade this weekend. Between Ngakoue accepting the tender (a precursor to any trade) to working out a long-term deal to finalizing trade compensation to getting a physical performed, there’s a long way to go and a short time to get there.

 
As the 2020 draft draws near, two names to remember. 

Kolton Miller and Clelin Ferrell 

We have two people in charge who dance to the beat of their own drum. They don't care what anyone thinks, they are going to pick the guys they like, if Jeudy or Lamb is available and they pick one, great! But we need to go into this thing with the mindset that this is the Raiders. No matter what, something crazy and/or unpredictable is going to happen. Shoot, I'd be more shocked if they did the conservative or consensus thing and drafted Lamb/Terrell or a similar WR/CB combo at 12/19.

Happy draft day fellas! Deep breaths.... And most of all, in Gruyock we trust! For now...

 
Thank god.

I mean, Yannick Ngakoue is a very good football player, but this would mean putting us right back in a Mack-type cap situation for a player who, while fantastic, would walk into a crowded position which could mean either underutilization or not being able to further develop the guys we have into the next tour de force at DE.

Add that to the potential of losing a first round pick and a guy with an attitude that airs beefs on social media on a team that just got burnt by a guy with an attitude problem who airs beefs on social media...none of this made sense for us.

I am glad to be part of a timeline where the Raiders kick tires around but ultimately make smart, long-term decisions that leave the team - personnel and cap space wise -- in a fantastic place.

Kind of the opposite of previous regimes, actually.

 
Bruno2 said:
As the 2020 draft draws near, two names to remember. 

Kolton Miller and Clelin Ferrell 

We have two people in charge who dance to the beat of their own drum. They don't care what anyone thinks, they are going to pick the guys they like, if Jeudy or Lamb is available and they pick one, great! But we need to go into this thing with the mindset that this is the Raiders. No matter what, something crazy and/or unpredictable is going to happen. Shoot, I'd be more shocked if they did the conservative or consensus thing and drafted Lamb/Terrell or a similar WR/CB combo at 12/19.

Happy draft day fellas! Deep breaths.... And most of all, in Gruyock we trust! For now...
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Being that Miller has outproduced what what the so called draft experts thought he would and continues to shown improvement and Ferrell had a solid and under appreciated year due to lack of sacks but showed great improvement all year long. Then add in the home runs of Jacobs, Crosby, Renfrow and Moreau with the small glimpse of Abram makes me confident he is too.... unlike any year ever.... I am ok with whatever Mayock does. 

Under Al in the last years it was "no, please, we know your going to go with that speed guy...." and MacKenzie was like a power hitter in baseball who either connected and hit the home run or struck out with the bases full. 

That one draft last year confirmed my excitement about bringing Mayock on board. I defer to his eye for talent and unquestionable work ethic to find the best players no matter who they go with, I am good and look forward to them on the field.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Thank god.

I mean, Yannick Ngakoue is a very good football player, but this would mean putting us right back in a Mack-type cap situation for a player who, while fantastic, would walk into a crowded position which could mean either underutilization or not being able to further develop the guys we have into the next tour de force at DE.

Add that to the potential of losing a first round pick and a guy with an attitude that airs beefs on social media on a team that just got burnt by a guy with an attitude problem who airs beefs on social media...none of this made sense for us.

I am glad to be part of a timeline where the Raiders kick tires around but ultimately make smart, long-term decisions that leave the team - personnel and cap space wise -- in a fantastic place.

Kind of the opposite of previous regimes, actually.
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Yes, it didn't make sense. 

I think there is still a stigma on the Raiders that if it sounds crazy it must be true among the media. 

Do your due diligence. It doesn't hurt to talk. Then make the right decision. Not a huge need, costly for picks and cap space... move on. 

On the Jags part, I would have jumped at 19 and tried to get the deal done. That is great value for him and they will not get better. 12. LOL

 
Chadstroma said:
Being that Miller has outproduced what what the so called draft experts thought he would and continues to shown improvement and Ferrell had a solid and under appreciated year due to lack of sacks but showed great improvement all year long. Then add in the home runs of Jacobs, Crosby, Renfrow and Moreau with the small glimpse of Abram makes me confident he is too.... unlike any year ever.... I am ok with whatever Mayock does. 

Under Al in the last years it was "no, please, we know your going to go with that speed guy...." and MacKenzie was like a power hitter in baseball who either connected and hit the home run or struck out with the bases full. 

That one draft last year confirmed my excitement about bringing Mayock on board. I defer to his eye for talent and unquestionable work ethic to find the best players no matter who they go with, I am good and look forward to them on the field.
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If any of you guys actually pay attention to my half-buzzed ramblings on here I appreciate that. As I've said before, I totally trust what Mayock and Gruden have going. What other choice is there anyway? Mayock is probably one of the smartest personnel guys they have had since Ron Wolf (yes I'm that old). 

I'm hearing now there's a strong possibility they go CB at 12 with Henderson being the target. Which I'd be okay with. Sometimes we forget how bad their defense and particularly the back end has been. They didn't land Jones in free agency so CB is still a huge need, the argument can be made more than WR.

Also, watch for these players with tough back stories like Josh Jacobs last year. These kids like the OT from USC Austin Jackson, who saved his sister's life and DE Gross-Matos from PSU who had to deal with loss at an early age and how they handled real adversity in real life. I get the feeling Mayock puts a high value on the character building from these traumatic events plus the physical gifts these guys possess. And of course, Mayock seems to like Clemson players, may have been a one year fluke, we'll see. But players like Higgins, Terrell and later in the draft Tanner Muse are on my personal watch list.

 
Cle Ferrell is an Everson Griffin type. Those big ends don't get up to 8 sacks till they get stronger, etc.

Griffin had 4 sacks first two years. Cle had 4.5 rookie year.  

I'm optimistic.

 
Suddenly Raider Nation worried we gonna get sniped at WR.

Wr goes in front of us, we could be looking at some combo of Simmons/Henderson.

(tua)

 
massraider said:
Suddenly Raider Nation worried we gonna get sniped at WR.

Wr goes in front of us, we could be looking at some combo of Simmons/Henderson.

(tua)
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Best player available. There is a ton of WR talent in this draft, no need to reach. If the WR's are gone by 12, that means that there is a quality defensive player there. Fistpumping either way.

 
I'm thinking Okudah and Henderson both go top 10.  Okudah for sure and I could see the Jags taking Henderson or the Falcons trading into the top 10 for him.  I'm starting to think there is at least a shot of Simmons falling to 12.

 
With all this talk of Simmons slipping (which I am not sure I totally buy but it is interesting that he is more of gadget/D weapon than a pure, say ILB or OLB), would naturally make me a little nervous about his fit.

But given what I know about Guenther's scheme, that loves to mix up and disguise D-line fronts, tons of twists and stunts, blitzing unpredictably out of 4-down or double-A gap fronts, even exotic blitzing out of odd fronts with 3-5 guys across the line, it almost seems like Simmons could actually be the missing link that makes Guenther's scheme finally succeed -- using him as a utility force that takes advantage of both his athleticism and play-making ability, and our scheme with all of its disguised looks.

Do I think Simmons actually falls? No way.

But when I think about the perfect scheme to utilize Simmons' talent, it strikes me that Guenther's scheme may actually be one of them.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
With all this talk of Simmons slipping (which I am not sure I totally buy but it is interesting that he is more of gadget/D weapon than a pure, say ILB or OLB), would naturally make me a little nervous about his fit.

But given what I know about Guenther's scheme, that loves to mix up and disguise D-line fronts, tons of twists and stunts, blitzing unpredictably out of 4-down or double-A gap fronts, even exotic blitzing out of odd fronts with 3-5 guys across the line, it almost seems like Simmons could actually be the missing link that makes Guenther's scheme finally succeed -- using him as a utility force that takes advantage of both his athleticism and play-making ability, and our scheme with all of its disguised looks.

Do I think Simmons actually falls? No way.

But when I think about the perfect scheme to utilize Simmons' talent, it strikes me that Guenther's scheme may actually be one of them.
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I'm right with you... I'd be ecstatic if Simmons fell. They passed on Derwin James a couple years ago, he would definitely go along way to shoring up the back end of the defense.  Facing Kelce, Fant and Henry twice a year, they need someone to matchup with those guys.

 
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ICON211 said:
I'm thinking Okudah and Henderson both go top 10.  Okudah for sure and I could see the Jags taking Henderson or the Falcons trading into the top 10 for him.  I'm starting to think there is at least a shot of Simmons falling to 12.
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I don't know who but if there is a run on QB's and WR's ahead of us... adding in a couple of OT's... there is going to be a top ten defender there at 12. 

As I said before, if Jeudy and Lamb are gone, I want us to grab that defender and look at the rest of the WR group later.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
With all this talk of Simmons slipping (which I am not sure I totally buy but it is interesting that he is more of gadget/D weapon than a pure, say ILB or OLB), would naturally make me a little nervous about his fit.

But given what I know about Guenther's scheme, that loves to mix up and disguise D-line fronts, tons of twists and stunts, blitzing unpredictably out of 4-down or double-A gap fronts, even exotic blitzing out of odd fronts with 3-5 guys across the line, it almost seems like Simmons could actually be the missing link that makes Guenther's scheme finally succeed -- using him as a utility force that takes advantage of both his athleticism and play-making ability, and our scheme with all of its disguised looks.

Do I think Simmons actually falls? No way.

But when I think about the perfect scheme to utilize Simmons' talent, it strikes me that Guenther's scheme may actually be one of them.
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I don't think he falls. Dude is a beast. That speed with that size and football ability? I would be amazed he falls out of top ten. 

 
Chadstroma said:
I don't think he falls. Dude is a beast. That speed with that size and football ability? I would be amazed he falls out of top ten. 
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Only reason I am not amazed: Positional value. S or LB, not as valuable as all these QBs, OTs, CBs, and DL.  

He shouldn't. But if I pick a crazy dude that falls, it would be him.  

 
Simmons gone. 

Unless there is a trade I believe we get one of the top 2 WR to 12.

Jax, maybe WR

Browns will not

Jets likely WR

 
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SDJohnny said:
Well #@$#%^!
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Whatever, I am so happy ARI didn't go Jeudy/Lamb.

C'mon baby. Browns, don't mess this up for us.

ETA: Don't get me wrong, would have been thrilled with Simmons and him slipping further and further was raising my heart pressure. But I never expected him to be there for us, so hard to be that disappointed.

I would be VERY disappointed if our selection at WR was limited by the time 12 rolled around.

 
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