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gianmarco

"A Serial Liar"

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6 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

That is fine, and most people who agree with those points can't see the media bias.  But if you are on the other side on any of those watching the mainstream news can be frustrating.  

They've got a lot more good arguments on their side. That's probably pretty frustrating if you have political beliefs that differ and could be why conservative media resorts so often to ideological conjecture instead of good reporting. 

The way that science, research and higher education are all trending away from conservative policies must ramp up the frustration to even higher levels.

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Just now, roadkill1292 said:

They've got a lot more good arguments on their side. That's probably pretty frustrating if you have political beliefs that differ and could be why conservative media resorts so often to ideological conjecture instead of good reporting. 

The way that science, research and higher education are all trending away from conservative policies must ramp up the frustration to even higher levels.

The better reporting is done by the left.  But it is bias. 

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Just now, roadkill1292 said:

They've got a lot more good arguments on their side. That's probably pretty frustrating if you have political beliefs that differ and could be why conservative media resorts so often to ideological conjecture instead of good reporting. 

The way that science, research and higher education are all trending away from conservative policies must ramp up the frustration to even higher levels.

All the more reason to make the bolded harder to do/get

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10 minutes ago, msommer said:

All the more reason to make the bolded harder to do/get

Yeah, there was an interesting article in the past year or two, can't put my finger on where and by whom, which examined conservative frustration with trends in higher education and the way the voting patterns among college grads was shifting away from conservatism (which has historically done pretty well with this demographic). The article said that conservatives' next war would be the "War on Education," and while I think that's putting it a little extremely, our nation's conservatives do seem to be pretty convinced that universities are hotbeds of radical leftism and that maybe we're just a little too intent on making college more affordable and universal. 

Edited by roadkill1292

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6 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

The better reporting is done by the left.  But it is bias. 

Maybe better reporting techniques leads it to more progressive conclusions.  Sort of the same way that scientific research is more persuasive than traditional biblical teachings (to use one of the more extreme parts of conservative foundations -- that may not be very fair on my part).

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3 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

The article said that conservatives' next war would be the "War on Education," and while I think that's putting it a little extremely, our nation's conservatives do seem to be pretty convinced that universities are hotbeds of radical leftism and that maybe we're just a little too intent on making college more affordable. 

It has been going on for quite a while, and I don't think that's putting it a little extremely at all.

In a recent survey, 59% of Republicans polled believed higher education had a "negative effect on the country"

Those numbers are absolutely staggering IMO.

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3 minutes ago, Lutherman2112 said:

Also, "Death Panels" was politifact's lie of the year for 2009: https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/dec/18/politifact-lie-year-death-panels/

I don't think jon was actually saying that UHC was bad policy. But there's no question that progs and conservatives view the European systems that we're looking to emulate here through very different lenses. 

Sarah Palin was really stupid but there's no question that highly visible stupid people like her helped pave the way for the hostility towards progressivism that we now have. She was influential in her own way.

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11 minutes ago, Lutherman2112 said:

Palin's "Death Panels" was a reference to a section of the bill in which Medicare would pay physicians to talk to their patients on Medicare about end-of-life care options, living wills, advance directives, etc. And yes, she suggested decisions would be based on productivity. It was outright lying.

Here is where it all started, on Facebook natch: https://www.facebook.com/notes/sarah-palin/statement-on-the-current-health-care-debate/113851103434/

As more Americans delve into the disturbing details of the nationalized health care plan that the current administration is rushing through Congress, our collective jaw is dropping, and we’re saying not just no, but hell no!

The Democrats promise that a government health care system will reduce the cost of health care, but as the economist Thomas Sowell has pointed out, government health care will not reduce the cost; it will simply refuse to pay the cost. And who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course. The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s “death panel” so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their “level of productivity in society,” whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.

Health care by definition involves life and death decisions. Human rights and human dignity must be at the center of any health care discussion.

Rep. Michele Bachmann highlighted the Orwellian thinking of the president’s health care advisor, Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, the brother of the White House chief of staff, in a floor speech to the House of Representatives. I commend her for being a voice for the most precious members of our society, our children and our seniors.

We must step up and engage in this most crucial debate. Nationalizing our health care system is a point of no return for government interference in the lives of its citizens. If we go down this path, there will be no turning back. Ronald Reagan once wrote, “Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we’ll ever see on this earth.” Let’s stop and think and make our voices heard before it’s too late.

- Sarah Palin

Yeah this is some terrible BS. Disingenuous at best. 

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1 hour ago, Lutherman2112 said:

Palin's "Death Panels" was a reference to a section of the bill in which Medicare would pay physicians to talk to their patients on Medicare about end-of-life care options, living wills, advance directives, etc. And yes, she suggested decisions would be based on productivity. It was outright lying.

Here is where it all started, on Facebook natch: https://www.facebook.com/notes/sarah-palin/statement-on-the-current-health-care-debate/113851103434/

As more Americans delve into the disturbing details of the nationalized health care plan that the current administration is rushing through Congress, our collective jaw is dropping, and we’re saying not just no, but hell no!

The Democrats promise that a government health care system will reduce the cost of health care, but as the economist Thomas Sowell has pointed out, government health care will not reduce the cost; it will simply refuse to pay the cost. And who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course. The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s “death panel” so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their “level of productivity in society,” whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.

Health care by definition involves life and death decisions. Human rights and human dignity must be at the center of any health care discussion.

Rep. Michele Bachmann highlighted the Orwellian thinking of the president’s health care advisor, Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, the brother of the White House chief of staff, in a floor speech to the House of Representatives. I commend her for being a voice for the most precious members of our society, our children and our seniors.

We must step up and engage in this most crucial debate. Nationalizing our health care system is a point of no return for government interference in the lives of its citizens. If we go down this path, there will be no turning back. Ronald Reagan once wrote, “Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we’ll ever see on this earth.” Let’s stop and think and make our voices heard before it’s too late.

- Sarah Palin

That is just false.  That were not the death panels Palin was talking about.  There is/was a Board of Trustees which would be triggered when medical cost grew too high.  This board would recommend procedures not to be funded by government health care to cut costs.  Palin speculated that such cuts would likily target elderly and mentally ###### children such as her child for reductions in available treatments. 

Edited by jon_mx

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Just now, roadkill1292 said:

I wonder how the Swedes manage their Death Panels. Is there anything we can learn from them?

Well, there's a lot of sitting around going on, I can tell you that

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41 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

I wonder how the Swedes manage their Death Panels. Is there anything we can learn from them?

Maybe we should read “Swedish-Made Death Panels And Me (This Sort Of Thing Is My Bag, Baby)” by Austin Powers.  Might be a good start.

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46 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

I wonder how the Swedes manage their Death Panels. Is there anything we can learn from them?

They sweat the details for hours on end, then close their poors with a cold splash of reality. 

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4 hours ago, Bruce Dickinson said:

Maybe we should read “Swedish-Made Death Panels And Me (This Sort Of Thing Is My Bag, Baby)” by Austin Powers.  Might be a good start.

Soundtrack by Abba.

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19 hours ago, jon_mx said:

That is just false.  That were not the death panels Palin was talking about.  There is/was a Board of Trustees which would be triggered when medical cost grew too high.  This board would recommend procedures not to be funded by government health care to cut costs.  Palin speculated that such cuts would likily target elderly and mentally ###### children such as her child for reductions in available treatments. 

Funny, that's not the argument she posted on Facebook at the time. She was very clearly talking about the "end of life" counseling provision.

https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=116471698434

 

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15 minutes ago, apalmer said:

Funny, that's not the argument she posted on Facebook at the time. She was very clearly talking about the "end of life" counseling provision.

https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=116471698434

 

Exactly.  That was Obama speculating on what she meant and her responding to his response.  At the end she points out that is not what she originally meant when she made the statement.  

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2 hours ago, jon_mx said:

Exactly.  That was Obama speculating on what she meant and her responding to his response.  At the end she points out that is not what she originally meant when she made the statement.  

What's clear is that she's using comments from someone else to interpret Section 1233 incorrectly (or, more precisely, in a way that will support her "possible death panel" claim). She never even mentions the "Board of Trustees" provision you're raising.

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On 1/13/2020 at 10:10 AM, wikkidpissah said:

Right-wingers (very few of whom are conservative anymore) neither know or care what the liberal agenda (if there is one) is. They know what they like, the rules of their club, the sentiments which ring their bells, and anything that ain't that is the "liberal agenda". Dont matter how many shades of that (so many even we dont know) there are - there's heaven & there's hell, there's shooters and there's targets, you're in the club or trying to pound down the door to rape the cows & steal the women. nufced

dammit. Now I'm fantasizing about Heifers

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7 minutes ago, cosjobs said:

dammit. Now I'm fantasizing about Heifers

:wub:

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20 minutes ago, cosjobs said:

dammit. Now I'm fantasizing about Heifers

 

12 minutes ago, beef said:

:wub:

*lalala*

 

Love

Exciting and new

Grab a stall

We're expecting you

 

Love.

Like hay is it sweet

Let it flow

To the lowest teat

 

The LOOOOVE Barn

Soon as all of the milking's done

The Love Barn 

Rolls in the hay for everyone

 

Chew the cud of adventure

The four stomachs of true romance

Love won't hurt anyone

Dance thru flops of fun

 

MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

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On 1/12/2020 at 3:08 PM, Bruce Dickinson said:

Mirrors my experience as well.  Timestamp seems right, too.  “Rush Limbaugh Is A Big Fat Idiot” by Al Franken was early 1996 and Rush was a well-established brand by then.

ETA:  Rush had a TV show for a while in the early days of his stardom, too.  It was a great teaching tool for spotting propaganda. 
Nick Bakay had a great impression of it on some sketch show circa 1994.  "I've never let lack of knowledge of a subject keep me from having an opinion on it!"    

1994 also saw the airing of SideShow Bob Roberts.....which featured Birch Barlow an obvious Limbaugh clone. 

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