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Hankmoody

Offical 2020 Las Vegas Raiders thread

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Mayowa signed with the Seahawks for $3 million 1 year. I would have liked him back at that money. 

Added another Cowboy. DT Daniel Ross. 

Side note, Aldon Smith apparently has signed with the Cowboys. 

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10 hours ago, Chadstroma said:

Mayowa signed with the Seahawks for $3 million 1 year. I would have liked him back at that money. 

Added another Cowboy. DT Daniel Ross. 

Side note, Aldon Smith apparently has signed with the Cowboys. 

Agree on Mayowa.   It’s too bad that Smith went off the rails.  He was extremely talented but I’m not sure what he could have left in the tank at this point.  

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2 hours ago, DocHolliday said:

Agree on Mayowa.   It’s too bad that Smith went off the rails.  He was extremely talented but I’m not sure what he could have left in the tank at this point.  

4 yeard off is a LONG time in football years. 

Maybe we bring back Dion now that we freed up some cap space from Hudson's contract. I think he should be had for cheaper than Mayowa. 

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On 4/1/2020 at 12:14 PM, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Thought experiment:

If somehow, in some miraculous moment kind of way, the first 10 picks in the draft are inordinately QB heavy, and improbably Okudah slips to us, do you take him at 12 without thinking?

Yes.  I just posted on Okudah's page I don't think he's as elite as everyone is saying but I'm not exactly an NFL personnel guy and I watched him with the passion of a fan and not the critical eye of an NFL scout.  I think Okudah + (____________ WR at 19 - Tee Higgins?) is better than Jeudy and whatever we see at 19 at other positions.

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17 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Great thoughts, all.

This to me the bolded above will be the most interesting thing depending on what happens in the draft.

I don't think Lamb, Jeudy, or Ruggs will be available to us at 19. Too much hype and momentum around Ruggs, and with WR needy teams like the 9ers and Denver picking behind us, one of those guys needs to be our first pick at 12.

But if a no-brainer like Okudah, Simmons, Young, or Brown (who I agree might be a must draft if there) somehow falls, I also think we absolutely need to trade up into the second round to get a viable WR1. 

I have less of a sense of the actual drop-off between these Big 3 WRs and the next tranche, but seems like waiting until the 3rd round risks not just losing out on high value picks like Jefferson, Higgins, Mims, Shenault, Aiyuk, and Pittman, but even second tier guys like DPJ and Claypool. 

In the end it is a pipe dream about guys like Okuda falling. I don't think it will happen. But I absolutely think that if we go another way at 12 than Lamb/Jeudy/Ruggs, or none of those 3 are available, trading up into the 2nd is an absolute imperative to fill the gap at the WR spot.

Maybe I just need to get better educated and comfortable that guys I've listed in other tiers can be just as good as the Big 3 consensus guys -- out of the WRs ranked behind Lamb/Jeudy/Ruggs, who do you see on a similar tier? Who do you see as potential true WR1s? Where is your cut-off line?

You said that twice, but what's wrong with using #19 on a WR?  Guys like Tee Higgins or Justin Jefferson will be available there, so just curious your thought process?

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Eli Apple deal has fallen apart.  I'm not all that upset, he's not very good.

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19 minutes ago, ICON211 said:

Eli Apple deal has fallen apart.  I'm not all that upset, he's not very good.

That explains something I saw on social media but didn't understand earlier basically like "Eli: I want more money" and "Mayock" with a video of Stephen A Smith telling security to throw someone out. 

I am not upset at all. I am actually happy. I think I would much prefer Dre Kirkpatrick. Older but much better and consistent. I would still like Worley back and then if no go on Dre, Breeland and Amukamara are still out there. I think I would prefer any of them over Eli. Get Worley and then one of those vets and I think we upgraded over Eli. 

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Demarious Randal signed 1 year. 

 

Not excited. Same kind of wasted potential type as Eli. 

Eli then him tells me we are expecting to go CB with one of those 1st rounders. 

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3 hours ago, Chadstroma said:

Demarious Randal signed 1 year. 

 

Not excited. Same kind of wasted potential type as Eli. 

Eli then him tells me we are expecting to go CB with one of those 1st rounders. 

Given a choice between the two I'd rather have Randall than Apple.  I like the potential of Isaiah Johnson.  Can't count on him as one of the starters right now, but you couldn't count on Eli Apple either.  Corner definitely an option at 12 or 19.  Some potential options there:

CJ Henderson

Trevon Diggs

Kristian Fulton

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Some extra reading refreshed my memory... I didn't realize Randall played FS with the Browns. I remember he was a CB with the Packers and knew he didn't play all that great last year but the year before. That year as a FS with the Browns he played very well. We basically swapped Joseph for Randall and payed Randall less (max 1 yr deal a bit over $3 million while Joseph is on a 2 yr $8 million deal). If he plays like he did the first year with the Browns we got an upgrade. He he plays like he did last year it is basically a price cut on the same level of play with got out of Joseph while he was here (though it did look to me like Joseph was starting to finally come into his own and grow as a player last year). Overall, seems like a smart move by Mayock. I like it better than I did at first. 

So, Randall at FS and Abram at SS- Joyner at the Nickle/slot CB/third S spot. Harris and Heath in reserve for our safety player group. 

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1 hour ago, Chadstroma said:

Some extra reading refreshed my memory... I didn't realize Randall played FS with the Browns. I remember he was a CB with the Packers and knew he didn't play all that great last year but the year before. That year as a FS with the Browns he played very well. We basically swapped Joseph for Randall and payed Randall less (max 1 yr deal a bit over $3 million while Joseph is on a 2 yr $8 million deal). If he plays like he did the first year with the Browns we got an upgrade. He he plays like he did last year it is basically a price cut on the same level of play with got out of Joseph while he was here (though it did look to me like Joseph was starting to finally come into his own and grow as a player last year). Overall, seems like a smart move by Mayock. I like it better than I did at first. 

So, Randall at FS and Abram at SS- Joyner at the Nickle/slot CB/third S spot. Harris and Heath in reserve for our safety player group. 

Harris is underrated.  I am often impressed with his play.  Another player they could draft at S that I really like is Antoine Winfield.

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7 minutes ago, ICON211 said:

Harris is underrated.  I am often impressed with his play.  Another player they could draft at S that I really like is Antoine Winfield.

Harris played extremely well when pressed. It is actually another reason I am good with the Randall signing because if he doesn't play up to his ability, Harris can come in and take the spot. 

I don't think we need to draft a S at all. CB yes, we must. LB yes, we must. I can see going to a CB/S tweener type of guy or a late rounder that Mayock likes but I wouldn't be surprised to not draft a true S at all now. 

Hasn't Antoine been retired for several years? Is this his son or just happens to have the same name (Antoine Winfield not being exactly a common name)? (I am telling you, I know nearly nothing defensively side of the ball other than the very top of the draft board) 

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

Harris played extremely well when pressed. It is actually another reason I am good with the Randall signing because if he doesn't play up to his ability, Harris can come in and take the spot. 

I don't think we need to draft a S at all. CB yes, we must. LB yes, we must. I can see going to a CB/S tweener type of guy or a late rounder that Mayock likes but I wouldn't be surprised to not draft a true S at all now. 

Hasn't Antoine been retired for several years? Is this his son or just happens to have the same name (Antoine Winfield not being exactly a common name)? (I am telling you, I know nearly nothing defensively side of the ball other than the very top of the draft board) 

Ha, yes Antoine Winfield Jr.  and I don't think they need to draft S either, but if they were so inclined he is the one I like most in the draft.

Edited by ICON211

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On 4/1/2020 at 11:18 AM, Chadstroma said:

Sure, Jeudy/Lamb are top of the heap but it is a deep and talented WR class. The drop off from another WR we can get at 19 isn't too huge. 

The drop off from Okudah to any defensive player not named Young is significant. 

If somehow Okudah falls to us at 12 we take him happily and then take our top WR on the board at 19. 

I don't think it is that much of a decision. If we are going to beat KC consistently, a top shut down CB and next best of a deep and talented group of WR will go further than a top flight WR and whatever D player we can get at 19. 

I am too lazy too look this up but it feels like all the highly hyped CBs coming out of Ohio St ultimately disappoint. Apple, Connely, Ward... I think I would proceed with caution despite the consensus. My theory is that guys at Ohio St, Bama, and Clemson are surrounded by 5 star talent so they look much better and have less of a stress test than guys surrounded by lesser talent. Just a theory... flame away.

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1 hour ago, 32 Counter Pass said:

I am too lazy too look this up but it feels like all the highly hyped CBs coming out of Ohio St ultimately disappoint. Apple, Connely, Ward... I think I would proceed with caution despite the consensus. My theory is that guys at Ohio St, Bama, and Clemson are surrounded by 5 star talent so they look much better and have less of a stress test than guys surrounded by lesser talent. Just a theory... flame away.

I think there is truth to that. I think there are tons of adjustments that you have to make for talent in the college to NFL and that is certainly one. I also think it can go the other way... meaning, a great player can get lost in the wealth of talent and not shine as much as he could. Look at Josh Jacobs. His college career besides his average per carry and his last years TD's was very nothing interesting at all. Other adjustments would be not having any talent around them to help or playing in smaller schools, mid-major conference or even Division II. Heck, even judging a player coming out of the SEC is different than Big 12. Different schemes and how they translate or do not translate into the NFL is huge. The psychology of it all- can they handle fame and money or are they a paper house that will fold on itself with any pressure. Are they smart enough to handle the NFL demands of understanding the game on that level or have they got by on athletic talent and never learned the game? 

I loved picking up on a nugget from Mayock... I think it was a press conference around the combine... that the biggest difference on a WR playing well in college and translating into the NFL was how they can play against press coverage since they often do not get much in the college level and what they do just isn't the same as what they get in the NFL and judging that gives the key. 

I have been fascinated with talent evaluation for so long with the NFL. It seems to be so much more of a hit and miss thing than any other sport. Basketball, Baseball, etc you pretty much know what you get when you draft high. Baseball may take more maturation but the high prospects usually pan out to some level. Basketball almost doesn't taken any evaluation. They ball in college then they ball in the NBA. In the NFL you can have a passionate debate about who is the better QB.... Manning or Leaf. You can some of the best players ever to be drafted in the 7th round (Brady) or a WR that some considered slow (Rice) and then Sports Illustrated tout someone the best offensive line prospect ever and be one of the biggest busts ever (Mandarich). It simply amazes me how people who know the sport, live the sport, and their entire job is the sport and how things are no where near as easy as what is the 40 and can they catch the ball? 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 4/1/2020 at 9:12 PM, Chadstroma said:

Mayowa signed with the Seahawks for $3 million 1 year. I would have liked him back at that money. 

Added another Cowboy. DT Daniel Ross. 

Side note, Aldon Smith apparently has signed with the Cowboys. 

Agree on Mayowa -- maybe it's recency bias but he looked really dependable in rotation. Not elite, but looked to have taken a step forward and both opened up opportunity for guys looping inside and off the EDGE, and was able to take advantage of others' disruption as well -- 7 sacks last year. Guy was solid in DAL and ARI, and just seemed a reliable presence. Wish him well and hope to see him continue to flourish. Nice to see him return to the team that drafted him.

On 4/2/2020 at 10:36 AM, Hankmoody said:

You said that twice, but what's wrong with using #19 on a WR?  Guys like Tee Higgins or Justin Jefferson will be available there, so just curious your thought process?

It's a totally valid point. Again, I don't have as much of a feel for how Higgins, Jefferson, or whoever you rate in the next tier of WR4 through 8 after Jeudy/Ruggs/Lamb. I also don't have a great sense of what the drop-off between those top 3 and the next tier is.

My thinking is that if Okudah/Simmons/Brown somehow fell, then BPA at 19 would potentially be also be a guy in a position of need for us, e.g. a CB like Henderson, a DL like Kinlaw, or an LB like Queen or even Murray. If Henderson somehow was there, that's a no-brainer, and I think it's defensible to want Kinlaw at #19 over a WR given the drop offs in DT vs WR in this draft.

Do you expect a guy like Higgins or Jefferson to be a first round selection? How do you rank the Top 10 WR prospects overall? I thought Higgins/Jefferson (along with the hand-full of the other second tier WRs I listed in that post), are a little interchangeable in terms of value/potential/dropoff, but are also all a risk of not being there for our third round picks. 

Hence the idea of trading up into the second. It ensures we get a crack at someone in that next WR tier who may not be as clear-cut of a WR1 candidate as the Big 3, but who all have fantastic talent that might not last until the third.

Edited by Stompin' Tom Connors
Clarity?

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Here are my top 10WRs in tiers:

1-2 Jeudy, Lamb

3 Ruggs

4-10 Shenault, Mims, Aiyuk, Duvernay, Pittman, Jefferson, Claypool

I am higher on Duvernay and lower on Higgins than most.

Ruggs has big time potential, but seems like a guy that could bust also.  I'd be hesitant to take him with a 1, but it's a lock that someone will.

As everyone has said, this WR class is ridiculously deep with guys like Higgins, Reagor, Hamler not even in the 10 I listed.

 

 

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On 4/4/2020 at 3:54 PM, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Agree on Mayowa -- maybe it's recency bias but he looked really dependable in rotation. Not elite, but looked to have taken a step forward and both opened up opportunity for guys looping inside and off the EDGE, and was able to take advantage of others' disruption as well -- 7 sacks last year. Guy was solid in DAL and ARI, and just seemed a reliable presence. Wish him well and hope to see him continue to flourish. Nice to see him return to the team that drafted him.

It's a totally valid point. Again, I don't have as much of a feel for how Higgins, Jefferson, or whoever you rate in the next tier of WR4 through 8 after Jeudy/Ruggs/Lamb. I also don't have a great sense of what the drop-off between those top 3 and the next tier is.

My thinking is that if Okudah/Simmons/Brown somehow fell, then BPA at 19 would potentially be also be a guy in a position of need for us, e.g. a CB like Henderson, a DL like Kinlaw, or an LB like Queen or even Murray. If Henderson somehow was there, that's a no-brainer, and I think it's defensible to want Kinlaw at #19 over a WR given the drop offs in DT vs WR in this draft.

Do you expect a guy like Higgins or Jefferson to be a first round selection? How do you rank the Top 10 WR prospects overall? I thought Higgins/Jefferson (along with the hand-full of the other second tier WRs I listed in that post), are a little interchangeable in terms of value/potential/dropoff, but are also all a risk of not being there for our third round picks. 

Hence the idea of trading up into the second. It ensures we get a crack at someone in that next WR tier who may not be as clear-cut of a WR1 candidate as the Big 3, but who all have fantastic talent that might not last until the third.

I do, but the 2nd half of your comment hits on a huge dichotomy here - there are only so many top WR picks that can be made.  There just aren't enough teams that can/will invest in WR that early.  Guys like Higgins, Ayuk, and Jefferson are no-brainer 1st rounders most years but they might ALL get into the 2nd if the draft falls a certain way.  One analyst has 25 WR with 1st-2nd round grades.  Now we aren't going to see 25 of the first 64 picks be WR, so there HAS to be someone that slides.  And if you know the slide is coming in the third, why pay late 1st prices?  It's like buying the $14.99 a pound filet or going over to the manager's special rack and getting a strip for $8.99 a pound.  Use that $14.99 on lobster or a bottle of wine and get both because every other day you don't want that $8 wine.

I get what you're saying and actually agree heartily that #19 could be used elsewhere, was just curious about why you seemed so set on against it.  I'd love to see a Kinlaw or Henderson at 19.  Heck I say take Kinlaw at 12 and see what falls.  I have zero fear of waiting until the 3rd for a WR but wouldn't object to a bunch of names at 19 if Mayock sees fit either.  It's a good draft to have extra picks in and this is the funnest time of the year for me (except for mock drafts, every single one of them can burn in hell).

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On 4/3/2020 at 10:03 PM, 32 Counter Pass said:

I am too lazy too look this up but it feels like all the highly hyped CBs coming out of Ohio St ultimately disappoint. Apple, Connely, Ward... I think I would proceed with caution despite the consensus. My theory is that guys at Ohio St, Bama, and Clemson are surrounded by 5 star talent so they look much better and have less of a stress test than guys surrounded by lesser talent. Just a theory... flame away.

Your theory has merit.  However one could say that practicing all year round against 5 star talent and having younger 5 star talent on the bench nipping at your heels does wonders for development.  It also could be dumb luck like all the USC WRs that seem to bust.

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What's the consensus on Gruden in these parts after two years?

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8 hours ago, BassNBrew said:

What's the consensus on Gruden in these parts after two years?

Speaking for myself, I was very excited when he came back and I have not been disappointed.  He is still a really good coach and he is the best coach by far the team has had since his original stint with the Raiders.  He also seems to work very well with Mayock.

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15 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

I do, but the 2nd half of your comment hits on a huge dichotomy here - there are only so many top WR picks that can be made.  There just aren't enough teams that can/will invest in WR that early.  Guys like Higgins, Ayuk, and Jefferson are no-brainer 1st rounders most years but they might ALL get into the 2nd if the draft falls a certain way.  One analyst has 25 WR with 1st-2nd round grades.  Now we aren't going to see 25 of the first 64 picks be WR, so there HAS to be someone that slides.  And if you know the slide is coming in the third, why pay late 1st prices?  It's like buying the $14.99 a pound filet or going over to the manager's special rack and getting a strip for $8.99 a pound.  Use that $14.99 on lobster or a bottle of wine and get both because every other day you don't want that $8 wine.

I get what you're saying and actually agree heartily that #19 could be used elsewhere, was just curious about why you seemed so set on against it.  I'd love to see a Kinlaw or Henderson at 19.  Heck I say take Kinlaw at 12 and see what falls.  I have zero fear of waiting until the 3rd for a WR but wouldn't object to a bunch of names at 19 if Mayock sees fit either.  It's a good draft to have extra picks in and this is the funnest time of the year for me (except for mock drafts, every single one of them can burn in hell).

Heck yeah.

From a 100 foot view, in terms of draft VALUE, it's easy to see how the team might be better off banging out positions early that are not as deep, and grabbing a Shenault or Pittman later.  

I'm a Jeudy-Lamb-Ruggs order guy, but really, I haven't watched much college football, so I'm not banging the table for anyone.  

Good to see you fellas.  Imma post later a bunch more draft thoughts banging around the noggin tonight after I have smoked a metric ton of cannabis.  Whether you like it or not.

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1 hour ago, massraider said:

Imma post later a bunch more draft thoughts banging around the noggin tonight after I have smoked a metric ton of cannabis.  Whether you like it or not.

:headbang:

Love the approach, and the upcoming insight.

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13 hours ago, ICON211 said:

Speaking for myself, I was very excited when he came back and I have not been disappointed.  He is still a really good coach and he is the best coach by far the team has had since his original stint with the Raiders.  He also seems to work very well with Mayock.

I’d kill for that duo running the Bears. 

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On 4/5/2020 at 6:46 PM, BassNBrew said:

What's the consensus on Gruden in these parts after two years?

Was thrilled when I heard they were bringing him in as a shot in the arm the team needed, even if they paid him an ungodly sum. And while he still has tons to prove in terms of making this team a consistent playoff threat, we're well on the way because Gruden:

  1. Changed the culture in the locker room. Gruden more than any other coach the Raiders have had since Shell in the early 90s and Gruden in 2002 has imbued the team with a purpose and drive, holding them accountable in a way that others haven't in a long, long time.
  2. Has a great football mind. Look, you don't get to be a head coach in the NFL without some degree of proving yourself. But put Gruden and his knowledge of football and scheme and simply passion for the game beside names like Lane Kiffin, Tom Cable, Hue Jackson, Dennis Allen, Tony Sparano, and even Jack Del Rio -- Gruden far outshines them in terms of game IQ and the ability to not just install a competitive system, but adapt it to player ability.
  3. Is a player's coach. I mean, a true player's coach. Shell was, but maybe lost that edge in 2006. Besides him, Madden and Flores, not sure we have had a coach that inspires his players and holds them accountable at the same time as Gruden has
  4. He -- along with Mayock -- have absolutely proven themselves. No question they are proving it with personnel, and we are on the upswing from 4-12 to 7-9. We shed cap anchors and brought in personnel to help the existing talent, infuse the team with promising young players, and put ourselves in a position to continue the trajectory.  I expect us to be a 10 win playoff team this year, and anything less than a winning season will be a disappointment -- and I don't think Gruden will have this team backslide.

TL;DR -- loved it when the announced they were bringing him in, and he's earned every penny of that $100MM since IMO.

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I saw a very cool slideshow on NFL.com ranking teams' draft capital, by adding up their picks values using the value chart.  Raiders were ranked 6th, which is great.  Considering our picks are top heavy, I think the over/under for trade downs is 2.  

 

I am really intrigued by this draft, in general.  The lack of last month info gathering means that every team has incomplete data.  Players who don't have combine/pro day numbers will probably fall in the draft.  Players whose profiles would normally have blown up--they didn't.  The quality of scouting departments, and info networks will really pay off here.  If I was running a team, I would want as many picks as possible in this draft.  In the 3rd round and on, there will be players taken who would go much higher if the circumstances had been like every other year.  Some teams will lay an egg this year, it happens every year.  But I think several teams will have huge classes, because they scooped up players other teams weren't wise to, or took chances on medical risks, who would normally have checked out.  

This isn't the year to be taking 6th round safeties that are special teams aces.  Screw that.  Swing for the fences.  

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I was originally surprised and concerned with the NFL's decision to go ahead with a fully-video-conferenced draft, but 3 weeks into this social distancing thing, and I think the ratings for the draft will be so freakin sky high because everyone is starving for sports content. 
 

oh, and the raiders have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. So, yeah, I might find time to watch ;) 

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5 hours ago, joey said:

I was originally surprised and concerned with the NFL's decision to go ahead with a fully-video-conferenced draft, but 3 weeks into this social distancing thing, and I think the ratings for the draft will be so freakin sky high because everyone is starving for sports content. 
 

oh, and the raiders have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. So, yeah, I might find time to watch ;) 

I'm interested to see how much time teams are allowed between picks, especially in the later rounds.  I would think there is a chance it would be more than normal at least for the mid and later rounds.  A couple weeks ago Schefter suggested, half jokingly, that there should be one round per night for seven days.  I would have loved this. 

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More time isn't necessary.  No one's actually at the draft anyway, they are all sequestered in their war rooms and they have a pick donkey there to take the card up.  If anything it's faster because electronic submission of the pick means the name can be on the screen for Roge to read in real time.

Of course they will find ways to milk it, they have to.  The sponsors are going to go crazy to get airtime and the public is going to go bananas being able to watch something that isn't a buffoon with a microphone.  This will be almost literally the first real news in weeks short of some kind of cure/breakthrough preventative COVID thing.

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I would be fine with the NFL extending the length of each draft pick if they used that time productively to discuss each player in detail.

ESPN barely knows what to do with their time if it isn't dedicated to Tom Brady though.

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I hope the NFL makes considerations for the clock given the logistical changes required to deal with the covid situation.  They absolutely will have flexibility in extending the clock and it not affecting viewership.  Like already mentioned, we are starving for anything that isn't covid related, or a re-run from 3+ years ago.   Although, admittedly I can watch any John Candy or Steve Martin movie over and over - am I right?!

Maybe they could institute a pause type function - where each team can pause their clock for a specific period of time to allow final trade talks to occur?  Give each team 3 to use for the full draft?  I don't know, brainstorming here a bit.   Or, maybe two teams needs to be in agreement to pause a clock, meaning that both teams are serious about making a trade work?  It won't be like past years where there is a bat-phone in each room that can be muted and all the teams powers are centrally located to make a quick decision. 

 

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2 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

More time isn't necessary.  No one's actually at the draft anyway, they are all sequestered in their war rooms and they have a pick donkey there to take the card up.  If anything it's faster because electronic submission of the pick means the name can be on the screen for Roge to read in real time.

Of course they will find ways to milk it, they have to.  The sponsors are going to go crazy to get airtime and the public is going to go bananas being able to watch something that isn't a buffoon with a microphone.  This will be almost literally the first real news in weeks short of some kind of cure/breakthrough preventative COVID thing.

I think the worry about more time is that all the team decision makers will be at separate locations and working with technology they might not all be familiar with. What do the Raiders do if Gruden or Mayock get disconnected momentarily when they are on the clock? 

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Teams won't be waiting till there's 15 seconds left to pick. We've all seen war room videos, lot of sitting around waiting to see if someone calls.  Teams will make calls early, and be ready to go.  

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4 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

I think the worry about more time is that all the team decision makers will be at separate locations and working with technology they might not all be familiar with. What do the Raiders do if Gruden or Mayock get disconnected momentarily when they are on the clock? 

Key decision-makers won't be kept apart and if there is it won't be by guys that aren't capable of handling a conference call.

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11 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

Key decision-makers won't be kept apart and if there is it won't be by guys that aren't capable of handling a conference call.

From my understanding, there is no war room and everyone is at their own homes. I could be wrong there. Also yes it’s conference calls and the conference calls with other conference calls working on trades, virtual big boards that could be getting adjusted on the fly. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was an issue or two.

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I was super stoked about Gruden coming back. Honestly the only one area that I had any concern was if he would have too much power. The only area that I am not 100% sold on Gruden is his ability to play GM and I worried Reggie wouldn't have the ability to pull him in when needed. I liked Reggie. A bit hit and miss on talent evaluation but knew how to put club friendly deals together for sure and manage the salary cap. 

Then we brought Mayock in. I have LOVED Mayock since my eyes first fell on him. I haven't gone to ESPN for draft forever which was 90% because of Mayock. I trusted his eye more than any other 'anaylst' or 'guru' guy out there. I never considered him as our GM but when it was announced LOVED it. There was no way to judge based on past work but if you know Mayock's personality then you know there is NO way that he is going to be someone's yes man. If Gruden wanted him it was because Gruden trusts him and is willing to work with him.  Stories out of last draft seem to confirm that in a few instances but the most was that Gruden wanted to trade up to take Jacobs but Mayock reigned him in and trusted his board and gut.... we took him without moving up. 

Mayock proved his ability to GM last year with the draft. I don't think I need to go over that again. 

Free Agency:

Williams- He was hobbled with a nagging injury and pressed into a #1 role which he was not intended to fill and I thought not best suited for. Assuming we get our #1 in the draft this year he will be in the role I think he will shine in and should be healthy. 

Brown- A lot of people had a lot of negative comments to say about this because of his track record and the money involved. Then even more so when he went to the right side. After last year it was clear that it was money well spent. The right side was locked down and he runs people over. 

Joyner- He did not play to the level we expected but I am not so sure that wasn't because we were asking him to play little dutch boy with our secondary being decimated. I am hoping/expecting better play out of him this year as his role is defined and he has talent around him. 

Devey- Played very well when asked, provides good depth and was brought back. 

Hankins- Solid player if not spectacular. We knew what we were getting in him and he gave it to us. 

Burfict- Suspended and that sucked. So far not brought back and after this years LB signings, I don't think that looks good for him coming back. 

Lawson- He was brought in as depth and then ended up playing a good amount of snaps. Held up somewhat decently. Brought back. 

Dwayne Harris- Brought in to be our return guy and was hurt most of the year. 

Erik Harris- Brought in as depth and played a lot of snaps and played well. Will continue to provide good depth for us. 

Good- brought in for offensive line help and did well when asked to play at G. Struggled in action at T. Brought back. 

Mauro- brought in as depth and rotation as a power end. Currently a FA and likely not brought back as they look to bring in more pass rush help. 

Glennon- Thank God we didn't need him last year. Marriota means he is gone. 

Jones- See above. Cut early. 

Riley- Cut

Crowell- Hurt. 

Marshall- Cut 

Willson- Cut

Grant- disappointing and eventually cut

Trading for AB can't be held against him. Hard to predict he would go from a handful prima donna to full on nuclear meltdown crazy. For his talent, and what it would have meant to the offense, it was worth a 3rd. 

This years FA I am high on for the most part. A little confused about Witten and O'Leary being signed but I believe in the Mayock/Gruden brain trust now to defer to them. 

 

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https://www.pewterreport.com/ledyards-2020-nfl-draft-top-20-wide-receiver-rankings/

One guys top 20 WRs.  One could make a strong argument we could trade down at some point and get two of these guys.

I'm really hoping that we get a G prospect, or two starting in the 3rd round. Taking an edge/DT/CB in that range is a lot more like picking through leftovers, I feel like.  Right now it's Gabe and Incognito.  Pretty good bet that our '21 starters are two different players. Like to get a head start. The G class is considered weak, it seems. But there's always slow OTs that can kick inside in a power system.  

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1 hour ago, massraider said:

https://www.pewterreport.com/ledyards-2020-nfl-draft-top-20-wide-receiver-rankings/

One guys top 20 WRs.  One could make a strong argument we could trade down at some point and get two of these guys.

I'm really hoping that we get a G prospect, or two starting in the 3rd round. Taking an edge/DT/CB in that range is a lot more like picking through leftovers, I feel like.  Right now it's Gabe and Incognito.  Pretty good bet that our '21 starters are two different players. Like to get a head start. The G class is considered weak, it seems. But there's always slow OTs that can kick inside in a power system.  

There is a rumor/speculation that we look to trade down from our 19th spot later in the 1st to pick up a 2nd. I think that makes sense if the draft unfolds somewhat as it is expected to. If we go with a stud WR at 12 then 19 is going to be a defender but the likely guys there at 19 may still be there a little later in the round too or at least not have that much difference from the group of guys we would like to get and could get at 19 versus later in the round. If there is a willing partner, might be a smart move. 

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1 hour ago, massraider said:

https://www.pewterreport.com/ledyards-2020-nfl-draft-top-20-wide-receiver-rankings/

One guys top 20 WRs.  One could make a strong argument we could trade down at some point and get two of these guys.

I'm really hoping that we get a G prospect, or two starting in the 3rd round. Taking an edge/DT/CB in that range is a lot more like picking through leftovers, I feel like.  Right now it's Gabe and Incognito.  Pretty good bet that our '21 starters are two different players. Like to get a head start. The G class is considered weak, it seems. But there's always slow OTs that can kick inside in a power system.  

Interdasting:

Quote

15. Antonio Gibson, Memphis (6-0, 228, 4.39)

Analysis: Gibson touched the ball 77 times in his entire career at Memphis, 71 of which came during the 2019 season, but he still scored an absurd 14 touchdowns. Easily one of the most dynamic players in the class with the ball in his hands, Gibson beat tacklers with power, violence, acceleration and elusiveness, and he did it in the open field and in tight quarters running between the tackles.

Quote

13. Chase Claypool, Notre Dame (6-4, 238, 4.42)

Analysis: I’ve heard for years that Claypool was going to blow the doors off the NFL Scouting Combine, but checking it at 6-4, 238 pounds and running 4.42 and jumping 42 inches is just absurd. The big receiver’s tape, on the other hand, is very hit-or-miss, but he’s still come a long way from the incredibly raw pass catcher we saw at Notre Dame until the 2019 season.

Quote

10. Laviska Shenault, Colorado (6-1, 227, 4.58 *may have been running on injured groin)

Analysis: Shenault and Arizona State’s Brandon Aiyuk are cut from a similar cloth and will probably be used in a similar fashion at the next level. Shenault’s 2018 tape was probably better than either player’s 2019 performance, but during this past season, Aiyuk seemed more effective with the ball in his hands and better at winning down the field.

Quote

6. Michael Pittman Jr., USC (6-4, 223, 4.52)

Analysis: What Pittman lacks in explosiveness he makes up for with terrific attention to detail and by making as few mistakes as any receiver in the class. His game is just so solid across the board, from his reliable hands to the way he works back to the ball to his elite blocking, which is rare to see from a college prospect.

Quote

5. Bryan Edwards, South Carolina (6-3, 212)

He’s not a burner, but he can really accelerate into the first few steps of his route with the speed to force corners to open up, then he knows how to win position with physicality down the field.

Edwards’ has had some of the best catches in college football the past few seasons, but a lack of opportunity kept him from being more consistently statistically dominant week-to-week. He played both sides and in both slots for South Carolina, showing the ability to beat press, work off coverage at the top of his pattern and manufacture yards after the catch as well. The right offense can do a lot with Edwards, and if he can stay healthy, polish up his release timing and become more consistent in the air, there is no reason he can’t win at all three levels of the field in the NFL.

What could affect his draft status is a broken foot he suffered in February training for the Combine. That on top of a knee injury that ended his 2019 season could cause his draft stock to slide into Day 3, especially with the lack of medical evaluation in the weeks leading up to the draft due to COVID-19.

Gimme two of the above later in the draft and focus on CB, LB and OL in rd 1. Or even QB if Gruyock deems someone worthy.

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just saw DeAndre Washington signed with KC. He never lit it up for the Raiders but I liked the kid and thought he was solid depth. But I do like Richard better since he shows a more consistent "spark", so I'm glad we kept him. What's our RB depth looking like again?

 

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On 4/6/2020 at 9:49 AM, massraider said:

Good to see you fellas.  Imma post later a bunch more draft thoughts banging around the noggin tonight after I have smoked a metric ton of cannabis.  Whether you like it or not.

I'm not a Raider thread regular, but it's good to see you back, massraider. I hope things are good on your end. 

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12 hours ago, LawFitz said:

Interdasting:

Gimme two of the above later in the draft and focus on CB, LB and OL in rd 1. Or even QB if Gruyock deems someone worthy.

We park our cars in the same garage, my friend.  The one guy you didn't mention that I liked reading about is Tyler Johnson.  Check out the chart showing contested catch %.  50/50 balls to TJ are 80/20 balls.  He ran a limited route tree, as did Lamb and a lot of others.   Is pretty much unstoppable on slants, and:

Quote

Johnson has been one of college football’s best wideouts over the last two years, posting a two-year PFF receiving grade that is by far the best and a yards per route run total (3.50) that makes him the most productive in that stretch (second is CeeDee Lamb at 3.42).

Next Gen Stats has top 5 WRs by draft metrics, and they are:

1. Lamb 2. Johnson 3. Jeudy 3. Higgins- 5. Jefferson.  

He wasn't considered an athletic freak, and didn't work out at combine. Likely he doesn't shoot up the draft, because of the incomplete evaluation, 3rd round and down seems to be his projection.  A chain moving big slot who wins most contested catches, but isn't going to break 80 yarders.  I can live with that. 3rd and 5 hasn't been fun for years with the Raiders. 

Also love Pittman and Shenault.  If we acquire a 2nd or some other decent draft capital, I'm cool if the team trades down and lets someone else take the 1st WR.  

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14 hours ago, LawFitz said:

Interdasting:

Gimme two of the above later in the draft and focus on CB, LB and OL in rd 1. Or even QB if Gruyock deems someone worthy.

This is not a bad idea, but I fear most, if not all of the guys you listed, will be gone by pick 80.  I could possibly see 15 WRs going in the first 79 picks.  That seems like a really high number, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities.  If Simmons, Okudah and Brown are gone I would take Lamb or Jeudy at 12.  I think one of the two will be there.

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Goofing around on PFF and Draft Network draft simulators.  Both with very fair trade downs.  

This one from PFF:

19LV Laviska Shenault Jr.WR Colorado

29LV Jaylon Johnson CB Utah

53LV Jonah Jackson G Ohio State

80LV Jeremy Chinn S Southern Illinois

81LV Willie Gay Jr. LB Mississippi State

91LV Devin Duvernay WR Texas

93LV Ben Bredeson G Michigan

121 LVDavion Taylor LB Colorado

159 LVDevin Asiasi TE UCLA

 

And from TDN:

18 Jordan Love QB Utah State

19 Kristian Fulton CB LSU

80 Darrell Taylor EDGE Tennessee

81 Bryan Edwards WR South Carolina

91 Akeem Davis-Gaither LB Appalachian State 

121 Tyler Johnson WR Minnesota

141 McTelvin Agim IDL Arkansas

153 Yasir Durant IOL Missouri

159 Jack Driscoll, OT Auburn

PFF algorithm very different than TDN, which is good to keep in mind, that these dudes are reallly guessing, and going off their OWN boards to determine where players go.  

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19 hours ago, massraider said:

https://www.pewterreport.com/ledyards-2020-nfl-draft-top-20-wide-receiver-rankings/

One guys top 20 WRs.  One could make a strong argument we could trade down at some point and get two of these guys.

I'm really hoping that we get a G prospect, or two starting in the 3rd round. Taking an edge/DT/CB in that range is a lot more like picking through leftovers, I feel like.  Right now it's Gabe and Incognito.  Pretty good bet that our '21 starters are two different players. Like to get a head start. The G class is considered weak, it seems. But there's always slow OTs that can kick inside in a power system.  

I think that's sound, and agree on trade-off between a higher-ranked OL than mid-barrel D, and would focus on bringing up a back-up on the right side for Incognito -- he's 36 and while I hope he plays at the same level last year, there is just that much more risk of a sharp decline. Gabe Jackson on the other side is less of a worry, we chose to keep him and he's relatively young and I think a true anchor on our line. 

I would like to see us build out depth as behind our starters, we don't have tons of proven talent. Good and Parker seemed to hold up the ends when injury hit but can't say they are our next stars in the making. 

12 hours ago, joey said:

just saw DeAndre Washington signed with KC. He never lit it up for the Raiders but I liked the kid and thought he was solid depth. But I do like Richard better since he shows a more consistent "spark", so I'm glad we kept him. What's our RB depth looking like again?

 

I like Washington and wish him well -- he seemed to progress and is a really hard runner who has a well-rounded run/receive skillset, but had such a similar skill set to Richard, who was much better in pass pro. Richard also has this knack for being able to move chains on clutch 3rd downs and while he may be older and the distance in running talent not enormous between him and Washington, simply got it done more often and more reliably. He's a trusted vet who seems to "get" Gruden's offense and operate within it better. With Jacobs, Washington just became more expendable than Richard.

Aside from it hurting to play against him twice a year in a Chiefs uniform, I think it also hurts a little to see him go to a team where he will likely be just another guy in a carousel, without the chance to get the ball enough to develop further and shine -- like he was on the Raiders. Reid has traditionally been a guy who chooses a back to lead the backfield, but I think we saw that philosophy change with him appreciating the depth he had and going with the hot hand. I bet that continues, so we won't see Washington have a shot to lead that backfield.

Either way, wish him well.

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My WR preference 

Lamb

Ruggs

Jeudy

My love for Jeudy has decreased due to his size and Ruggs speed.  The Raiders must draft a potential WR1 and cannot try to polish a project over a year or two.   Avoid the guys that have had a bunch of injuries or lack the speed, size, hands, or explosiveness to be a WR1.  There will be WR1 players available late in round 1 to the middle of round 2 but hoping for a player to fall to round 3 is a game that can’t be played.   I trust Mayock.   

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47 minutes ago, DocHolliday said:

My WR preference 

Lamb

Ruggs

Jeudy

My love for Jeudy has decreased due to his size and Ruggs speed.  The Raiders must draft a potential WR1 and cannot try to polish a project over a year or two.   Avoid the guys that have had a bunch of injuries or lack the speed, size, hands, or explosiveness to be a WR1.  There will be WR1 players available late in round 1 to the middle of round 2 but hoping for a player to fall to round 3 is a game that can’t be played.   I trust Mayock.   

I agree. If Simmons or Okdah (sp?) falls to 12 do they grab them there and hope a guy like Mims, Jefferson or Higgins is there at #19? Or are they worth taking at #19? A case can be made that a playmaker on defense could be a greater need. 

With everything going on this year, I haven't followed the draft as closely as I used to.

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Have you guys seen Allegiant Stadium at night?! Freaking awesome. 

Also, looks like the nickname Death Star is sticking. 

LOVE IT. Man... crazy to go from that old rundown baseball field over flowing with sewage to this.

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15 hours ago, Bruno2 said:

If Simmons or Okdah (sp?) falls to 12

Zero chance.

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