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Ministry of Pain

Should Jadeveon Clowney be suspended vs Green Bay? Entire Playoffs?

Should Clowney face suspension this season in the playoffs?  

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6 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

Maybe instead of suspending him they can make him wear rollerskates and no helmet.  I would be good with that.  Maybe oven mitts as well 

I'm intrigued.

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1 minute ago, Hooper31 said:

I sure miss interacting in game threads. Now, there's no point. I looked at the SEA@PHI game thread a few times and just didn't bother. This thread is more of the same. It very well may be that the tone of the threads haven't changed, but I have. 

What can we do to help?

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Just now, Hooper31 said:

Thanks. I glad there are some Philly fans that aren't trapped in glass cases of emotion. It gives me hope. 

LOL.. don't get you hopes up too high... I am a Gamecock too!  LOL 

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4 minutes ago, Birdie048 said:

I am a Philly boy from way back... And I don't think it was illegal (yes, he led with his crown), but so do 70% of tacklers.  The problem is it hit the back of Wentz's helmet.  

It was not dirty, it was not cheap.  It was bang-bang and the redirection due to the first tackler resulted in the head hit.    Fine - Sure.  Suspension - not how I see it. 

I was beginning to think an objective Philly fan was like a unicorn.  

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Just now, Hooper31 said:

I sure miss interacting in game threads. Now, there's no point. I looked at the SEA@PHI game thread a few times and just didn't bother. This thread is more of the same. It very well may be that the tone of the threads haven't changed, but I have. 

I'd like to hear more. Can I get you a cup of coffee? 

I've found the game threads mostly solid. Typically it''s the two teams fan base so like a Miami-Buffalo game you know the 15-20 folks that are gonna post and you actually can get some perspective from someone not paid by the State Run Sanction of the NFL and so that's refreshing sometimes. 

But on a national game, only game on you can get like 50-60 folks in there and it only takes one comment and it's like nitroglycerine and the explosions come. What tone is it you disagree with?

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Just now, The General said:

I'm intrigued.

I can see your mind working.  "Did Dw mean in line skates or old school ones?  On the oven mitts did he have any ideas for the design, because I was thinking Betty and Veronica from the Archie's comics." 

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1 hour ago, Dinkle Heimer said:

Watched the game live at a brewery with a dozen other people intensely observing the game.  During the live play, not one person noticed head to head contact, or had a clue that Wentz was hurt.  Only on the slow motion replay, and mainly the second one,  could you see the impact of Wentz's head going into the ground after helmet to helmet.  It warranted a flag; but happened so fast the refs missed it.  I've seen numerous other roughing plays that were more egregious missed.  I could see a minor fine; nothing more than that. 

Exactly. In the game thread it wasn't even brought up when it happened (even though people were saying there was holding on every play :lol: ).

Watching it live I did think he came in late, was surprised but glad to see no flag came out as a Hawks fan in the moment as I believe it was 3rd down and I wanted the Eagles O off the field.

Sucks he got hurt. Like Wentz a lot. 

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5 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

What can we do to help?

Say something snarky and mock me a bit? TIA. 

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1 minute ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

I can see your mind working.  "Did Dw mean in line skates or old school ones?  On the oven mitts did he have any ideas for the design, because I was thinking Betty and Veronica from the Archie's comics." 

Old school ones for sure, inline ones would just be absurd.

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4 minutes ago, Hooper31 said:

Say something snarky and mock me a bit? TIA. 

Once was enough.  I respect you far too much to carry it further.

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Deamon said:

I'm not sure it's a 'list'.  Like I don't think a ref is like "it's Tom Brady, give him that call" vs "Nah it's just Carson, let's not call it".  I just think maybe the refs are watching the head of higher profile guys a little closer.  Carson gets smoked in the head a lot without flags, it's weird. 

I do think it's called differently for different players, but I really don't think there is any conspiracy to it.

I think it's much simpler.  The larger and/or more athletic a player is, the less likely he is to get the calls.  The more old and brittle and goofy a guy is, the more likely he is to get the calls.

It's not a conscious thing.  Hits just look worse on immobile brittle statues like Philip Rivers or Tom Brady than they do on guys who are still athletic enough to run for 250+ yards every year as a QB and lower their heads into the contact like Carson Wentz.

Edited by FreeBaGeL
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2 hours ago, Warhogs said:

As a Packer fan I say yes, suspend that darn dirty player and the rest of those dirty Seattle starters.  😄

Good point. It's not going to help Philly any now,  just the Seahawks next opponent.

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Please people, they were both running in the same direction fer cryin out loud.

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46 minutes ago, Uruk-Hai said:

I don't think the Eagles are cared about as much nationally as you seem to think they are.

Anyway, carry on in your martyrdom. Seahawk fans are still #####ing about the Pittsburgh SB. 

 

You're GD right we are. What a screw job :lol:

 

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I didn't have any issue with this play.  They were both running in the same direction and both dove to make a play at about the same time.  It was unfortunate that it caused an injury but it was not dirty or malicious.   It's part of a game where large men try and hit each other. 

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Just now, The General said:

You're GD right we are. What a screw job :lol:

 

The penalty on Hasslebeck when he made a tackle after the pick was classically horrible.  Think they called it a "low block" 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Casting Couch said:

Please people, they were both running in the same direction fer cryin out loud.

So are players on horse collar tackles and those are personal fouls for crying out loud!

Right Ross?

Edited by Ministry of Pain

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8 minutes ago, Casting Couch said:

Please people, they were both running in the same direction fer cryin out loud.

So, that makes it OK to hit a QB in the back of his helmet with your helmet?

 

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Just now, efactor said:

So, that makes it OK to hit a QB in the back of his helmet with your helmet?

 

More or less essential for hitting a player in the back of his helmet.

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Just now, Ditkaless Wonders said:

More or less essential for hitting a player in the back of his helmet.

Good point

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8 minutes ago, Gally said:

I didn't have any issue with this play.  They were both running in the same direction and both dove to make a play at about the same time.  It was unfortunate that it caused an injury but it was not dirty or malicious.   It's part of a game where large men try and hit each other. 

Same here. It was a fast play and the ground magnified the force of the hit. It sucks that it knocked him out of the game. 

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11 minutes ago, efactor said:

The penalty on Hasslebeck when he made a tackle after the pick was classically horrible.  Think they called it a "low block" 

That was the most absurd bull#### I have ever seen called. Thought the Steeler guy was going to say "I'm good we don't need that penalty" :lol:

 

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5 minutes ago, The General said:

That was the most absurd bull#### I have ever seen called. Thought the Steeler guy was going to say "I'm good we don't need that penalty" :lol:

 

I've never been a "refs fixed the game" guy.  Maybe I'm just naive.  But when you see a penalty like that called, you start to question that maybe the fix is in.  You have to be looking for something to throw a flag on when you make a call like that.  

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Uruk-Hai said:

I'm curious why you think the bolded is true. Do you think games are rigged against Philly? That Goodell hates Wentz? Or that he's having a love affair with Clowney?

Based on what I read in many team threads here, pretty much everyone here thinks the NFL hates the team they root for. 

You know why it's true. It's not some conspiracy against the Eagles or any one city. It's to protect the biggest names in the league. If Brady, or Rodgers or Wilson gets knocked out like that yesterday, at the minimum it's 15 yards automatic. This is evidenced by Wilson getting hit slightly after he let the ball go and even though the defender tried to hold him up, he still got the roughing call on a 3rd and goal. 

Yet turn around again later and McCown gets shoved to the ground well after the ball is gone, no call. Because McCown is a nobody journeyman retiring again next year and Wilson is a Star. Can't touch the Star. 

But Wentz is continually not given that treatment. He's lumped into the nobodies or the Cam bracket where for some reason his size is used against him so he doesn't get calls. That guy gets lit up all the time and has the fewest roughing the passer calls of any starting QB over the last 3 years. 

Edited by Insein
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6 minutes ago, Insein said:

You know why it's true. It's not some conspiracy against the Eagles or any one city. It's to protect the biggest names in the league. If Brady, or Rodgers or Wilson gets knocked out like that yesterday, at the minimum it's 15 yards automatic. This is evidenced by Wilson getting hit slightly after he let the ball go and even though the defender tried to hold him up, he still got the roughing call on a 3rd and goal. 

Yet turn around again later and McCown gets shoved to the ground well after the ball is gone, no call. Because McCown is a nobody journeyman retiring again next year and Wilson is a Star. Can't touch the Star. 

 

Russell slid feet first twice against the 49ers last week and got drilled. No penalties. Its unfortunate for Wentz, but it wasn't dirty or intentional. Sorry Eagles fans. Better luck next time.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Dinkle Heimer said:

Russell slid feet first twice against the 49ers last week and got drilled. No penalties. Its unfortunate for Wentz, but it wasn't dirty or intentional. Sorry Eagles fans. Better luck next time.

It was dirty and it most certainly was intentional. He went with the purpose of hurting him. Maybe not knocking him out but it was completely unnecessary.

Wentz is wrapped and going to the ground. Clowney has not engaged yet.

Wentz is down and Clowney launches helmet first into the back of his head.

This is not some bang bang guess work play. He saw him going down and wanted to get another shot on him. Should have been 15 at least. If this is the regular season, he sits next week. As is, probably just a fine. 

Edited by Insein
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Just now, Dinkle Heimer said:

Russell slid feet first twice against the 49ers last week and got drilled.

He did not get "drilled" either time and was not hit in the head area either time.  Not even close to the same thing.

 

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well its an interesting topic and i am thanksfull for ministrone of pain bringing it up but i say maybe and that is what i have to say take that to the bank bromigos 

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1 hour ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:
1 hour ago, Hooper31 said:

I sure miss interacting in game threads. Now, there's no point. I looked at the SEA@PHI game thread a few times and just didn't bother. This thread is more of the same. It very well may be that the tone of the threads haven't changed, but I have. 

What can we do to help?

model railroading it will calm you down and you can do whatever you want i mean bam you want a tressel bridge over a waterfall you can do it you want a sonoran desert seene you can do it it is relaxing and will let your creative side out so win win is what i say take that to the bank brochacho

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1 minute ago, SWC said:

 i am thanksfull for ministrone of pain

LOL.

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15 minutes ago, Dinkle Heimer said:

Congrats on destructing a point I didn't make.  :lol:

Well yeah, you really did make a weak attempt to compare the two.  When you use the word "drilled", it implies a hard hit, which neither hit you refer to was and no penalty was warranted. It's in a thread talking about a cheap shot on Wentz.  If it wasn't a comparison, why bring it up?

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

More or less essential for hitting a player in the back of his helmet.

Check out the big brain on Brad! 

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, efactor said:

If it wasn't a comparison, why bring it up?

 

 

 

Because I was responding to an exaggerated narrative which is clearly debunked by rudimentary observations like the two I brought up.  If you need a better "comparison" see the link below.  

https://twitter.com/CDonnick3/status/1173320661500121090

Dupree was neither flagged or suspended for that hit. 

Edited by Dinkle Heimer

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6 minutes ago, Dinkle Heimer said:

Because I was responding to an exaggerated narrative which is clearly debunked by rudimentary observations like the two I brought up.  If you need a better "comparison" see the link below.  

https://twitter.com/CDonnick3/status/1173320661500121090

Dupree was neither flagged or suspended for that hit. 

Here's the cheapest shot on Wilson: Clay Matthews

Thought Wilson was done, maybe tore up his knee as well. Instead they came back 16 down to go to the Superbowl.

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Just now, Dinkle Heimer said:

Because I was responding to an exaggerated narrative which is clearly debunked by rudimentary observations like the two I brought up.  If you need a better "comparison" see the link below.  

https://twitter.com/CDonnick3/status/1173320661500121090

Dupree was neither flagged or suspended for that hit. 

Seriously?  You debunked nothing and the narrative wasn't exaggerated.  You tried to make a case for no penalty there comparing Wilson not drawing a flag when he got "drilled" twice in the same game to Wentz getting a cheap shot in the back of the head while going to the ground.  Except Wilson didn't get "drilled" or even hit hard.  He was basically shoved while on the ground.  

Plus there is no link

 

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3 minutes ago, The General said:

Here's the cheapest shot on Wilson: Clay Matthews

Thought Wilson was done, maybe tore up his knee as well. Instead they came back 16 down to go to the Superbowl.

Yes, that was brutal.  Still wonder about the concussion protocol on that one.  

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2 minutes ago, Dinkle Heimer said:

Yes, that was brutal.  Still wonder about the concussion protocol on that one.  

Russ has special water. He's all good.

One of the great parts of that cheap as hell hit was they caught Wilson talking about it on sideline mic. He said something like "He thought he got me but I'm good".

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6 minutes ago, The General said:

Russ has special water. He's all good.

One of the great parts of that cheap as hell hit was they caught Wilson talking about it on sideline mic. He said something like "He thought he got me but I'm good".

Ha. The miracle water.  Russ seems like a great guy but he invokes his fair share of eye rolling moments.  

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Insein said:

It was dirty and it most certainly was intentional. He went with the purpose of hurting him. Maybe not knocking him out but it was completely unnecessary.

Wentz is wrapped and going to the ground. Clowney has not engaged yet.

Wentz is down and Clowney launches helmet first into the back of his head.

This is not some bang bang guess work play. He saw him going down and wanted to get another shot on him. Should have been 15 at least. If this is the regular season, he sits next week. As is, probably just a fine. 

Extremely misleading pictures. You don't have a shot of Wentz with his knee off the ground reaching forward and Clowney already lunging. 

https://twitter.com/247KevinBoilard/status/1213947168970694661?s=20

 

 

I love armchair QBs who think it is possible to contort your body mid air while trying to make a tackle. 

Edited by SEA425
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1 minute ago, SEA425 said:

Extremely misleading pictures. You don't have a shot of Wentz with his knee off the ground reaching forward and Clowney already lunging. 

https://twitter.com/247KevinBoilard/status/1213947168970694661?s=20

 

 

I love armchair QBs who think it is possible to contort your body mid air while trying to make a tackle. 

He was wrapped and going to the ground. Clowney was 2 yards away from him. He dove in to get an intentional shot on the QB. 

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3 minutes ago, Dinkle Heimer said:

Ha. The miracle water.  Russ seems like a great guy but he invokes his fair share of eye rolling moments.  

I think you mean eye opening. WHAT AN AMAZING PLAY!    besides the superbowl pick

 

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No. 

It sucks that he got knocked out of the game, but the hit didn't look malicious or intentional.  

And Wentz has to be smarter than that and not expose himself.  Learn to slide.  You'd never see Brady, Brees, Wilson or M. Ryan dive headfirst and expose themselves to taking that kind of hit. 

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9 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

No. 

It sucks that he got knocked out of the game, but the hit didn't look malicious or intentional.  

And Wentz has to be smarter than that and not expose himself.  Learn to slide.  You'd never see Brady, Brees, Wilson or M. Ryan dive headfirst and expose themselves to taking that kind of hit. 

He wasn't diving headfirst. This goes back to no one saw the play live. He was trying to set up a screen. It was busted. He moved forward in the pocket to gain back any yards he could. Got his ankles wrapped and went down like a tree to the ground. He wasn't diving. It was a sack. How is he supposed to protect himself on a sack. 

People are ridiculous with this Wentz needs to protect himself nonsense. 

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21 minutes ago, SEA425 said:

Extremely misleading pictures. You don't have a shot of Wentz with his knee off the ground reaching forward and Clowney already lunging. 

https://twitter.com/247KevinBoilard/status/1213947168970694661?s=20

 

 

I love armchair QBs who think it is possible to contort your body mid air while trying to make a tackle. 

Thanks,,,def a cheap shot. It appears to me he intentionally hit Wentz in head.

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19 minutes ago, Insein said:

He was wrapped and going to the ground. Clowney was 2 yards away from him. He dove in to get an intentional shot on the QB.     

We are watching two different clips apparently.

He was lunging forward as a runner at that point. Clowney had already committed to the hit, turned his shoulder to him. Wentz falling to the ground lead him into the path of Clowney's helmet. Not sure what Clowney could have done at that point. The whistle had not blown, play was not over. 

 

Sucks that Wentz got hurt, but it was not malicious or intentional. 

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1 minute ago, SEA425 said:

We are watching two different clips apparently.

He was lunging forward as a runner at that point. Clowney had already committed to the hit, turned his shoulder to him. Wentz falling to the ground lead him into the path of Clowney's helmet. Not sure what Clowney could have done at that point. The whistle had not blown, play was not over. 

 

Sucks that Wentz got hurt, but it was not malicious or intentional. 

You apparently are watching some imaginary play because the clip you show clearly has Wentz being tackled, going to the ground and then Clowney diving in helmet first for a dirty hit. 

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3 minutes ago, Insein said:

You apparently are watching some imaginary play because the clip you show clearly has Wentz being tackled, going to the ground and then Clowney diving in helmet first for a dirty hit. 

Clearly shows Wentz separating from the "tackle" and lunging forward. He is a runner at that point. Clowney was already committed to the tackle. What do you want Clowney to do, levitate in mid air while he lets Wentz complete his dive? Unrealistic expectation. 

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https://youtu.be/KcXPqFlJ_OU

You can see from this angle his shoulder makes contact first to Wentz back, which is what Clowney was trying to do when he turned his shoulder. The helmet to helmet was due to Wentz and Clowney falling into each other's trajectory. 

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2 minutes ago, SEA425 said:

Clearly shows Wentz separating from the "tackle" and lunging forward. He is a runner at that point. Clowney was already committed to the tackle. What do you want Clowney to do, levitate in mid air while he lets Wentz complete his dive? Unrealistic expectation. 

How is Wentz getting away going to the ground after being tackled? He's going down. End of play. McDougal still touching him on the way down. Had Clowney come in and shoved him with his hands down, sure just a football play. He dove with the head to get an extra hit in. Dirty play.

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