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☹ Official 2020 Las Vegas Raiders thread ☹ (1 Viewer)

Stinkin Ref said:
I know zero about him....thats the point...
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If that's your point you are clearly missing it.

Stinkin Ref said:
involved can be a word with an awful lot of gray area......we all realize since he is the "golden ticket" for pretty much anybody and everybody that he is related to or associating with that the spin is going to be "it wasn't his house, or he wasn't really living there"...."he had nothing to do with the drug buys or the weapons, etc".....and some will sit with a straight face and actually believe it....and I guess I would ask, if you really don't think he was "involved".......why then would he need to " leave that life in his rear view mirror"....?.....insert "just happened to be wrong place wrong time" excuse here___________......

I'm saying this all tongue in cheek, cause he very well may have "nothing to do with any of it"......but he probably knows and is involved more than you think since he is the straw that is probably stirring  the drink in that family/friends circle.....and lol.....always fun when "grandma" gets hemmed up in this stuff...
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There are sweeping generalities across this post in general, but notice the bolded where you take something that is completely unknown to us all as to what's going on in Bowden's life, that house, and this situation, yet you claim we know he's a "golden ticket" to those around him, that they will start making excuses, that he knows AND is involved more than we think.

Diametrically opposed to:

I won’t say what I think he is involved in or what he isn’t
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I am not sure there is anything tongue in cheek behind multiple statements where you presuppose to know the situation. 

As to the underlined portion, seems entirely plausible - and rational - that a guy growing up in a rough area in a rough town, having incredible athletic talent since he was young, and finding a way out of the situation through sports (via college recruitment, turning pro) would want to leave that behind period.

Not sure how that means in any way that he is involved, which by all accounts looks to be your stance.

 
Hankmoody said:
You're ridiculous.  Not sure and don't think both show uncertainty, these aren't conflicting statements at all.
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If you are not sure about his past relationships....that means you really don't know much about him.....so to then profess that you don't think he is involved in drugs or anything....kinda  indicates that you do seem to think you know quite a bit about him....

you know nothing about his friends and what he does and who he hangs out with.....yet you do know he is not involved in drugs or anything......?....thats all I'm saying

 
Stinkin Ref said:
If you are not sure about his past relationships....that means you really don't know much about him.....so to then profess that you don't think he is involved in drugs or anything....kinda  indicates that you do seem to think you know quite a bit about him....

you know nothing about his friends and what he does and who he hangs out with.....yet you do know he is not involved in drugs or anything......?....thats all I'm saying
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Please link to past posts you've made condemning the Tyreek the Freak when news broke of him breaking his toddler's arm. If you can, then by all means, carry on witch hunting. If you can't, then please do a solid, and go back to your bridge. That's all I'm saying

 
Stinkin Ref said:
If you are not sure about his past relationships....that means you really don't know much about him.....so to then profess that you don't think he is involved in drugs or anything....kinda  indicates that you do seem to think you know quite a bit about him....

you know nothing about his friends and what he does and who he hangs out with.....yet you do know he is not involved in drugs or anything......?....thats all I'm saying
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We don’t know much about the relationships for any of the rookies.   KC fans don’t know much about the relationships of their rookies,   Same with Denver.   And all the other teams and their rookies too.   I don’t know what Bowden was doing but I do know things were happening in the house that could derail his NFL career.   

 
Stinkin Ref said:
If you are not sure about his past relationships....that means you really don't know much about him.....so to then profess that you don't think he is involved in drugs or anything....kinda  indicates that you do seem to think you know quite a bit about him....

you know nothing about his friends and what he does and who he hangs out with.....yet you do know he is not involved in drugs or anything......?....thats all I'm saying
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Those two things are not the same.  You're ridiculous.

 
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Ed Wood said:
Seventh worst in the NFL, huh? How about seventh best--MINIMUM. I'd argue seventh best in all four major sports. It's a classic, along with the colors.
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I don’t agree with that list at all.

Raiders have an excellent logo. The colors are icing on the cake. 
 

The Cowboys made this list somehow?!? That is absurd. 
 

This list is basically some of the most historic franchises/logos in the league. If it’s not broke don’t fix it. Chargers are excellent... 

You want stupid, yes AZ is bad, LARs new logo is atrocious, Jets are pretty bad but classic. Ravens I actually like but I can see it being one of the bottom 10.

Raiders belong in the top 10... 

 
RIP Joe Bugel.

Obviously should be remembered as a legendary o line coach, architect of the Hogs, and patron saint of Clinton Portis (what Bugel did with a 2007 injury-riddled Swiss cheese of a line for Portis and that offense is miraculous). Bugle had 3 years with us, one as a 4-win HC, so his legacy is firmly more in Washington's burgundy and gold than the Silver Black, but Once a Raider, Always a Raider.

Mark Davis the lone dissenter in tarping off at least the first 8 rows if/when the season starts. One one hand, good for him for thinking about the fans. This is clearly a proposal to help protect players and staff, but it's a weird one for fans -- the people who paid highest get screwed (either because like in Vegas, there are no other seats to move them to, or you get moved to a likely much worse location). It's also weird that fans are kept away from players to prevent infecting them, but are free to infect each other in all other rows.

Honestly, I wouldn't be rushing out to a live game, NFL or otherwise, anytime soon. Even if the season opens in 75 or so days, no way I'd be ready to plop myself in the middle of that until we are in a much safer spot overall in this country, COVID-wise.

 
Chadstroma said:
Reports that we have offered Clowney a deal. Sounds like it is lower than what the Browns and Titans have offered. 
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Looks like it was reported (in this source anyway) by FBG's own Cecil Lammey.

Agree we don't have tons of cap space to get cute, and sounds like we threw out an offer we can make work, but one not likely to be taken. Why would Clowney accept a lowball offer when he apparently is fine taking his sweet time to sign and make sure the deal he gets is right? I believe he may have adjusted his initial expectations downwards but not by this much.

Would love to have him, but if I'm honest I'm fine without him -- he's been solid but not spectacular at this level, a multiple pro bowler but certainly not anywhere near the hype he had coming out of SC. At this price, it would be great but not holding my breath, and not confident that if he did sign with us at bargain basement prices he'd stay healthy enough to be a consistent force for us.

 
32 Counter Pass said:
That is surprising. The Raiders don’t appear to have the cap room needed to.sign JC. They have less than 9 million in cap space.
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They also have a number of players with decent but non-guaranteed contracts who could be cut immediately without a cap hit (Erik Harris at $3 MM, e.g.) and a number of others with semi-large contracts who don't have guarantees or dead money beyond this year who could be restructured to reduce this year's cap hit by converting to a signing bonus and kicking their dead money can a few years (T.Williams, Joyner, GabeJax).

Bottom line is they have quite a bit of underlying cap flexibility, despite the headline number. BUT I read that both Mayock and Davis are rejecting Gruden's strong push to offer Clowney more money, and they are instead trying to stick a lowball. I am down for that. $11-14 MM 1 yr deal. Let him walk next year and take a comp 3rd rounder as a result. That would be outstanding business.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Why would Clowney accept a lowball offer when he apparently is fine taking his sweet time to sign and make sure the deal he gets is right?
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His fine time is ticking down by the week. Camps are around the corner. Not vital for a veteran, but could be a key for a guy looking to stick a landing with a new team.

Vegas offers some potentially compelling offsets to the lowball figure:

1. No state income tax. No idea what that figure is in Ohio, but in TN it's 0% as well, I think; so perhaps only relevant against the Cle bid.

2. One-yr deal, allowing him to re-test free agency next year, especially if he can make a big splash this year - extending the earlier stated ticking time clock.

3. Multiple primetime games on the schedule already and potentially more to come - LOTS of eyeballs on Vegas this year. Definitely way more than Cle/Ten.

4. Young, up-and-coming roster (even on D) + very powerful players' head coach + highly respected DL coach + ascending GM

I see room for a lowball pitch to potentially hit, if done well.

 
I don't expect him to come to us. But I like putting out an offer and sticking to it as what we want to do. If it works, great and if he goes elsewhere, great. He would add to our team for sure but he isn't transformational by any stretch. I am not sure if it was the injury or if he just was over rates as a college prospect but he has never been able to live up to the expectations. Even when he was healthy and JJ Watt was healthy (where offenses had to key in on JJ) he played very well at times but not a total game wrecker that he was thought to be coming out. 

I believe the teams in the mix are the Titans, Browns and Seahawks.

With TENN run last year, if he wanted to go with the best chance to win then he could go there and he has familiarity with their HC. The Browns are talented on paper but can't seem to ever put it together but it sounds like they are offering the most money. The Seahawks are said to be interested but it doesn't sound like their offer is blowing anyone out of the water. All are significantly lower than his initial asking price. 

 
I think Clowney is actually underrated.  He does not have huge sack totals, but he gets to the QB a lot and demands attention.  Tons of pressures and hurries and he plays the run well.  He also can take over a game like he did last year vs the 49ers.  I would love to see him on the Raiders.  

 
ICON211 said:
I think Clowney is actually underrated.  He does not have huge sack totals, but he gets to the QB a lot and demands attention.  Tons of pressures and hurries and he plays the run well.  He also can take over a game like he did last year vs the 49ers.  I would love to see him on the Raiders.  
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Clowney is a victim of a single hit rocketing his perceived value into the stratosphere. The guy is unquestionably good but prior to the draft there was expectations of a generational player that was compared to all time greats like LT/Reggie White. He is also a victim of a paltry sack total in an era where players are vying to break a single season record since 2011 (Allen, Houston, and Donald came close, with Shaq Barrett, Watt, and Mathis not being that far off). He also suffers from being oft-injured (only played a full season once so left a lot of games on the table).

That said, I think he is overrated. And has yet to show the kind of consistency that earns him the rep he wants. Houston franchised him but then traded him away for nothing (2 bacf-up LBs and a 3rd round pick). Seattle brought him aboard to turn around their pass rush and ended up with the worst points allowed since Pete Carroll's first year as head coach. 

Not sure what we offered but would be surprised if it was above the $8M he got paid by the Seahawks. We make team-friendly offers with good terms, and can see us putting a 1-year prove it deal on the table.

For me, that's about what he's worth, and even then, he still needs to show he can be anywhere near the dominant force he was thought to be coming out of SC.

 
ICON211 said:
I think Clowney is actually underrated.  He does not have huge sack totals, but he gets to the QB a lot and demands attention.  Tons of pressures and hurries and he plays the run well.  He also can take over a game like he did last year vs the 49ers.  I would love to see him on the Raiders.  
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You just described Clelin except for we haven't seen him take over a game. 

 
Apparently with the Browns restructuring Vernon, expectations are they are no longer interested. 

Clowney should get a deal done with someone before the deals dry up even further.

 
Chadstroma said:
You just described Clelin except for we haven't seen him take over a game. 
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True and I like Clelin a lot.  Can't have enough good defensive players though.  I think he was overrated coming out of college and now he is underrated because he didn't turn out to be Bruce Smith.  I think we can all agree that at the right price he would be a great addition.

 
Man, we're hurting for Raiders news, and football news in general, when a Raiders-related headline in FBG daily newsletter is that Chad Johnson (yes, that Chad Johnson, who last played for the Pats in 2011) said he’s going to Vegas to try out for the Raiders. Only to have a Raiders spokesperson say they have no knowledge of a workout scheduled. 
 

Im all for social distancing and precautions related to the NFL preseason, but, man, I hope they can work out a training camp schedule and a few preseason games. This is brutal. 

 
joey said:
Man, we're hurting for Raiders news, and football news in general, when a Raiders-related headline in FBG daily newsletter is that Chad Johnson (yes, that Chad Johnson, who last played for the Pats in 2011) said he’s going to Vegas to try out for the Raiders. Only to have a Raiders spokesperson say they have no knowledge of a workout scheduled. 
 

Im all for social distancing and precautions related to the NFL preseason, but, man, I hope they can work out a training camp schedule and a few preseason games. This is brutal. 
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Training camps are still scheduled to start in 3 weeks, no? 

 
rockaction said:
Agreed. The re-opening has been a      :tfp: from the locomotive to the caboose
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To me it's not so much about a train-wreck -- the NFL, unlike MLB, NBA, and the NHL, has a little more time as the true season doesn't start until September. While I agree it's been far from cohesive planning, they still have wiggle room in their schedule.

What I think is going to happen -- especially with spikes over the last 10 days being the highest recorded cases per day since this began -- is that the "bubbles" that are being established will be pierced, infection will show up within these leagues, and they will be forced to push off dates further or cancel altogether. I believe it will be the latter as leagues realize that there is too much at risk, but they will only see that when initial attempts fail.

I try to be hopeful, but with things looking so much worse than they've ever been, and all within less than the last two weeks, I think we're in for much worse before it all gets better.

 
SDJohnny said:
https://sports.yahoo.com/source-chiefs-agree-to-4-year-85-million-extension-with-dt-chris-jones-174741590.html

How the hell did they manage this? Damnit. 😡
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Chiefs have managed some flexibility to do this, so it's sound cap management in terms of how they structured Mahomes' deal to swing this.

The issue will come to bear much more quickly if the salary cap doesn't continue to climb in the next year+ -- if it plateaus or even falls (has it ever fallen?) then this gamble bites their rear pretty hard.

And even if the cap does continue to rise, that's a lot of eggs they sank into two baskets that's going to constrict them at some point. They may pivot to how the Patriots found ways of bringing new people in on cheaper deals and letting more expensive people walk even if they were performing well. They may fall apart like the Rams did.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Chiefs have managed some flexibility to do this, so it's sound cap management in terms of how they structured Mahomes' deal to swing this.

The issue will come to bear much more quickly if the salary cap doesn't continue to climb in the next year+ -- if it plateaus or even falls (has it ever fallen?) then this gamble bites their rear pretty hard.

And even if the cap does continue to rise, that's a lot of eggs they sank into two baskets that's going to constrict them at some point. They may pivot to how the Patriots found ways of bringing new people in on cheaper deals and letting more expensive people walk even if they were performing well. They may fall apart like the Rams did.
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Mahomes is still on rookie deal. The money on that extension doesn't kick in until after next year I believe. Makes a huge difference. In twi years they will be tight plus having the young weapons coming up on time to do deals. They will have hard choices soon. 

 
Chadstroma said:
Mahomes is still on rookie deal. The money on that extension doesn't kick in until after next year I believe. Makes a huge difference. In twi years they will be tight plus having the young weapons coming up on time to do deals. They will have hard choices soon. 
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They are primed to win a lot for the next two years and will then have to part ways with some talent.   Not a bad place to be.   

 
DocHolliday said:
They are primed to win a lot for the next two years and will then have to part ways with some talent.   Not a bad place to be.   
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Yea, wasn't a judgement. Just explaining the deals. Theh could do these deals because the money is being ate up at different times. In two years, it will get much tougher for them. 

 
We will force those hard choices to be made earlier than two years from now when we sweep our first home/away series this season with our revamped team.

:boxing:

I mean, a guy can dream, right?

The dream right now may be more about actually playing them twice during an actual full regular season this year, not the pipe dream of us beating them twice.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
We will force those hard choices to be made earlier than two years from now when we sweep our first home/away series this season with our revamped team.

:boxing:

I mean, a guy can dream, right?

The dream right now may be more about actually playing them twice during an actual full regular season this year, not the pipe dream of us beating them twice.
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Yup. Baby steps. This year we simply play 2 games against the Chiefs. Next year, we sweep! ;)  

 
joey said:
Yup. Baby steps. This year we simply play 2 games against the Chiefs. Next year, we sweep! ;)  
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I am more doubtful about COVID and playing a full season than I am about our ability to beat the Chiefs this year (even if they are coming off a Superbowl) -- if we do play them twice, I say we go out and sweep them like we did in 2010 when we were an 8 win team and they were a 10 win team.

As I said, a man can dream. History is not on our side overall in terms of our W-L record. They've consistently owned us more than not since the 90s.

 
after seeing KC lock down what looks to be a generational talent at QB for the next 10-12 years......and then sign their best defensive player for at least the next 4.....for pretty massive contracts....the easy and somewhat lazy narrative from the rest of the league and especially the division rivals....is that "well it will catch up to them down the road and they won't be able to keep and/or bring in other good players".....so the team will suck in a few years, because you know, they can't afford to pay everybody right?....however indications are that that exact thought process was factored into Mahomes deal in particular to make sure that would not be the case....it appears KC may be a little ahead of the curve here and the key player, coaches, and front office are on the same page and working together....I have a feeling that many will be disappointed if they think KC is just being selfish in the short term and not looking to be able to sustain long term success....this team continues to draft pretty well, makes significant timely FA signings (Dwilly, Badger, Watkins, and Clark recently) has a great group of coaches (even tho many have left recently for head coaching gigs), has a solid front office, GM and ownership....their "eventual demise" may be more of a hope than a reality.....and hope is not a very good strategy....this team has been dominating the west since Manning left (albeit with little playoff success until recently).....it hasn't been all about Mahomes.....they have kind of been doing things the right way for several years now.....not sure they are all of a sudden not going to know what the hell they are doing....

 
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Stinkin Ref said:
after seeing KC lock down what looks to be a generational talent at QB for the next 10-12 years......and then sign their best defensive player for at least the next 4.....for pretty massive contracts....the easy and somewhat lazy narrative from the rest of the league and especially the division rivals....is that "well it will catch up to them down the road and they won't be able to keep and/or bring in other good players".....so the team will suck in a few years, because you know, they can't afford to pay everybody right?....however indications are that that exact thought process was factored into Mahomes deal in particular to make sure that would not be the case....it appears KC may be a little ahead of the curve here and the key player, coaches, and front office are on the same page and working together....I have a feeling that many will be disappointed if they think KC is just being selfish in the short term and not looking to be able to sustain long term success....this team continues to draft pretty well, makes significant timely FA signings (Dwilly, Badger, Watkins, and Clark recently) has a great group of coaches (many have left recently for head coaching gigs), has a solid front office, GM and ownership....their "eventual demise" may be more of a hope than a reality.....and hope is not a very good strategy....this team has been dominating the west since Manning left.....it hasn't been all about Mahomes.....they have kind of been doing things the right way for several years now.....not sure they are all of a sudden not going to know what the hell they are doing....
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I think you are in the wrong thread.  I assume there is a Chiefs thread.  

 
Stinkin Ref said:
after seeing KC lock down what looks to be a generational talent at QB for the next 10-12 years......and then sign their best defensive player for at least the next 4.....for pretty massive contracts....the easy and somewhat lazy narrative from the rest of the league and especially the division rivals....is that "well it will catch up to them down the road and they won't be able to keep and/or bring in other good players".....so the team will suck in a few years, because you know, they can't afford to pay everybody right?....however indications are that that exact thought process was factored into Mahomes deal in particular to make sure that would not be the case....it appears KC may be a little ahead of the curve here and the key player, coaches, and front office are on the same page and working together....I have a feeling that many will be disappointed if they think KC is just being selfish in the short term and not looking to be able to sustain long term success....this team continues to draft pretty well, makes significant timely FA signings (Dwilly, Badger, Watkins, and Clark recently) has a great group of coaches (many have left recently for head coaching gigs), has a solid front office, GM and ownership....their "eventual demise" may be more of a hope than a reality.....and hope is not a very good strategy....this team has been dominating the west since Manning left.....it hasn't been all about Mahomes.....they have kind of been doing things the right way for several years now.....not sure they are all of a sudden not going to know what the hell they are doing....
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You may very well be right, but right now we have no idea what the COVID impact from this year will be on the salary cap in the next few years.  There is a chance this hurts teams with players on huge contracts more than others.

 
ICON211 said:
You may very well be right, but right now we have no idea what the COVID impact from this year will be on the salary cap in the next few years.  There is a chance this hurts teams with players on huge contracts more than others.
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I would assume there is some language in these multi million/half a billion dollar contracts that addresses any radical/even minimal changes to the salary cap.....don't ya think...?

 
Stinkin Ref said:
I would assume there is some language in these multi million/half a billion dollar contracts that addresses any radical/even minimal changes to the salary cap.....don't ya think...?
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Maybe, I haven't read Mahomes contract or what the true guarantees are.  Depending on how big the impact and on how many years the league and NFLPA agree to spread the COVID impact revenue decline some teams may have to make some major cuts.

 
Stinkin Ref said:
there were just 9 recent posts about KC on this very page.....am I not allowed to participate....or did you just not like what I had to say....
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If you were really paying attention,  you would know that on this page I stated that the Chiefs are primed to win a lot of games over the next two years and will then have to make some talent decisions which is not a bad place to be.  

Your post just seemed odd in a Raiders thread since it contained a lot of words about the Chiefs and most Raider fans don’t care enough about the Chiefs to read a giant paragraph about KC.   Maybe get to the point sooner in the future?

 
DocHolliday said:
If you were really paying attention,  you would know that on this page I stated that the Chiefs are primed to win a lot of games over the next two years and will then have to make some talent decisions which is not a bad place to be.  

Your post just seemed odd in a Raiders thread since it contained a lot of words about the Chiefs and most Raider fans don’t care enough about the Chiefs to read a giant paragraph about KC.   Maybe get to the point sooner in the future?
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:lmao: .....I think real raider fan cares more about the Chiefs than you think...and they probably should.....

some posters are hoping for a KC demise in a few years.....I thought I made some accurate and very good points about a division rival....sorry if it was “odd”or too long....didn’t know there were special rules in the official raider thread....sorry if I hit a nerve and said something raider fan doesn’t want to hear.....sometimes it’s good to get an outsiders (non homer) point of view...your reply was pretty much a “get out of here” response....I must have missed the email that says it has to be all puppies and silver and black rainbows to post....on a football message board you would think some challenging points of view would be welcome....my bad......... :banned:

 
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Stinkin Ref said:
:lmao: .....I think real raider fan cares more about the Chiefs than you think...and they probably should.....

some posters are hoping for a KC demise in a few years.....I thought I made some accurate and very good points about a division rival....sorry if it was “odd”or too long....didn’t know there were special rules in the official raider thread....sorry if I hit a nerve and said something raider fan doesn’t want to hear.....sometimes it’s good to get an outsiders (non homer) point of view...your reply was pretty much a “get out of here” response....I must have missed the email that says it has to be all puppies and silver and black rainbows to post....on a football message board you would think some challenging points of view would be welcome....my bad......... :banned:
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"Non homer" point of view. That is funny. Your entire posts was a homer POV.

 
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