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☹ Official 2020 Las Vegas Raiders thread ☹ (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Hankmoody
- Start date
Hankmoody
Footballguy
LawFitz
Footballguy
Mayock -
"We think Bryan Edwards is an outstanding X ... He's that big, physical, tough, fast WR on the opposite side ... He can win 1-on-1 ... loved his production in the SEC ...
"Big picture is we wanted to get more dynamic on offense ... at the skill positions ... that really was the plan."
"We think Bryan Edwards is an outstanding X ... He's that big, physical, tough, fast WR on the opposite side ... He can win 1-on-1 ... loved his production in the SEC ...
"Big picture is we wanted to get more dynamic on offense ... at the skill positions ... that really was the plan."
LawFitz
Footballguy
Mayock -
"Bigger picture for John and I ... How to we get more dynamic? ... We were in 2-3 TEs more than anyone in the league ... We're more dynamic, not only on offense, but ... Ruggs is a kick returner and Bowden is a punt returner; and we're really excited about that also."
"Bigger picture for John and I ... How to we get more dynamic? ... We were in 2-3 TEs more than anyone in the league ... We're more dynamic, not only on offense, but ... Ruggs is a kick returner and Bowden is a punt returner; and we're really excited about that also."
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Ruggs dropped a grand total of five passes on 103 catchable his entire college career.
That is damn impressive.
I wonder how many Jeudy had?
That is damn impressive.
I wonder how many Jeudy had?
It's really a nightmare for D's when you throw Renfrow, Waller and one of the RB's coming out of the backfield into the mix and a top 10 run blocking Oline.
Carr's 3rd year in Gruden's system. If Carr can grasp and execute the system ala Gannon it's going to be hard to stop us from getting 1st downs.
Carr's 3rd year in Gruden's system. If Carr can grasp and execute the system ala Gannon it's going to be hard to stop us from getting 1st downs.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
No one concerned about defense? Cool cool cool. Let’s take some more wr, tweener players, on both sides of the ball,, woot woot!
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Our offense gets potentially interesting if these rookies can step up and contribute.
Bowden as a joker in this offense wouldn't be surprising. We did well with Reese in that hybrid role.
Think of 3rd and longish with Ruggs, Williams, Renfrow, Waller, Witten, and Bowden. I can see us opening up space for him to catch the ball and wreak some havoc.
Maybe he just succeeds Richard as a third down back (how's his blocking?) and a ST contributor. Maybe he's the next Sproles. Whatever he will be here's hoping for him making some excitement on the field this season.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Their plan is to beat KC by containing/outscoring, rather than stopping. It might not be the best plan, but at least it's a plan. Woot.
He was a QB in high school and then obviously this last year in college. Have to assume he can read defenses and should be able to pick up blocking. The only thing I don't like about him is you need a coach that knows how to scheme for this type of player, like a Shanahan. We'll see if Gruden can use him naturally. Seems like players like this get put in tough situations where no one on the D is being fooled but Gruden signed off on the pick so he must have a plan.
Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
joey
Footballguy
Nate Burleson with great things to say about Ruggs before the combine....
https://youtu.be/9Te1JkS4KRA
https://youtu.be/9Te1JkS4KRA
Hankmoody
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
I loved the Raiders draft. Stunned they took Edwards immediately after Bowden. I think that was a great move. I'm high on Edwards. But what does happen to Tyrell? I assume as a third-rounder that Edwards will have to win snaps from Williams, so there may not be an instant party in LV for him.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Williams is probably fine this year but Edwards should be a starter in 2022. Gruden should be able to mix and match 5 WRs all game. Near the EZ, Edwards and Williams go in and Ruggs and Renfrow go out. Throw in Bowden for interesting plays occasionally all over the field.
The WR Corp was awful last year and awful is being kind. Even if that group was healthy all season, it would have been a weakness. With Williams and Renfrow injured at times, the group was pitiful. Now there should be depth. Now we can go 4 wide with confidence.
Jayrok
Footballguy
Having seen every snap in his college career, I can tell you that Muse's strength is his run defense. Excellent tackler. His weakness is pass defense. He's played safety and LB. Loves to hit and is fast for his size (his 40 time surprised many). I would not feel that comfortable seeing him cover NFL WRs down field. He needs to work on his feet and getting himself into position to defend balls in the air. But he loves to hit and is good against the run.
He should be a very good special teams guy. I thought he'd go in round 4 or 5.
rockaction
Footballguy
I had Jacobs on my main fantasy teams last year (I was all-in just based on the highlights, hype, and preseason) so I had the luxury of watching a lot of Raiders games. 'Tis true what you say. Their receiving corps was awful. Even Renfrow had the drops at the beginning of the year -- a rough transition to the speed of the pros for him, but then everything seemed to slow down for him, which is something to really look forward to. It's obvious what Ruggs does, I love Edwards for exactly the reason Mayock described, and he's forgotten more football than I'll ever know. I like Williams, though he would disappear from game plans at times. Huge aDOT, if I'm not mistaken, which might be why Carr forgets him at times.
Anyway, I like the draft so far, except maybe the Bowden pick, but his pick is also a character pick by all accounts (meaning those who know him and covered him sort of are in awe of the kid and what he did at college).
Also, it's all on Carr now. These guys will get open. The question is can he deliver it accurately enough and deep enough?
Ed Wood
Footballguy
I'd guess so. They got him as a complementary piece to a 1. They still don't seem to have a 1. I don't think they want to pay $11 million for a 1(b). Restructure maybe?
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
another clemson player! 
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Let's see if any of these guys - vets and rooks - can play before we get comfy jettisoning pieces.
Ty Williams looks expendable given contract and health, but he was clearly ailing most of last year. If he stays healthy this year he might be a strong part of our attack as the rookies learn the system. While I'm optimistic I'm not sold on Agholor until we see which Agholor we got.
I think it's guys like Doss, Gafford, Jones and Ateman who are immediately more expendable than Ty.
At least we have strengthened and deepened our biggest source of lack of offense.
Really want us to shore up depth at DT, LB, CB, and OLG/ORG.
No excuses for Carr or anyone else this year. We need to step up and be a consistent >10 win playoff team. The division got much much stronger all around us as well so AFC West is gonna be an interesting dogfight.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
We are becoming a little predictable thay way but love the pick.another clemson player!
Knock on Simpson is his speed out of his stance but guy looks to be a mauler and profiles a little like Osemele in terms of his game strengths.
And can play at both sides so we have depth this year and a potential replacement for either Incoognito or Jackson in a year or two.
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DocHolliday
Footballguy
Carr will not have any excuses this season. There should be playmakers at every position and even the unknown position with Bowden. The AFC W looks to be greatly improved and should be quite competitive. KC should be SB favorites while Denver and LV duke it out for a playoff birth. The Donks have had a really nice offseason and draft so far. If they found their QB in Lock, they will be a really good football team with a quality O. SD has a stellar D but the O is questionable in places. Still, they aren’t a joke. There are no cupcakes in this division like there has been in other divisions for years. KC may be SB favorites but they have to earn the division title unlike NE did for a decade. NE was guaranteed their division title and home field playoffs before the season started.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Amik Robertson, CB Louisiana Tech.
Love how laser focused we are on positional needs.
The lack of size on this guy may be an issue but seems to make up for some of it with good physicality.
In our scheme that mostly goes nickel D as base, this guy can contribute against the run as well.
Love how laser focused we are on positional needs.
The lack of size on this guy may be an issue but seems to make up for some of it with good physicality.
In our scheme that mostly goes nickel D as base, this guy can contribute against the run as well.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
Had surgery in January for a torn groin. Hope it isn’t an issue. That’s the reason he fell.
joey
Footballguy
As far as I can tell, we're done for the 2020 draft, eh?
unless we trade our way back in for a player we like, I guess.
my only "regret" is the gadget WR/RB/QB pick at 80. Would’ve loved that to be another Defensive player instead. Beside that, who the hell knows who’s going to live up to expectations or not.
As for WRs and Ty Williams....at least Ty has proven it at the NFL level. These rookies have "potential" but have to turn it into real production on the field. So I’m not writing him off yet just because we drafted Edwards. As Stompin' Tom said above...
unless we trade our way back in for a player we like, I guess.
my only "regret" is the gadget WR/RB/QB pick at 80. Would’ve loved that to be another Defensive player instead. Beside that, who the hell knows who’s going to live up to expectations or not.
As for WRs and Ty Williams....at least Ty has proven it at the NFL level. These rookies have "potential" but have to turn it into real production on the field. So I’m not writing him off yet just because we drafted Edwards. As Stompin' Tom said above...
Wurd
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Chadstroma
Footballguy
If that is a direct quote and no further context that is huge. Very interesting for two reasons:
Do they envision this our starting three? If Williams is expected to get edged out then he will be cut for sure.
Interesting they envision Agholar over Renfrow. Agholar is best as slot and Renfrow showed me enough to like him over Agholar in the slot last year. You could see the maturation of his game play from pre and post injury. Very noticeable strides of improvement as a rookie. Agholar may have more natural talent but Renfrow (the most "you don't look like an NFL player" maybe ever) makes it work above and beyond.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
He is just uber bitter and angry. Nothing but negative posts. At some point, you just have to ignore it.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
They wanted to get more dynamic in offense. There was the quote about them running so many two and three TE sets last year.
FA says they were going to double down in that.
Draft says Waller will be the only one seeing a good amount of snaps from the TE room.
I think camp tells them which it is and we will know on final roster cuts.
If these rookies show their worth, the TE group will be a bloodbath. (I bet Moreau gets placed on IR) If they need more development then they will lean on the TE's more than they may want to.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Two CB's that excelled at press in college. Both CB's are heart fully in it and will die fighting you to their last breath kind of players.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
The only vet with a cap number that should be worried is Gabe. If we think we are fine with Richie/Good/Simpson/Devey, he's gone. In fact, typing it out like that, he's probably gone. That 9 mill in cap space might be more important rolled over to next year.
Tyrell isn't getting cut, we would only save 100 grand by cutting him. He'll be gone after this year.
Free agents after this year:
Maliek Collins
Jonathan Hankins
Jason Witten
Nicholas Morrow
Erik Harris
Denzelle Good
Nevin Lawson
Damarious Randall
Nelson Agholor
If they re-sign Good to an extension, we might see Gabe cut soon.
Those FA listed aren't close to the total, bunch of other decisions to make after the year.
Tyrell isn't getting cut, we would only save 100 grand by cutting him. He'll be gone after this year.
Free agents after this year:
Maliek Collins
Jonathan Hankins
Jason Witten
Nicholas Morrow
Erik Harris
Denzelle Good
Nevin Lawson
Damarious Randall
Nelson Agholor
If they re-sign Good to an extension, we might see Gabe cut soon.
Those FA listed aren't close to the total, bunch of other decisions to make after the year.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
First I've seen this as a reason for falling so share the hope it's not an issue.
Like the draft, agree @joey we likely could have looked at D or o line depth value but I can't pretend based on who went afterwards who was a regret we didn't take there instead.
Gabe Jackson is clearly more a liability than a need-to-keep based on trailing performance and contract. But I am not convinced we've seen enough from Good, Devey, et al to think we're all good there. Those guys were solid in relief but sample size is small and I think we still could use a true clear cut dependable replacement starter. Maybe Good continues to develop to be that guy, or Simpson becomes a replacement on either side.
Either way while Jackson looks expendable, and we might even cut him, but I'm not absolutely certain that we have a better replacement at this point.
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SDJohnny
Footballguy
Round 1, pick 12: Henry Ruggs III, WR, Alabama 
Round 1, pick 19: Damon Arnette, CB, Ohio State
Round 3, pick 80: Lynn Bowden Jr., WR, Kentucky
Round 3, pick 81: Bryan Edwards, WR, South Carolina
Round 3, pick 91: Tanner Muse, S, Clemson
Round 4, pick 109 (from Lions): John Simpson, G, Clemson
Round 5, pick 139: Amik Robertson
Coming around on the draft. We'll see if Arnette is a reach or not. I like the idea of turning WR into a strength. I like the dichotomy of Ruggs and Edwards skill set. No reason to cut Williams or Jackson at this point, but if these Rookies guys work out we can go into next year's free agency with an extra $20-30 Million salary cap.
Round 1, pick 19: Damon Arnette, CB, Ohio State
Round 3, pick 80: Lynn Bowden Jr., WR, Kentucky
Round 3, pick 81: Bryan Edwards, WR, South Carolina
Round 3, pick 91: Tanner Muse, S, Clemson
Round 4, pick 109 (from Lions): John Simpson, G, Clemson
Round 5, pick 139: Amik Robertson
Coming around on the draft. We'll see if Arnette is a reach or not. I like the idea of turning WR into a strength. I like the dichotomy of Ruggs and Edwards skill set. No reason to cut Williams or Jackson at this point, but if these Rookies guys work out we can go into next year's free agency with an extra $20-30 Million salary cap.
massraider
Footballguy
None of my draft sims contained Arnette, but a TON of them contained Bowden, Edwards, Simpson AND Amik. For real, all those guys were on my radar. Simpson was rated middle by some geek sites, but Zierlein had him #1. We gonna love that pick. Fits the team, and Dabo said he was one of his favorite player. Probably be here 8 years.
I have small quibbles with the offseason, get them out of the way:
I never thought DLine was on the menu. We only had 7 picks, and we go 4 deep at DE and DT. Getting a top LB seemed ulikely, with the FA moves, but a guy like Muse (or Davis-Gaither) made sense. Muse ain't making any Pro Bowls, but I don't think it was horrible. We added a pick in moving down, and that enabled us tp move up for Simpson (See Gruden? See how that works?). Nickel LB type. He had some really good looking coverage plays at LB, and some really bad ones at SS. OK, you are not a SS, chief.
I didn't know about safety, but you can see a path for Joyner and Randall to both not be here in 21. That's alarming, and two DBs make sense. We are adding Abram, Johnson, Arnete, and Amik to the defensive backfield this year. That is killer!
And I was huge on getting a young guard. Simpson is the safest pick we made, you know the team knows him inside and out. He went to freaking Clemson
I have small quibbles with the offseason, get them out of the way:
- Not trading down for Arnette. I don't think the team takes a sober, 100 foot view of the draft. I think they want their guys, and are not willing to move down, add value, and hedge their bet (At the TOP of the draft). Trading down, you risk losing your guy, but if that happens, you can maybe move again, and turn one player into 3 or 4. That works for Walsh, Johnson, Belichick. Mayock and Gruden get excitable, start imagining everyone wants their guy, and the Arnette pick confirms it. If Arnette is your guy, make the trade down, and get extra picks. Someone drafts him? Well, then, let the draft come to you, and take Patrick Queen, like the freaking Ravens just did. I have no problem with Arnette. Someone find me bad tape of him. It's easier to find bad tape of Fulton and Diggs. I think Mayock is very comfortable moving down in middle rounds, and acquiring more picks, but the 19th spot was a prime place to move down, and I think Gruden just said, take our guy. If you move down, you can salvage a bad pick, by finding a gem with the extra picks you acquired. Raiders act like they assume all their guys gonna hit. Need to hedge their bets where they can. Gruden clearly lets Mayock take the wheel after the first 60 picks.
I never thought DLine was on the menu. We only had 7 picks, and we go 4 deep at DE and DT. Getting a top LB seemed ulikely, with the FA moves, but a guy like Muse (or Davis-Gaither) made sense. Muse ain't making any Pro Bowls, but I don't think it was horrible. We added a pick in moving down, and that enabled us tp move up for Simpson (See Gruden? See how that works?). Nickel LB type. He had some really good looking coverage plays at LB, and some really bad ones at SS. OK, you are not a SS, chief.
I didn't know about safety, but you can see a path for Joyner and Randall to both not be here in 21. That's alarming, and two DBs make sense. We are adding Abram, Johnson, Arnete, and Amik to the defensive backfield this year. That is killer!
And I was huge on getting a young guard. Simpson is the safest pick we made, you know the team knows him inside and out. He went to freaking Clemson
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
bitter? yes. i've been a raider fan for life. angry? nah.
i'm on record as a gruden hater. for sure. i refuse to blindly follow him. i like mayock a lot, but feel that gruden is always the final say. no matter what. 100 mil and all.
here's the draft as i see it
ruggs(aka old spice) -- he's super fast. he's small. most thought he would be the 3rd wr taken. doesn't seem to be a true #1 and with 10 wr's now on the roster, i don't think there currently is one.
i'm hopeful of this pick, would have preferred lamb or juedy.arnette -- played db for OU, opposite a stud, so got a lot of attention and did well. tough. may lack the needed speed. bit of a reach, but i like this pick, would have preferred to trade down, but i like it.
bowden -- rb? wr? great athlete. questionable character. this pick screams gruden. and gruden's days of being an offensive genius are behind him historically, these type of players, don't do much in the NFL. i hate this pick. would have preferred bpa on defense or bpa o-line
edwards -- love this pick. only real concern is injuries. small knee issue and then a foot issue. i hate feet issues. i think him, more than ruggs, will force williams out.
muse -- another guy, without a position. pretty good athlete, high motor guy. smells like a gruden pick. i think he went way too high, there were better options at the same positions available. we'll see
simpson -- another clemson guy!!
big strong grinder. solid pickrobertson -- small. tough. injury is always a concern. some character concerns. but this is a good pick.
C+ - B- from some knob on the internet.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
No!bitter? yes. i've been a raider fan for life. angry? nah.
i'm on record as a gruden hater. for sure. i refuse to blindly follow him. i like mayock a lot, but feel that gruden is always the final say. no matter what. 100 mil and all.
here's the draft as i see it
ruggs(aka old spice) -- he's super fast. he's small. most thought he would be the 3rd wr taken. doesn't seem to be a true #1 and with 10 wr's now on the roster, i don't think there currently is one.
arnette -- played db for OU, opposite a stud, so got a lot of attention and did well. tough. may lack the needed speed. bit of a reach, but i like this pick, would have preferred to trade down, but i like it.
bowden -- rb? wr? great athlete. questionable character. this pick screams gruden. and gruden's days of being an offensive genius are behind him historically, these type of players, don't do much in the NFL. i hate this pick. would have preferred bpa on defense or bpa o-line
edwards -- love this pick. only real concern is injuries. small knee issue and then a foot issue. i hate feet issues. i think him, more than ruggs, will force williams out.
muse -- another guy, without a position. pretty good athlete, high motor guy. smells like a gruden pick. i think he went way too high, there were better options at the same positions available. we'll see
simpson -- another clemson guy!!
robertson -- small. tough. injury is always a concern. some character concerns. but this is a good pick.
C+ - B- from some knob on the internet.
OSU. Or THE OSU. Or DBU.
And if you measure Ruggs as a WR straight up with Jeudy or Lamb you're gonna be disappointed. He'll get his numbers, but the biggest thing he'll do is spread the defense out and open it up for everyone else. He's not a gadget guy exclusively but he'll get gadget touches to further keep the defense on the move and maybe he'll even be used on returns putting more pressure on opponents' advance scouting. Putting Lamb at the X is great and all and he'll catch more passes and yards and maybe TD's but he won't have the overall impact on making the D prepare, adjust, and execute. If he went to Detroit or Minnesota or somewhere else boring I'd call it a bad pick but to a presumed creative offensive genius type guy this should be a huge overall impact.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
we'll see. i'm having percy Marvin, tavon austin nightmares. i think he'll be better than that. just nervous. freaking AL speed at all cost flashbacks
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
i don't trust gruden to be innovative. he still runs that fake jet sweep, full back blast, in very predictable situations. and yes, harvin was pretty awesome until he got hurt. but, a lot of his value, was in returning kicks. i don't see a 1st rounder returning kicks. especially with Bowden, renfrow, richard, et all needing touches.
massraider
Footballguy
I have seen enough video replays to think Gruden schemes very well out of the WCO, he had some very average tools recently.
BAL type scheming, no.
But creating mismatches with play design, yes.
BAL type scheming, no.
But creating mismatches with play design, yes.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
Per Field Yates:
A look at the final personnel in the Khalil Mack trade with all of draft picks exchanged now made:
Bears receive: OLB Khalil Mack, TE Cole Kmet, G Arlington Hambright
Raiders receive: RB Josh Jacobs, CB Damon Arnette, WR Bryan Edwards, a 6th rounder used in Kelechi Osemele deal
Raider fans still support this move?
A look at the final personnel in the Khalil Mack trade with all of draft picks exchanged now made:
Bears receive: OLB Khalil Mack, TE Cole Kmet, G Arlington Hambright
Raiders receive: RB Josh Jacobs, CB Damon Arnette, WR Bryan Edwards, a 6th rounder used in Kelechi Osemele deal
Raider fans still support this move?
higgins
Footballguy
Not a “fan” fan but you need to include salary cap health ramifications along with the players (short- and long-term).
One
Not Allowed In Mexico
You’re missing 2 HUGE things. 1. Paying Mack and 2. He didn’t want to come back.
ICON211
Footballguy
I've never been a fan at looking at a trade based on who the picks are used on. Besides, four of these guys haven't even played a down in the NFL. So the trade sucks right now, but if Arnette and Edwards turn out to be all pros the trade is a good trade? Did the trade make sense and did the team get good value at the time of the deal....that's how I look at trades.
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