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Ministry of Pain

Should Jadeveon Clowney be suspended vs Green Bay? Entire Playoffs?

Should Clowney face suspension this season in the playoffs?  

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1 minute ago, SEA425 said:

Clearly shows Wentz separating from the "tackle" and lunging forward. He is a runner at that point. Clowney was already committed to the tackle. What do you want Clowney to do, levitate in mid air while he lets Wentz complete his dive? Unrealistic expectation. 

Clearly going down and Clowney clearly goes helmet to helmet when it is totally unnecesary. Cheap, dirty intentional helmet to helmet hit. 

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Just now, Insein said:

How is Wentz getting away going to the ground after being tackled? He's going down. End of play. McDougal still touching him on the way down. Had Clowney come in and shoved him with his hands down, sure just a football play. He dove with the head to get an extra hit in. Dirty play.

 

1 minute ago, SEA425 said:

https://youtu.be/KcXPqFlJ_OU

You can see from this angle his shoulder makes contact first to Wentz back, which is what Clowney was trying to do when he turned his shoulder. The helmet to helmet was due to Wentz and Clowney falling into each other's trajectory. 

 

And if Wentz stumbles there but doesn't touch his knee down, and gets up running, Clowney would look like a fool. The play was still going, whistle had not blown. You are expecting guys to stop playing mid play just because it LOOKS like a player is going down from our perspective. That's not how the game is played or coached. You can see from the video post here, Clowney is actively turning his shoulder to Wentz and that is what hits first. He wasn't trying to spear him. 

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1 minute ago, SEA425 said:

 

 

And if Wentz stumbles there but doesn't touch his knee down, and gets up running, Clowney would look like a fool. The play was still going, whistle had not blown. You are expecting guys to stop playing mid play just because it LOOKS like a player is going down from our perspective. That's not how the game is played or coached. You can see from the video post here, Clowney is actively turning his shoulder to Wentz and that is what hits first. He wasn't trying to spear him. 

How is he going to tackle him with his head while falling to the ground if Wentz is getting away? That would look foolish.

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2 minutes ago, Bluesbomber said:

Clearly going down and Clowney clearly goes helmet to helmet when it is totally unnecesary. Cheap, dirty intentional helmet to helmet hit. 

His shoulder hits first. 

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Just now, Insein said:

How is he going to tackle him with his head while falling to the ground if Wentz is getting away? That would look foolish.

His shoulder clearly hits first: https://youtu.be/KcXPqFlJ_OU

 

But apparently you've never seen someone make a shoulder tackle. 

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Just now, SEA425 said:

His shoulder hits first. 

He leaves his feet when Wentz knee is inches from ground...cheap, dirty intentional hit to harm. Old school football. Dirty player  doing what he does. Worked well for Seattle. The probably lose this week with or without Clowney. Assuming no suspension.

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9 minutes ago, SEA425 said:

His shoulder clearly hits first: https://youtu.be/KcXPqFlJ_OU

 

But apparently you've never seen someone make a shoulder tackle. 

I've seen many people try to tackle runners with their shoulders and heads and miss completely or have a guy bounce off. Clowney knows how to wrap a QB up if he were afraid of him getting away. He led with the helmet to get a shot on him. 

I don't know why you care. Not like admitting it was dirty takes away the win. Defending it just makes you look worse. Embrace that Clowney took a calculated cheapshot, got away with it and took out our best player. Seattle wins.

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I don't  understand the uproar, other than it sucks he got injured. I was in the game thread and not one person remarked about the hit, and all of us were confused when McCown trotted out. Later they show the replay, and then Eagle fans want Clowney's head. If none of us saw it, how do you expect the refs to see it in game speed? There was no malicious or intent. You want to be pissed at someone blame Sanders for dropping the ball on a sure TD. Or the last pass to Metcalf, or the 7 sacks they gave up.

I could go on and on. Eagles left a ton of opportunities on the field.

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18 minutes ago, SEA425 said:

 

 

And if Wentz stumbles there but doesn't touch his knee down, and gets up running, Clowney would look like a fool. The play was still going, whistle had not blown. You are expecting guys to stop playing mid play just because it LOOKS like a player is going down from our perspective. That's not how the game is played or coached. You can see from the video post here, Clowney is actively turning his shoulder to Wentz and that is what hits first. He wasn't trying to spear him. 

Going to agree to disagee, wasn't watching actively while happened and no dog in fight. Only using two clips you posted. Generally prefer Sea over Phi just sad had to watch McCown once again, feel he did admirably but he is no Wentz to say the least

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5 minutes ago, Insein said:

I've seen many people try to tackle runners with their shoulders and heads and miss completely or have a guy bounce off. Clowney knows how to wrap a QB up if he were afraid of him getting away. He led with the helmet to get a shot on him. 

I don't know why you care. Not like admitting it was dirty takes away the win. Defending it just makes you look worse. Embrace that Clowney took a calculated cheapshot, got away with it and took out our best player. Seattle wins.

That's one way to look at it. He definitely was trying to hit him, no different than any defensive player would try to hit a QB in that situation. 

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3 minutes ago, seahawk 17 said:

I don't  understand the uproar, other than it sucks he got injured. I was in the game thread and not one person remarked about the hit, and all of us were confused when McCown trotted out. Later they show the replay, and then Eagle fans want Clowney's head. If none of us saw it, how do you expect the refs to see it in game speed? There was no malicious or intent. You want to be pissed at someone blame Sanders for dropping the ball on a sure TD. Or the last pass to Metcalf, or the 7 sacks they gave up.

I could go on and on. Eagles left a ton of opportunities on the field.

Because it was right out of break after the blocked FG. They were showing replays of that. You barely even saw the hit.

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2 minutes ago, SEA425 said:

That's one way to look at it. He definitely was trying to hit him, no different than any defensive player would try to hit a QB in that situation. 

Yep. Take your shot, helmet first. Hope the refs don't call it to soften up the other teams QB. Been in football forever. Now however it's a penalty. And it wasn't called. 

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16 minutes ago, SEA425 said:

His shoulder clearly hits first: https://youtu.be/KcXPqFlJ_OU

 

But apparently you've never seen someone make a shoulder tackle. 

Apparently you think saying this over and over makes your delusional take true. It was an egregious, intentionally dirty hit. Clown tilts his down down to strike Wentz in the back of the head. Should have been ejected immediately. Looking forward to karma handling it from here. Feel bad for Wentz. He's a great kid/QB. Too bad he was taken out by such a cowardly act.

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Just now, Insein said:

Yep. Take your shot, helmet first. Hope the refs don't call it to soften up the other teams QB. Been in football forever. Now however it's a penalty. And it wasn't called. 

It wasn't helmet first: https://youtu.be/KcXPqFlJ_OU he led with his shoulder. It wasn't a penalty under any rule in the NFL. If Wentz was a RB, no one would have said a word.

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1 minute ago, SF409ers said:

Apparently you think saying this over and over makes your delusional take true. It was an egregious, intentionally dirty hit. Clown tilts his down down to strike Wentz in the back of the head. Should have been ejected immediately. Looking forward to karma handling it from here. Feel bad for Wentz. He's a great kid/QB. Too bad he was taken out by such a cowardly act.

You can clearly see his shoulder hit Wentz first. I keep repeating it because people keep missing it. 

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2 minutes ago, seahawk 17 said:

I don't  understand the uproar, other than it sucks he got injured. I was in the game thread and not one person remarked about the hit, and all of us were confused when McCown trotted out. Later they show the replay, and then Eagle fans want Clowney's head. If none of us saw it, how do you expect the refs to see it in game speed? There was no malicious or intent. You want to be pissed at someone blame Sanders for dropping the ball on a sure TD. Or the last pass to Metcalf, or the 7 sacks they gave up.

I could go on and on. Eagles left a ton of opportunities on the field.

Uproar is cheap shots suck. Certain players get protected, for me Rogers is the poster child for this. Others seem to get much less protection. After watching 2 clips it appears obvious to me Clowney took a cheap dirty shot to Wentz head and took him out of game. No dog in fight other than not seeing a call on that play is silly after seeing so many phantom roughing the passer calls previously. The NFL is getting hard to watch with it's bizarre officiating and the skewed results they cause. and I much prefer Seattle to Philly. At least I used to.

 

 

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Just now, SEA425 said:

It wasn't helmet first: https://youtu.be/KcXPqFlJ_OU he led with his shoulder. It wasn't a penalty under any rule in the NFL. If Wentz was a RB, no one would have said a word.

He ducked his head down and drove it at Carson. Just stop.

And yes we know RBs don't get protection. QBs do. Hence why it is a penalty.

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Just now, Insein said:

He ducked his head down and drove it at Carson. Just stop.

And yes we know RBs don't get protection. QBs do. Hence why it is a penalty.

He actually clearly dips his shoulder down to initiate contact, helmets hitting was incidental. NFL saw it the same way both on the field and in review. 

QBs don't have protection when they are running the ball. Hence why no flag was thrown.

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It's telling that only 25% think a suspension is warranted.  It's nearly impossible to get 3 out of 4 people to agree on anything.  I suspect that if you eliminated Eagle and 49er homers it'd be  closer to 10/90.

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5 minutes ago, SEA425 said:

You can clearly see his shoulder hit Wentz first. I keep repeating it because people keep missing it. 

The only thing that is clear is that you're being intentionally obtuse. Expect nothing less though from squawkers of your ilk. 

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4 minutes ago, Dinkle Heimer said:

It's telling that only 25% think a suspension is warranted.  It's nearly impossible to get 3 out of 4 people to agree on anything.  I suspect that if you eliminated Eagle and 49er homers it'd be  closer to 10/90.

Yes because this is a purely scientific poll with banana pancakes as an option.

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1 minute ago, SF409ers said:

The only thing that is clear is that you're being intentionally obtuse. Expect nothing less though from squawkers of your ilk. 

Not at all. Think it is great you immediately start name calling. Keep it classy. 

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8 minutes ago, SF409ers said:

Par for the course... 

Go sit down honey...the adults are having a discussion.

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24 minutes ago, Dinkle Heimer said:

It's telling that only 25% think a suspension is warranted.  It's nearly impossible to get 3 out of 4 people to agree on anything.  I suspect that if you eliminated Eagle and 49er homers it'd be  closer to 10/90.

 

30 minutes ago, SEA425 said:

He actually clearly dips his shoulder down to initiate contact, helmets hitting was incidental. NFL saw it the same way both on the field and in review. 

QBs don't have protection when they are running the ball. Hence why no flag was thrown.

Good god. Talk about delusional homer takes. What next?  Gonna add to the “Clowney is a victim” narrative that he started. 
 

Blatant cheap shot on the opposing teams QB.  They fact that an incompetent officiating crew tries to justify their ineptness doesn’t make it any less disgusting. 

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1 minute ago, efactor said:

 

Good god. Talk about delusional homer takes. What next?  Gonna add to the “Clowney is a victim” narrative that he started. 
 

Blatant cheap shot on the opposing teams QB.  They fact that an incompetent officiating crew tries to justify their ineptness doesn’t make it any less disgusting. 

The alternate takes are so reactionary, it is hard to take honestly. We have clear video evidence of exactly what happened, and still people insist it was blatant, cheap, disgusting, etc etc. Under no rule is that play a penalty, clear cut. If it was a RB or WRs no one would have cared. We see hits 10x worse in games all the time. 

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25 minutes ago, Insein said:

Yes because this is a purely scientific poll with banana pancakes as an option.

Lol. 

The fact that a Seahawk homer pointed to this poll as any evidence of intelligent opinions says it all about their objectivity. Of course they accuse others of having bias takes on it. Can’t make this stuff up. 
 

 

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6 hours ago, Cjw_55106 said:

Remember when the NFL pretended they were going to flag anyone leading with the helmet, even RBs carrying the football?

Good times, good times. 

I have seen so many runs where the RB lowers his head to show the crown of his helmet to finish off a run and thought, "Sheesh, if a defensive player did that..." 

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1 minute ago, SEA425 said:

The alternate takes are so reactionary, it is hard to take honestly. We have clear video evidence of exactly what happened, and still people insist it was blatant, cheap, disgusting, etc etc. Under no rule is that play a penalty, clear cut. If it was a RB or WRs no one would have cared. We see hits 10x worse in games all the time. 

Reactionary stating it was a cheap shot?  Hardly. 

Hard to imagine hits “10 times worse” happening “all the time”.  League would be fresh out of players in no time if that were true. I would go the other way with this argument.  I see hits not one tenth as severe called in games all the time. In fact, they called a late hit on Wilson in this game where the guy tried to hold up.  Normally, I wouldn’t think much about it being a flag because that’s the NFL these days, but after missing the call on Wentz and then the lead official basically saying it wasn’t a missed call after all, it seemed pretty weak.  

 

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5 hours ago, Ministry of Pain said:

I knew the Banana Pancakes were going to make a push for 2nd. 

 

Its really the best thing going on in this thread and the obvious choice above all others.

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, efactor said:

victim

The victimhood schtick in this thread is well over quota.  🤣

Edited by Dinkle Heimer

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27 minutes ago, SEA425 said:

The alternate takes are so reactionary, it is hard to take honestly. We have clear video evidence of exactly what happened, and still people insist it was blatant, cheap, disgusting, etc etc. Under no rule is that play a penalty, clear cut. If it was a RB or WRs no one would have cared. We see hits 10x worse in games all the time. 

If Wentz didn’t get hurt, no one would even remember this play and no one would be discussing it. Similarly, if we didn’t have slow motion, it would look like most other tackles where someone finishes off a tackle before the whistle and they move on to the next play. Yeah, it’s unfortunate Wentz got hurt. But people are trying to reverse engineer the process based on the outcome to categorize and justify it being a dirty hit. 

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1 hour ago, SEA425 said:

He actually clearly dips his shoulder down to initiate contact, helmets hitting was incidental. NFL saw it the same way both on the field and in review. 

QBs don't have protection when they are running the ball. Hence why no flag was thrown.

Not sure why you fixated on his technique of hitting a guy on the ground.

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3 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

If Wentz didn’t get hurt, no one would even remember this play and no one would be discussing it. Similarly, if we didn’t have slow motion, it would look like most other tackles where someone finishes off a tackle before the whistle and they move on to the next play. Yeah, it’s unfortunate Wentz got hurt. But people are trying to reverse engineer the process based on the outcome to categorize and justify it being a dirty hit. 

Posted elsewhere that I noticed it live.. Unnecessary and, in my book, dirty.  So, when an injury results, people should discuss it.  The injury took away a lot of potential drama from that game and ended a team's season.

 

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8 minutes ago, DropKick said:

Not sure why you fixated on his technique of hitting a guy on the ground.

People are saying he lead with his helmet, some of them even saying he lead with the crown of his helmet. Neither of those are true. Also, Wentz wasn't on the ground when he initiated the tackle. 

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1 minute ago, SEA425 said:

People are saying he lead with his helmet, some of them even saying he lead with the crown of his helmet. Neither of those are true. Also, Wentz wasn't on the ground when he initiated the tackle. 

Cheap shot.

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1 hour ago, SEA425 said:

Not at all. Think it is great you immediately start name calling. Keep it classy. 

You ought to check out his work in the 49ers team thread.  Surprised he hasn't been banned by now.

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25 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

If Wentz didn’t get hurt, no one would even remember this play and no one would be discussing it.  

Well obviously but he did get hurt and it did impact the game.  

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I miss the days when a win was a win and instead of pages of people whining about every call they just accepted it and moved on....instant replay and all the camera angles is ruining the game

the hit was fine in my opinion.

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It is kind of sad that 3 out of 4 games this weekend were potentially tarnished by bad calls/missed calls.  But that's the state of the NFL now.  

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Just now, fred_1_15301 said:

It is kind of sad that 3 out of 4 games this weekend were potentially tarnished by bad calls/missed calls.  But that's the state of the NFL now.  

it's always been the state of the nfl

the state of the fans now is to complain about every potential call that goes against their team to anyone that will listen

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5 hours ago, Hooper31 said:

I sure miss interacting in game threads. Now, there's no point. I looked at the SEA@PHI game thread a few times and just didn't bother. This thread is more of the same. It very well may be that the tone of the threads haven't changed, but I have. 

What, you mean you don’t enjoy every post about how the Eagles are held, pushed, interfered with, or basically hated by every ref, Goodell, Jerry Jones, God, etc?

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i didnt see the game or watch the video of the hit but it was one of the worst plays ever take that to the bank brohans

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1 hour ago, seahawk 17 said:

I don't  understand the uproar, other than it sucks he got injured. I was in the game thread and not one person remarked about the hit, and all of us were confused when McCown trotted out. Later they show the replay, and then Eagle fans want Clowney's head. If none of us saw it, how do you expect the refs to see it in game speed? There was no malicious or intent. You want to be pissed at someone blame Sanders for dropping the ball on a sure TD. Or the last pass to Metcalf, or the 7 sacks they gave up.

I could go on and on. Eagles left a ton of opportunities on the field.

Exactly, but they need the excuse so let them cry about it. Jeez, Wentz was a runner at that point. If it was the fullback with the ball, nobody would be crying.

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17 minutes ago, G-King said:

Exactly, but they need the excuse so let them cry about it. Jeez, Wentz was a runner at that point. If it was the fullback with the ball, nobody would be crying.

If it was the fullback with the ball it would have still been a cheap and dirty hit. Maybe nobody would have cared, but it doesn't change the fact it was a cheap shot

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The hit looked a little late, but not egregiously late. It sucks that he got hurt.

I can see why people have a strong opinion either way on this. 

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1 hour ago, Biabreakable said:

Its really the best thing going on in this thread and the obvious choice above all others.

Obviously a Bill Burr reference, I'd link the 4:00 monologue but just too many dirty words. 

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Clowney took a shot.  Had he not turned to hit him with his shoulder and then head but continued in straight with his chest and wrapped him with his arms going down in a form tackle as opposed to a hit, no problem, but instead he turned his body, and intentional act, to take a shot at a guy clearly going down.  Dirty, no, probably standard stuff in the league, but it was a shot intended to intimidate.  that it injured Wentz was a risk he took.  He should maybe pay for the risk he took.  

 

As for they guy upstream claiming Rodgers is always protected maybe he can explain how Rodgers got his collar bone broken after releasing a ball while running back and away from th eline of scrimmage, had Barr take two steps, launch, land fully on him and draw no flag or have Suh stomp on his leg.

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